Malaysia Airlines passenger jet reportedly shot down in Ukraine

[Kongosho]

almost kama washatangaza vita, cold war, kidogo tu itakuwa ww3

Hao wachunguzi wa 'kimataifa' wanatokea UN au nchi gani?...hivi wewe unadhani kwenye situation kama hiyo kuna cha kumuamini 'mchunguzi wa kimataifa'?...hiyo ni vita kaka...hakuna masharti wala vigezo wala kuchagua silaha wala kuaminiana' mchunguzi aweza kuwa spy...

 

[nyumba kubwa]

Google...hiyo iko online...hata waasi wa Libya walisaidiwa...

International politics hizo...

Uthibitisho plz

 

[Meela]

What is your evidence that the black box was sent to Moscow, if at all it has been recovered by the rebels? And what is the 'civilized world' you are referring to? How many acts like those have been committed by your so-called civilized world? To remind you sometime back the American navy downed an Iranian civilian passenger plane in the Gulf. They simply said it was a mistake and no big deal was made about the incident by the Western press. Just because most of the passengers were Iranians. Lesser human beings. I don't understand why the Ukrainian military is completely excluded from the possibility of having downed the plane. They have the same military equipment from Russia. At least they should investigate before making definite conclusions.

In civilized world, nations admit their deeds even when they are not acceptable. That is why when the US downed an Iranian plane, they did not deny it because as a civilized society they could not deny what they did. They said it was a mistake, which might be debatable, but the bottom line is to accept the fact that they caused the plane to crash. Now look to this uncivilized Russia & Co. They are formulating all avenues of fooling people that they did not do it. Shame on them. I believe they never knew it was a passenger plane but persistent denial dents their already eroded credibility. Or could it be that they have nothing to lose therefore they don't mind saying anything?

 

[ndiuka]

[h=1]Malaysia Flight MH17 May Have Been Escorted By Ukrainian Su-27 Fighter Jets[/h]

• 
  

Ukraine MoD



There are still too many unanswered questions about the downing of Malaysia Airlines MH17 over eastern Ukraine on July 17, 2014. Among them one of the most important deals with the possible error made by the operator inside the SA-11 “Gadfly” (“Buk”) TELAR (transporter erector launcher and radar) who did fire one or more missiles against a civilian plane. Indeed, the operators inside the Buk could “read” the Boeing 777′s altitude and transponder and could easily identify the civilian plane en route from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur flying at FL300 inside the eastern Ukraine’s airspace.
Why did they mistake a large civilian plane for a smaller Ukrainian Air Force surveillance plane?
Just a matter of poor training?
Iranian defense expert Babak Taghvaee believes the mistake was caused by the fact the Malaysian Boeing 777 was escorted over eastern Ukraine. Taghvaee is always very well informed and an extremely reliable source.
Therefore, after he provided some details about this activity of the Ukrainian Air Force on ACIG forum thread about the war in Ukraine, we contacted him for some more insight.
Here’s what he wrote to us:
“When the Crimea crisis began, the Ukrainian Air Force air command center quickly forward deployed six Su-27s to the Kulbakino AB. Since beginning of the crisis and the Russia intervention, the 831st TAB has the important task to provide air defense as well as security of whole country. Six fully armed Flankers have always been in the sky especially when the other Ukrainian Air Force airplanes such as transporters and attackers like Fulcrums and Rooks were in the East of Ukraine,” explains Taghvaee.
“But when the Su-25M1 was shot down by the Russia Air Force 6969th AB’s MiG-29 on Jul. 16, the situation and condition became more critical than previous days and more Su-27 sorties were conducted to confront Russian MiG-29s. I believe those two Su-27s were not in sky just for standard practice in that day [Jul. 17], I believe they were involved in HAVCAP (High Asset Value Combat Air Patrol) mission sortie in that day.”
In other words: Since the Russian interceptors had downed a Su-25 on the previous days, the Ukrainian escorted all military and civil flights over eastern Ukraine on Jul. 17. Including MH17.
“During the UEFA 2012, the 831st TAB and its Flankers had same role, during those competitions they had duty to escort the airliners in FL330 and other routes in case emergency. They played same role during the Sochi Winter Olympics in Russia. They were airborne and they even escorted a hijacked airplane. They were also ready to provide security of all passenger airplanes over Ukraine. They are now following same procedure and they could protect all of the airplanes over Ukraine in-front of Russians since Jul 16.”
Provided the Su-27s were really escorting or (more likely) watching from their CAP station many, if not all, civil flights over Eastern Ukraine for the first time ever on July 17, in the wake of the downing of the Su-25, the operators inside the Buk may have mistaken the Boeing 777 shadowed by or near two Flankers for a high-value plane of the Ukrainian Air Force.
On their radar screens, the sight of a large plane with two accompanying (or circling in CAP not too far away) fighter jets was completely new and may only mean the Ukrainians were escorting an important plane. And that would be the reason why they downed it without spending too much time analyzing its transponder code and altitude.

