tutafikatu
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Zifuatazo ni sehemu za mahojiano na mtaalamu wa magonjwa ya akili Mwarabu na Marekani Wafa Sultan. Mahojiano hayo yalirushwa hewani na Al-Jazeera TV mnamo Februari 21, 2006
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Wafa Sultan: Mgongano tunaoshuhudia duniani kote sio mgongano wa dini, au mgongano wa ustaarabu. Ni mgongano kati ya vitu viwili vinavyopingana, kati ya zama mbili. Ni mgongano kati ya mawazo ambayo ni ya Zama za Kati na mawazo mengine ambayo ni ya karne ya 21. Ni mgongano kati ya ustaarabu na maisha ya kale, kati ya wastaarabu na wakale, kati ya ushenzi na busara. Ni mgongano kati ya uhuru na ukandamizaji, kati ya demokrasia na udikteta. Ni mgongano kati ya haki za binadamu, kwa upande mmoja, na ukiukwaji wa haki hizi, kwa upande mwingine. Ni mgongano kati ya wale wanaowatendea wanawake kama wanyama, na wale wanaowatendea kama wanadamu. Tunachokiona leo sio mgongano wa ustaarabu. Ustaarabu haugombani, bali hushindana.
[...]
Mtangazaji: Ninaelewa kutokana na maneno yako kwamba kinachotokea leo ni mgongano kati ya utamaduni wa Magharibi, na kubaki nyuma na ujinga wa Waislamu?
Wafa Sultan: Ndiyo, ndivyo ninavyomaanisha.
[...]
Mtangazaji: Nani alikuja na dhana ya mgongano wa ustaarabu? Je! hakuwa Samuel Huntington? Hakuwa Bin Laden. Ningependa kulijadili suala hili, kama hutojali...
Wafa Sultan: Waislamu ndio walianza kutumia usemi huu. Waislamu ndio walioanzisha mgongano wa ustaarabu. Mtume wa Uislamu amesema: "Nimeamrishwa nipigane na watu mpaka wamuamini Mwenyezi Mungu na Mtume wake." Waislamu walipowagawanya watu kuwa Waislamu na wasiokuwa Waislamu, na kuwaita kupigana na wengine mpaka waamini kile wanachoamini wao wenyewe, walianza mgongano huu, na wakaanzisha vita hivi. Ili kukomesha vita hivi, ni lazima watazame upya vitabu na mitaala yao ya Kiislamu, ambayo imejaa wito wa takfir na kupigana na makafiri.
Mwenzangu amesema kamwe hachukii imani za watu wengine. Ni ustaarabu gani juu ya uso wa dunia hii unamruhusu kuwaita watu wengine kwa majina ambayo hawakujichagulia wenyewe? Wakati fulani, anawaita Ahl Al-Dhimma, wakati mwingine anawaita “Watu wa Kitabu,” na tena wakati mwingine anawalinganisha na nyani na nguruwe, au anawaita Wakristo “wale walio ghadhabu ya Mwenyezi Mungu". Nani aliyekwambieni kuwa wao ni “Watu wa Kitabu”? Hao si watu wa Kitabu, ni watu wa vitabu vingi. Vitabu vyote muhimu vya kisayansi ulivyo navyo leo ni vyao, matunda ya fikra zao za bure na za ubunifu. Ni nini kinakupa haki ya kuwaita “wale walio ghadhabu ya Mwenyezi Mungu,” au “wale waliopotea,” kisha ukaja hapa na kusema kwamba dini yako inakuamrisha ujiepushe na kuchukiza imani za wengine?
Mimi si Mkristo, Muislamu, wala Myahudi. Mimi siamini dini yoyote. Siamini katika miujiza, lakini ninaheshimu haki ya wengine ya kuiamini.
Dk. Ibrahim Al-Khouli: Je, wewe ni mzushi?
Wafa Sultan: Unaweza kusema chochote unachopenda. Mimi ni binadamu asiyeamini mambo ya ajabu...
