Intellect over emotions or emotions over intellect?

introvert · Nov 3, 2019

The Monk said:
Huu utulivu ndio tunautaka kwenye mjadala.
Nakuomba utuwekee hivyo vipande iwe cha kizungu au kiswahili tuvijadili.

Tunachojadiliana ni hiki, "The Controller and Auditor-General shall hold office for the fixed term of five years and shall be eligible for renewal for one term only".

Kwa lugha ya sheria unapotumia neno shall inamaana huna uhuru zaidi ya kufanya unalotakiwa na kifungu husika iwapo vifungu vingine vyote vimezingatiwa.

The Monk said:
Na ikiwa pana ulazima wa kuchaguliwa tena (reappointment) kulikua na haja ya kuweka muhula wa miaka mitano badala ya kumi kabisa?

Ni sawa na kusema CAG atadumu ofisini kwa miaka kumi kama vifungu vingine vitazingatiwa (mfano umri wa kustaafu haujafika).

Hakuna CAG Tanzania ambaye kipindi cha kwanza kilipoisha akachaguliwa mwingine. Hii ndiyo mara ya kwanza. Ni historia. Lakini haina maana kwa sababu kitu kimefanyika mara ya kwanza basi ni kosa ila inatuma ujumbe mkubwa juu ya uhuru wa CAG huyu wa sasa na wote wanaofuatia kama hili litakubalika.

Kwa hapa "kinachomfunga" Rais ni neno moja tu, shall. Hii inaweza kuwa sababu watangulizi wake hawakufanya kama alivyofanya yeye.

Ndiyo maana nimeuliza, kwa tafsiri yenu, ingetumika "may" au "shall" kwenu kusingekuwa na tofauti yoyote?

The Monk · Nov 3, 2019

introvert said:
The Controller and Auditor-General shall hold office for the fixed term of five years and shall be eligible for renewal for one term only. This is what it says.

Legally speaking, Shall be eligible just means he/she must be reappointed again.

Mawakili wasomi wawe radhi kufuja maneno yote hayo badala ya kuandika atahudumu kwa miaka kumi au must be reappointed?

Shall sio lazima asee, it's a strong intention.
Tukiweka mbali kucheza na lugha ya malkua, kwa mantiki tu, unaona kuna haja ya kutumia maneno ya mihula ya miaka mitano mitano wakati lengo ni kusema miaka kumi?

nyabhingi · Nov 3, 2019

The Monk said:
Kuna haja ya kuandika atatumikia miaka mitano? Na kwanini neno reappointment liwekwe kwenye katiba?

Kamba kuna tofauti kati ya CAG aliyepo na aliyeteuliwa ni jambo moja, kusema katiba imevunjwa ni kitu tofauti kabisa wazee.

Inaweza kujafiliwa kwa muktadha wa competence bila kuingiza uvunjwaji wa katiba.

Basi tuseme tu Assad hajafikisha miaka 65 kuachia ofisi kama katiba inavyotaka
Rais kamtoa kwa vigezo vipi kama katiba inataka CAG aendelee hadi miaka 65?

The Monk · Nov 3, 2019

nyabhingi said:
Basi tuseme tu Assad hajafikisha miaka 65 kuachia ofisi kama katiba inavyotaka
Rais kamtoa kwa vigezo vipi kama katiba inataka CAG aendelee hadi miaka 65?

Rais kamtoa kwa kigezo kwamba ametumikia kipindi chake cha kwanza cha miaka mitano kama katiba inavyoeleza.

introvert · Nov 3, 2019

The Monk said:
Mawakili wasomi wawe radhi kufuja maneno yote hayo badala ya kuandika atahudumu kwa miaka kumi au must be reappointed?

Kisheria yanatumika maneno "shall" au "may" kuonyesha ulazima wa jambo au la. Sheria kufuja maneno ndiyo order of the day.

The Monk said:
Shall sio lazima asee, it's a strong intention.

You are either not serious or you are trolling.

The Monk said:
Tukiweka mbali kucheza na lugha ya malkua, kwa mantiki tu, unsona kuna haja ya kutumia maneno ya mihula ya miaka mitano mitano wakati lengo ni kusema miaka kumi?

2+2 na 4 are one and the same.

The Monk · Nov 3, 2019

introvert said:
Kisheria yanatumika maneno "shall" au "may" kuonyesha ulazima wa jambo au la. Sheria kufuja maneno ndiyo order of the day.

You are either not serious or you are trolling.

2+2 na 4 are one and the same.

Naomba nikuulize swali rahisi tu. Kipengele gani kimevunjwa na Rais kwa kutokumteua CAG kwa muhula wa pili baada ya kumaliza miaka mitano ya awali?

Hercule Poirot · Nov 3, 2019

Kwa mtizamo wangu na uelewa wa sheria/katiba ni Shurti na si hiari ya mteuzi.

Rais humteua CAG mara moja tu, baada ya hapo anakuwa "eligible to serve further one term provided that he/she has not exceeded retirement age (65yrs).

Nyani Ngabu said:
Kuongezewa miaka 5 mingine ni shurti la kisheria au ni hiari ya mteuzi?

introvert · Nov 3, 2019

The Monk said:
Naomba nikuulize swali rahisi tu. Kipengele gani kimevunjwa na Rais kwa kutokumteua CAG kwa muhula wa pili baada ya kumaliza miaka mitano ya awali?

Narudia kuandika, Tunachojadiliana ni hiki, sheria (The Public Audit Act, 2008) inasema "The Controller and Auditor-General shall hold office for the fixed term of five years and shall be eligible for renewal for one term only".

