Genocide denial: Rwandans take the fight beyond borders

Talkandtalk · Mar 6, 2015

jMali said:
1. kabla ya movie kutoka in 2002, Rusesabagina was awarded a medal kwa mchango wake by the Rwandan government, tena kama angehudhuria sherehe za kuadhimisha genocide angevalishwa kagame himself. Sasa wewe unaleta porojo eti he was not a hero? Tafadhali explain what was that medal for, na kwa nini yeye tu. remember movie ilikuwa hata haijatungwa hapo.
Kwa nini baada ya yeye kuanza siasa 2005 ndio suddenly mnakuja na versions nyingine za who rusesabagina was? wale watutsi waliokuwa wanahojiwa na kumsifu 2002 walikuwa wanadanganya?

Any way hiyo yakupewa medal na serikali ya Rwanda i don`t know anything abt it labda kuniondelea mashaka unaweza kupost link.
How ever ukweli unabaki palepale, i don`t see any heroism in him.
Watu walikimbilia kwenye hotel Mille Collines wakitegemea msaada wa raia wakigeni wengi waliokuwa wakiishi hotelini humo.
Rusesabagina has a duty to make sure that hotel guests ambao wengi walikuwa ni diplomats hawakutani nashida yoyote:
For the detailed story about Paul Rusesabagina read below:
Hollywood Debunked: What Really Happened Inside the Hotel RwandaÂ-|Â-Georgianne Nienaber

Talkandtalk · Mar 6, 2015

jMali said:
The issue is not whether genocide against tutsis happened. that is a fact that it happened. The issue is the number of tutsi victims as compared to hutu victims. There is a deliberate attempt to inflate the number of tutsis to mask to fact that kagame killed more hutus. The issue is the acknowledging the innocent Hutu deaths under kagame forces and taking him to task over that.
challenging genocide against tutsis numbers does not equal its denial.

OMG!!

From Jmali (a) The issue is not whether genocide against tutsis happened. that is a fact that it happened...
Kwenye thread nyingine..

From Jmali (b) Ukirudia hayo maelezo ambayo unaniulizia, utagundua nimetumia maneno "the so called genocide", kumaanisha kuwa there was none!''

What is your stand on this?? with conflicting statements like this, any one who has interest in truth can really think twice when reading your posts.

Kishimbe wa Kishimbe · Mar 6, 2015

https://vimeo.com/107867605

To accept the truth and doing reconciliation based on truth is the only long term cure to the problem!

mchambawima1 · Mar 6, 2015

jMali said:
Lets see, "Genocide against tutsis in which moderate Hutus were also killed". This is PARTLY TRUE. Interahamwe targeted all tutsis (genocide against tutsis) and also Hutus who helped tutsis. However, the term "moderate hutus" is not only misleading but also insulting to the Hutus, since it makes it look like majority of Hutus were extremists. And it has been put there deliberately to make it look like all hutus that died were killed by the interahamwe in connection to the genocide. THIS IS A LIE.
What you want us to forget is that RPA was not supported by everyone in Rwanda, it was a tutsi-rebel group fighting a legitimate government which was predominatly Hutu. The majority of people did not support the RPA, especially given the fact that they had been attacking and killing innocent people since 1990! These were invaders not liberators!
The majority of people that had been killed were killed by the RPA not the government nor the interahamwe. That is why the government of rwanda does not want Hutus to acknowledge their dead (as suggested by Victoire ingabire), since that would open the pandoras box. The number of dead Hutus exceeds the number of Tutsis and this put in doubt the whole "genocide against tutsis and moderate hutus" business. Any sane person would wonder how can interahamwes kill a greater number of their own people in search of a few tutsis.
Me and my fellow "interahamwes, fdlr, rnc, blah blah blah" as you call us, have no problem with the fact that interahamwe committed genocide against tutsis, but it is your camp that has a problem acknowleging RPA/kagame injustices against your fellow Hutus. Denying their deaths and and even when you do, grouping every Hutu that died as an interahamwe who was supposed to be killed anyway, is just evil.

