Mambo ya FDLR na Rwanda

KANAL said:

Mkuu jmali ukweli lazima tuuseme hata kama haupendi kuusikia you are not a Tanzanian and you will never being a Tanzanian,nimefurahi uliponiita mtutsi na baadae ukasema wahutu walioko congo ni ndugu zangu ni kweli wote ni ndugu zangu kwasababu naamini binadamu wote ni sawa ndio maana damu ya mhutu hospital anaongezewa mtutsi and vise versa.Nakubaliana nawewe kwamba katika vita ile 1994 walikufa wahutu,watwa na watutsi,ingawa watutsi waliuawa kwa idadi kubwa lakini walipochukua madaraka waliamua kusamehe na kuunda serikali ya wanyarwanda wote.toka mwanzo pointi yangu ni kwamba fdrl wanapaswa kusamehe ili waweze kusamehewa warudi kwao na kuendeleza mshikamano nchini mwao,leo hii rwanda hauwezi kusikia mtu anasema huyu ni mtutsi ama mhutu wanatambuana kwa utaifa wao wanyarwanda tu.

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Nilishasema kuwa mkitaka niwe mhutu au mmasai sina shida as long as mnajadili kwa hoja. Tatizo lenu hoja hamna mnabaki kuita watu wahutu as if uhutu ni tusi fulani hivi huko kwenu, hicho ndicho tunashoshangaa watanzania.
Pili, si kweli kuwa watutsi walikufa wengi 1994, waliokufa wengi ni wahutu. Watutsi walikufa kwa genocide wakati wahutu waliuawa na majeshi ya RPA. Waliochukua madaraka sio watutsi wa rwanda bali watutsi wa uganda na diaspora ambao walikuja baada ya kagame kuchukua nchi. Hawa hawajamsamehe yoyote kwa sababu majority yao walikuwa wamelowea nchi za watu for generations, hawana hata kijiji wanachokijua, let alone ndugu yoyote aliyeuwawa. Watutsi na wahutu "original" kina kizito mihigo and company ndio waliosamehe wahutu walioua ndugu zao, tatizo ni kuwa wahutu hawajasamehe kwa sababu RPA inalazimisha kuwa ndugu zao waliouawa bila hatia walikuwa ni interahamwe/wauaji wa kimbari. Utulivu sio kiashiria cha amani, watu wanaweza kuwa wametulia kumbe wana yao moyoni. Watutsi wamepata haki kwa sababu wauaji wao wameshitakiwa, wahutu hawajapata haki kwa sababu ndio kwanza wauaji wao wanaendesha serikali. Hivi unadhani mhutu aliye-survive kibeho massacre anajisikiaje akimuona kagame?
Tatizo lingine ni hili la FDLR. Hata mushikiwabo na wenzake wanakubali kuwa majority ya hawa FDLR sio interahamwe, wala sio wauaji ndio maana hata wengine wanarudi na kuishi rwanda baada ya kuachana na FDLR. Sasa wewe unayekaa bongo unasemaje FDLR wasamehewe? For what? for being born hutu? for being born refugees? for what exactly? for what crime? Wauaji wote wa kimbari wanajulikana wameshashitakiwa ICTR na gacaca courts, some of them ambao hawajapatikana bado wanatafutwa, lakini orodha ipo. Hakuna FDLR member hata mmoja aliyeshitakiwa ICTR wala gacaca courts, wasamehewe kwa kosa gani? Acha ukabila. Unajua chuki inamtafuna mtu aliye nayo kuliko hata huyo anayechukiwa. Ushauri wa bure huu.

jMali said:

