Beating the Drum on One Side: Confusing the People on Both Sides

[FaizaFoxy]

Kuhusu Mau Mau au Maji Maji

Hataa Profesa anaweza kufanya kosa la kitoto.
Kwa haraka niliandika Mau Mau lakini maana yangu ilikuwa Maj Maji.
Na omba msamaha kwa wasomaji wangu kwa kosa hilo.
Kosa kadogo kama hilo haliwezi kupindua logic na ukweli wa makala mzima.
Ni wale ambao hawataki kufikiria mambo kwa kiundani ndiyo watanganganyia makosa madogo.
Kama utasoma scientific journals utaona section ya corrections; wanasayansi wengi wana
rekebisha makala yao na kutoa makosa yaliogunduliwa na wasomaji.

Halafu nataka kuwafahamisha kuwa hapo kwenye Jamii Forums kuna NUSU TU ya makala
yangu Beating the Drum... Sehemu ya mwisho Conclusions imekatwa. Sijui nani amefany kosa hilo.
Ni bora kusoma makala mzima kabla ya kuyajadili.



Prof. Karim Hirji

Kwanini humuulizi KVM aliyeileta?

Hirji sijaona cha maana katika paper yako, sijaona wapi ambapo umeonesha Said kasema hivi na huu si ukweli, sijaona kabisa. Ulipojaribu kusema hivyo ni pale ilipofanya "kosa la kitoto" na pale ulipoanza kuleta "data" tena kwa kukumbusha si data tu, maana data zinaweza kuwa hata maneno, wewe umeleta zaidi ya data, umeleta statistics za kufikirika, ukaweka watu wanne wa kuwaota (imaginary), ukajibu wewe mwenyewe kama vile wamejibu watu wanne kwa kuota tu.

Sasa "Professor" hiyo paper ina maana kweli kwa data na statistics za kufikirika? hivi unacheza na akili za watu au unapima uwezo wetu? unataka tukae tunabishana kwa data na statics za kufikirika?

 

[Companero]

Umerudi? ulikimbia humu, sasa huyo kasema nini cha kukufurahisha sana? kajiaibisha kutokujuwa Kiingereza kataka eti kunikosoa kitu ambacho hakielewi, ni kama wewe ulipokuja dai eti unataka kujuwa "sampling" imefanywa wapi? Khaa sampling! kwenye historia?

Hivi hizo shule mlienda kusomea ujinga?

Usiniangushe "pedagogic at heart", kuna 'sampling' kwenye historia hasa 'Economic History'

 

[FaizaFoxy]

Kama hii hapa chini au wewe unaiona siyo hoja ya msingi?

"By marshalling an array of facts and utilizing key premises, Said draws conclusions of profound implication for our future" - Karim Hirji

Hayo maneno ya the so called "Professor" si ya Said, hizo "conclusions" za Said ziko wapi zenye "profound implications for our future"?

Hivi mkisoma hamuelewi au ndiyo tatizo la shule "zetu"?

 

[Companero]

Hirji sijaona cha maana katika paper yako, sijaona wapi ambapo umeonesha Said kasema hivi na huu si ukweli, sijaona kabisa.

Labda uanze kujibu hoja hii ya Hirji kuhusu alichosema/alichomaanisha Said:

As Said points out, the colonial rulers used religion to divide the people, and weaken the anti-colonial movement....Said implies that Muslims were at the forefront of the Maji Maji uprising against German rule. But he fails to note that the Germans used Kiswahili, and for a time, the Arabic script, to administer the colony. That was strongly opposed by Christian missionaries. The German colonial authorities utilized the existing Madrasa system to recruit low-level clerks. Conversion to Islam rose during that era, and brought a portion of the Muslim clergy closer to the rulers. Using the form of reasoning applied by Said to Christianity under the British rule, one can say that Islam was closely allied with colonialism in that era. In truth, those associations did not emanate from the nature of these religions; they reflected the particularities of the historic eras.

 

[FaizaFoxy]

Usiniangushe "pedagogic at heart", kuna 'sampling' kwenye historia hasa 'Economic History'

Hebu wacha porojo, onesha hiyo sampling ya kihistoria na onesha kuwa Mohamed Said kaandika "economic history".

 

[Nyakageni]

Because they usually do cherry picking and in that part that is cut you said something that these guys who 'support' you (here in JF) they don't like professor. You are being used here don't you get it cousin?

UNA MATATIZO wewe, ingawa kalugha kanakuwa kazuri endelea kujitahidi

 

[Companero]

Gombe Sugu, kumbe upo ila umebadilisha/umefupisha jina lako! Et tu - Hata wewe kweli huoni hoja za msingi za Profu? Inshallah, urejee kesho tujadili aya kwa aya.