Dk.Ibrahim Al-Khouli: Ikiwa wewe ni mzushi hakuna maana ya kukukemea, kwa vile umekufuru Uislamu, Mtume na Koran...
Wafa Sultan: Haya ni mambo ya kibinafsi ambayo hayakuhusu.
[...]
Wafa Sultan: Kaka, unaweza kuamini mawe, mradi usinirushie. Uko huru kumuabudu umtakaye, lakini imani za watu wengine si tatizo lako, iwe wanaamini kuwa Masiha ni Mungu, mtoto wa Maryamu, au Shetani ni Mungu mwana wa Maryamu. Acha watu wawe na imani zao.
[...]
Wafa Sultan: Mayahudi wametoka kwenye maangamizi ya kimbari, na kuulazimisha ulimwengu kuwaheshimu, kwa ujuzi wao, sio kwa ugaidi au utisho wao, kwa kazi yao, sio kwa kulia na kupiga kelele. Ubinadamu una madeni mengi ya uvumbuzi na sayansi ya karne ya 19 na 20 kwa wanasayansi wa Kiyahudi. Watu milioni 15, waliotawanyika kote ulimwenguni, waliungana na kupata haki zao kupitia kazi na maarifa. Hatujaona Myahudi hata mmoja akijilipua katika mgahawa wa Kijerumani. Hatujaona hata Myahudi mmoja akiharibu kanisa. Hatujaona Myahudi hata mmoja akiandamana kwa kuua watu. Waislamu wamegeuza sanamu tatu za Buddha kuwa kifusi. Hatujaona Budha hata mmoja akichoma Msikiti, kuua Mwislamu, au kuchoma ubalozi. Ni Waislamu pekee wanaotetea imani yao kwa kuchoma makanisa, kuua watu na kuharibu balozi. Njia hii haitatoa matokeo yoyote. Waislamu lazima wajiulize ni nini wanaweza kufanya kwa ajili ya wanadamu, kabla ya kudai kwamba wanadamu wawaheshimu.
View: https://twitter.com/MEMRIReports/status/1093553511667781632?t=wsNS5rnA3M9kvIBYJ6hbPg&s=19
For English Speakers
Arab-American Psychiatrist Wafa Sultan: There Is No Clash of Civilizations but a Clash between the Mentality of the Middle Ages and That of the 21st Century
#1050 | 05:28
Source: Al-Jazeera Network (Qatar)
Following are excerpts from an interview with Arab-American psychiatrist Wafa Sultan. The interview was aired on Al-Jazeera TV on February 21, 2006
.
Wafa Sultan: The clash we are witnessing around the world is not a clash of religions, or a clash of civilizations. It is a clash between two opposites, between two eras. It is a clash between a mentality that belongs to the Middle Ages and another mentality that belongs to the 21st century. It is a clash between civilization and backwardness, between the civilized and the primitive, between barbarity and rationality. It is a clash between freedom and oppression, between democracy and dictatorship. It is a clash between human rights, on the one hand, and the violation of these rights, on other hand. It is a clash between those who treat women like beasts, and those who treat them like human beings. What we see today is not a clash of civilizations. Civilizations do not clash, but compete.
[...]
Host: I understand from your words that what is happening today is a clash between the culture of the West, and the backwardness and ignorance of the Muslims?
Wafa Sultan: Yes, that is what I mean.
[...]
Host: Who came up with the concept of a clash of civilizations? Was it not Samuel Huntington? It was not Bin Laden. I would like to discuss this issue, if you don't mind...
Wafa Sultan: The Muslims are the ones who began using this expression. The Muslims are the ones who began the clash of civilizations. The Prophet of Islam said: "I was ordered to fight the people until they believe in Allah and His Messenger." When the Muslims divided the people into Muslims and non-Muslims, and called to fight the others until they believe in what they themselves believe, they started this clash, and began this war. In order to stop this war, they must reexamine their Islamic books and curricula, which are full of calls for takfir and fighting the infidels.