[UPDATE 9:05 EDT] Russia's Defense Ministry claims that a Ukrainian warplane flew within three miles of Malaysia flight MH17.

 

[nyumba kubwa]

Kuna universal definition ya civilization? If yes which country in this world is civilized and why?

Kuna tofauti gani ya kukiri na kutokiri once tukio limeshatokea?

Will it bring the lives of 200+ passengers back?

In civilized world, nations admit their deeds even when they are not acceptable. That is why when the US downed an Iranian plane, they did not deny it because as a civilized society they could not deny what they did. They said it was a mistake, which might be debatable, but the bottom line is to accept the fact that they caused the plane to crash. Now look to this uncivilized Russia & Co. They are formulating all avenues of fooling people that they did not do it. Shame on them. I believe they never knew it was a passenger plane but persistent denial dents their already eroded credibility. Or could it be that they have nothing to lose therefore they don't mind saying anything?

 

[maguzumasese2005]

Futilia mbali wapestina mambuZi kabisa hayo

Mungu akuongoze hujui ulisemalo.

 

[Elungata]

Palestine ni wakuuliwa tu wanaleta kelele tu na mambo yao ya adhana..futilia mbai kabisa

nasikia wateule wa mungu wako 25 wameuawa hapo gaza,huyo mungu wako alikuwapi?amelewa,amelala ama alikua anafanya matusi mpaka wateule wake wanapigwa marisasi?

 

[Bavaria]

Ndege za Malaysia zinamkosi sana, napata picha hasara itakayokuja kutengeneza kutokana na kukimbiwa na wateja.

Ingeangushwa British Airways au American Airways au Virgin Atlantis tungesikia mayowe dunia nzima.

 

[Bavaria]

Nina uhakika 100% Hii sio move ya Puttin

 

[RRONDO]

Hivi Putin alipue ndege ya.abiria ili iweje???!! Yaani watu wazima mnasoma ----- wa magazeti ya.Ulaya.na.US mnakimbia kutoa povu eti Putin ameua RAIA KWENYE NDEGE!!! WHY SHOULD.RUSSIA DO THIS WHYY??? WHAT IS THE MOTIVE.BEHIND THIS!!!!

ushawahi kusikia KOREAN AIRLINER iliokuwa shot down by russian fighter jet?? hayo mambo huwa yanatokea

 

[Ukweli1]

THE field is filled with bodies. One has on jeans, but no shoes. A second is in a polo shirt and grey socks, one of which is charred. A third wears blue trousers, but your correspondent cannot see the face, smashed as it is under the wreckage of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17.


Eastern Ukraine has been at war for nearly three months. At first the violence came at a slow drip that few thought could turn into a torrent. Now 298 people-283 passengers and 15 crew-have died in an instant, their deaths seemingly the work of a sophisticated surface-to-air missile.


Passengers onboard Flight 17 had made themselves comfortable for the long journey from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur. One, in black leggings, now rests next to a black duffle bag, which is somehow intact. A green luggage strap lies in the grass like a snake. Someone comments on the smell: acrid, heavy. Only death smells this way.


