Is God fair ?

Kiranga said:

Further saying "I don't know jack about this god thing".

Laws are not perfection. Laws are regulations towards perfection.

So if your god has anything to do with law, your god is imperfect.

Otherwise, why would he need laws?

Click to expand...

Uko na nafasi kubwa sana ya kumjua Mungu!
Hadi sasa unachopinga si uwepo wa nature/Mungu/The creator of universe, bali ni ukuu wa hiyo nature/Mungu/the creator.
Je, kwa kuwa Nature ndio source ya ulimwengu, nami nimeamua kuiita Mungu yaani muumbaji wa ulimwengu, je unaweza kukubaliana nami kwanza kuwa Mungu yupo? ...
.back soon!

JingalaFalsafa said:

Uko na nafasi kubwa sana ya kumjua Mungu!
Hadi sasa unachopinga si uwepo wa nature/Mungu/The creator of universe, bali ni ukuu wa hiyo nature/Mungu/the creator.
Je, kwa kuwa Nature ndio source ya ulimwengu, nami nimeamua kuiita Mungu yaani muumbaji wa ulimwengu, je unaweza kukubaliana nami kwanza kuwa Mungu yupo? ...
.back soon!

Click to expand...

You are not answering my questions.

Why would a perfect god need laws?

Kiranga said:

You are not answering my questions.

Why would a perfect god need laws?

Click to expand...

Uwe unajibu hoja baada ya hoja kwenye post. Nimekuliza What is perfection? Hukujibu aje unauliza tena.

Ni hivi Mkuu, kudra, upendo, presence, perfection, and the entire universe ni MATOKEO ya NATURE ambayo ni Laws and Force!
So, coz the source (ASILI) is Laws and Forces, out of laws and forces hakuna kilichofanyika, si benevolence wala perfection, that is to say the UNCONDITIONED UNIVERSE IS NOTHINGNESS/VANITY.

Ninarudia tena hapa, HAKUNA KILICHOFANYIKA ILA KWA ASILI TU (naita Mungu) NA ASILI NI SHERIA NA UWEZO, KWAZO ULIMWENGU ULIFANYIKA, PASIPOKUWA NA Sheria NA Uwezo ulimwengu HAUPO, na hicho unachoita perfection kiko ndani ya ulimwengu, nacho bila sheria na uwezo HAKIPO!
Kama hukatai kuwa NATURE ni Sheria na Uwezo, basi huna unachopinga.

I mean, love, perfection etc like you and me are both God's creatures, both as creatures are subjected to laws and forces.

(Usiwe unaikimbia biblia, walau ungepata nafasi ya kujiuliza 'aliumba vinavyoonekana na visivyoonekana) natania tu Mkuu, usije ukaanza kutumia misingi ya biblia., bado.
Anaita sasa!

JingalaFalsafa said:

Uwe unajibu hoja baada ya hoja kwenye post. Nimekuliza What is perfection? Hukujibu aje unauliza tena.

Ni hivi Mkuu, kudra, upendo, presence, perfection, and the entire universe ni MATOKEO ya NATURE ambayo ni Laws and Force!
So, coz the source (ASILI) is Laws and Forces, out of laws and forces hakuna kilichofanyika, si benevolence wala perfection, that is to say the UNCONDITIONED UNIVERSE IS NOTHINGNESS/VANITY.

Ninarudia tena hapa, HAKUNA KILICHOFANYIKA ILA KWA ASILI TU (naita Mungu) NA ASILI NI SHERIA NA UWEZO, KWAZO ULIMWENGU ULIFANYIKA, PASIPOKUWA NA Sheria NA Uwezo ulimwengu HAUPO, na hicho unachoita perfection kiko ndani ya ulimwengu, nacho bila sheria na uwezo HAKIPO!
Kama hukatai kuwa NATURE ni Sheria na Uwezo, basi huna unachopinga.

I mean, love, perfection etc like you and me are both God's creatures, both as creatures are subjected to laws and forces.

(Usiwe unaikimbia biblia, walau ungepata nafasi ya kujiuliza 'aliumba vinavyoonekana na visivyoonekana) natania tu Mkuu, usije ukaanza kutumia misingi ya biblia., bado.
Anaita sasa!

Click to expand...

Perfection is nothingness, anybwxistencebis imperfection.

You claim god exists, thereforw your god cannot be perfection.

Nimekujibu swali lako.

Na wewe nijibu langu.

Why would a perfect god need laws?

Is he a challenged traffic police?

mwandiga said:

Anaacha yote hayo yatokee ili tujue uwepo wake. Ni wangapi wamekufa kwa kukosa dawa majuzi wakati watu wanaiba mabilioni na wapo wana afya njema. Wangapi wasio na hatia wamekufa kwenye vita wakati walianzisha vita hiyo kwa manufaa yao wananeemeka kwa kiuba madini. It is complicated ukitaka kuelewa kwa undani

Click to expand...