Nilishasema kuwa mkitaka niwe mhutu au mmasai sina shida as long as mnajadili kwa hoja. Tatizo lenu hoja hamna mnabaki kuita watu wahutu as if uhutu ni tusi fulani hivi huko kwenu, hicho ndicho tunashoshangaa watanzania.
Pili, si kweli kuwa watutsi walikufa wengi 1994, waliokufa wengi ni wahutu. Watutsi walikufa kwa genocide wakati wahutu waliuawa na majeshi ya RPA. Waliochukua madaraka sio watutsi wa rwanda bali watutsi wa uganda na diaspora ambao walikuja baada ya kagame kuchukua nchi. Hawa hawajamsamehe yoyote kwa sababu majority yao walikuwa wamelowea nchi za watu for generations, hawana hata kijiji wanachokijua, let alone ndugu yoyote aliyeuwawa. Watutsi na wahutu "original" kina kizito mihigo and company ndio waliosamehe wahutu walioua ndugu zao, tatizo ni kuwa wahutu hawajasamehe kwa sababu RPA inalazimisha kuwa ndugu zao waliouawa bila hatia walikuwa ni interahamwe/wauaji wa kimbari. Utulivu sio kiashiria cha amani, watu wanaweza kuwa wametulia kumbe wana yao moyoni. Watutsi wamepata haki kwa sababu wauaji wao wameshitakiwa, wahutu hawajapata haki kwa sababu ndio kwanza wauaji wao wanaendesha serikali. Hivi unadhani mhutu aliye-survive kibeho massacre anajisikiaje akimuona kagame?
Tatizo lingine ni hili la FDLR. Hata mushikiwabo na wenzake wanakubali kuwa majority ya hawa FDLR sio interahamwe, wala sio wauaji ndio maana hata wengine wanarudi na kuishi rwanda baada ya kuachana na FDLR. Sasa wewe unayekaa bongo unasemaje FDLR wasamehewe? For what? for being born hutu? for being born refugees? for what exactly? for what crime? Wauaji wote wa kimbari wanajulikana wameshashitakiwa ICTR na gacaca courts, some of them ambao hawajapatikana bado wanatafutwa, lakini orodha ipo. Hakuna FDLR member hata mmoja aliyeshitakiwa ICTR wala gacaca courts, wasamehewe kwa kosa gani? Acha ukabila. Unajua chuki inamtafuna mtu aliye nayo kuliko hata huyo anayechukiwa. Ushauri wa bure huu.

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SABABU ZA RWANDA KUTOKUONGEA NA FDLR
1.Ni Genociders
2.Ni waasi wasio kua na nguvu yoyote.
3.Hawana uwezo wa kukamata hata cm 1 ya aridhi ya rwanda
4.waliishapewa karibu rwanda na wengi waliweka silaha chini wanaishi raha mstarehe.

kwa hiyo hakuna haja ya kuongea nao,kuongea nao nikuwapa nafasi wasiyo stahili kwa ni wahalifu tu.

Talkandtalk said:

Hivi unajua idadi ya wa Tanzania walioko Rwanda?

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Uelewa wako mdogo sana, Andiko lako linalalamika kuwa wanaleta threat Rwanda. Watanzania walioko Rwanda hajatufanya tukose usingizi yaani hawana threat kwa nchi.

Swali langu ni kuwa kama hao watu wanawasumbua basi tuwafurushe hapa Magomeni....ona jibu lako linaoana na swali?

Talkandtalk said:

Nyie ni watu wazuri sana kuongea na kubishana, before 1994 ndugu zako walikuwa wakipiga kelele hivyo hivyo, nitakupatia documentary ukitaka, lakini tuliwapiga, mukakimbilia kwa Baba yenu Mobutu, mukaanza ku celebrate kambini kwamba mnarudi, tuliwasubiri mpaka tarehe ya mwisho ndio mko tayari, tuliwafuata huko huko tukawaponda na mavifaa yenu, na lizee lenu Mobutu tukaliondoa.
Sisi ndio tulimweka Kabila, leo hii ooh! we are friends with Kabila, ohhh!!haa huu mchezo hamuujui, na mtashangaa.
Hao ndugu zako hawazidi hata 2000, mmepagawa tu sababu ya presha mnayopata kutoka Rwanda.
Normally ikiwa lazima, huwa hatuombi ruksa, even before hatukujadiliana na Tanzania tulipovuka mpaka.
Just kwa ushauri rudi Rwanda kwenu..kuendelea kupiga kelele ugenini haitakusaidia lolote.

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Ahahahahhaha mzee wa jenosaidi, sasa unataka kuniambia kabila ni mtu wenu? mbona alituomba tuje tuwatandike M23 ambao ni kigenge cha wizi cha kagame? we bwe.ge kweli wewe.
Na mbona hamjajaribu kuvuka mipaka na kuingia Tanzania kama mlivyozoea kwenda congo?