cc: Ruge Opinion

haya sasa tukikuita Interahamwe revisionist hautaki! nyie bwana mshagundulika hata mlie vipi!!!

jMali · Mar 6, 2015

Talkandtalk said:
Any way hiyo yakupewa medal na serikali ya Rwanda i don`t know anything abt it labda kuniondelea mashaka unaweza kupost link.
How ever ukweli unabaki palepale, i don`t see any heroism in him.
Watu walikimbilia kwenye hotel Mille Collines wakitegemea msaada wa raia wakigeni wengi waliokuwa wakiishi hotelini humo.
Rusesabagina has a duty to make sure that hotel guests ambao wengi walikuwa ni diplomats hawakutani nashida yoyote:
For the detailed story about Paul Rusesabagina read below:
Hollywood Debunked: What Really Happened Inside the Hotel RwandaÂ-|Â-Georgianne Nienaber

Of course you wouldn't know anything about the medal! Hiki ndio kitu kinachonipa shida kujadiliana na nyinyi. Huwa mnabisha vitu ambavyo ni comon facts. Kuhusu hotel rwanda na kilchotokea mimi sikuwapo na wewe i guess hukuwapo. The only information both of us have ni kutoka third parties, rusesabagina na the people who were there, feel free kuamini info zako na mimi nitaamini za kwangu. siku njema.

jMali · Mar 6, 2015

Talkandtalk said:
OMG!!

From Jmali (a) The issue is not whether genocide against tutsis happened. that is a fact that it happened...
Kwenye thread nyingine..

From Jmali (b) Ukirudia hayo maelezo ambayo unaniulizia, utagundua nimetumia maneno "the so called genocide", kumaanisha kuwa there was none!''

What is your stand on this?? with conflicting statements like this, any one who has interest in truth can really think twice when reading your posts.

weka the full text of that "(b)" ili watu waelewe context nzima, including mjadala ulianzia wapi, sio unanyofoa nyofoa vipande to suit your arguments. zingatia "the so called" then kabla huja-paste, ielezee what it was. I was denying that "so called". Link please, thank you.

murutongore · Mar 7, 2015

jMali said:
Of course you wouldn't know anything about the medal! Hiki ndio kitu kinachonipa shida kujadiliana na nyinyi. Huwa mnabisha vitu ambavyo ni comon facts. Kuhusu hotel rwanda na kilchotokea mimi sikuwapo na wewe i guess hukuwapo. The only information both of us have ni kutoka third parties, rusesabagina na the people who were there, feel free kuamini info zako na mimi nitaamini za kwangu. siku njema.

Kama ni common facts..weka hapa hiyo link tuione...tatizo ni nini? Ukiona hii interahamwe inaandika hiyo sentensi ya mwisho ujue tayari imeshabanwa map.umbu.

jMali · Mar 7, 2015

murutongore said:
Kama ni common facts..weka hapa hiyo link tuione...tatizo ni nini? Ukiona hii interahamwe inaandika hiyo sentensi ya mwisho ujue tayari imeshabanwa map.umbu.

basi sawa tufanye hivyo.

josam · Mar 7, 2015

Bongolander said:
Jmali there is a big point here. I think i have been saying this all along, this is why i am not happy with the disrespect to the tutsis who were killed.

Those who question whether Tutsis were killed or not, must be sick or ------. I do not think that there is a debate about that, at least here in Tanzania.

But the main problem is that there are people who are trying to have us believe that Hutus were not killed, and even those who admit that they were killed, are not having remorse at all and say it is good that they got killed. Hiyo ni akili sawa na ya Bagosora, ndio maana nasema muuaji ni muuaji tu. There has to be a way to bring to the book those who killed hutus during genocide.

Interhamwes killed hutus too, but they are only being punished for killing Tutsis, not for killing fellow Hutus, this is sick.