My colleague has said that he never offends other people's beliefs. What civilization on the face of this earth allows him to call other people by names that they did not choose for themselves? Once, he calls them Ahl Al-Dhimma, another time he calls them the "People of the Book," and yet another time he compares them to apes and pigs, or he calls the Christians "those who incur Allah's wrath." Who told you that they are "People of the Book"? They are not the People of the Book, they are people of many books. All the useful scientific books that you have today are theirs, the fruit of their free and creative thinking. What gives you the right to call them "those who incur Allah's wrath," or "those who have gone astray," and then come here and say that your religion commands you to refrain from offending the beliefs of others?
I am not a Christian, a Muslim, or a Jew. I am a secular human being. I do not believe in the supernatural, but I respect others' right to believe in it.
Dr. Ibrahim Al-Khouli: Are you a heretic?
Wafa Sultan: You can say whatever you like. I am a secular human being who does not believe in the supernatural...
Dr. Ibrahim Al-Khouli: If you are a heretic, there is no point in rebuking you, since you have blasphemed against Islam, the Prophet, and the Koran...
Wafa Sultan: These are personal matters that do not concern you.
[...]
Wafa Sultan: Brother, you can believe in stones, as long as you don't throw them at me. You are free to worship whoever you want, but other people's beliefs are not your concern, whether they believe that the Messiah is God, son of Mary, or that Satan is God, son of Mary. Let people have their beliefs.
[...]
Wafa Sultan: The Jews have come from the tragedy (of the Holocaust), and forced the world to respect them, with their knowledge, not with their terror, with their work, not their crying and yelling. Humanity owes most of the discoveries and science of the 19th and 20th centuries to Jewish scientists. 15 million people, scattered throughout the world, united and won their rights through work and knowledge. We have not seen a single Jew blow himself up in a German restaurant. We have not seen a single Jew destroy a church. We have not seen a single Jew protest by killing people. The Muslims have turned three Buddha statues into rubble. We have not seen a single Buddhist burn down a Mosque, kill a Muslim, or burn down an embassy. Only the Muslims defend their beliefs by burning down churches, killing people, and destroying embassies. This path will not yield any results. The Muslims must ask themselves what they can do for humankind, before they demand that humankind respect them.
.
Wafa Sultan: Mgongano tunaoshuhudia duniani kote sio mgongano wa dini, au mgongano wa ustaarabu. Ni mgongano kati ya vitu viwili vinavyopingana, kati ya zama mbili. Ni mgongano kati ya mawazo ambayo ni ya Zama za Kati na mawazo mengine ambayo ni ya karne ya 21. Ni mgongano kati ya ustaarabu na maisha ya kale, kati ya wastaarabu na wakale, kati ya ushenzi na busara. Ni mgongano kati ya uhuru na ukandamizaji, kati ya demokrasia na udikteta. Ni mgongano kati ya haki za binadamu, kwa upande mmoja, na ukiukwaji wa haki hizi, kwa upande mwingine. Ni mgongano kati ya wale wanaowatendea wanawake kama wanyama, na wale wanaowatendea kama wanadamu. Tunachokiona leo sio mgongano wa ustaarabu. Ustaarabu haugombani, bali hushindana.
[...]
Mtangazaji: Ninaelewa kutokana na maneno yako kwamba kinachotokea leo ni mgongano kati ya utamaduni wa Magharibi, na kubaki nyuma na ujinga wa Waislamu?
Wafa Sultan: Ndiyo, ndivyo ninavyomaanisha.
[...]
Mtangazaji: Nani alikuja na dhana ya mgongano wa ustaarabu? Je! hakuwa Samuel Huntington? Hakuwa Bin Laden. Ningependa kulijadili suala hili, kama hutojali...
Wafa Sultan: Waislamu ndio walianza kutumia usemi huu. Waislamu ndio walioanzisha mgongano wa ustaarabu. Mtume wa Uislamu amesema: "Nimeamrishwa nipigane na watu mpaka wamuamini Mwenyezi Mungu na Mtume wake." Waislamu walipowagawanya watu kuwa Waislamu na wasiokuwa Waislamu, na kuwaita kupigana na wengine mpaka waamini kile wanachoamini wao wenyewe, walianza mgongano huu, na wakaanzisha vita hivi. Ili kukomesha vita hivi, ni lazima watazame upya vitabu na mitaala yao ya Kiislamu, ambayo imejaa wito wa takfir na kupigana na makafiri.