Nimekuelewa mpk natetemeka

La Princesa said:

Nimekuelewa mpk natetemeka

Click to expand...

kwa lipi? ina maana mungu anatesa watu kwa makosa ya wengine ili tumjue km yupo? kwanini yasije mema badala yake yanakuja mabaya alaf tanasema mungu ndo anafamya hvyo?

MWAMFUPE said:

kwa lipi? ina maana mungu anatesa watu kwa makosa ya wengine ili tumjue km yupo? kwanini yasije mema badala yake yanakuja mabaya alaf tanasema mungu ndo anafamya hvyo?

Click to expand...

Una muda wa kusoma? Tembelea link ya hapo chini.

Link Why Does Allah Allow Suffering and Evil in the World? - Muslim Belief - counsels - OnIslam.net

Hakuna mungu.
Upungufu wa frikra ndio unaoendelea kuwafanya wengi kushindwa kuelewa mtazamo wa kisasa ambao una ushahidi mkubwa kuhusu the natural world. Wachache walio elimika ambao wanao amini mungu wana mtazamo mwingine, lakini bado nao wanaogopa...Ignorance of man has created god, and his fear of death has perpetuated his existence...
Wote wanao amini mungu wana fanya hivyo kwa kutegemea faith, which is to pretend to know and accept things you don't know.

Kama mungu yupo, basi ndiye kitu kibaya zaidi hapa ulimwenguni kwa sababu zifuatazo:

1. Kamuumba shetani
2. kaumba magonjwa yote yaliyoko hapa duniani (kwasababu nothing happens without his authority)
3. Anazizarau jamii zingine na kuwapendelea wayahudi (kwa sababu zake mwenyewe)
4. Ana wivu na kuogopa miungu mingine, maana anasema "niamini mimi tuu"
5. Haeleweki na anachochea ugonvi hapa duniani kwa kutuma mitume tofauti tofauti (Musa, Mohamed, Yesu, n.k.)
6. Eidha hana nguvu za kumdhibiti shetani, au amemwacha kwa kusudi ili aendelee kutugombanisha.
7. AMEUMBA ULIMWENGU AMBAO MATESO YANA WEZA FANYIKA (ndio maana mfungua hoja analalamika)


Jamani, imani ya mungu tuwaachie watu wa karne zilizopita...

PlanckScale said:

Hakuna mungu.
Upungufu wa frikra ndio unaoendelea kuwafanya wengi kushindwa kuelewa mtazamo wa kisasa ambao una ushahidi mkubwa kuhusu the natural world. Wachache walio elimika ambao wanao amini mungu wana mtazamo mwingine, lakini bado nao wanaogopa...Ignorance of man has created god, and his fear of death has perpetuated his existence...
Wote wanao amini mungu wana fanya hivyo kwa kutegemea faith, which is to pretend to know and accept things you don’t know.

Kama mungu yupo, basi ndiye kitu kibaya zaidi hapa ulimwenguni kwa sababu zifuatazo:

1. Kamuumba shetani
2. kaumba magonjwa yote yaliyoko hapa duniani (kwasababu nothing happens without his authority)
3. Anazizarau jamii zingine na kuwapendelea wayahudi (kwa sababu zake mwenyewe)
4. Ana wivu na kuogopa miungu mingine, maana anasema "niamini mimi tuu"
5. Haeleweki na anachochea ugonvi hapa duniani kwa kutuma mitume tofauti tofauti (Musa, Mohamed, Yesu, n.k.)
6. Eidha hana nguvu za kumdhibiti shetani, au amemwacha kwa kusudi ili aendelee kutugombanisha.
7. AMEUMBA ULIMWENGU AMBAO MATESO YANA WEZA FANYIKA (ndio maana mfungua hoja analalamika)


Jamani, imani ya mungu tuwaachie watu wa karne zilizopita...

Click to expand...

Mungu hakuwahi kumuumba mtu anayeitwa Shetani..Mungu alimuumba Lusifa malaika aliyekamilika,akiwa amejaaliwa vipaji lukuki...ulafi wa madaraka,kutoridhika na alichopewa,kujisikia ndiyo sababu ya yeye kuitwa Shetani....nimejifunza kitu,shetani alifanikiwa kuwarubuni theluthi ya Malaika kuwa Mungu ni Katili na ni dikteta..so Mungu alifanya kitu kizur sana kutokumuangamiza shetani kwa sababu moja ambayo binafsi nimeigundua...kama angemmaliza-Shetani na Malaika waliomsupport angejenga tabaka na malaika waliobaki upande wake kuwa kile Lucifer alichokuwa akiwaambia ni kweli

Kwanini unadaia Perfection is nothingness kwa hoja ya kuwa any existence is subjected to something else? Hivi unaweza kutuambia ASILI iko subjected wapi na nini?
Nature is subjected to Nature!