Agree100%!!!!

mchambawima1 · Mar 7, 2015

jMali said:
basi sawa tufanye hivyo.

basi tufanye hivyo? Ok, kwa kifupi haurudi tena ku comment kwenye hii post? umeshakinukisha... basi itakuwa vizuri uachie ukumbi wanaoweza kuongea kwa facts na sio uzushi! kajaribu zile post nyingine ila ni sharti uongee facts lasivyo a huko kwingine tutakufwata juu kwa juu Interahamwe we...

josam · Mar 7, 2015

jMali said:
Lets see, "Genocide against tutsis in which moderate Hutus were also killed". This is PARTLY TRUE. Interahamwe targeted all tutsis (genocide against tutsis) and also Hutus who helped tutsis. However, the term "moderate hutus" is not only misleading but also insulting to the Hutus, since it makes it look like majority of Hutus were extremists. And it has been put there deliberately to make it look like all hutus that died were killed by the interahamwe in connection to the genocide. THIS IS A LIE.
What you want us to forget is that RPA was not supported by everyone in Rwanda, it was a tutsi-rebel group fighting a legitimate government which was predominatly Hutu. The majority of people did not support the RPA, especially given the fact that they had been attacking and killing innocent people since 1990! These were invaders not liberators!
The majority of people that had been killed were killed by the RPA not the government nor the interahamwe. That is why the government of rwanda does not want Hutus to acknowledge their dead (as suggested by Victoire ingabire), since that would open the pandoras box. The number of dead Hutus exceeds the number of Tutsis and this put in doubt the whole "genocide against tutsis and moderate hutus" business. Any sane person would wonder how can interahamwes kill a greater number of their own people in search of a few tutsis.
Me and my fellow "interahamwes, fdlr, rnc, blah blah blah" as you call us, have no problem with the fact that interahamwe committed genocide against tutsis, but it is your camp that has a problem acknowleging RPA/kagame injustices against your fellow Hutus. Denying their deaths and and even when you do, grouping every Hutu that died as an interahamwe who was supposed to be killed anyway, is just evil.

cc: Ruge Opinion

100% AGREE with JMALI!!!

mchambawima1 · Mar 7, 2015

josam said:
100% AGREE with JMALI!!!

good for you!!!

Bongolander · Mar 7, 2015

Talkandtalk said:
Bongolander, lets put politics aside natuangalie ukweli..
1.Paul Rusesabagina was a hotel manager alikuwa mfanyakazi, hivi alikuwa na uwezo upi wa kuzuia Interahamwe kuingia hotelini kuua watu waliokuwa wamekimbilia huko?
Huyu alikuwa raia wakawaida tu labda ukisema the fact that he did not participate into killings makes him a hero.
Tunachosema, he was not a hero as it is portrayed by himself.
Kuna raia wengi tu wakawaida wa Kihutu ambao walifanya kazi kubwa sana zaidi yake hawa wapo na baadhi wamepewa shukrani na familia zilizo survive pia wengine wamepewa medals na serikali.
Rusesabagina alitumia popularity ya movie kujiimarisha kisiasa.

Now you are talking mkuu. This is the point i am always making. Genocide inafanywa ni mtaji wa kisiasa, it has become a highly politicized thing to the level where it is sickening.

Ukweli kuhusu Rusesabagina wanao waliokuwa Hotelini. Kinachokera ni kuwa kuna baadhi ya watu wanajifanya kuwa wao walikuwepo Hotelini na kusema Paul haukuokoa watu. Lakini ntatapika kama Paul anaanza kutumia kisingizo cha kuwaokoa watu kama mtaji wa kuingia kwenye siasa.

Labda niseme ukweli, (Murutongore ameweka hili vizuri) ninachojua kuhusu Paul ni kile kilichooneshwa kwenye Hotel Rwanda, Hollywood as usual is very good at dramatizing things and creating "heroes". So my view on this is the one that is built by holiwood.

Kwa hiyo ukweli wa kilichotokea Hotelini ni kile kinachosemwa na wale waliokuwa hotelini, sio waliokuwa wanapigana kutoka msituni. Trouble is waliokuwa msituni ndio wanaongea kana kwamba wao ndio walikuwa hotelini. I really hate this...i call it dancing on graves of genocide victims.

