Questioning Mwalimu is of benefit to our understanding

Kizibao

umezungumzia maswala ya mashamba ya ujamaa na rushwa za juu enzi za sabini ambavyo ni havikusaidia nchi kuwa productive kwa mujibu wako. Consider tulikuwa na mabwana shamba hivyo sidhani kama tulikuwa tunalima kiolela olela tu ningependa kujua je kwanini the policy was a failure after a long period of trying. Was it as a result of lacking natural resources such as rain hili kumwagilia mashamba, did they have plan B in irrigating the farms, was it because people dint fancy the idea therefore participating in the farming declined, or was it just a policy that was not well detailed ili tujue uwezo wa mwalimu kifikra. Labda hata tumlaumu aliyemshauri ni nani alikuwa 'sidekick' wake kwenye kutunga sera na mwongozo wakati huo or was it just a one man band. If so then how did he deal with aides (ministers) and what were there roles?

Na kama kulikuwa na rushwa who were the givers and takers of the act, maana asilimia kubwa ya watanzania hawakuwa na hela, na je kabla ya Sokoine kuibuka na uhujumu uchumi ilikuwaje wadosi waweze kupeta enzi ya mwalimu na wazawa kukwama. Mwalimu alikuwa anawaogopa weusi kwa sababu ya kulinda utawala wake ndio maana akawakandamiza wasomi wengi na kuwanyima elimu ya juu watanzania wengi kipindi chake. Mbona hawa watanzania wenye asili za kiasia hawakuwa na hali mbaya kama watanzania weusi wengi, it seems we dint have a level playing ground in the social. Therefore what were his motives in allowing others and limiting others, kwa sababu its pretty much the same naona naposoma akina manji na sijui the jeetu's?

Companero said:

Hakuna mtu katika historia ya Tanzania ambaye amehojiwa kama Mwalimu Nyerere. Na kumhoji huko hakukuanza leo wala hakutaisha kesho. Kinachopaswa sasa ni sisi kujihoji tunafanya nini - pale Nyerere aliposhindwa sisi vipi? Leo nimetembelea shamba ambalo Nyerere alilianzisha kwa ushirikiano na watu wa Korea, wenyewe wanaliita KOTACO. Majengo yapo tu na shamba kapewa mwekezaji. Sasa hapo wa kuhojiwa ni sisi kuhusu namna ambavyo tunanufaika na mwekezaji huyo na namna tunavyoyatumia majengo hayo na umeme uliovutwa na KOTACO katika kitongoji cha hapo enzi hizo. Hivyo hivyo tunapaswa kujihoji kuhusu vyote tulivyovibinafsisha baada ya Nyerere kuvitaifisha na Watanzania kushindwa kuviendesha - tujihoji kuhusu mashamba ya NAFCO, NARCO Viwanda vya Ubungo Garments n.k. - Je, vina tija gani sasa hivi na kwa manufaa ya nani?

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ndipo tunapotaka kwenda lakini kuna red tape, sasa tunataka kujua ni wapi hizi nguvu zilipo kwa sababu a lot is being lost without much fuss. hata kesho ukisikia mzungu kakabidhiwa ardhi au mwarabu kapewa sehemu ya wanyapori there is not much we can. Wenyewe on the ground walipojaribu ku protest walichomewa vibanda vyao mioto, walipojaribu kwenda mjini kuandamana walitimuliwa na viongozi wao kusekwa only to be accused of being non residents. kibaya zaidi habari za leo kwetu watanzania kesho ni hadithi za jana whatever happened to those ladies?

sasa unataka watu wakurupuke from no where waishie malupango lazima ujue vita inaaanzia wapi kama kujipanga. Kama ni kusema polisi wamekuwa na nguvu mno au mahakama tumekosa imani nayo. Kwa tanzania ni bora kuanzia chini kuliko juu. Mpaka hapo tutapoweza kuwa na nguvu za kuweka watu accountable at anylevel ndio ukweli tunaweza fanya chochote vinginevyo tunaongopeana na inakuwa kama tunajiburudisha tu kibarazani jamaa awasikii kabisa. Wapo dunia nyingine wao.