Kiranga said:

Perfection is nothingness, anybwxistencebis imperfection.

You claim god exists, thereforw your god cannot be perfection.

Nimekujibu swali lako.

Na wewe nijibu langu.

Why would a perfect god need laws?

Is he a challenged traffic police?

Click to expand...

Kulikuwako na Asili, nayo ni Sheria na Uwezo, na kwazo ulimwengu ulifanyika! Ulimwengu ndio uko subjected to laws and forces which are within Nature! Asili inaitumikia Asili yenyewe, sheria na uwezo ni sehemu za Nature! So, si kweli kuwa Mungu anahitaji sheria, bali ndaniye mwenyewe ni sheria na uwezo.
Anaita sasa.

Mie hapa chenga tu....

PlanckScale said:

Hakuna mungu.
Upungufu wa frikra ndio unaoendelea kuwafanya wengi kushindwa kuelewa mtazamo wa kisasa ambao una ushahidi mkubwa kuhusu the natural world. Wachache walio elimika ambao wanao amini mungu wana mtazamo mwingine, lakini bado nao wanaogopa...Ignorance of man has created god, and his fear of death has perpetuated his existence...
Wote wanao amini mungu wana fanya hivyo kwa kutegemea faith, which is to pretend to know and accept things you don’t know.

Kama mungu yupo, basi ndiye kitu kibaya zaidi hapa ulimwenguni kwa sababu zifuatazo:

1. Kamuumba shetani
2. kaumba magonjwa yote yaliyoko hapa duniani (kwasababu nothing happens without his authority)
3. Anazizarau jamii zingine na kuwapendelea wayahudi (kwa sababu zake mwenyewe)
4. Ana wivu na kuogopa miungu mingine, maana anasema "niamini mimi tuu"
5. Haeleweki na anachochea ugonvi hapa duniani kwa kutuma mitume tofauti tofauti (Musa, Mohamed, Yesu, n.k.)
6. Eidha hana nguvu za kumdhibiti shetani, au amemwacha kwa kusudi ili aendelee kutugombanisha.
7. AMEUMBA ULIMWENGU AMBAO MATESO YANA WEZA FANYIKA (ndio maana mfungua hoja analalamika)


Jamani, imani ya mungu tuwaachie watu wa karne zilizopita...

Click to expand...

A breath of fresh air.

Nimejaribu kusema haya countless times hapa.

Kuna "cognitive dissonance" ya hali ya juu. Uzoefu wangu unaonyesha hata pale wengine wanapoona ukweli wa point ulizozitoa, ambazo ndizo hizo nilizozisema countless times hapa, watu wengine wanakuwa so invested in the god idea (wamekulia kwenye imani hiyo, imani hiyo potofu imekuwa mhimili mkubwa wa maisha yao etc) kiasi kwamba hata wakiona logic ya maneno yako, wengine wataikataa wazi wazi bila sababu za msingi.

JingalaFalsafa said:

Kwanini unadaia Perfection is nothingness kwa hoja ya kuwa any existence is subjected to something else? Hivi unaweza kutuambia ASILI iko subjected wapi na nini?
Nature is subjected to Nature!

Kulikuwako na Asili, nayo ni Sheria na Uwezo, na kwazo ulimwengu ulifanyika! Ulimwengu ndio uko subjected to laws and forces which are within Nature! Asili inaitumikia Asili yenyewe, sheria na uwezo ni sehemu za Nature! So, si kweli kuwa Mungu anahitaji sheria, bali ndaniye mwenyewe ni sheria na uwezo.
Anaita sasa.

Click to expand...

Ukishasema kulikuwepo na asili, unaleta swali la, asili ilitokeaje?

La Princesa said:

Mungu hakuwahi kumuumba mtu anayeitwa Shetani..Mungu alimuumba Lusifa malaika aliyekamilika,akiwa amejaaliwa vipaji lukuki...ulafi wa madaraka,kutoridhika na alichopewa,kujisikia ndiyo sababu ya yeye kuitwa Shetani....nimejifunza kitu,shetani alifanikiwa kuwarubuni theluthi ya Malaika kuwa Mungu ni Katili na ni dikteta..so Mungu alifanya kitu kizur sana kutokumuangamiza shetani kwa sababu moja ambayo binafsi nimeigundua...kama angemmaliza-Shetani na Malaika waliomsupport angejenga tabaka na malaika waliobaki upande wake kuwa kile Lucifer alichokuwa akiwaambia ni kweli

Click to expand...