Talkandtalk · Mar 7, 2015

jMali said:
Of course you wouldn't know anything about the medal! Hiki ndio kitu kinachonipa shida kujadiliana na nyinyi. Huwa mnabisha vitu ambavyo ni comon facts. Kuhusu hotel rwanda na kilchotokea mimi sikuwapo na wewe i guess hukuwapo. The only information both of us have ni kutoka third parties, rusesabagina na the people who were there, feel free kuamini info zako na mimi nitaamini za kwangu. siku njema.

Kwenye list ya medals alizopewa Rusesabagina sijaona medal kutoka serikali ya Rwanda, though you insist it is a common fact weka link kwa faida ya wengine nadhani hii medal hakupewa in secrecy.

mchambawima1 · Mar 7, 2015

Bongolander said:
Now you are talking mkuu. This is the point i am always making. Genocide inafanywa ni mtaji wa kisiasa, it has become a highly politicized thing to the level where it is sickening.

Ukweli kuhusu Rusesabagina wanao waliokuwa Hotelini. Kinachokera ni kuwa kuna baadhi ya watu wanajifanya kuwa wao walikuwepo Hotelini na kusema Paul haukuokoa watu. Lakini ntatapika kama Paul anaanza kutumia kisingizo cha kuwaokoa watu kama mtaji wa kuingia kwenye siasa.

Labda niseme ukweli, (Murutongore ameweka hili vizuri) ninachojua kuhusu Paul ni kile kilichooneshwa kwenye Hotel Rwanda, Hollywood as usual is very good at dramatizing things and creating "heroes". So my view on this is the one that is built by holiwood.

Kwa hiyo ukweli wa kilichotokea Hotelini ni kile kinachosemwa na wale waliokuwa hotelini, sio waliokuwa wanapigana kutoka msituni. Trouble is waliokuwa msituni ndio wanaongea kana kwamba wao ndio walikuwa hotelini. I really hate this...i call it dancing on graves of genocide victims.

hapana! walio kuwa hotelini ndio wanaongea, hebu tazama hapa Hollywood Debunked: What Really Happened Inside the Hotel RwandaÂ-|Â-Georgianne Nienaber au ununue kitabu kilicho andikwa na walio kuwemo hotelini ndio utagundua jamaa alivyouza mbuzi ndani ya gunia.

jMali · Mar 7, 2015

Talkandtalk said:
Kwenye list ya medals alizopewa Rusesabagina sijaona medal kutoka serikali ya Rwanda, though you insist it is a common fact weka link kwa faida ya wengine nadhani hii medal hakupewa in secrecy.

Nilishasema of course "hautaijua", kila siku huwa naweka links leo sitaki, tufanye ninadanganya..., rusesabagina was not awarded any medal in 2002 in absentia, was not congratulated by your gov in 2005, there are all lies. tufanye hivyo and let's move on.

jMali · Mar 7, 2015

mchambawima1 said:
basi tufanye hivyo? Ok, kwa kifupi haurudi tena ku comment kwenye hii post? umeshakinukisha... basi itakuwa vizuri uachie ukumbi wanaoweza kuongea kwa facts na sio uzushi! kajaribu zile post nyingine ila ni sharti uongee facts lasivyo a huko kwingine tutakufwata juu kwa juu Interahamwe we...

mijadala kila siku inaishia na nyie na mkishafikia mwisho huwa mnaishia kwa matusi na confusion juu ya confusion, i can't waste my time. Huwa nafanyaga mmeshinda tu. After all kila mtu anaweza kuanza kusoma mjadala from start na kuamua mwenyewe nani kati yangu na nyie anasema ukweli.

jMali · Mar 7, 2015

mchambawima1 said:
hapana! walio kuwa hotelini ndio wanaongea, hebu tazama hapa Hollywood Debunked: What Really Happened Inside the Hotel RwandaÂ-|Â-Georgianne Nienaber au ununue kitabu kilicho andikwa na walio kuwemo hotelini ndio utagundua jamaa alivyouza mbuzi ndani ya gunia.