BIMKUDE said:

SABABU ZA RWANDA KUTOKUONGEA NA FDLR
1.Ni Genociders
2.Ni waasi wasio kua na nguvu yoyote.
3.Hawana uwezo wa kukamata hata cm 1 ya aridhi ya rwanda
4.waliishapewa karibu rwanda na wengi waliweka silaha chini wanaishi raha mstarehe.

kwa hiyo hakuna haja ya kuongea nao,kuongea nao nikuwapa nafasi wasiyo stahili kwa ni wahalifu tu.

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1. ni Genociders: sio kweli, genociders wote wamehukumiwa na mahakama ya ICTR kimataifa plus gacaca courts ndani ya Rwanda. HAKUNA mwanachama yoyote wa FDLR aliyeshitakiwa kwenye mahakama hizo. Hakuna kesi yoyote dhidi ya yoyote ndani ya FDLR kwa makosa ya genocide, kimataifa au hata rwanda.
Pili, FDLR imeanzishwa mwaka 2000, mwaka 1994 hakukuwa na FDLR. since 1994 akati wote huo rwanda haikutoa listi ya majina yoyote ya wanaotafutwa kwa genocide ambao wakaja kuwa FDLR mwaka 2000. How are FDLR genociders? Muanzilishi wa FDLR plus maelfu ya former FDLR members have been "integrated" into Rwanda, how is this possible? how come hawakushitakiwa kwanza, what makes FDLR "genociders" so special that they are given houses, plots of land and capital even senior gov posts (Paul Rwakarabije, the FOUNDER AND OVERALL COMMANDER OF FDLR) than wale walioshitakiwa ICTR and gacaca courts?
Third, majority ya FDLR ni watu ambao in 1994 were too young to have committed genocide. so the "genociders" argument does not apply.

2.Ni waasi wasio kua na nguvu yoyote: ex-FAR sio waasi, RPA ndio waasi, RPA kushinda vita hakuwafanyi ex-FAR kuwa waasi. Tukija kwenye suala la nguvu, let me remind you that the same RPA that won in 1994 in Rwanda did so because of the plane downing incident that threw the FAR into disarray, plus RPA had infiltrated soldiers into Rwanda against the Arusha accords, the war was a suprise to the FAR. That's why the same RPA/RDF HAS FAILED since 1994 to wipe out the ex-FAR who are now integrated into FDLR. FDLR armed wing (ex-FAR), if "hawana nguvu yoyote" care to explain how they have REPEATEDLY swatted attacks from RDF since 1994? mpaka Rwanda ikalalamika kuwa UN inawasaidia?

4.waliishapewa karibu rwanda na wengi waliweka silaha chini wanaishi raha mstarehe: most ya waliorudi ni walokuwa watoto sana in 1994 to understand, they don't know better, for them life is better in Rwanda, plus wazee ambao ni too sick to fight. Vijana wanaojielewa wako bado DRC. na ndio maana Rwanda is scared shitless of mere 1500 people! kila siku FDLR, FDLR...mpaka watutsi wanafungwa life sentences for collaborating with 1500 in the jungle? No, FDLR is an idea, an idea that kagame is not a legitimate leader of Rwanda. Actually if i were you i'd be more scared of those former FDLR that have returned to Rwanda than those harmless ones in the jungle. There is no way a child aliyesurvive massacres by RPF in DRC leo akarudi chini ya RPF halafu ukajidanganya kuwa "anaishi raha mustarehe". the best course is negotiations ili muwe na uhakika kwamba FDLR is purely a political movement, otherwise my friend mnaliwa timing!

Omuregi Wasu said:

Uelewa wako mdogo sana, Andiko lako linalalamika kuwa wanaleta threat Rwanda. Watanzania walioko Rwanda hajatufanya tukose usingizi yaani hawana threat kwa nchi.

Swali langu ni kuwa kama hao watu wanawasumbua basi tuwafurushe hapa Magomeni....ona jibu lako linaoana na swali?

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Don`t be stupid kwanza elewa unaongea na nani kabla ya kuanza matusi.
Pili, statement yako haileweki, just ipitie again.

JustDoItNow said:

Ahahahahhaha mzee wa jenosaidi, sasa unataka kuniambia kabila ni mtu wenu? mbona alituomba tuje tuwatandike M23 ambao ni kigenge cha wizi cha kagame? we bwe.ge kweli wewe.
Na mbona hamjajaribu kuvuka mipaka na kuingia Tanzania kama mlivyozoea kwenda congo?