Nyani Ngabu said:

Ni 'lukuki'. Hiyo 'luluki' labda ni kilugha chenu



Chochote :becky:

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Nyani,
Naona uendelee na hiyo kazi ya Ualimu, Kwani tumezidi kutuma taarifa zetu bila kuzipitia. kazi nzuri.

Juma Contena said:

Kizibao

umezungumzia maswala ya mashamba ya ujamaa na rushwa za juu enzi za sabini ambavyo ni havikusaidia nchi kuwa productive kwa mujibu wako. Consider tulikuwa na mabwana shamba hivyo sidhani kama tulikuwa tunalima kiolela olela tu ningependa kujua je kwanini the policy was a failure after a long period of trying. Was it as a result of lacking natural resources such as rain hili kumwagilia mashamba, did they have plan B in irrigating the farms, was it because people dint fancy the idea therefore participating in the farming declined, or was it just a policy that was not well detailed ili tujue uwezo wa mwalimu kifikra. Labda hata tumlaumu aliyemshauri ni nani alikuwa 'sidekick' wake kwenye kutunga sera na mwongozo wakati huo or was it just a one man band. If so then how did he deal with aides (ministers) and what were there roles?

Na kama kulikuwa na rushwa who were the givers and takers of the act, maana asilimia kubwa ya watanzania hawakuwa na hela, na je kabla ya Sokoine kuibuka na uhujumu uchumi ilikuwaje wadosi waweze kupeta enzi ya mwalimu na wazawa kukwama. Mwalimu alikuwa anawaogopa weusi kwa sababu ya kulinda utawala wake ndio maana akawakandamiza wasomi wengi na kuwanyima elimu ya juu watanzania wengi kipindi chake. Mbona hawa watanzania wenye asili za kiasia hawakuwa na hali mbaya kama watanzania weusi wengi, it seems we dint have a level playing ground in the social. Therefore what were his motives in allowing others and limiting others, kwa sababu its pretty much the same naona naposoma akina manji na sijui the jeetu's?

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Let us look the how villagization policy has been implemented.1)Preventive Detention Act to suppress trade unions and lock up opponents at will.2)People are forced to relocate onto collective farms 3) Farmers lost their freedom, and the state took over their lands and claimed their crops.4)farmers often received far less for their labor than they did before collectivization, and some refused to work; others retaliated by destroying their crops.Do you think after all they have going through relocated peoples and farmers who lost their land they are going to be productive?and thay know exactly they are not the one who going to benefits?and some ministers oppose that policy and they had suggested that government should first launch a pilot scheme to see if the policy was going to work on a national scale,and all of us knows that they end up to be an enemies of state and some of them go to exile
Nationalizations transformed the government into the largest employer in the country. It was involved from everything from retailing to import-export trade and even baking, creating an environment ripe for corruption. Cumbersome bureaucratic procedures multiplied and excessive tax rates were set. Public funds were misappropriated and put to unproductive use. Purchasing power declined at an unprecedented rate and even essential commodities became unavailable. A system of permits (vibali) allowed elite officials to collect huge bribes in exchange for the vibali.A foundation for systemic corruption had been laid.Roads eroded to become some of the worst in Africa. Industrial sector diminished. The state-owned mine company proved a failure.
Na kitu chengine vijiji vya ujamaa siyo idea ya mwalimu bali yeye aliiga tu kama utafuatilia kwa ilikuwa ni prototype ya Collectivization in soviet union(1928-1933),Collectivization in hungary na Resettlement and villagization in ethiopia na kumbuka hizo nchi zilikuwa siyo changa kama ilivyokuwa nchi yetu na tukubali wazi ya kuwa tulikurupuka tu kwani tulikuwa hatuna wataalam wa kutosha wakati ule.Na kkitu kimoja tunapaswa kukiangalia kwa makini Mwalimu alishidwa kuangalia faida ya hii collective farming kabla ya ku implement Tz kwani katika hizo nchi zilizokuwa zinatumia policy hii, imeprove ya kuwa ni imefeli. kwani mwaka 1932-1933 watu kama 3-7 million walikufa ukraine kutokana na njaa baada Sterlin kuwalazimisha wakulima hiyo collective farming.
Mimi ninachojua yakuwa Wahindi walikuwa victim wakubwa wa azimio la arusha wani walipoteza biashara zao,viwanda vyao na vyumba zao sasa sina uhakika kama mwalimu alikuwa nawapendelea.
Kwa maoni yangu mimi naona ya kuwa imported policies ndiyo zilizokuwa mbaya.Sasa nashangaa mpaka hii leo kuna watu wana akili zao wanalitetea Azimio la arusha.
Mungu Ibariki Tanzania

