Saint Ivuga
JF-Expert Member
- Aug 21, 2008
- 54,363
- 58,386
ina maaa hotuba kama hizo hatuna tube ya kuweza kuzipata online????
No comment - Kingunge
- Thread starter JoJiPoJi
- Start date
ina maaa hotuba kama hizo hatuna tube ya kuweza kuzipata online????
Augustine Moshi
JF-Expert Member
- Apr 22, 2006
- 2,554
- 1,382
I take issue with Insurgent's idea that by issuing a voter education circular, the TEC has "interfered" in politics. The Church serves the whole person (body and soul, not soul alone). That is why she provides education, health care and other social services. She is called to help the people develop. That cannot be done when the people are being led by corrupt leaders. She has an obligation to teach the people how to avoid electing bad leaders.
It would be a terrible miscalculation if CCM were to continue to fight the Church on this issue of election circular. CCM would harm themselves some more and still loose the fight because they are in the wrong. No amount of pressure would bend the Cardinal or the other bishops on a issue they believe in. And they are clearly convinced that they have an obligation, and not just a right, to educate their followers on how to elect good leaders. I think both Makamba and Kingunge have realised this. They have zipped up! It is the right thing for them to do. One has to know when to cut ones loses!
It would be a terrible miscalculation if CCM were to continue to fight the Church on this issue of election circular. CCM would harm themselves some more and still loose the fight because they are in the wrong. No amount of pressure would bend the Cardinal or the other bishops on a issue they believe in. And they are clearly convinced that they have an obligation, and not just a right, to educate their followers on how to elect good leaders. I think both Makamba and Kingunge have realised this. They have zipped up! It is the right thing for them to do. One has to know when to cut ones loses!
Last edited:
Pdidy
JF-Expert Member
- Nov 22, 2007
- 50,956
- 22,148
Kingunge afyata mkia kwa Kardinali Pengo
Leon Bahati na Mkinga Mkinga
KINGUNGE Ngombale Mwiru amekuwa mwepesi kuzungumzia waraka wa Kanisa Katoliki kuhusu jinsi ya kuchagua viongozi katika uchaguzi ujao kila mara alipotakiwa kufanya hivyo, na wakati mwingine aliita waandishi wa habari ili atoe msimamo wake, lakini jana alimudu kusema maneno mawili tu; "no comment".
Mbali na Kingunge, katibu mkuu wa CCM, Yusuf Makamba, ambaye Halmashauri Kuu ya chama chake ilipendekeza kuwa viongozi wa dini wakutane na viongozi wa kisiasa kabla ya kutoa nyaraka zake, alitoa kauli kama ya Kingunge, hali kadhalika Waziri wa Nchi Ofisi ya Rais, (Sera, Uratibu na Bunge) Philip Marmo.
Mwananchi ilikuwa imetaka maoni yao kuhusu tamko la Askofu Mkuu wa Kanisa Katoliki, Jimbo Kuu la Dar es Salaam, Mwadhama Polycarp Kardinali Pengo kuwa kanisa halitapokea maagizo wala maelekezo wakati wa kuandika nyaraka zake.
Waraka huo ambao umesambazwa na kuuzwa nchi nzima, unaelekeza waumini wa kanisa hilo kuchagua viongozi waadilifu, wapenda amani na wenye kujali zaidi maslahi ya wananchi.
Lakini baadhi ya watu, wakiongozwa na Kingunge wamekuwa
wakiupinga kwa madai kuwa unaweza kuwa hatari kwa amani.
Akiongoza ibada ya mazishi ya Askofu Anthony Mayalla juzi, Kardinali Pengo alieleza bayana kuwa si jukumu la viongozi wa kidini kupokea maagizo na maelekezo ya na wanasiasa wakati wa kutekeleza majukumu yake kwa sababu kufanya hivyo ni kukiuka misingi na maelekezo ya kanisa.
Kardinali Pengo alikwenda mbali zaidi alipotoa maneno yaliyoonekana kumlenga moja kwa moja Kingunge aliposema "wakomunisti siku zote wako mbali na Mungu, afadhali hata ya mapebari wanaamini kuwa Mungu yupo".
Kingunge anajulikana kama mmoja wa waumini wakubwa wa siasa za Kikomunisti na hula kiapo kwa kunyoosha mkono juu tofauti na wanasiasa wengine ambao hushika vitabu vitakatifu vya dini zao wakati wanapoapa.