Hao ni wale niliowaeleza: a) walioko rwanda ambao wamelazimishwa b)walioko nje ya rwanda ambao wana familia zao rwanda.
Hollywood pamoja na kutengeneza movies, hawawezi kutengeneza movie based on a true story bila kujiridhisha kama vile wanatengeneza bongo muvi.
Huyu hapa ni director:

"In May 2006, Terry George, director of Hotel Rwanda, wrote in the Washington Post in defense of Rusesabagina, saying '' I traveled to Brussels and Rwanda, and I met survivors from his hotel, some of whom still worked there. No one contradicted his story…Rwandan expatriates gave testimony to the veracity of the film, as did people who had been in the hotel and who tearfully acknowledged Rusesabagina's role.'' George went on to detail a meeting he had with Kagame himself in May 2005, where they (along with most of the Rwandan parliament) watched the film together. Kagame praised the film, while all the feelings of hatred and venom that Kagame felt towards Rusesabagina later, were seemingly non-existent. "
source: Paul Rusesabagina

Haya na Director naye kumbe aliangalia movie akiwa na kagame himself tena bungeni pamoja na wabunge wengine! Huyu director naye ni interahamwe kama jmali mpaka adanganye kiasi hiki. Ila hamna tabu feel free kudai kuwa haya yote ni uongo.

PS: majibu yote kuhusu hivyo vitabu feki rusesabagina alishaandika hapa: Rusesabagina responds to Rwanda government book on ‘Hotel Rwanda' | The EUX.TV Blog

cc: Bongolander murutongore

jMali · Mar 7, 2015

W. J. Malecela said:
- By the way leo nilipata bahati ya kukutana na Bwana Paul Rusesabagina for atleast 1 hour and a half, it was a great experience kukutana na huyu great hero, very humble man na for sure a very intelligent man,

- Amenisikitisha sana na habari ya jinsi nyumba yake alipokuwa akiishi Belgium, ilivyovamiwa na "watu" na kuharibu kila kitu ndani yake, inatia uchungu sana, lakini amenipa moyo sana kwa jinsi asivyoogopa na sasa amehamia US. Nimemuomba sana apitie pitie hapa maana anajua kiswahili chote, akasema atajaribu sana siku za karibuni, sasa hivi anashugulika na charity works.

Ahsante.

William. (Community Organizer).

......

mchambawima1 · Mar 7, 2015

jMali said:
Hao ni wale niliowaeleza: a) walioko rwanda ambao wamelazimishwa b)walioko nje ya rwanda ambao wana familia zao rwanda.
Hollywood pamoja na kutengeneza movies, hawawezi kutengeneza movie based on a true story bila kujiridhisha kama vile wanatengeneza bongo muvi.
Huyu hapa ni director:

"In May 2006, Terry George, director of Hotel Rwanda, wrote in the Washington Post in defense of Rusesabagina, saying '' I traveled to Brussels and Rwanda, and I met survivors from his hotel, some of whom still worked there. No one contradicted his story…Rwandan expatriates gave testimony to the veracity of the film, as did people who had been in the hotel and who tearfully acknowledged Rusesabagina's role.'' George went on to detail a meeting he had with Kagame himself in May 2005, where they (along with most of the Rwandan parliament) watched the film together. Kagame praised the film, while all the feelings of hatred and venom that Kagame felt towards Rusesabagina later, were seemingly non-existent. "
source: Paul Rusesabagina

Haya na Director naye kumbe aliangalia movie akiwa na kagame himself tena bungeni pamoja na wabunge wengine! Huyu director naye ni interahamwe kama jmali mpaka adanganye kiasi hiki. Ila hamna tabu feel free kudai kuwa haya yote ni uongo.

cc: Bongolander murutongore

kwa hiyo source ni Rusesabagina? lol... Huwezi kuwekahabari inayoleta madai kuhusu marekani halafu ukaficha kuwa imeandikwa na Northkorea.
Matokeo yake tutapoteza muda kusahihisha "makosa" kumbe mwandishihakukosea alikuwa anajua anafanya nini.
Wewe kwa nini unakwepa kuweka link ya huko ulikoitoa?
kweli jMali wee ni mtu wa ajabu sana, sasa ulitegemea Rusesabagina na jamaa waliye gawana mshiko wasemeje?

Genocide denial: Rwandans take the fight beyond borders

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