Kama zipi? mimi sijaona na Hirji kabwabwaja na kuhororoja sana lakini cha msingi sijakiona. Unaweza wewe kukionesha?

Kama hii hapa chini au wewe unaiona siyo hoja ya msingi?

"By marshalling an array of facts and utilizing key premises, Said draws conclusions of profound implication for our future" - Karim Hirji

Hayo maneno ya the so called "Professor" si ya Said, hizo "conclusions" za Said ziko wapi zenye "profound implications for our future"?

Hivi mkisoma hamuelewi au ndiyo tatizo la shule "zetu"?

Hicho ndicho Profu anajaribu kukifundisha kwenye makala yake, umuhimu wa mtiririko wa hoja na mantiki (logic: premise => conclusion)

 

[Companero]

Hebu wacha porojo, onesha hiyo sampling ya kihistoria na onesha kuwa Mohamed Said kaandika "economic history".

Ukishasema kuna kunyimwa fursa basi tayari unaongelea uchumi ndugu yangu, rejea jedwali aliloliweka Profu makala-ni.

 

[FaizaFoxy]

Labda uanze kujibu hoja hii ya Hirji kuhusu alichosema/alichomaanisha Said:

As Said points out, the colonial rulers used religion to divide the people, and weaken the anti-colonial movement....Said implies that Muslims were at the forefront of the Maji Maji uprising against German rule. But he fails to note that the Germans used Kiswahili, and for a time, the Arabic script, to administer the colony. That was strongly opposed by Christian missionaries. The German colonial authorities utilized the existing Madrasa system to recruit low-level clerks. Conversion to Islam rose during that era, and brought a portion of the Muslim clergy closer to the rulers. Using the form of reasoning applied by Said to Christianity under the British rule, one can say that Islam was closely allied with colonialism in that era. In truth, those associations did not emanate from the nature of these religions; they reflected the particularities of the historic eras.

Hayo ni maoni ya Hirji bila reference yoyote ya kutuonesha kuwa yu mkweli, au hulioni hilo? na ni ya kufikirika kwa sababu ukweli wa maji maji ni huu, pata darsa dogo kutoka Mohamed Said, halafu pingana nalo hili:

FF,
Naweka hapa kutoka kitabu cha Abdul Sykes athar za Maji Maji kwa ndugu zetu:

[TABLE="class: cms_table, width: 601"]
[TR]
[TD]''When the Maji Maji War began in 1905 to try to oust the Germans from Tanganyika, the predominantly Christian areas in the south refused to join the movement and actually fought alongside the German forces against the patriots. This was because the uprising had begun in Muslim dominated areas and had within it Muslim characteristics. Missionaries, being collaborators, were taken as legitimate targets by the Maji Maji fighters. As a result, African Christians saw Maji Maji War as an uprising against Christianity. The Maji Maji movement was defeated by the Germans who committed atrocities against the people and their leaders. This left a big scar in the minds of Muslims in the south and the people in general, and hence the apolitical behaviour of the Christians in the south.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Following this, Africans in the south under the control of the British and missionaries were greatly subdued. After being defeated in the war by superior European weapons, the Church now saw in the misery of the people opportunity to exert its power in the area by providing schools and hospitals. The Church and the British were therefore seen as kind and considerate masters as opposed to the brutal German government.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]The nationalist movement as it was with the Maji Maji War began in predominantly Muslim areas following the same established pattern of colonial resistance. Christians in the Southern Province looked upon TANU as it did on the Maji Maji uprisings: as another Muslim movement which had come again to disrupt peace and stability in the south. This time, it was said, Muslims were preparing to wage war against the British.''[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


Wanajamvi,
Historia hii inawapa shida sana wanahistoria wetu kuikubali.
Hakika kwa kiasi fulani inafedhehesha.

Suleiman Mamba mmoja wa majemadari wa Vita
Vya Maji Maji. Alinyongwa na Wajerumani.

 

[FaizaFoxy]

Ukishasema kuna kunyimwa fursa basi tayari unaongelea uchumi ndugu yangu, rejea jedwali aliloliweka Profu makala-ni.

Hapo unaongea porojo zako, jedwali ambalo Professor wako anakiri la kufikirika (hypothetically) unataka nirejee kama kigezo cha Kihistoria? huko hunipeleki.

Halafu hizo fursa unazoongelea katika paper tunayoijadili hapa ya Mohamed Said ni zipi kijana hizo fursa? fursa za taifa kutokuwa na "heroes" ndiyo za ki "uchumi"? Fikiri japo kiduchu.

Hebu nipe nukuu ya hizo "fursa" za " kiuchumi" unazoongelea wewe kutoka kwenye paper ya Mohamed Said tunayoijadili.