Mwananchi ilipowasiliana na Kingunge jana kupata maoni yake kuhusu msimamo wa Pengo, alikiri kuwa hana hoja tena katika suala hilo.
"No comment (sina la kusema)," alijibu Kingunge na kukata simu. Kingune amekuwa akisisitiza kuwa waraka huo wa Kanisa Katoliki haufai na kulitaka kanisa liufute.
Na hata kanisa lilipomtaka aeleze ubaya wa waraka huo, aliendelea kusema haufai na kusababisha alaumiwe na viongozi wengi wa dini pamoja na wadau wengine wa masuala ya dini na demokrasia.
Kauli kama ya Kingunge ilitolewa na katibu mkuu wa CCM, Makamba."Sina lolote la kusema katika hilo. Wewe niulize ya CCM.
Kuna kura za maoni za kuwachagua wagombea wa serikali za mitaa," alisema Makamba, ambaye chama chake kiliratibu mkutano na waandishi wa habari ambao Kingunge aliutumia kusisitiza msimamo wake dhidi ya waraka wa Katoliki.
Baadaye Makamba alipozungumza tena na gazeti dada la Mwananchi The Citezen alisema: ÒNdugu yangu kila mtu amemsikia baba askofu, sasa unataka mimi niseme nini? Mimi sibishani naye hata kidogo na siwezi kusema abadilishe msimamo.
''Kimsingi, Mwadhama Pengo ni kiongozi mkubwa sana katika Kanisa Katoliki, siwezi kubishana naye hata kidogo.''
Hoja za kupinga na hata kuunga mkono waraka wa Kanisa Katoliki, zilianzia Bungeni Julai Mwaka huu.
Mjadala huo pia ulijadiliwa kwa hisia tofauti na wanasiasa, wasomi, viongozi wa dini na hata wananchi wa kawaida.
Mzee Kingunge, ambaye ni mbunge wa kuteuliwa na kada anayeheshimika sana ndani ya CCM baada ya kufanya kazi kwa karibu na marais wa awamu zote nne, alionekana kutoa hoja nzito zaidi na hasa alipobeba msimamo wa chama hicho kutaka waraka huo uondolewe.
Kama hiyo haitoshi, CCM kupitia Halmashauri Kuu ya Taifa (Nec), hivi karibuni, ilitoa azimio la kuwataka viongozi wa dini kukaa na viongozi wa dini ili kushauriana katika suala zima la utoaji wa waraka, ikiwa ni njia ya kuepuka kuvunja mshikamano wa kitaifa.
Lakini juzi, Kardinali Pengo alisema Kanisa Katoliki litaendelea kutoa nyaraka zake bila kuomba baraka kwa serikali na hata chama kwa sababu huo ni wajibu waokatika kufanya kazi ya Mungu.
"Waacheni maaskofu wafanye kazi zao na wasifundishwe kazi kwa maana kuandika waraka ni mamlaka kutoka kwa Mungu na si kwa uwezo wao.
Vyama visilazimishe kwamba ni lazima vitoe ushauri," alisema Pengo katika ibada hiyo iliyohudhuriwa na Rais Jakaya Kikwete, mawaziri, wabunge na marais wastaafu.
Kardinalo Pengo pia alikemea wale ambao wanaonekana kuwa mstari wa mbele katika vita dhidi ya ufisadi wakati hata ingekuwa wao ndio walio katika nafasi hizo, wangefanya vitendo hivyo vya wizi wa lami za umma.
Kuhusu kauli hiyo ya Kardinali Pengo dhidi ya vinara wa vita dhidi ya ufisadi, mmoja wa wabunge walio mstari wa mbele katika mapambano dhidi ya ufisadi, Aloyce Kimaro (Vunjo-CCM) alisema binafsi hana uhakika juu ya suala hilo lakini anajifahamu kuwa moyo wake ni safi.
Lakini alimwelezea Kardinali Pengo kama mmoja wa watu mahiri na wanaohitajika sana katika kuendeleza vita itakayowezesha kuwaangamiza mafisadi ili mali za Watanzania zibaki salama
Leon Bahati na Mkinga Mkinga
KINGUNGE Ngombale Mwiru amekuwa mwepesi kuzungumzia waraka wa Kanisa Katoliki kuhusu jinsi ya kuchagua viongozi katika uchaguzi ujao kila mara alipotakiwa kufanya hivyo, na wakati mwingine aliita waandishi wa habari ili atoe msimamo wake, lakini jana alimudu kusema maneno mawili tu; "no comment".
