Cost comparison SGR Kenya vs SGR Tanzania

Nature meets technology, only in Kenya.
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Mr. MTUI said:
Unnecessary elevation to justify wizi
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Unaruka ruka na kila Aina ya sababu.... Hii phase iko ndani ya rift valley na lazima wa maintain elevation ya minimum 1% (unlike Tz 2%) ....

Alafu hio point yako iko contradictory, " unnecessary elevation to justify wizi"
Kujenga madaraja ni very expensive Kwa rail construction.... On the other hand Wizi yanamaanisha mtu anachukua hela na kujenga kitu ambacho hakiambatani ya hela alizopewa...

Kwahivyo ni uchague moja, either ni unnecessary costly ellavation au ni wizi , you can't have both!
 
I can see the empty heads that used to grace the Dar vs Nairobi thread are now invading this thread. Baridi imezidi kule. Kenyans are like rain - when they are present, people complain, when they leave, people complain, when they leave for a very long time, people have to leave the comfort of their homes and seek them.😅😅😅😅😅
 
NairobiWalker said:
I can see the empty heads that used to grace the Dar vs Nairobi thread are now invading this thread. Baridi imezidi kule. Kenyans are like rain - when they are present, people complain, when they leave, people complain, when they leave for a very long time, people have to leave the comfort of their homes and seek them.
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Kujaaa
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thisdayes said:
Uhuru is a sell out n your SGR deal is a scum! The fact that a world class bank with years of experience in business of lending imekubali kutoa pesa ukae ukijua kuwa numbers zina add up. Commercial banks hazitoi pesa kwa kuangalia collateral au maslahi ya kisiasa kama mchina anavyo fanya kupitia mgongo wa exim bank yake, wana angalia (principles of lending) mradi wenyewe. Wataalamu wamekaa London wamefanya mahesabu wakiwa informed wakaona watapata pesa yao wakaamua kutoa mkopo wewe umekaa hapo Kariobangi huna ata ka microfinance unasema mradi haulipi!!!
Kama SGR yenu inalipa kwanini kipindi hiki mchina anawazingua msitafute mkopo sehemu nyingine!! Hamna bank itaweka pesa kwenye mradi wa hovyo kama SGR yenu. Tutawapa shule ya bure ngoja mradi uanze kazi, mtamchukia Uhuru.

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How do you lie to yourself that much that a commercial bank is better than development bank of a billateral deal. If Kenya gets any issues we just renegotiate and payment period is extended. Then a development exim bank gives 5 to 10 years grace period to start things up. I would not be suprised if TZ has already started paying the loan on a railway that hasn't finished construction. Commercial banks if you default you do refinancing meaning take another loan to pay that other loan..

Mko pabaya kushinda Kenya... mlianzia na kuimba pesa za ndani sasa mnasema loan ya commercial is very good.. mwishowe mtajua hizi shida mnachekelea Kenya zenu zitakua mbovu zaidi..
Hamna cargo na passengers, Dar inabaki na cargo na middle-class, Kenya population and cargo use ziko around Nairobi and past it untill Uganda. Losses are coming, shida ni hamtambiwa na serekali inayo ficha ukweli wa mambo.
Swali ni hio loan unasema, can you list its features here? Payment period, grace period, interest rate, amount and cost of acquiring it? if Tz govt actually shares such info.
 
Geza Ulole said:
N u r proud of that?
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Its not our best moment but atleast we tried to balance between Conservation and development.. When you get closer to CBD in Nairobi land and property get very expensive, 1 acer could cost you as much as between $2million to $6 Million.... The bridge through NNP was the cheapest and least impactive option, with the lowest yearly maintanance cost...

The foot print of each of those pillars in terms of sq meters x number of bridges is about 4,046 Square Meters which is about 0.0040468564 Square Kilometers while The whole of NNP is 117.21 km2 So on the ground interms of physical impact, The over 200 bridge pillars crossing the NNP is less than 1% of the totals space....


But those bridges and the compensation paid to Kenya Wildlife Service for environmental damage was not cheap, but if the SGR had chose to completely avoid NNP, the cost of the SGR going through Nairobi would have been close to a billion.

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Route 3,4 (In red and light blue) were chosen as the best option due to lower maintenance cost (when the line begins operation) and overall lower capital cost..


Route Option 1 would have run right at the edge of the border of the National park but would have also required an underground tunnel, Also the route would have required the greatest maintenance cost which was estimated would have been $2 million more than all the other options.... For that section between Nairobi Rail station Up to ng'ong . The line would have also have to pass throught ngong forest which is much smaller than NNP

From the official EISA report
Route Option 1: Nairobi South Station-Langata-Kibera-Dagoretti-Karen-NgongKamangu (Orange Line in Figure 1)
......before entering an underground tunnel after the Carnivore Restaurant to the south of Langata Road near the Langata Army Barracks. It will then cross Langata Road still in the tunnel above the Langata Cemetery and take a sharp north-eastern turn to the south of the cemetery through Kibera and then turn north on an overpass bridge over the Kibera area and then cross the busy Ngong Road.From there, the railway line will maintain a western direction on an embankment to the north of Dagoretti Market and follow the oil pipeline corridor inside the Ngong Forest to the east of Karen...
....
The estimated construction cost for this route is about $674 million. The route would have an additional annual operational cost of 2.12 million $ compared to other 6 proposed routes. Route option 1 has a higher social impact due to the level of public disturbance during the SGR construction as a result of the high number of key utility crossings (roads, power lines, narrow gauge railway). The operation phase will have a large number of SGR noise and vibration receptors.
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Anyway, This is the tabular summary of the routeoptions

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For that 40km length from Nairobi Station up to ngong tunnel, the better option was between option 3 and/or 4, because they required the least capital cost and also had the lowest operational cost estimate, That 40km section alone costed $500 million !!! imagine what would have been the cost if they had decided to demolish structures along Mombasa road to construct the rail or dug a tunnel below Nairobi..
 