"We thought that they were bombing us," says Natalia, from the nearby village of Grabovo, referring to the Ukrainian forces who skirmish almost daily with pro-Russian separatists in surrounding towns. The passengers fell, one fighter stationed here says, "from incredible heights". As they came down, many were "undressed by the air". One victim somehow kept his black shirt on, but lost half of his face. A can of Gillette shaving cream is wedged under his back. Nearby lie the makings of a holiday: an Avis rent-a-car receipt, a postcard, a toiletry kit with face-wash and a blue and white toothbrush. A pair of chocolate bars with macadamia nuts lie in the grass.


The rescue workers mark the bodies' locations with bits of white cloth tied to stakes. These men do what they can to find all of the corpses, but the space is vast and the light is short. The only buildings in the area are a chicken factory on one edge of the field, and a stretch of small country homes that begin on the other edge, not far from the smouldering wreckage around the plane's engine. The firefighters try to extinguish the blaze, but it takes a while-their hose has holes and spews water like little geysers. They were not ready for this. "Nothing has happened here for 30 years," says one rebel, a local man who goes by the nickname "Tuna".


A dead boy of about ten years old lies with his face frozen in fear. He has one shoe left on, and patterned socks. He is still strapped to his mangled blue chair, the belt tight across his lap.


It begins to rain, but only lightly. The mosquitos emerge, and the dogs too, barking in the distance. Clusters of rebel fighters grow thicker along the roads. They are in shock. "This is not a disaster," says a local commander called Aleksey, "it is Hell." The orange glow of ordnance flickers over a hillside on the horizon.
Flight MH17: “This is not a disaster. It is Hell” | The Economist

 

[concrete15]

Usituandikie utumbo wako hapa.
Nini ukijuacho wewe mshamba tu!

We unadhani mechi ya mpira wa soksi huu.

Mnfnssssss!
Nyambafff kabisa.

Wale wale asanteeeeeeeee

 

[kahtaan]

Wale wale asanteeeeeeeee

Sasa ndio umeandika nini hapa!

Hizi kwaya za makanisani zinawaharibu vichwa vibaya sana.

 

[kahtaan]

Satanic verses zimekuvuruga unaharisha tu kama bata mzinga

Unajiita Kigogo wakati mungu wako alitundikwa kwenye hichohicho Kigogo.
Sasa huko ndiko kuonyesha mapenzi kigalatia au?
Manake na yale mamsalaba mnayovaa Shingoni eti mnajikumbusha kifo chake!

Yaani nyie viumbe wa ajabu sana.
Mapenzi yenu ya ajabu sana.
Hata huyo mnaemuabudu pia kazi ni ile ile.

Eti na yeye ALIMPENDA sana MWANAE WA PEKEE Akaamua KUMTOA KAFARA AUWAWE!
Tena KIFO cha LAANA Cha MSALABA!

Yaani kupendana kwenu ni HATARI TUPU.

Yaani we kosa PADRI akupende! Lzm akufanyie ule mchezo wa KIKRISTO halafu awe anakutoa pepo KILA AKIKUPENDA!

Mmesha laanika nyie makafiri. Mnachosubiri ni ADHABU TU.

 

[steyn]

Mkuu Mahmood hizo ndio zile dictionary za kutoka Vatican ambazo uongo na ubakaji wa watoto wadogo MAANA yake ni IBADA!

Hawa makafiri ni viumbe wa ajabu kuliko majinni.

Majinni yanauajabu gani kwako,ilhali yanakulala weye.

 

[kahtaan]

Majinni yanauajabu gani kwako,ilhali yanakulala weye.

Si unaona sasa!
Mimi niliposema kuwa majinni mnawashinda kwa laana.
Wewe umekuja kudhihirisha hapa kuwa haya ajabu yyt.

Nyie makafiri mlilaaniwa tokea kwa yule aliyepigwa misumari inch 12 msalabani.

Na ile laana mmerithi mpaka nyie vikojozi msio jitambua.

Tunawaombea muamke kiakili. Lkn wengi wenu mtakufa MAKAFIRI TU.