Mbali na Kingunge, katibu mkuu wa CCM, Yusuf Makamba, ambaye Halmashauri Kuu ya chama chake ilipendekeza kuwa viongozi wa dini wakutane na viongozi wa kisiasa kabla ya kutoa nyaraka zake, alitoa kauli kama ya Kingunge, hali kadhalika Waziri wa Nchi Ofisi ya Rais, (Sera, Uratibu na Bunge) Philip Marmo.
Mwananchi ilikuwa imetaka maoni yao kuhusu tamko la Askofu Mkuu wa Kanisa Katoliki, Jimbo Kuu la Dar es Salaam, Mwadhama Polycarp Kardinali Pengo kuwa kanisa halitapokea maagizo wala maelekezo wakati wa kuandika nyaraka zake.
Waraka huo ambao umesambazwa na kuuzwa nchi nzima, unaelekeza waumini wa kanisa hilo kuchagua viongozi waadilifu, wapenda amani na wenye kujali zaidi maslahi ya wananchi.
Lakini baadhi ya watu, wakiongozwa na Kingunge wamekuwa
wakiupinga kwa madai kuwa unaweza kuwa hatari kwa amani.
Akiongoza ibada ya mazishi ya Askofu Anthony Mayalla juzi, Kardinali Pengo alieleza bayana kuwa si jukumu la viongozi wa kidini kupokea maagizo na maelekezo ya na wanasiasa wakati wa kutekeleza majukumu yake kwa sababu kufanya hivyo ni kukiuka misingi na maelekezo ya kanisa.
Kardinali Pengo alikwenda mbali zaidi alipotoa maneno yaliyoonekana kumlenga moja kwa moja Kingunge aliposema "wakomunisti siku zote wako mbali na Mungu, afadhali hata ya mapebari wanaamini kuwa Mungu yupo".
Kingunge anajulikana kama mmoja wa waumini wakubwa wa siasa za Kikomunisti na hula kiapo kwa kunyoosha mkono juu tofauti na wanasiasa wengine ambao hushika vitabu vitakatifu vya dini zao wakati wanapoapa.
Mwananchi ilipowasiliana na Kingunge jana kupata maoni yake kuhusu msimamo wa Pengo, alikiri kuwa hana hoja tena katika suala hilo.
"No comment (sina la kusema)," alijibu Kingunge na kukata simu. Kingune amekuwa akisisitiza kuwa waraka huo wa Kanisa Katoliki haufai na kulitaka kanisa liufute.
Na hata kanisa lilipomtaka aeleze ubaya wa waraka huo, aliendelea kusema haufai na kusababisha alaumiwe na viongozi wengi wa dini pamoja na wadau wengine wa masuala ya dini na demokrasia.
Kauli kama ya Kingunge ilitolewa na katibu mkuu wa CCM, Makamba."Sina lolote la kusema katika hilo. Wewe niulize ya CCM.
Kuna kura za maoni za kuwachagua wagombea wa serikali za mitaa," alisema Makamba, ambaye chama chake kiliratibu mkutano na waandishi wa habari ambao Kingunge aliutumia kusisitiza msimamo wake dhidi ya waraka wa Katoliki.
Baadaye Makamba alipozungumza tena na gazeti dada la Mwananchi The Citezen alisema: ÒNdugu yangu kila mtu amemsikia baba askofu, sasa unataka mimi niseme nini? Mimi sibishani naye hata kidogo na siwezi kusema abadilishe msimamo.
''Kimsingi, Mwadhama Pengo ni kiongozi mkubwa sana katika Kanisa Katoliki, siwezi kubishana naye hata kidogo.''
Hoja za kupinga na hata kuunga mkono waraka wa Kanisa Katoliki, zilianzia Bungeni Julai Mwaka huu.
Mjadala huo pia ulijadiliwa kwa hisia tofauti na wanasiasa, wasomi, viongozi wa dini na hata wananchi wa kawaida.
Mzee Kingunge, ambaye ni mbunge wa kuteuliwa na kada anayeheshimika sana ndani ya CCM baada ya kufanya kazi kwa karibu na marais wa awamu zote nne, alionekana kutoa hoja nzito zaidi na hasa alipobeba msimamo wa chama hicho kutaka waraka huo uondolewe.
