Historia inasema CIA walikuwa wakiondoa viongozi madikteta na waliweka viongozi wa kidemokrasia, zama hizi wanashindwa wapi?!

Nanye Go

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Oct 29, 2018
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Mnisaidie tafakuri hii, zama hizi hawa CIA, wanashindwa wapi, vipi na kwanini wamekuwa tofauti na huko miaka ya nyuma, tulisoma jinsi walivyokuwa wakiondoa makandokando nchi zetu hizi, juzi juzi walifanikiwa Iraq, na hata Libya, lakini Syria wanaelekea kukwama, huku kusini mwa jangwa la sahara ni kama hawajishughulishi kabisa, au hivi vilio vyetu havisikiki au havijawafikia au vimepuuzwa.

Kwanini wasifundishe vijana wa nchi hizi mbinu za kutekeleza hazima hizo wenyewe bila wao kushiriki ikiwa hawataki kuhusika au kuhusishwa.

Nchi zetu hizi sio priority zao, kwanini wamekuwa wakikosoa bila kutoa solution, binafsi ningependa hata watoe mafunzo yale kwa wazawa kuliko kuangalia mambo kwa mbali bila kusaidia kutatua.

Waliua madikteta nini kimewasibu, hadi kutokutekeleza haya tena?!
 

Countrywide

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Mar 2, 2015
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CIA gani hao waliweka viongozi wa kidemokrasia?? Hivi unajua raisi wa USA aliwahi kuomba msamaha kwa kilichotokea kwa Guetamala? Sina hakika kama unaijua Guetamala
2016 Obama aliomba radhi kwa walichokifanya Libya, na wanajutia kwa uamuzi ule wa kumuondoa Gadaffi
Karibu
 

Bowie

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Sep 17, 2016
4,031
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Mnisaidie tafakuri hii, zama hizi hawa CIA, wanashindwa wapi, vipi na kwanini wamekuwa tofauti na huko miaka ya nyuma, tulisoma jinsi walivyokuwa wakiondoa makandokando nchi zetu hizi, juzi juzi walifanikiwa Iraq, na hata Libya, lakini Syria wanaelekea kukwama, huku kusini mwa jangwa la sahara ni kama hawajishughulishi kabisa, au hivi vilio vyetu havisikiki au havijawafikia au vimepuuzwa.

Kwanini wasifundishe vijana wa nchi hizi mbinu za kutekeleza hazima hizo wenyewe bila wao kushiriki ikiwa hawataki kuhusika au kuhusishwa.

Nchi zetu hizi sio priority zao, kwanini wamekuwawakikosoa bila kutoa solution, binafsi ningependa hata watoe mafunzo yale kwa wazawa kuliko kuangalia mambo kwa mbali bila kusaidia kutatua.

Waliua madikteta nini kimewasibu, hadi kutokutekeleza haya tena?!
Nani alikuwambia CIA wanataka viongozi waliochaguliwa kidemokrasia ?
1. Mobutu CIA project baada ya kumuua Patrick Lumumba
2. Sadam hussein CIA PROJECT
3. Fidel Marcos CIA Project
4. Charles Taylor CIA Project
5. Shah wa Iran CIA Project
6. Mwaka 1973 CIA walimuua Rais Allende wa Chile aliyechaguliwa kidemokrasia na kumweka dikteta Pinochet
Hao ni.baadhi tu
 

Adilinanduguze

JF-Expert Member
Mar 11, 2014
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Msamaha kwa kipi ambacho walikuwa hawakijui ?
Msamaha ili iweje ?
Hawa washenzi hamna kitu wanachokifanya bila kujua au kujua matokeo yake, hiyo msamaha ni geresha tu
CIA gani hao waliweka viongozi wa kidemokrasia?? Hivi unajua raisi wa USA aliwahi kuomba msamaha kwa kilichotokea kwa Guetamala? Sina hakika kama unaijua Guetamala
2016 Obama aliomba radhi kwa walichokifanya Libya, na wanajutia kwa uamuzi ule wa kumuondoa Gadaffi
Karibu
 