Mwenzangu amesema kamwe hachukii imani za watu wengine. Ni ustaarabu gani juu ya uso wa dunia hii unamruhusu kuwaita watu wengine kwa majina ambayo hawakujichagulia wenyewe? Wakati fulani, anawaita Ahl Al-Dhimma, wakati mwingine anawaita “Watu wa Kitabu,” na tena wakati mwingine anawalinganisha na nyani na nguruwe, au anawaita Wakristo “wale walio ghadhabu ya Mwenyezi Mungu". Nani aliyekwambieni kuwa wao ni “Watu wa Kitabu”? Hao si watu wa Kitabu, ni watu wa vitabu vingi. Vitabu vyote muhimu vya kisayansi ulivyo navyo leo ni vyao, matunda ya fikra zao za bure na za ubunifu. Ni nini kinakupa haki ya kuwaita “wale walio ghadhabu ya Mwenyezi Mungu,” au “wale waliopotea,” kisha ukaja hapa na kusema kwamba dini yako inakuamrisha ujiepushe na kuchukiza imani za wengine?
Mimi si Mkristo, Muislamu, wala Myahudi. Mimi siamini dini yoyote. Siamini katika miujiza, lakini ninaheshimu haki ya wengine ya kuiamini.
Dk. Ibrahim Al-Khouli: Je, wewe ni mzushi?
Wafa Sultan: Unaweza kusema chochote unachopenda. Mimi ni binadamu asiyeamini mambo ya ajabu...
Dk.Ibrahim Al-Khouli: Ikiwa wewe ni mzushi hakuna maana ya kukukemea, kwa vile umekufuru Uislamu, Mtume na Koran...
Wafa Sultan: Haya ni mambo ya kibinafsi ambayo hayakuhusu.
[...]
Wafa Sultan: Kaka, unaweza kuamini mawe, mradi usinirushie. Uko huru kumuabudu umtakaye, lakini imani za watu wengine si tatizo lako, iwe wanaamini kuwa Masiha ni Mungu, mtoto wa Maryamu, au Shetani ni Mungu mwana wa Maryamu. Acha watu wawe na imani zao.
[...]
Wafa Sultan: Mayahudi wametoka kwenye maangamizi ya kimbari, na kuulazimisha ulimwengu kuwaheshimu, kwa ujuzi wao, sio kwa ugaidi au utisho wao, kwa kazi yao, sio kwa kulia na kupiga kelele. Ubinadamu una madeni mengi ya uvumbuzi na sayansi ya karne ya 19 na 20 kwa wanasayansi wa Kiyahudi. Watu milioni 15, waliotawanyika kote ulimwenguni, waliungana na kupata haki zao kupitia kazi na maarifa. Hatujaona Myahudi hata mmoja akijilipua katika mgahawa wa Kijerumani. Hatujaona hata Myahudi mmoja akiharibu kanisa. Hatujaona Myahudi hata mmoja akiandamana kwa kuua watu. Waislamu wamegeuza sanamu tatu za Buddha kuwa kifusi. Hatujaona Budha hata mmoja akichoma Msikiti, kuua Mwislamu, au kuchoma ubalozi. Ni Waislamu pekee wanaotetea imani yao kwa kuchoma makanisa, kuua watu na kuharibu balozi. Njia hii haitatoa matokeo yoyote. Waislamu lazima wajiulize ni nini wanaweza kufanya kwa ajili ya wanadamu, kabla ya kudai kwamba wanadamu wawaheshimu.