Umeona jibu la hilo swali lako rahisi?

Hercule Poirot · Nov 3, 2019

Haja inakuwepo kwa sababu ya umri wa kuhudumu Ofisini.

Kumbuka umri ni mwisho miaka 65, endapo awamu ya kwanza inamalizika na katimiza umri huo hupaswa kustaafu. Kinyume chake, hupewa awamu ya pili kuhudumu.

The Monk said:
Huu utulivu ndio tunautaka kwenye mjadala.
Nakuomba utuwekee hivyo vipande iwe cha kizungu au kiswahili tuvijadili.

Na ikiwa pana ulazima wa kuchaguliwa tena (reappointment) kulikua na haja ya kuweka muhula wa miaka mitano badala ya kumi kabisa?

Nikimalizia kozi kwa rasi simba ntarudi kutoa maoni kuhusu shall na must endapo itahitajika.

Nyani Ngabu · Nov 3, 2019

introvert said:
The Controller and Auditor-General shall hold office for the fixed term of five years and shall be eligible for renewal for one term only. This is what it says.

Legally speaking, Shall be eligible just means he/she must be reappointed again.

I absolutely and totally disagree.

Here’s why:

If shall be eligible means he/ she must be reappointed again, then the text would have read just that, that, the CAG shall/ must be reappointed to another 5 year term. Period, end of it.

But when the word ‘eligible’ is added, it changes the whole meaning of the text.

It gives the appointing authority leeway to choose whoever he/she pleases.

Now answer this: it is a must for the CAG to serve for 10 years, then why not just make 10 instead of 5 year term?

nyabhingi · Nov 3, 2019

The Monk said:
Rais kamtoa kwa kigezo kwamba ametumikia kipindi chake cha kwanza cha miaka mitano kama katiba inavyoeleza.

Hicho kifungu kipo kwenye sheria(kama niko sahihi)
Lakini hata hiyo miaka 5 atalazimika kumuongezea miaka mingine 5 kama hajafikisha miaka 60/65 kwa mujibu wa katiba..go look it up

Hercule Poirot · Nov 3, 2019

Ikiwa ndivyo inaondoa ile dhana ya independence ya CAG. Hilo lingemlazimu mtu kutekeleza kazi kwa upendeleo ili ateuliwe kwa ngwe nyingine ya miaka 5 akiogopa kutumbuliwa na Rais.

Think please!

Nyani Ngabu said:
Shall be eligible just means he/she can be reappointed again.

But it definitely doesn’t preclude others.

Nyani Ngabu · Nov 3, 2019

Hercule Poirot said:
Ikiwa ndivyo inaondoa ile dhana ya independence ya CAG. Hilo lingemlazimu mtu kutekeleza kazi kwa upendeleo ili ateuliwe kwa ngwe nyingine ya miaka 5 akiogopa kutumbuliwa na Rais.

Think please!

Those are your assumptions.

Hercule Poirot · Nov 3, 2019

Constitution assumptions, that's why they made those binding articles.

Nyani Ngabu said:
Those are your assumptions.

nyabhingi · Nov 3, 2019

Nyani Ngabu said:
I absolutely and totally disagree.

Here’s why:

If shall be eligible means he/ she must be reappointed again, then the text would have read just that, that, the CAG shall/ must be reappointed to another 5 year term. Period, end of it.

But when the word ‘eligible’ is added, it changes the whole meaning of the text.

It gives the appointing authority leeway to choose whoever he/she pleases.

Now answer this: it is a must for the CAG to serve for 10 years, then why not just make 10 instead of 5 year term?

Can you mention the eligible "factors" intended to be met according to the section? or you mean to tell me the president can consider any factors/qualifications he pleases?like for example bed wetting is the qualification at his discretion!???
Are you trying to be funny?

The Monk · Nov 3, 2019

introvert said:
Narudia kuandika, Tunachojadiliana ni hiki, sheria (The Public Audit Act, 2008) inasema "The Controller and Auditor-General shall hold office for the fixed term of five years and shall be eligible for renewal for one term only".

Umeona jibu la hilo swali lako rahisi?

Angemsimamisha kazi kabla ya miaka mitano au angemuongezea muda wa kukaa kwenye hiyo nafasi baada ya miaka kumi, hata usingehitaji kuniambia maana ya shall kisheria, ingekua wazi katiba imevunjwa, ila hadi sasa, sioni sehem katiba imevunjwa.

Nyani Ngabu · Nov 3, 2019

Hercule Poirot said:
Constitution assumptions, that's why they made those binding articles.

Duh!

Hahahaaaaa unachekesha kweli.

Nyani Ngabu · Nov 3, 2019

nyabhingi said:
Can you mention the eligible "factors" intended to be met according to the section? or you mean to tell me the president can consider any factors/qualifications he pleases?like for example bed wetting is the qualification at his discretion!???
Are you trying to be funny?

Google them.

nyabhingi · Nov 3, 2019

Nyani Ngabu said:
Google them.

Kakojoe ukalale hii mada imekupita ukubwa
Hatudiscuss mikataba ya bad boy na death row hapa
Go hit a club

Nyani Ngabu · Nov 3, 2019

nyabhingi said:
Kakojoe ukalale hii mada imekupita ukubwa
Hatudiscuss mikataba ya bad boy na death row hapa
Go hit a club

Acha viroja. Lete hoja...

Intellect over emotions or emotions over intellect?

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