Bowie

JF-Expert Member
Sep 17, 2016
4,031
2,000
CIA gani hao waliweka viongozi wa kidemokrasia?? Hivi unajua raisi wa USA aliwahi kuomba msamaha kwa kilichotokea kwa Guetamala? Sina hakika kama unaijua Guetamala
2016 Obama aliomba radhi kwa walichokifanya Libya, na wanajutia kwa uamuzi ule wa kumuondoa Gadaffi
Karibu
Democracy Dies in Darkness


The U.S. tried to change other countries’ governments 72 times during the Cold War

By Lindsey A. O'Rourke

December 23, 2016

[https://img]
People walk in Red Square, with St. Basil’s Cathedral seen in the background, in central Moscow. (Maxim Zmeyev/Reuters)

The CIA has concluded with “high confidence” that Russia intervened covertly during the presidential election to promote Donald Trump’s candidacy. They based this assessment on the discovery that Russian security agencies had hacked the Republican National Committee, the Democratic National Committee and the Hillary Clinton campaign — and had released selected Democratic documents to WikiLeaks to undermine Clinton’s candidacy.

[The U.S. has a long history of hacking other democracies]

If true, Russia’s actions are reminiscent of Cold War covert political warfare, with an Internet-era twist. Here are six key things my research uncovered about those efforts.

Keep Reading

What do we know about covert political warfare?

Obviously, studying covert interventions is tough. By definition, the operations are designed so that the intervening state can plausibly deny it was involved, deflecting blame onto other actors. It’s impossible to get reliable cross-national data, given how widely countries vary in their rules about government transparency and freedom of the press. Add in flourishing conspiracy theories, and it can be hard to separate historical fact from fiction.

[8 questions about Donald Trump’s decision-making in a foreign policy crisis]

To tackle these problems, I have spent the past several years investigating allegations of U.S.-backed covert regime changes during the Cold War. I’ve done so by going through relevant documents from the National Archives, National Security Archive and presidential libraries. Fortunately, the combination of the U.S. government’s declassification rules, congressional inquiries and journalistic coverage has revealed a great deal about these operations.

1. Between 1947 and 1989, the United States tried to change other nations’ governments 72 times

That’s a remarkable number. It includes 66 covert operations and six overt ones.

Of course, that doesn’t excuse Russia’s meddling in the 2016 U.S. presidential election. These 72 U.S. operations were during the Cold War — meaning that, in most cases, the Soviet Union was covertly supporting anti-U.S. forces on the other side. However, a look at these U.S. actions allows us to survey the covert activities of a major power, so we can glean insight into such interventions’ causes and consequences.

2. Most covert efforts to replace another country’s government failed

During the Cold War, for instance, 26 of the United States’ covert operations successfully brought a U.S.-backed government to power; the remaining 40 failed.

Success depended in large part on the choice of covert tactics. Not a single U.S.-backed assassination plot during this time actually killed their intended target, although two foreign leaders — South Vietnam’s Ngo Dinh Diem and the Dominican Republic’s Rafael Trujillo — were killed by foreign intermediaries without Washington’s blessing during U.S.-backed coups.

[Does ‘draining the swamp’ mean what the Kremlin thinks it means?]

Similarly, covert actions to support militant groups trying to topple a foreign regime nearly always failed. Of 36 attempts, only five overthrew their targets. Sponsoring coups was more successful: nine out of 14 attempted coups put the U.S.-backed leaders in power.

3. Meddling in foreign elections is the most successful covert tactic (as Russia may not be surprised to learn).

I found 16 cases in which Washington sought to influence foreign elections by covertly funding, advising and spreading propaganda for its preferred candidates, often doing so beyond a single election cycle. Of these, the U.S.-backed parties won their elections 75 percent of the time.

Of course, it is impossible to say whether the U.S.-supported candidates would have won their elections without the covert assistance; many were leading in the polls before the U.S. intervention. However, as the CIA’s head of the Directorate of Intelligence, Ray S. Cline once put it, the key to a successful covert regime change is “supplying just the right bit of marginal assistance in the right way at the right time.”

In an election where Clinton won the popular vote by 2.86 million but lost the electoral college, thanks to 77,744 voters in Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania, did Russia’s covert campaign give “just the right bit of marginal assistance,” thus tipping the scales to Trump by suppressing Democratic turnout?