Na makao ya kafiri ni JAHANNAMU. na HATOKI TENA!!

 

[Ruge Opinion]

In civilized world, nations admit their deeds even when they are not acceptable. That is why when the US downed an Iranian plane, they did not deny it because as a civilized society they could not deny what they did. They said it was a mistake, which might be debatable, but the bottom line is to accept the fact that they caused the plane to crash. Now look to this uncivilized Russia & Co. They are formulating all avenues of fooling people that they did not do it. Shame on them. I believe they never knew it was a passenger plane but persistent denial dents their already eroded credibility. Or could it be that they have nothing to lose therefore they don't mind saying anything?

The plane came down on Ukrainian territory and a known combat zone where both the Ukrainian army and the rebels are operating. How did the Americans and the West determine within minutes that it was Russia and the rebels who were responsible? Why not the Ukrainian army? In any case Russia cannot be blamed for every deed committed by the rebels. How many countries have Russian, American or British made weapons? Even Boko Haram and Al-Shabaab have weapons made by Western countries. For example, is the West responsible for the acts of terror being perpetrated by the terrorists/rebels in Libya who they supported to bring down Gaddafi? The noise being made by the Western media is propaganda war against Russia. It is not based on verifiable facts.

 

[Herbalist Dr MziziMkavu]

LONDON (AP) -- "What exactly are they trying to hide?" President Barack Obama asked Monday as he demanded that Ukrainian rebels give investigators access to the wreckage of the downed jetliner.

The answer is: potentially a lot.
Aviation and defense experts say the victims' bodies could contain missile shrapnel. Chemical residue on the plane could confirm the type of weapon that brought down Malaysia Airlines Flight 17. And the location of the wreckage could yield information on how the attack unfolded.

The black boxes could offer vital clues as well. The cockpit voice recorder would record the bang of a missile. The data recorders, which register altitude and position, would be able to tie that information to the timing of a known missile launch in the area.

"You can effectively backtrack and give a relatively high degree of confidence in the location where that missile took off from," said a Manchester, England-based aviation industry consultant, Chris Yates. "If that location happens to be in rebel-held territory, which we all suspect it is, that would be the first point where you could point the finger of blame."

But while anguished families waited to take possession of their loved ones' remains, and investigators had to wait for the rebels to hand over the black boxes, independent observers warned that the pro-Moscow separatists had tampered with the debris and failed to secure the crash site. And the U.S. and its allies fumed that the rebels are trying to cover up evidence they shot down the plane.

Yates warned that the rebels may have already compromised the probe.
"What is gained, of course, is the possibility that whatever evidence remains of a missile strike can be obliterated," he said. "That's the bottom line, I suppose."

In this still mysterious tragedy, for example, the bodies themselves could offer precious clues. A missile from a Russian-made SA-11 mobile launcher, also known as a Buk, would explode outside the target aircraft, hurling shrapnel into the plane. Some bodies might bear the telltale wounds.

"While the stated reasons for removing some of the bodies to a refrigerated train - to protect them from wild animals and slow their decomposition - may be genuine, the bodies, too, are evidence," said Keir Giles, an expert on security at the Chatham House think tank.

Lyubov Kudryavets, a worker at the Torez morgue, told The Associated Press that last Thursday, after the plane went down over eastern Ukraine, a resident brought in the bloody body of a child, about 7 or 8 years old. On Saturday, she said, pro-Russian militiamen came to claim it.

"They began to question me: `Where are the fragments of rocket? Where are the fragments from the plane?'" Kudryavets said. "But I didn't have any wreckage. ... I swear."
Rebel leader Alexander Borodai has denied he and his comrades-in-arms were trying to tamper with evidence, saying the bodies would be turned over to Malaysian experts.