Ndugu yangu, usemacho hapo umemfanya huyo mungu kuwa mjinga zaidi. Anafanya mambo bila kujua hadhara zake mbeleni zita kuwa nini? Baadae mambo yameharibika ndio anataka kumdhibiti shetani. Hakujua kwamba anacho kiumba kama malaika kitamgeuka mbeleni?

Basi lazima ukubali kwamba huyo mungu hana hizo sifa za kujua kila kitu; hajui mambo ambayo hayajatokea - the future.

Namwomba Bw. Kiranga akupe ufafanuzi zaidi kuhusu omnipotence...

La Princesa said:

Mungu hakuwahi kumuumba mtu anayeitwa Shetani..Mungu alimuumba Lusifa malaika aliyekamilika,akiwa amejaaliwa vipaji lukuki...ulafi wa madaraka,kutoridhika na alichopewa,kujisikia ndiyo sababu ya yeye kuitwa Shetani....nimejifunza kitu,shetani alifanikiwa kuwarubuni theluthi ya Malaika kuwa Mungu ni Katili na ni dikteta..so Mungu alifanya kitu kizur sana kutokumuangamiza shetani kwa sababu moja ambayo binafsi nimeigundua...kama angemmaliza-Shetani na Malaika waliomsupport angejenga tabaka na malaika waliobaki upande wake kuwa kile Lucifer alichokuwa akiwaambia ni kweli

Click to expand...

Swali la msingi halijajibiwa.

Kwa nini mungu mwenye uwezo wote, ujuzi wote na upendo wote aumbe ulimwengu ambao inawezekana huyo shetani au Lucifer akawepo?

Omnipotence ni uwezo wa kufanya yote, omniscience ni uwezo wa kujua yote, omnipresence ni uwezo wa kuwepo pote, omni benevolence ni upendo wote. Hizi ndizo sifa za mungu wenu.

Sasa imekuwaje mungu mwenye omnipotence (anayeweza kuumba ulimwengu ambao Lucifer hawezekani kuwamo) omniscience (kujua ulimwengu ambao Lucifer atakuwami utakuwaje) na omni benevolence (upendo wa hali ya juu kabisa ukiwamo wa kutotaka viumbe wake wateseke ) aumbe ulimwengu ambao Lucifer anawezekana kuwapo wakati anaweza kuumba ulimwengu ambao Lucifer hawezekani kuwamo?

Kama kweli mungu alikuwa na upendo wote, ujuzi wote na uwezo wote, kwa nini aliumba ulimwengu ambao Lucifer anawezekana kuwapo wakati aliweza kuumba ulimwengu ambao Lucifer hawezekani kuwapo?

Pale mungu alipokuwa anaweka misingi ya ulimwengu, kabla kiumbe chochote hakijawa, kama kweli mungu huyu alikuwa na uwezo wote, ujuzi wote na upendo wote, aliweza kuumba ulimwengu ambao Lucifer hayumo na hawezekani kuwamo.

Kwa nini hakuuumba ulimwengu huo?

Kiranga said:

Ukishasema kulikuwepo na asili, unaleta swali la, asili ilitokeaje?

Click to expand...

Labda uwe huelewi neno asili linabeba maana zipi!
Unauliza ilitokeaje, wapi? Laiti kungekuwa na namna iliyotokea, basi hata mahali ilikotokea papo, na hata chanzo kilichofanya itokee kingekuwepo, NA KWA HAYO YOTE ISINGESTAHILI KUITWA ASILI!
Ni hivi, ni kwa asili asili ipo, na ni kwa asili asili inafanya kazi! Nature iko subjected to Nature!
Anaita sasa!

JingalaFalsafa said:

Labda uwe huelewi neno asili linabeba maana zipi!
Unauliza ilitokeaje, wapi? Laiti kungekuwa na namna iliyotokea, basi hata mahali ilikotokea papo, na hata chanzo kilichofanya itokee kingekuwepo, NA KWA HAYO YOTE ISINGESTAHILI KUITWA ASILI!
Ni hivi, ni kwa asili asili ipo, na ni kwa asili asili inafanya kazi! Nature iko subjected to Nature!
Anaita sasa!

Click to expand...

Psychobabble abracadabra.

Hujajibu swali.

Hii ndio style yako ya kukimbia hoja.

Kiranga said:

Psychobabble abracadabra.

Hujajibu swali.

Click to expand...

Nina shaka hujui hata unachouliza, hilo ni tatizo sasa!
Anaita sasa!

JingalaFalsafa said:

Hii ndio style yako ya kukimbia hoja.


Nina shaka hujui hata unachouliza, hilo ni tatizo sasa!
Anaita sasa!

Click to expand...

Tatizo hata hilo huna hakika nalo.