It’s impossible to say for sure, but the numbers were certainly close. If Clinton had replicated Obama’s 2012 turnout in those three swing states, she would have won them by more than half a million votes. Even if she had been able to convert just 1 percent of these states’ Trump voters, she would have won by a combined 55,000 votes. The Clinton campaign undoubtedly had many strikes against it: high unfavorability ratings, inaccurate polling, FBI Director James B. Comey’s letter and strategic mishaps. Still, Russia’s covert campaign probably compounded these problems. Thanks to WikiLeaks’s slow trickle of hacked emails, the news cycle throughout October was flooded with embarrassing anti-Clinton stories, preventing her from building momentum after the debates.

4. Regime changes rarely work out as the intervening states expect.

A Trump presidency might not be as much of a boon for Russia as hoped or feared. Clinton warned in the third presidential debate that Putin “would rather have a puppet as president of the United States.”

However, as I show in a recent International Security article with Alexander Downes, leaders installed via regime change generally don’t act as puppets for long. Once in power, the new leaders find that acting at their foreign backers’ behest brings significant domestic opposition. They therefore tend to moderate their policies or turn against the foreign backer completely. In fact, there are already reports that the Kremlin is feeling “buyer’s remorse” over Trump’s victory, given his unpredictability.

5. Covert regime change can devastate the target countries

My research found that after a nation’s government was toppled, it was less democratic and more likely to suffer civil war, domestic instability and mass killing. At the very least, citizens lost faith in their governments.

Even if Russia didn’t make the difference in electing Trump, it successfully undermined confidence in U.S. political institutions and news media.

As historian Timothy Snyder pointed out in September, “If democratic procedures start to seem shambolic, then democratic ideas will seem questionable as well. And so America would become more like Russia, which is the general idea. If Mr. Trump wins, Russia wins. But if Mr. Trump loses and people doubt the outcome, Russia also wins.”

6. The best antidote to subterfuge is transparency.

States intervene covertly so that they don’t have to be held accountable for their actions. Amid reports that Russian hackers have been emboldened by the success of the DNC hack, exposing Moscow’s hand is the first step toward deterring future attacks against the United States and upcoming elections in Germany, France and the Netherlands. It may also be the best way to dispel disinformation and restore faith in U.S. democratic institutions at a time when 55 percent of Americans say they are troubled by Russian interference into the election,

The United States is beginning this effort. Congress has announced bipartisan investigations and Obama ordered a comprehensive report on covert foreign interference into U.S. presidential elections going back to the 2008 election.

Given how serious these allegations are, and especially considering that President-elect Trump rejects the intelligence community’s consensus conclusion, releasing these reports publicly before the inauguration could help set U.S. democracy right.
 

Nanye Go

JF-Expert Member
Oct 29, 2018
6,804
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Nani alikuwambia CIA wanataka viongozi waliochaguliwa kidemokrasia ?
1. Mobutu CIA project baada ya kumuua Patrick Lumumba
2. Sadam hussein CIA PROJECT
3. Fidel Marcos CIA Project
4. Charles Taylor CIA Project
5. Shah wa Iran CIA Project
6. Mwaka 1973 CIA walimuua Rais Allende wa Chile aliyechaguliwa kidemokrasia na kumweka dikteta Pinochet
Hao ni.baadhi tu
Lakini demokrasia zetu hizi sijui nikueleze vipi, yani hata tume kumtangaza mtu kwa shinikizo la kisiasa na uoga kupoteza vyeo vyao kwasababu wanao wateua ndio hutakiwa kuwatangaza, na watawala kutumia majeshi ya ulinzi kana zana zao binafsi za kujitwalia madaraka, wakitumia majeshi kutesa au kupoteza wapinzani wao sisi huku tunaita hiyo nayo demokrasia.
 

Retired

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Jul 22, 2016
24,890
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Mnisaidie tafakuri hii, zama hizi hawa CIA, wanashindwa wapi, vipi na kwanini wamekuwa tofauti na huko miaka ya nyuma, tulisoma jinsi walivyokuwa wakiondoa makandokando nchi zetu hizi, juzi juzi walifanikiwa Iraq, na hata Libya, lakini Syria wanaelekea kukwama, huku kusini mwa jangwa la sahara ni kama hawajishughulishi kabisa, au hivi vilio vyetu havisikiki au havijawafikia au vimepuuzwa.