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Kunakitu huelewi kuhusu dunia hii,nakwambia hata mkeo na ndugu yako wanaweza kutumiwa kuua au kukuletea matatizo kutokana na masilahi waliyonayo katika usaliti huo watakao fanya,kuhusu kabila alikua kweli rafiki wa rwanda lakini kutokana na shinikizo kutoka mataifa makubwa ilibidi awasaliti ndugu zake...ona akina kayumba,na wengine wamesahau walikotoka sasa wanaisaliti nchi yao,kwa hiyo sioni ajabu kabila kufanya hivyo kwani wakati ule alikua ameshinikizwa kuondoka madalakani kutokana na wizi wa kura sasa ilibidi awasikilize ili wamwacha madalakani,kuhusu tanzania kuingiliwa na rwanda bila sababu si rahisi kwani rwanda si wehu,lakini mki jaribu kuweka FDLR mipakani mwenu mjue huo utakua mwisho wa usingizi kwa watanzania.

MUKAMASIMBA said:

Kunakitu huelewi kuhusu dunia hii,nakwambia hata mkeo na ndugu yako wanaweza kutumiwa kuua au kukuletea matatizo kutokana na masilahi waliyonayo katika usaliti huo watakao fanya,kuhusu kabila alikua kweli rafiki wa rwanda lakini kutokana na shinikizo kutoka mataifa makubwa ilibidi awasaliti ndugu zake...ona akina kayumba,na wengine wamesahau walikotoka sasa wanaisaliti nchi yao,kwa hiyo sioni ajabu kabila kufanya hivyo kwani wakati ule alikua ameshinikizwa kuondoka madalakani kutokana na wizi wa kura sasa ilibidi awasikilize ili wamwacha madalakani,kuhusu tanzania kuingiliwa na rwanda bila sababu si rahisi kwani rwanda si wehu,lakini mki jaribu kuweka FDLR mipakani mwenu mjue huo utakua mwisho wa usingizi kwa watanzania.

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Acha vitisho. Hao FDLR kwa nini RDF wameshindwa kuwapiga mpaka sasa? operesheni zote zile za miaka 2000 mbona hazikufua dafu? Tanzania hatupendi FDLR wawe na silaha, lakini usitake kudanganya watu hapa, RDF HAWAWEZI KUWAPIGA FDLR!

jMali said:

Acha vitisho. Hao FDLR kwa nini RDF wameshindwa kuwapiga mpaka sasa? operesheni zote zile za miaka 2000 mbona hazikufua dafu? Tanzania hatupendi FDLR wawe na silaha, lakini usitake kudanganya watu hapa, RDF HAWAWEZI KUWAPIGA FDLR!

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Operation Za kuwapiga FDLR zimesitishwa mpaka SADC Watoe tamko. Source: BBC

jMali said:

Acha vitisho. Hao FDLR kwa nini RDF wameshindwa kuwapiga mpaka sasa? operesheni zote zile za miaka 2000 mbona hazikufua dafu? Tanzania hatupendi FDLR wawe na silaha, lakini usitake kudanganya watu hapa, RDF HAWAWEZI KUWAPIGA FDLR!

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wewe ushabiki tu! waulize FDLR watakueleza mziki wa RDF,unafikiri zaidi ya FDLR 10000 kurudi nyumbani ilikua hiari yao, uliza vizuri.

JustDoItNow said:

Hacha upuuzi. unakataa nini na kukubali nini? Habyarimana aliuwawa na akina kagame. Na yeye alikuwa yuko tayari kwa mazungumzo. Sasa kwanini walimuua wakati mlikuwa kwenye mazungumzo? Subirini rais yeyote atakayekuja TZ lazima atawatia kichapo tu.
Hapo hamna mjadara. Nyie ni kero. Na kagame tutamtoa hapo tumuweke mwingine.