As of Monday, the remains of 282 people had been reported recovered. A total of 298 people were killed in the downing of the Boeing wide-body jet; some bodies may have been all but obliterated.
A team of international observers suggested that some of the evidence may have been tampered with.
At the biggest site on Monday, "we did not see any perimeter security in the place," Michael Bociurkiw, a spokesman for the

Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe, told reporters in Donetsk. The monitors observed that one of the largest pieces of debris - apparently a large cone section - "had somewhat been split or moved apart."
On an earlier visit to one of the smaller impact sites, where the cockpit and beginning of the first-class section lay, the observers also witnessed apparent tampering.

"We observed workers there hacking into the fuselage with gas-powered equipment," Bociurkiw said.
The alternative explanation for the slow pace of examination and restricted access to the site is simply that a war is going on, said Michael Desch, an expert on international security at the University of Notre Dame.

"I think that what people are missing is that this tragedy has taken place in an active war zone - the Ukrainian Army is today operating against Donetsk - and given that, it is not surprising that the rebels are not being as cooperative as they might otherwise be," he said in an email.

Besides that, eastern Ukraine wasn't known as a model of organization even before the conflict began. The rebel groups that have seized control haven't installed civil institutions that could cordon off the site or organize the orderly removal of bodies.
Russia experts like Andrew Weiss at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace in Washington said that sheer incompetence, rather than criminal intent, cannot be ruled out as an explanation for the way the rebels are handling the disaster.

"There's just a lot of chaos on the ground," Weiss said. "Everything being messed up is part of daily life. It's not a highly ordered society the way Switzerland is. It's one thing to say it is part of a big conspiracy ... but it's not clear."
Whether by accident or design, the lack of swift access to the crash site may make it harder to determine who and what doomed

the jet. And persistent doubts could benefit Russian President Vladimir Putin and undermine the push in the West to impose further sanctions against Moscow.
"It's really a mess," Weiss said. "The question is: Does that mess have some political benefits for Russia?"

source: AOL

 

[Koborer]

Why? Is there something they are trying to hide? I suspect so.

 

[nyumba kubwa]

Malaysian Airlines MH17 Was Ordered to Fly over the East Ukraine Warzone

Malaysian Airlines Confirms that it was Instructed to Fly MH17 at Lower Altitude over East Ukraine

By Prof Michel Chossudovsky
Global Research, July 21, 2014

Theme: Media Disinformation
In-depth Report: UKRAINE REPORT


2694
663 14

5081

On the matter of MH17's flight path, Malaysian Airlines confirms that the pilot was instructed to fly at a lower altitude by the Kiev air traffic control tower upon its entry into Ukraine airspace.

"MH17 filed a flight plan requesting to fly at 35,000ft throughout Ukrainian airspace. This is close to the ‘optimum' altitude.

However, an aircraft's altitude in flight is determined by air traffic control on the ground. Upon entering Ukrainian airspace, MH17 was instructed by Ukrainian air traffic control to fly at 33,000ft."
( For further details see press releases at : http://www.malaysiaairlines.com/my/en/site/mh17.html)

33,000 feet is 1000 feet above the restricted flight altitude (see image below). The request of the Ukrainian air traffic control authorities was implemented.

Deviation from the "Normal" Approved Flight Path

With regard to the MH17 flight path, Malaysian airlines confirms that it followed the rules set by Eurocontrol and the International Civil Aviation Authority (ICAO) (emphasis added):

I would like to refer to recent reported comments by officials from Eurocontrol, the body which approves European flight paths under ICAO rules.According to the Wall Street Journal, the officials stated that some 400 commercial flights, including 150 international flights crossed eastern Ukraine daily before the crash. Officials from Eurocontrol also stated that in the two days before the incident, 75 different airlines flew the same route as MH17.MH17's flight path was a busy major airway, like a highway in the sky. It followed a route which was set out by the international aviation authorities, approved by Eurocontrol, and used by hundreds of other aircraft.