Kwanini wasifundishe vijana wa nchi hizi mbinu za kutekeleza hazima hizo wenyewe bila wao kushiriki ikiwa hawataki kuhusika au kuhusishwa.

Nchi zetu hizi sio priority zao, kwanini wamekuwa wakikosoa bila kutoa solution, binafsi ningependa hata watoe mafunzo yale kwa wazawa kuliko kuangalia mambo kwa mbali bila kusaidia kutatua.

Waliua madikteta nini kimewasibu, hadi kutokutekeleza haya tena?!
New policy ni kuwa "wacha wafu wazike wafu wao"
 

Bams

JF-Expert Member
Oct 19, 2010
8,952
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CIA gani hao waliweka viongozi wa kidemokrasia?? Hivi unajua raisi wa USA aliwahi kuomba msamaha kwa kilichotokea kwa Guetamala? Sina hakika kama unaijua Guetamala
2016 Obama aliomba radhi kwa walichokifanya Libya, na wanajutia kwa uamuzi ule wa kumuondoa Gadaffi
Karibu
Na wewe umeweka uwongo hapa. Si Marekani wala Obama, hakuna aliyewahi kuomba msamaha kwa kumwondoa Gadaffi, Sadam au dikteta yeyote ule.

Alichosema ni kuwa hadhani uamuzi ule ulikuwa sahihi kwa sababu hakukuwa kumeangalia vya kutosha madhari ya mbeleni.

Ukweli ni kuwa Gadaffi, Sadam, Hosna, Slobodan, walikuwa vipngozi madikteta, na walistahili kuondosha. Kasoro kubwa iliyokuwepo ni kuwa hakukuwa na mfumo thabiti baada ya kuwaondoa hawa madikteta. Na madikteta siku zote hawajengi taasisi, kila kitu wanakishikilia mikononi mwao. Hivyo ukiwaondoa ghafla, lazima kutakuwa na madhara. Na ndiyo kilichotokea.

Lakini future za haya mataifa yaliyokaliwa na madikteta ni dhahiri kuwa nzuri. Kwa sasa uchumi wa Libya unaongoza kwa kukua duniani. Japo kuna watu walikufa, na wengine waliteswa lakini vizazi vijavyo vitafurahia maana ya uhuru.

Hata ukienda Libya leo hii, watu wana masikitiko ya kupoteza wapendwa wao wakati wa vita lakini hakuna anayejutia kuondolewa kwa Gadaffi. Maana Gadaffi aliwafanya walibya watumwa wanaolishwa na kuvishwa vizuri lakini siyo kama raia wenye haki kama alizokuwa nazo yeye na waliokuwa karibu naye. Alikuwa kama Mungu. Alifuta bunge akasema ni ubeberu. Hakutaka asikie sauti yoyote ya kuhoji chochote alichokifanya.
 

Pascal Mayalla

Platinum Member
Sep 22, 2008
36,844
2,000
Mnisaidie tafakuri hii, zama hizi hawa CIA, wanashindwa wapi, vipi na kwanini wamekuwa tofauti na huko miaka ya nyuma.

Kwanini wasifundishe vijana wa nchi hizi mbinu za kutekeleza hazima hizo wenyewe bila wao kushiriki ikiwa hawataki kuhusika au kuhusishwa.

binafsi ningependa hata watoe mafunzo yale kwa wazawa kuliko kuangalia mambo kwa mbali bila kusaidia kutatua.

Waliua madikteta nini kimewasibu, hadi kutokutekeleza haya tena?!
Kumbe watu wa aina mpo?!.
Yaani tuletewe vibaraka?!.
Wazalendo wa kweli wa taifa hili, tutakubali?.
https://www.jamiiforums.com/threads...kani-watanzania-wazalendo-tutakubali.1522727/
P
 

Nanye Go

JF-Expert Member
Oct 29, 2018
6,804
2,000
CIA gani hao waliweka viongozi wa kidemokrasia?? Hivi unajua raisi wa USA aliwahi kuomba msamaha kwa kilichotokea kwa Guetamala? Sina hakika kama unaijua Guetamala
2016 Obama aliomba radhi kwa walichokifanya Libya, na wanajutia kwa uamuzi ule wa kumuondoa Gadaffi
Karibu
Huku Guatemala si ndio hadi leo wakimbizi wanaokimbia nchi yao kwenda USA kwa malori au ?! Sasa kuna demokrasia au wao ni wakimbizi wa kiuchumi?!
 