 

[Companero]

Hayo ni maoni ya Hirji bila reference yoyote ya kutuonesha kuwa yu mkweli, au hulioni hilo?

Bado unakimbia darasa la mantiki (logic) analolitoa Profu kwa kutojibu hiyo mistari myekundu, je, si kweli kwamba:

The German colonial authorities utilized the existing Madrasa system to recruit low-level clerks. Conversion to Islam rose during that era, and brought a portion of the Muslim clergy closer to the rulers. Using the form of reasoning applied by Said to Christianity under the British rule, one can say that Islam was closely allied with colonialism in that era.

?

Kweli?

Si Kweli?

Toa jibu moja tafadhali, usitupige chenga ya mwili.

 

[Punjab Singh]

UNA MATATIZO wewe, ingawa kalugha kanakuwa kazuri endelea kujitahidi

You are such a kid when you are overwhelmed. Teh teh teh.

 

[Punjab Singh]

Bado unakimbia darasa la mantiki (logic) analolitoa Profu kwa kutojibu hiyo mistari myekundu, je, si kweli kwamba:

The German colonial authorities utilized the existing Madrasa system to recruit low-level clerks. Conversion to Islam rose during that era, and brought a portion of the Muslim clergy closer to the rulers. Using the form of reasoning applied by Said to Christianity under the British rule, one can say that Islam was closely allied with colonialism in that era.

?

Kweli?

Si Kweli?

Toa jibu moja tafadhali, usitupige chenga ya mwili.

Dont be naive please we all know this was not even done in good faith it was a strategic trick by the Germans, we all know about the tricky accords the Germans entered with the chiefs and how they were used to suppress the people. And this wherrle Gombesugu flawes Karim Hirji.
One example is the story of Chief Kiwanga of Mahenge.

 

[Companero]

Halafu hizo fursa unazoongelea katika paper tunayoijadili hapa ya Mohamed Said ni zipi kijana hizo fursa? fursa za taifa kutokuwa na "heroes" ndiyo za ki "uchumi"? Fikiri japo kiduchu.

Hebu nipe nukuu ya hizo "fursa" za " kiuchumi" unazoongelea wewe kutoka kwenye paper ya Mohamed Said tunayoijadili.

Maandiko ya Mzee Said yanasomwa kwa ujumla wake, ndiyo maana hata yeye mwenyewe anajirea-ga, haya hebu rejea hii:

"Nyerere told his audience that the imbalances between Muslims and Christians which his government had inherited from the British were rectified under his rule: And they (Muslim) gave us chance through our education policies, to correct the imbalances, whichi we have done...The speech was a farce. The truth is that three decades after independence Muslim are no better off than they were under colonialism" - Kitabu cha Mohamed Said Ukurasa wa 308 hadi 309

Sasa hapo 'pedagogic at heart' haioni 'pedagogy' ya fursa za ki"uchumi"?

 

[Companero]

Dont be naive please we all know this was not even done in good faith it was a strategic trick by the Germans, we all know about the tricky accords the Germans entered with the chiefs and how they were used to suppress the people. And this wherrle Gombesugu flawes Karim Hirji.

At least you agree that it actually happened, maybe the ''pedagogic at heart" will follow suit

 

[FaizaFoxy]

Bado unakimbia darasa la mantiki (logic) analolitoa Profu kwa kutojibu hiyo mistari myekundu, je, si kweli kwamba:

The German colonial authorities utilized the existing Madrasa system to recruit low-level clerks. Conversion to Islam rose during that era, and brought a portion of the Muslim clergy closer to the rulers. Using the form of reasoning applied by Said to Christianity under the British rule, one can say that Islam was closely allied with colonialism in that era.

?

Kweli?

Si Kweli?

Toa jibu moja tafadhali, usitupige chenga ya mwili.

Naona hujayasoma majibu yangu, rudia:

FF,
Naweka hapa kutoka kitabu cha Abdul Sykes athar za Maji Maji kwa ndugu zetu:

[TABLE="class: cms_table, width: 601"]
[TR]
[TD]''When the Maji Maji War began in 1905 to try to oust the Germans from Tanganyika, the predominantly Christian areas in the south refused to join the movement and actually fought alongside the German forces against the patriots. This was because the uprising had begun in Muslim dominated areas and had within it Muslim characteristics. Missionaries, being collaborators, were taken as legitimate targets by the Maji Maji fighters. As a result, African Christians saw Maji Maji War as an uprising against Christianity. The Maji Maji movement was defeated by the Germans who committed atrocities against the people and their leaders. This left a big scar in the minds of Muslims in the south and the people in general, and hence the apolitical behaviour of the Christians in the south.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Following this, Africans in the south under the control of the British and missionaries were greatly subdued. After being defeated in the war by superior European weapons, the Church now saw in the misery of the people opportunity to exert its power in the area by providing schools and hospitals. The Church and the British were therefore seen as kind and considerate masters as opposed to the brutal German government.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]The nationalist movement as it was with the Maji Maji War began in predominantly Muslim areas following the same established pattern of colonial resistance. Christians in the Southern Province looked upon TANU as it did on the Maji Maji uprisings: as another Muslim movement which had come again to disrupt peace and stability in the south. This time, it was said, Muslims were preparing to wage war against the British.''[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


Wanajamvi,
Historia hii inawapa shida sana wanahistoria wetu kuikubali.
Hakika kwa kiasi fulani inafedhehesha.