Kifaru_07 said:
How do you lie to yourself that much that a commercial bank is better than development bank of a billateral deal. If Kenya gets any issues we just renegotiate and payment period is extended. Then a development exim bank gives 5 to 10 years grace period to start things up. I would not be suprised if TZ has already started paying the loan on a railway that hasn't finished construction. Commercial banks if you default you do refinancing meaning take another loan to pay that other loan..

Mko pabaya kushinda Kenya... mlianzia na kuimba pesa za ndani sasa mnasema loan ya commercial is very good.. mwishowe mtajua hizi shida mnachekelea Kenya zenu zitakua mbovu zaidi..
Hamna cargo na passengers, Dar inabaki na cargo na middle-class, Kenya population and cargo use ziko around Nairobi and past it untill Uganda. Losses are coming, shida ni hamtambiwa na serekali inayo ficha ukweli wa mambo.
Swali ni hio loan unasema, can you list its features here? Payment period, grace period, interest rate, amount and cost of acquiring it? if Tz govt actually shares such info.
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Unajua commercial banks kabla hazijatoa mkopo zina angalia nini!? unajua banks zina policy ambazo zina fuatisha principles of lending. Hamna commercial bank anayotoa pesa kwenye mradi ambao uta make loss from the word go kama SGR yenu ambayo ndani ya mwaka wa kwanza tu Usd 100m imepotea!
Hilo jibu nilikua namweleza mwenzako ila na wewe umerudi pale pale!! mnachosha kuelezwa kitu kile kile over and over again. Kumaliza huu mjadala ngoja nitumie maneno yako "Dar hakuna cargo wala passengers" see how stupid it sounds.

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thisdayes said:
Unajua commercial banks kabla hazijatoa mkopo zina angalia nini!? unajua banks zina policy ambazo zina fuatisha principles of lending. Hamna commercial bank anayotoa pesa kwenye mradi ambao uta make loss from the word go kama SGR yenu ambayo ndani ya mwaka wa kwanza tu Usd 100m imepotea!
Hilo jibu nilikua namweleza mwenzako ila na wewe umerudi pale pale!! mnachosha kuelezwa kitu kile kile over and over again. Kumaliza huu mjadala ngoja nitumie maneno yako "Dar hakuna cargo wala passengers" see how stupid it sounds.

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Benki ya commecial inajua its dealing with a government, loss au profit a government has an international obligation to pay its loans first out of revenue collection and if not to refinance it with another loan, go read about what happened to Greece, sasa wamepewa loan zingine kulipa zile walishindwa. Unajaribu kulinganisha vile benki hupeana mkopo kwa wananchi na vile hupeana kwa serikali, lakini kuna tofauti kubwa. Mwananchi anaeza defaut na hakuna mahali utampeleka baada ya kuuza vitu vyake. Serikali, benki inachukua TRA collection by force, au wanashikilia ndege zenu zikiwa nchi zingine , au sanctions...
Benki haezi kataa kupea Tanzania loan, lazima mlipe even if the railway isn't moving.
 
ndughuri msuya said:
DRC unaiacha wapi ambayo ndio tageti yetu
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SGR ya Tanzania ina mizigo mingi ya kwenda inland Tanzania na kwenye landlocked countries of Burundi Uganda Rwanda Congo and Zambia. Halafu ina mizigo ya kurudi toka kwenye mines za tz, Rwanda and Congo so biashara kwenda na kurudi ipo nyingi tuu unlike Kenyan SGR mizigo ya kwenda Nairobi ipo ila kurudi Mombasa ni issue
 
kijiografia tupo vizuri kwa kutoa huduma kwa majirani wengi zaidi kuliko kenya wanajifafanya kujitanua hata mpaka Rwanda na Burundi.wataonja joto ya jiwe
 
Kifaru_07 said:
Benki ya commecial inajua its dealing with a government, loss au profit a government has an international obligation to pay its loans first out of revenue collection and if not to refinance it with another loan, go read about what happened to Greece, sasa wamepewa loan zingine kulipa zile walishindwa. Unajaribu kulinganisha vile benki hupeana mkopo kwa wananchi na vile hupeana kwa serikali, lakini kuna tofauti kubwa. Mwananchi anaeza defaut na hakuna mahali utampeleka baada ya kuuza vitu vyake. Serikali, benki inachukua TRA collection by force, au wanashikilia ndege zenu zikiwa nchi zingine , au sanctions...
Benki haezi kataa kupea Tanzania loan, lazima mlipe even if the railway isn't moving.
Click to expand...
We nyamaza,, wasikilize wenzenu nao kilio hichohicho, na hapo ndio utajua kwann Tz tupo pazuri, unakopeshwa unazirudisha tena



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