Kama hiyo haitoshi, CCM kupitia Halmashauri Kuu ya Taifa (Nec), hivi karibuni, ilitoa azimio la kuwataka viongozi wa dini kukaa na viongozi wa dini ili kushauriana katika suala zima la utoaji wa waraka, ikiwa ni njia ya kuepuka kuvunja mshikamano wa kitaifa.
Lakini juzi, Kardinali Pengo alisema Kanisa Katoliki litaendelea kutoa nyaraka zake bila kuomba baraka kwa serikali na hata chama kwa sababu huo ni wajibu waokatika kufanya kazi ya Mungu.
"Waacheni maaskofu wafanye kazi zao na wasifundishwe kazi kwa maana kuandika waraka ni mamlaka kutoka kwa Mungu na si kwa uwezo wao.
Vyama visilazimishe kwamba ni lazima vitoe ushauri," alisema Pengo katika ibada hiyo iliyohudhuriwa na Rais Jakaya Kikwete, mawaziri, wabunge na marais wastaafu.
Kardinalo Pengo pia alikemea wale ambao wanaonekana kuwa mstari wa mbele katika vita dhidi ya ufisadi wakati hata ingekuwa wao ndio walio katika nafasi hizo, wangefanya vitendo hivyo vya wizi wa lami za umma.
Kuhusu kauli hiyo ya Kardinali Pengo dhidi ya vinara wa vita dhidi ya ufisadi, mmoja wa wabunge walio mstari wa mbele katika mapambano dhidi ya ufisadi, Aloyce Kimaro (Vunjo-CCM) alisema binafsi hana uhakika juu ya suala hilo lakini anajifahamu kuwa moyo wake ni safi.
Lakini alimwelezea Kardinali Pengo kama mmoja wa watu mahiri na wanaohitajika sana katika kuendeleza vita itakayowezesha kuwaangamiza mafisadi ili mali za Watanzania zibaki salama
Pengo siyo wa mtwara!Ni mzee wa Sumbawanga, kijiji cha Mwazye, ila aliukwaa ukardinari akitokea mtwara kikazi!
Insurgent
JF-Expert Member
- Jun 26, 2007
- 469
- 18
\
I had warned in the past on the issue of allowing religious institutions to provide social services. They, with time become the arms of the government to the citizens. Nyerere knew this when he privatized all religious schools and hospitals and made them adopt curriculum which was secular.
Its very important to have TOTAL separation of religion from the government. Separation of church and state is a two-way street. It isnt just about restricting what the government can do with religion, but also what religious bodies can do with the government. Religious groups cannot dictate to or control the government. They cannot cause the government to adopt their particular doctrines as policy for everyone, they cannot cause the government to restrict other groups, etc.
Thus, the separation of church and state ensures that private citizens, when acting in the role of some government official, cannot have any aspect of their private religious beliefs imposed upon others. School teachers cannot promote their religion to other peoples children. Local officials cannot require certain religious beliefs on the part of government employees. Government leaders cannot make members of other religions feel like they are unwanted or are second-class citizens by using their position to promote particular religious beliefs.
Hii issue ya religion being BODY,MIND and SOUL ni katika house of worship au ukiwa peke yako unasali kuomba Mungu wako. Kuchukua mafundisho ya dini na kujaribu kuyaforce kwa wengine sio sawa. Dini siku zote zimeishia kuleta maafa zinapoanza kuingilia kazi za serikali.
Religions dont believe in democracy. They believe in divine revelation of their sect. They are right! Everyone else is wrong, and should do what they say!
Tukumbuke "strong fences make good neighbours" na render unto Ceasar the things that are Ceasars and unto God the things that are Gods.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article3365886.ece
Zawadi Ngoda
JF-Expert Member
- Aug 13, 2009
- 3,804
- 1,871
heri Kingunge asiyeshika vitbu vya Mungu kuliko wale wanaoshika vitabu hivyo na kuapa kuilinda katiba ya nchi hukuwakiwa mafisadi mbnamba moja.
mchajikobe
JF-Expert Member
- Aug 14, 2009
- 2,652
- 1,238
JF kweli ni home of great thinkers but hutakiwi kufikiria mpaka kusahau forums,By the way post nzuri nimeipenda!!
Dally Kimoko
Member
- Jul 29, 2007
- 19
- 0
Hivi huyu mzee kingunge bado yuko serikalini pia ama ni kwenye chama tu?
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