It seems the 'villagization act', wasn't popular and had many clauses that dis-empowered the masses and robbed the're free will, why did the same people still trusted in mwalimu so much. I mean apart from mini demonstration on the farms, were there any major marches to protest against the 'Act'. You mentioned some ministers who were against the measures though no names, and what did they propose publicly or privately if known and to whom.

Again no one would like to work against there will especially doing something they didnt like nor no anyone would like to loose their plots without being compensated. Its historical events like these that makes me question mwalimu's own reasoning abilities. Either with a 'pilot scheme' or without, its unjust to force people into participating on activities against there will.

Many other leaders who had acted on the same principles in other parts of the world had different fates in the end compared to Mwalimu. So why a man who caused so much distress during his reign, today is being potrayed as a man who never set a foot wrong (are we still as a society still in ignorance?). Im thinking on the events before the 'CCJ' was official about to be launched as a political party. Since most of those at the top had experienced 'Mwalimus' leadership, which wasn't one to boost about by your writing are we as a Nation happy to live and follow lies not able to challenge concept and be original. Meaning we're scared to face the truth even if tis is in front of us, another example being the current officials not questioning the healthy of a man who is obviously seek yet seeking a second term? Is this a social phenomenon (us living a lie).

And finally when you say mwalimu was an imitator I totally I agree with you there, in my opinion he lacked originality. True most of his ideas had developed from other parts of the globe rather than coining them himself. And I believe that sums up his end results achieving little in terms of economic progress before deciding to throw the towel. Along the way he left an impact on us in terms of our social attitude towards development, he his to blame for peoples disenchantment in their political affairs believing they have no power to contend with, nor a voice to be heard. CCM has yet to give us democracy it would be impossible if we dont push for the standard of education offered, its the same trick mwalimu used to corrupt the poeple he ruled and the usage of police power to intimidate us yes, he was a failure.

Companero said:

Hakuna mtu katika historia ya Tanzania ambaye amehojiwa kama Mwalimu Nyerere. Na kumhoji huko hakukuanza leo wala hakutaisha kesho. Kinachopaswa sasa ni sisi kujihoji tunafanya nini - pale Nyerere aliposhindwa sisi vipi? Leo nimetembelea shamba ambalo Nyerere alilianzisha kwa ushirikiano na watu wa Korea, wenyewe wanaliita KOTACO. Majengo yapo tu na shamba kapewa mwekezaji. Sasa hapo wa kuhojiwa ni sisi kuhusu namna ambavyo tunanufaika na mwekezaji huyo na namna tunavyoyatumia majengo hayo na umeme uliovutwa na KOTACO katika kitongoji cha hapo enzi hizo. Hivyo hivyo tunapaswa kujihoji kuhusu vyote tulivyovibinafsisha baada ya Nyerere kuvitaifisha na Watanzania kushindwa kuviendesha - tujihoji kuhusu mashamba ya NAFCO, NARCO Viwanda vya Ubungo Garments n.k. - Je, vina tija gani sasa hivi na kwa manufaa ya nani?

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Companero,
Let the debate continue!

Funny. Isn't it? How people consider it "freedom of speech" to speak bad of Nyerere while at the same time they fret when other people disagree with their assessment of Nyerere...

Makanyaga said:

Mzee Ngabu;
Leo na wewe umenikamata,..., tatizo umenikamata kwenye keyboard na siyo kwenye ubongo

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Ulivyo juha umeshindwa hata kuoanisha uhusika wa ubongo wako na matendo yako. Hivi unataka kuniambia wakati unachapa (type) ubongo wako ulikuwa umeganda? Au hujui kuwa matendo yetu huanzia kwenye ubongo kwanza?