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jMali nakupongeza sana kama huyu d.wanzi ndio Tariq Aziz wako. Kazi kweli kweli.

jMali said:

1. ni Genociders: sio kweli, genociders wote wamehukumiwa na mahakama ya ICTR kimataifa plus gacaca courts ndani ya Rwanda. HAKUNA mwanachama yoyote wa FDLR aliyeshitakiwa kwenye mahakama hizo. Hakuna kesi yoyote dhidi ya yoyote ndani ya FDLR kwa makosa ya genocide, kimataifa au hata rwanda.
Pili, FDLR imeanzishwa mwaka 2000, mwaka 1994 hakukuwa na FDLR. since 1994 akati wote huo rwanda haikutoa listi ya majina yoyote ya wanaotafutwa kwa genocide ambao wakaja kuwa FDLR mwaka 2000. How are FDLR genociders? Muanzilishi wa FDLR plus maelfu ya former FDLR members have been "integrated" into Rwanda, how is this possible? how come hawakushitakiwa kwanza, what makes FDLR "genociders" so special that they are given houses, plots of land and capital even senior gov posts (Paul Rwakarabije, the FOUNDER AND OVERALL COMMANDER OF FDLR) than wale walioshitakiwa ICTR and gacaca courts?
Third, majority ya FDLR ni watu ambao in 1994 were too young to have committed genocide. so the "genociders" argument does not apply.

2.Ni waasi wasio kua na nguvu yoyote: ex-FAR sio waasi, RPA ndio waasi, RPA kushinda vita hakuwafanyi ex-FAR kuwa waasi. Tukija kwenye suala la nguvu, let me remind you that the same RPA that won in 1994 in Rwanda did so because of the plane downing incident that threw the FAR into disarray, plus RPA had infiltrated soldiers into Rwanda against the Arusha accords, the war was a suprise to the FAR. That's why the same RPA/RDF HAS FAILED since 1994 to wipe out the ex-FAR who are now integrated into FDLR. FDLR armed wing (ex-FAR), if "hawana nguvu yoyote" care to explain how they have REPEATEDLY swatted attacks from RDF since 1994? mpaka Rwanda ikalalamika kuwa UN inawasaidia?

4.waliishapewa karibu rwanda na wengi waliweka silaha chini wanaishi raha mstarehe: most ya waliorudi ni walokuwa watoto sana in 1994 to understand, they don't know better, for them life is better in Rwanda, plus wazee ambao ni too sick to fight. Vijana wanaojielewa wako bado DRC. na ndio maana Rwanda is scared shitless of mere 1500 people! kila siku FDLR, FDLR...mpaka watutsi wanafungwa life sentences for collaborating with 1500 in the jungle? No, FDLR is an idea, an idea that kagame is not a legitimate leader of Rwanda. Actually if i were you i'd be more scared of those former FDLR that have returned to Rwanda than those harmless ones in the jungle. There is no way a child aliyesurvive massacres by RPF in DRC leo akarudi chini ya RPF halafu ukajidanganya kuwa "anaishi raha mustarehe". the best course is negotiations ili muwe na uhakika kwamba FDLR is purely a political movement, otherwise my friend mnaliwa timing!

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LOCO:loco::loco::loco:

Duuuuu??

murutongore yo back we missed u. jMali has been poisoning people here..

Talkandtalk said:

jMali
1:M23 ni kundi la askari wa kitutsi toka jeshi la wananchi wa DRC, FARDC, waliojitenga ili kupambana na serikali.😛oa😛oa
2:FDRL ni masalia ya wanajeshi halali wa serikali halali ya Rwanda chini ya juvenal Habyarimana;
(uhalali as per your description does not apply to Habyarimana kumbuka nayeye aliipindua serikali halali ya Kayibanda, kwanini iwe halali kwake ila yeye akipinduliwa isiwe halali?? hahah
3.Rwanda vile vile haina tatizo lolote la wanachama wa FDLR kurudi Rwanda endapo tu wataacha kuwa wanachama wa FDLR. In fact Rwanda imeweka programu maalum kwa ajili ya wanachama wa FDLR wanaotaka kuasi chama chao na kurudi Rwanda, watakaporudi watapewa viwanja, nyumba, mafunzo ya ujasiriamali, fedha za kuanzia maisha etc,😛oa😛oa
4.FDLR kwa kiasi fulani ni kama ANC; duu! kwa hiyo Bagosora anastahili kupewa heshima kama Desmond Tutu hivi hahah!