Mbase1970

JF-Expert Member
Jun 11, 2015
6,030
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CIA gani hao waliweka viongozi wa kidemokrasia?? Hivi unajua raisi wa USA aliwahi kuomba msamaha kwa kilichotokea kwa Guetamala? Sina hakika kama unaijua Guetamala
2016 Obama aliomba radhi kwa walichokifanya Libya, na wanajutia kwa uamuzi ule wa kumuondoa Gadaffi
Karibu
Hivi ulivyousoma huu uzi unamuona alieuandika anajua chochote? alichokiandika ni kinyuma na ilivyokuwa CIA ikifanya kazi.
 

Mbase1970

JF-Expert Member
Jun 11, 2015
6,030
2,000
Huku Guatemala si ndio hadi leo wakimbizi wanaokimbia nchi yao kwenda USA kwa malori au ?! Sasa kuna demokrasia au wao ni wakimbizi wa kiuchumi?!
Hivi umekisoma alichokiandika ama unadhihirisha nilichokisema kuhusu wewe?
 

UHURU JR

JF-Expert Member
Jul 24, 2014
9,206
2,000
Na wewe umeweka uwongo hapa. Si Marekani wala Obama, hakuna aliyewahi kuomba msamaha kwa kumwondoa Gadaffi, Sadam au dikteta yeyote ule.
Alichosema ni kuwa hadhani uamuzi ule ulikuwa sahihi kwa sababu hakukuwa kumeangalia vya kutosha madhari ya mbeleni.
Ukweli ni kuwa Gadaffi, Sadam, Hosna, Slobodan, walikuwa vipngozi madikteta, na walistahili kuondosha. Kasoro kubwa iliyokuwepo ni kuwa hakukuwa na mfumo thabiti baada ya kuwaondoa hawa madikteta. Na madikteta siku zote hawajengi taasisi, kila kitu wanakishikilia mikononi mwao. Hivyo ukiwaondoa ghafla, lazima kutakuwa na madhara. Na ndiyo kilichotokea.
Lakini future za haya mataifa yaliyokaliwa na madikteta ni dhahiri kuwa nzuri. Kwa sasa uchumi wa Libya unaongoza kwa kukua duniani. Japo kuna watu walikufa, na wengine waliteswa lakini vizazi vijavyo vitafurahia maana ya uhuru.
Hata ukienda Libya leo hii, watu wana masikitiko ya kupoteza wapendwa wao wakati wa vita lakini hakuna anayejutia kuondolewa kwa Gadaffi. Maana Gadaffi aliwafanya walibya watumwa wanaolishwa na kuvishwa vizuri lakini siyo kama raia wenye haki kama alizokuwa nazo yeye na waliokuwa karibu naye. Alikuwa kama Mungu. Alifuta bunge akasema ni ubeberu. Hakutaka asikie sauti yoyote ya kuhoji chochote alichokifanya.
Kwahiyo ni afadhali walibya haya wanayoyapitia sasa kuliko Gadaffi kuendelea kuwa madarakani?
 

Nanye Go

JF-Expert Member
Oct 29, 2018
6,804
2,000
Kumbe watu wa aina mpo?!.
Yaani tuletewe vibaraka?!.
Wazalendo wa kweli wa taifa hili, tutakubali?.
https://www.jamiiforums.com/threads...kani-watanzania-wazalendo-tutakubali.1522727/
P
Binafsi nipo, maana tunaona South Afrika, maeneo yakaliwayo na wazungu hayana shida, ila kule waliko wengi hawa ndugu zetu ndiko tabu iliko.
Huku kwetu maeneo waliyojenga miundo mbinu mizuri yamekuwa ndiyo makazi na ofisi za watawala, tizama masaki, oysterbay na ikulu kubwa na ndogo zote, kwanini tusiwapende wazungu maana imeonekana wanaweza kutuongoza na kutuletea maendeleo. Misaada mikubwa yote huyia beberu, hata nchi kama marekani, uk, canada na nyingine za kuzungu ndiyo imekuwa kimbilio letu kusaka demokrasia, na hata fedha na hata hawa CIA ni mabeberu pia sioni shida wakatusaidia upande huu wa demokrasia.
 

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