Sikujua kama uko kiazi namna hii....eti nimekukamata kwenye "keyboard na siyo kwenye ubongo"....delirious!!!!

Mlenge said:

Funny. Isn't it? How people consider it "freedom of speech" to speak bad of Nyerere while at the same time they fret when other people disagree with their assessment of Nyerere...

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well then tell us your side life is not to agree, but to disagree and it would be impossible to disagree without the freedom to disagree.

Juma Contena said:

ndipo tunapotaka kwenda lakini kuna red tape, sasa tunataka kujua ni wapi hizi nguvu zilipo kwa sababu a lot is being lost without much fuss. hata kesho ukisikia mzungu kakabidhiwa ardhi au mwarabu kapewa sehemu ya wanyapori there is not much we can. Wenyewe on the ground walipojaribu ku protest walichomewa vibanda vyao mioto, walipojaribu kwenda mjini kuandamana walitimuliwa na viongozi wao kusekwa only to be accused of being non residents. kibaya zaidi habari za leo kwetu watanzania kesho ni hadithi za jana whatever happened to those ladies?

sasa unataka watu wakurupuke from no where waishie malupango lazima ujue vita inaaanzia wapi kama kujipanga. Kama ni kusema polisi wamekuwa na nguvu mno au mahakama tumekosa imani nayo. Kwa tanzania ni bora kuanzia chini kuliko juu. Mpaka hapo tutapoweza kuwa na nguvu za kuweka watu accountable at anylevel ndio ukweli tunaweza fanya chochote vinginevyo tunaongopeana na inakuwa kama tunajiburudisha tu kibarazani jamaa awasikii kabisa. Wapo dunia nyingine wao.

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Kwa hiyo yote hapo juu ni kwa sababu "Mwalimu JKN failed us miserably"? Yaani mtu aache urais 1985 mimi nikiwa darasa la 1 halafu mpaka leo 2010 nimemaliza elimu ya juu bado ni Mwalimu tu anatufelisha sana? Hivi kwa nini tunapenda sana visingizo Watanzania - we are failing ourselves miserably!

Companero said:

Kwa hiyo yote hapo juu ni kwa sababu "Mwalimu JKN failed us miserably"? Yaani mtu aache urais 1985 mimi nikiwa darasa la 1 halafu mpaka leo 2010 nimemaliza elimu ya juu bado ni Mwalimu tu anatufelisha sana? Hivi kwa nini tunapenda sana visingizo Watanzania - we are failing ourselves miserably!

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Miafrika......

Nyani Ngabu said:

Miafrika......

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Mitanzania.....

Makanyaga said:

Uko right, lakini nadhani hatuwezi kuwa na vipaumbele vya namna hii. Simple minds discuss people! Wewe kwa akili yako kabisa timilifu unadhani katika hali tuliyonayo, matatizo luluki tunaweza kupata ufumbuzi wake (reliable solution) kupitia mijadala ya kumjadili mwalimu? Upeo wako wa kuchanganua mambo unaonekana ni mdogo sana. Hapa issue ni kutoa hoja, na si kuwa na mda wa kucheza na keyboard halafu unaandika "just anything", chochte kile kinachokuja kichwani. Watu wa namna yako mimi huwa wananisikitisha sana!

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(emphasis added)

This sums up what I would like to say about kumdiscuss Nyerere: so what? Does it mean miaka hii 25 after Nyerere, we have Nyerere a more priority to discuss than what happened in 25 years?

"ordinary minds discuss events" -- which event that happened during Nyerere time that still affect us, in which by discussing it will give us a solution to our current problems? Is there anything we can do about those events?

"but [we!] the great minds discuss ideas" -- Which Nyerere's idea is on the table to be discussed? How is that idea still affects our lives today? I thought zama za "zidumu fikra" zilishasahauliwa? Is there anything we can do about those ideas?

"simple minds discuss people" -- or are discussing Nyerere as a person? How will that solve our current problems? Is there anything we can do about him?