Apart from your Ideology ambayo inajulikana, lakini nakubaliana nawewe on some point, kweli kuipiga FDRL sio kazi rahisi as it was for M23.
FDRL wako mapolini, wengi wanaishi na familia zao they are not organized, Waziri wa mambo ya nje Rwanda, juzijuzi alikiri kwamba FDRL does not pose military threat to Rwanda; ila tatizo ni Genocide propaganda wanazoeneza kwenye maeneo haya wakitumia njia mbali mbali ikiwemo mitandao ya kijamii kama jamiiforums;We know this is one of their strategy and they been recruiting people to work for them;
It is the duty of Rwandan government to make sure that innocent civilians ambao wameshikiliwa matekwa na FDRL wanapata nafasi ya kurudi kwao.
Kumbuka kuna watoto wadogo wasiojuwa lolote kuhusu siasa, unadhani nimaisha gani yanayowasubiri hapo mbele bila elimu, bila matibabu n.k
Ingekuwa bora kama kweli FDRL wanampango wakuwa kikundi cha siasa, warudi Rwanda then siasa waifanyie nchini mwao.
Kama kweli wana program nzuri dhidi ya nchi then wananchi watawachagua:
Kumbuka hapa tunaongelea kundi la watu wasiozidi 4000, ambao hawafiki hata 1% of Rwandese population so it is hard kufuata masharti yao, uache yale ya 12 millions zilizo kuchagua.
Lastly, jamani DRC haiwataki,juzijuzi wale waliohamishiwa Kisangani, Polisi ilibidi iingile kati wananchi waliingia barabarani kuonyesha hasira zao, hawapendwi, jamaa wanaroho mbaya na wamefanya maovu mengi tu.

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we nae ni mwana propaganda?

Kobello said:

That's a huge problem. Propaganda zikiwa hazina nafasi nyumbani, huwa zinapigwa ugenini.
Mbona Tanzania tunamkosoa rais openly? Hata South, Kenya, Uganda ....

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Sio Kenya.

Kenya kuna kijana kafungwa mwaka mmoja jela kwa kuandika kwenye mitandao kwamba Rais Kenyatta Hajakomaa. Yaani kama vile Mwalimu alivyombia JK.

beth said:

murutongore yo back we missed u. jMali has been poisoning people here..

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Muanzilishi wa FDRL kapewa ukuu wa Magereza Rwanda? YES OR NO?

Talkandtalk said:

Just for your information!RPF ilipigania WanyaRwanda warudi kwao kwani serikali iliyokuwepo ilikuwa haitaki warudi;na alikuwa anatoa the same reason kama unazotoa hapa, eti hakukuwa na resources?really? who is entitled to the nation resources? WanyaRwanda wote wana haki sawa kwenye resources za nchi, hivyo sio haki kubakisha some of them out as refugees, on the otherside sasa hivi hawa wanabembelezwa warudi tu share the little we have, na tusaidiane kuendeleza nchi yetu.
hapo kwenye red naona umekuwa touched sana, hahhhhhhhhh!kumbuka it was you, uliyetoa ufafanuzi kuwa FDRL ni mabaki ya askali wa Habyarimana, si ndio?
Sasa ni sili kuwa majeshi ya Habyarimana yalipigwa?...najua inakuuma sana lakini that what happened.
Sasa tumepigana, wakashindwa, wakajaribu kujiorganize tukawapiga tena, then leo ndio wanakuja eti wanataka kuweka masharti ya jinsi ya kurudi?? That`s funny...
Being RPA is not an insult to me, manake jeshi hilo lina credibility kubwa sana barani Africa not only in Rwanda;this can be proved by Darfur residents and Central Africans.

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FDRL ilikuwapo 1994 au ilianzishwa 2000?

Watanzania Dr slaa anawafaa.. Hamna blah blah ni kazi tu. Acheni maneno mengi kazini ndo msingi Wa maendeleo. Sio kama wengi wenu ni madalali tu( rent seeking economy). Hata viongozi wengi wanategemea udalali sio kufanya kazi ili walete maendeleo

beth said:

Watanzania Dr slaa anawafaa.. Hamna blah blah ni kazi tu. Acheni maneno mengi kazini ndo msingi Wa maendeleo. Sio kama wengi wenu ni madalali tu( rent seeking economy). Hata viongozi wengi wanategemea udalali sio kufanya kazi ili walete maendeleo

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Mbona tumeendelea kuliko wanyarwanda?