Suleiman Mamba mmoja wa majemadari wa Vita
Vya Maji Maji. Alinyongwa na Wajerumani.


Na kama hayo hayajakutosha kuna hiki kipande kidogo kililetwa na mwenzako mmoja, kabda kitakusaidia kuelewa unachoongea kuhusu "logic":

Mkuu Mohamed Said

Nakubaliana nawe ktk logic juu ya nani hasa walikerwa na ukoloni na walitoa msukumo Wa kuwaondoa....

Naturally makoloni mengi ya wazungu walitekeleza makubaliano ya Berlin kulinda ukristo ktk colonies zao...

In a logical manner isingekua rahisi anayelindwa ama kubebwa akapambana na anayempa ulinzi au anayembeba....

---

Huyo ni lusungo

Chanzo: https://www.jamiiforums.com/jukwaa-...-on-both-sides-post11986724.html#post11986724

 

[Nyakageni]

Umerudi? ulikimbia humu, sasa huyo kasema nini cha kukufurahisha sana? kajiaibisha kutokujuwa Kiingereza kataka eti kunikosoa kitu ambacho hakielewi, ni kama wewe ulipokuja dai eti unataka kujuwa "sampling" imefanywa wapi? Khaa sampling! kwenye historia?

Hivi hizo shule mlienda kusomea ujinga?

this is awkward!
RESEARCH BILA METHODOLOGY na unaona sawa!

hakuna research design, sampling, literature review, tools & methods, data collection & analysis, references!!?

NAWE UNASEMA SAWA TU

hivi umesoma kitabu cha "MBIRU protest in pre colonial Tanganyika"? Mbona hakuna ujinga wa wahusika wote ni wavaa misuli?

 

[FaizaFoxy]

Maandiko ya Mzee Said yanasomwa kwa ujumla wake, ndiyo maana hata yeye mwenyewe anajirea-ga, haya hebu rejea hii:

"Nyerere told his audience that the imbalances between Muslims and Christians which his government had inherited from the British were rectified under his rule: And they (Muslim) gave us chance through our education policies, to correct the imbalances, whichi we have done...The speech was a farce. The truth is that three decades after independence Muslim are no better off than they were under colonialism" - Kitabu cha Mohamed Said Ukurasa wa 308 hadi 309

Sasa hapo 'pedagogic at heart' haioni 'pedagogy' ya fursa za ki"uchumi"?

Naona sasa unachanganya mada, hivi hukuliona hili

By FaizaFoxy
Halafu hizo fursa unazoongelea katika paper tunayoijadili hapa ya Mohamed Said ni zipi kijana hizo fursa? fursa za taifa kutokuwa na "heroes" ndiyo za ki "uchumi"? Fikiri japo kiduchu.

Hebu nipe nukuu ya hizo "fursa" za " kiuchumi" unazoongelea wewe kutoka kwenye paper ya Mohamed Said tunayoijadili.

Kama sasa umeliona, hicho kitabu ndiyo anachokijadili "Professor" wako kwenye hiyo argument yake yenye "makosa ya kitoto"? pia, umeona hayo hayo maneno uliyoyaleta ya Mohamed Said anamnukuu nani? unaweza kukataa hiyo nukuu? huko ulikoipachua hukuona reference?

Hivi hizo shule huwa mnaenda kusomea ujinga?

 

[Sangarara]

OK, tunangoja "full version" ya "Professor" Hirji tuione, maana hii kakiri ina makosa haifai na si yenyewe.

Kama una nia ya kuanzisha mada kuhusu Mungu na Uislam nakushauri ufunguwe nyuzi, hapa kuna ya Professor Hirji.

..

Sawa, lakini ukumbuke katika uzi huu hakuna sehemu nimefanya jaribio lolote la kumuhusisha Mungu na Uislamu. tumsubiri profesa.

 

[Sangarara]

Swali uulize wewe, mimi nikupe njia ya kupata jibu, lawama na visingizio vya kijinga untupie mimi? Majanga.

Ni wapi nimezungumzia mambo ya mauaji hadi useme mambo ya kumalizana?