View: https://twitter.com/MEMRIReports/status/1093553511667781632?t=wsNS5rnA3M9kvIBYJ6hbPg&s=19
For English Speakers
Arab-American Psychiatrist Wafa Sultan: There Is No Clash of Civilizations but a Clash between the Mentality of the Middle Ages and That of the 21st Century
#1050 | 05:28
Source: Al-Jazeera Network (Qatar)
Following are excerpts from an interview with Arab-American psychiatrist Wafa Sultan. The interview was aired on Al-Jazeera TV on February 21, 2006
.
Wafa Sultan: The clash we are witnessing around the world is not a clash of religions, or a clash of civilizations. It is a clash between two opposites, between two eras. It is a clash between a mentality that belongs to the Middle Ages and another mentality that belongs to the 21st century. It is a clash between civilization and backwardness, between the civilized and the primitive, between barbarity and rationality. It is a clash between freedom and oppression, between democracy and dictatorship. It is a clash between human rights, on the one hand, and the violation of these rights, on other hand. It is a clash between those who treat women like beasts, and those who treat them like human beings. What we see today is not a clash of civilizations. Civilizations do not clash, but compete.
[...]
Host: I understand from your words that what is happening today is a clash between the culture of the West, and the backwardness and ignorance of the Muslims?
Wafa Sultan: Yes, that is what I mean.
[...]
Host: Who came up with the concept of a clash of civilizations? Was it not Samuel Huntington? It was not Bin Laden. I would like to discuss this issue, if you don't mind...
Wafa Sultan: The Muslims are the ones who began using this expression. The Muslims are the ones who began the clash of civilizations. The Prophet of Islam said: "I was ordered to fight the people until they believe in Allah and His Messenger." When the Muslims divided the people into Muslims and non-Muslims, and called to fight the others until they believe in what they themselves believe, they started this clash, and began this war. In order to stop this war, they must reexamine their Islamic books and curricula, which are full of calls for takfir and fighting the infidels.
My colleague has said that he never offends other people's beliefs. What civilization on the face of this earth allows him to call other people by names that they did not choose for themselves? Once, he calls them Ahl Al-Dhimma, another time he calls them the "People of the Book," and yet another time he compares them to apes and pigs, or he calls the Christians "those who incur Allah's wrath." Who told you that they are "People of the Book"? They are not the People of the Book, they are people of many books. All the useful scientific books that you have today are theirs, the fruit of their free and creative thinking. What gives you the right to call them "those who incur Allah's wrath," or "those who have gone astray," and then come here and say that your religion commands you to refrain from offending the beliefs of others?
I am not a Christian, a Muslim, or a Jew. I am a secular human being. I do not believe in the supernatural, but I respect others' right to believe in it.
Dr. Ibrahim Al-Khouli: Are you a heretic?
Wafa Sultan: You can say whatever you like. I am a secular human being who does not believe in the supernatural...
Dr. Ibrahim Al-Khouli: If you are a heretic, there is no point in rebuking you, since you have blasphemed against Islam, the Prophet, and the Koran...
Wafa Sultan: These are personal matters that do not concern you.
[...]
Wafa Sultan: Brother, you can believe in stones, as long as you don't throw them at me. You are free to worship whoever you want, but other people's beliefs are not your concern, whether they believe that the Messiah is God, son of Mary, or that Satan is God, son of Mary. Let people have their beliefs.
[...]
Wafa Sultan: The Jews have come from the tragedy (of the Holocaust), and forced the world to respect them, with their knowledge, not with their terror, with their work, not their crying and yelling. Humanity owes most of the discoveries and science of the 19th and 20th centuries to Jewish scientists. 15 million people, scattered throughout the world, united and won their rights through work and knowledge. We have not seen a single Jew blow himself up in a German restaurant. We have not seen a single Jew destroy a church. We have not seen a single Jew protest by killing people. The Muslims have turned three Buddha statues into rubble. We have not seen a single Buddhist burn down a Mosque, kill a Muslim, or burn down an embassy. Only the Muslims defend their beliefs by burning down churches, killing people, and destroying embassies. This path will not yield any results. The Muslims must ask themselves what they can do for humankind, before they demand that humankind respect them.