It flew at an altitude set, and deemed safe, by the local air traffic control. And it never strayed into restricted airspace. [this MAS statement is refuted by recent evidence]

The flight and its operators followed the rules. But on the ground, the rules of war were broken. In an unacceptable act of aggression, it appears that MH17 was shot down; its passengers and crew killed by a missile.
​

The route over Ukrainian airspace where the incident occurred is commonly used for Europe to Asia flights. A flight from a different carrier was on the same route at the time of the MH17 incident, as were a number of other flights from other carriers in the days and weeks before. Eurocontrol maintains records of all flights across European airspace, including those across Ukraine.
​

What this statement confirms is that the MH17 ‘s "usual flight path" was similar to the flight paths of some 150 international flights which cross Eastern Ukraine on a daily basis. According to Malaysian Airlines "The usual flight route [across the sea of Azov] was earlier declared safe by the International Civil Aviation Organisation. The International Air Transportation Association has stated that the airspace the aircraft was traversing was not subject to restrictions."

That approved flight path is indicated in the maps below.

The regular flight path of MH17 (and other international flights) over a period of ten days prior to July 17th ( day of the disaster), crossing Eastern Ukraine in a Southeasterly direction is across the Sea of Azov. (see map below)
-

The flight path on July 17th was changed.

The flight and its operators followed the rules. But on the ground, the rules of war were broken. In an unacceptable act of aggression, it appears that MH17 was shot down; its passengers and crew killed by a missile. (MAS, ibid)
​

While the audio records of the MH17 flight have been confiscated by the Kiev government, the order to change the flight path did not come from Eurocontrol.

Did this order to change the flight path come from the Ukrainian authorities? Was the pilot instructed to change course?
British Media Fabrications: "Lets Conjure Up a Storm"
British news reports acknowledge that there was a change in the flight path, claiming without evidence that it was to "avoid thunderstorms in southern Ukraine".

MAS operations director Captain Izham Ismail has also refuted claims that heavy weather led to MH17 changing its flight plan."There were no reports from the pilot to suggest that this was the case," Izham said. (News Malaysia July 20, 2014)
​

What is significant, however, is that the Western media acknowledged that the change in the flight path did occur, and the that "heavy weather" narrative is a fabrication.
Ukraine Fighter Jets in a Corridor Reserved for Commercial Aircraft

It is worth noting that a Ukrainian SU-25 fighter jet equipped with air-to-air R-60 missiles was detected within 5-10 km of the Malaysian aircraft, within an air corridor reserved for commercial aircraft.
-

Image courtesy of the Russian Defense Ministry​

What was the purpose of this air force deployment? Was the Ukraine fighter jet "escorting" the Malaysian aircraft in a Northerly direction towards the war zone?

The change in the flight path for Malaysian airlines MH17 on July 17 is clearly indicated in the map below. It takes MH17 over the war zone, namely Donetsk and Lugansk.







CLICK IMAGES TO ENLARGE
Comparison: MH17 Flight Path on July 16, 2014, MH17 Flight Path Over the warzone on July 17, 2014

Screenshots of Flight Paths of MH17 for July 14-17, 2014

The first dynamic map compares the two flight paths: The second flight path which is that of July 17th takes the plane over the Donesk oblast warzone, bordering onto Lugansk oblast.

The four static images indicate screen shots of the Flight Paths of MH17 for the period July 14-17, 2014
The information conveyed in these maps suggests that the flight path on July 17 was changed.
MH17 was diverted from the normal South Easterly route over the sea of Azov to a path over the Donetsk oblast.

Who ordered the change of the flight path?
We call upon Malaysian Airlines to clarify its official statement and demand the release of the audio files between the pilot and the Kiev air traffic control tower.

The transcript of these audio files should be made public.

Also to be confirmed: was the Ukrainian SU-25 jet fighter in communication with the M17 aircraft?

The evidence confirms that the flight path on July 17th was NOT the usual approved flight path. It had been changed.

The change was not ordered by Eurocontrol.

Who was behind this changed flight path which spearheaded the aircraft into the war zone, resulting in 298 deaths?
What was the reason for the change in flight path?

The damage incurred to Malaysian Airlines as a result of these two tragic occurrences must also be addressed. Malaysian airlines has high safety standards and an outstanding record.

These two accidents are part of a criminal undertaking. They are not the result of negligence on the part of Malaysian Airlines, which potentially faces bankruptcy.

Source:Global Research