Companero said:

Kwa hiyo yote hapo juu ni kwa sababu "Mwalimu JKN failed us miserably"? Yaani mtu aache urais 1985 mimi nikiwa darasa la 1 halafu mpaka leo 2010 nimemaliza elimu ya juu bado ni Mwalimu tu anatufelisha sana? Hivi kwa nini tunapenda sana visingizo Watanzania - we are failing ourselves miserably!

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Life is not just black and white, tabia za viongozi wa leo wamerithi kutoka kwa baba wa taifa and nothing has changed ever since in terms of policies. Baati mbaya zaidi alituachia wale viongozi wasio na uwezo ndio matokeo yake, sasa tena umlaumu nani leo kama si yeye indirectly. He had a chance to change the course we took but never utilised it yeye kakurupuka tu kuondoka without changing the system. Isn't that enough for us to blame?

Companero said:

Mitanzania.....

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Aaah wapi Miafrika yote iko sawa tu. Juzi juzi nilikuwa Lome...hakuna tofauti na kwingine kusini mwa jangwa la Sahara ukiacha Afrika Kusini kwenye mizungu bwelele

Nyani Mwana Ngabu Wantazania ni tofauti sana na Waafrika wengine. Ili Mitanzania iendelea inabidi iachane na kumtumia Mwalimu kama kisingizio cha kuendekeza utamaduni wa kufeli ni kujifukarisha. Tumeshajua wapi Mwalimu alikosea. Sasa kilichobaki ni kurekebisha na kusonga mbele. Kama Mwalimu alichukua ardhi na kushindwa kuiendeleza basi irudi kwa wananchi walime. Na kama Mwalimu alianzisha makampuni yaliyokufa kutoka na menejimenti mbovu tuyafufue au tuanzishe mengine yenye tija. Tena kama Mwalimu alichukua taasisi za elimu na kuzidumaza basi zirudi kwa wahusika wazikuze.

Huu Mzimu wa Mwalimu inabidi tuupumzishe kwa amani kama tunataka kweli kuendelea kama Taifa!

Nyani Ngabu said:

Aaah wapi Miafrika yote iko sawa tu. Juzi juzi nilikuwa Lome...hakuna tofauti na kwingine kusini mwa jangwa la Sahara ukiacha Afrika Kusini kwenye mizungu bwelele

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Hivi huko Mauritius, Shelisheli au Carbo Verde Miafrika inawalalamikia waasisi ama inajiendeleza kwa kasi?

Juma Contena said:

Life is not just black and white, tabia za viongozi wa leo wamerithi kutoka kwa baba wa taifa and nothing has changed ever since in terms of policies. Baati mbaya zaidi alituachia wale viongozi wasio na uwezo ndio matokeo yake, sasa tena umlaumu nani leo kama si yeye indirectly. He had a chance to change the course we took but never utilised it yeye kakurupuka tu kuondoka without changing the system. Isn't that enough for us to blame?

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Watu wenye mitazamo hii huwa nawauliza: Mjerumani alitawala Tanganyika takribani toka 1885 - 1918, Mwingereza akatawala toka 1918 - 1961, Nyerere akaongoza toka 1961 -1985 halafu urithi wote mbovu wa Tanzania anatwisha mtu mmoja: Mwalimu Nyerere! Hivi na wewe pia ni urithi wa Nyerere - mawazo yako na fikra zako zote ni kwa sababu ya Nyerere? Mwalimu Nyerere ndiye ametupa kina Juma Contena ambao wanashindwa kuiendeleza Tanzania na kuishia kulalamika kuwa eti wameshindwa miserably kwa ajili ya Nyerere? Take responsibility man! Change that system - systems are never changed by blaming people!

Companero said:

Hivi huko Mauritius, Shelisheli au Carbo Verde Miafrika inawalalamikia waasisi ama inajiendeleza kwa kasi?

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Hebu nenda kawasaidie Washona huko Zimbabwe wanaofua noti na kuzianika kwenye kamba.....from a breadbasket to an economic basket case.....pitiful

Nyani Ngabu said:

Hebu nenda kawasaidie Washona huko Zimbabwe wanaofua noti na kuzianika kwenye kamba.....from a breadbasket to an economic basket case.....pitiful

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It has an explanation - even the Greek (economic) tragedy can be explained!