Intellect over emotions or emotions over intellect?

Aisopos · Nov 5, 2019

Nyani Ngabu said:
I’m all for the free flow of ideas and discussion.

But also I like to be informed.

I’d like to hear from both sides. That is, the ex CAG’s side and the government’s side.

I doubt both of them would engage in social media commentary that’s currently going on. And that’s understandable.

I’d like know, first, if the ex-CAG disagrees with the President’s decision. Does he think, like some of you do, it was unconstitutional?

I’d also like to hear from the government. What does it have to say about the allegations? Is there an obscure clause out there that gives the President the power to do what he did?

The only way and place to get answers to these questions is the court of law, where there is established protocol to get resolutions to legal matters.

I think Assad should go to court if he thinks he didn’t get a fair shake.

If the courts don’t have the independence that many people think they don’t have, that will be laid bare and will be further proof, that the charge is true.

Not going to court if he believes he’s been hard done by, for someone of his stature, would be a disservice to all of us.

I doubt he’ll go that far, though.

In general we’re not a highly litigious society.

I expect this issue to be done and dusted, by next week, if not by the end of this week.

Fair enough; ideally this would be the right way to go. Assad himself described the change as 'termination' (of contrct) adding that he expected this to happen. He further explained that his appointment letter had clearly shown legal basis under which he assumed the responsibilities of CAG. He indicated that contrary to his expectations the 'termination' letter did not do the same. This suggests that Prof. Assad believes the decision not to re-appoint him is unconstitutional! Whether he goes to court or not is really difficult to say. Only recently an attempt was made to challenge in court the appointment of AG on grounds that he was not qualified constionally. The case was not only dismissed before hearing but also the lawyer behind it got into problems! Do we need more proof? What is more, in the case of CAG the President himself was also quoted by press reports to have claimed that powers to appoint and fire were inseperable!

Nyani Ngabu · Nov 5, 2019

Kiranga said:
Can the ex-CAG think this was constitutional, while it isn't so, or, in converse, think this unconstitutional while it is constitutional?

Couldn’t tell you. I’m not in his head to know what he thinks and what he doesn’t.

That’s why I want to hear from him and the government.

Also, there is such a thing as not being abke to see the trees from the forest.

Assad presents himself as a god fearing man, who would rather place this matter in the hands if god, rather than engage in a protracted constitutional showdown with the president.

Hahahaa. When has leaving matters in god’s hands ever accomplished anything?

Even men of the cloth, the MLKs, the Ralph D. Abernathys, the Joseph E. Lowerys, the Desmond Tutus and many others, didn’t leave things in god’s hands.

They took it to the streets, they took it to parliaments, they took it to the courts, they took the fight wherever it needed to be taken in order to attain what they wanted.

Even the Pope, not Pope Kiranga. I’m talking about the other Pope. The real Pope. Doesn’t leave his security in the hands of god. He is guarded 24/7 by the Pontifical Swiss Guards.

Looking at this as Assad's fight is looking at this narrowly. The opposition can ooen a court case. Just to make a point.

I’m all for that and I hope it happens.

Assad may have chisen to err on the side of wisdom, and not embarass further an already self embarassing president.

I don’t know about that. That’s just speculation.

After all, he is bound to work with the president again in his new role.

Has he been assigned a new role already? What is it? I’m being serious here.

He does not want to create an enemy in the oerson of the president.

Hmm...that to me sounds like putting expediency above principle.

Not a good look.

Chief · Nov 5, 2019

Kiranga said:
Kuna sehemu ya katiba imeainisha namna CAG anavyoweza kutolewa kazini.

Ni kwa umri, kuumwa, kukosa maadili na kujiuzulu.

Kukosa maadili kunamtaka rais aunde jopo la u uchunguzi. Rais hajaunda.

Assad hajafikisha umri wa miaka 65.

Assad hajaumwa.

Assad hajajiuzulu.

Sasa kaondolewa kwa kifungu gani cha katiba?

My understanding ni kwamba kipengele hiki cha katiba kimewekwa kumlinda CAG kama Rais au mtu yeyote anataka "kumtoa" CAG akiwa kazini, akiwa bado hajamaliza miaka yake mitano ya kwanza, au ya pili. ( Nafikiri ina appy kwa Assad).

Sasa Magu hakuweza kumtoa Assad kwa vipengele vya katiba, kama ukivyoanisha, ni kwamba vyote havi apply. Hivyo option aliyokuwa nayo ni kuacha mkataba wa kazi wa wa miaka mitano ya kwanza ufikie tamati, na yeye asi-exercise option ya ku extend kwa miaka mingine mitano kwani hiyo ni discretion yake. Kwa hiyo "hakumtoa" bali ametolewa na mkataba wenyewe baada ya kuisha.

Nafikiri katiba haisemi mkataba wa ajira wa CAG uandikwaje ndio maana kuna hizo two terms. Ingekuwa vizuri sana kama tungeweza kuona wording ya mkataba huo.

nyabhingi · Nov 5, 2019

Chief said:
Sasa, based on your response above, hakuna connection kati ya kutunga mihula na umri wa kustaafu. Where specifically in the Constitution that prohibits the creation of two five-year terms? We probably are sailing on the same boat, but in this particular case, I do not see where Magu went wrong. I wish I could😊

Mkuu katiba haihitaji kuandika kuhusu two terms,kwa kuweka limit ya miaka 60 na kuruhusu hiyo miaka kuwa adjusted kwa sheria ya bunge it automatically prohibits anything more than that,for that matter...magufuli inawezekana amepotezwa na hicho kifungu cha sheria bila kujua au kwa kujua..

Nyani Ngabu · Nov 5, 2019

Chief said:
My understanding ni kwamba kipengele hiki cha katiba kimewekwa kumlinda CAG kama Rais au mtu yeyote anataka "kumtoa" CAG akiwa kazini, akiwa bado hajamaliza miaka yake mitano ya kwanza, au ya pili. ( Nafikiri ina appy kwa Assad).

Sasa Magu hakuweza kumtoa Assad kwa vipengele vya katiba, kama ukivyoanisha, ni kwamba vyote havi apply. Hivyo option aliyokuwa nayo ni kuacha mkataba wa kazi wa wa miaka mitano ya kwanza ufikie tamati, na yeye asi-exercise option ya ku extend kwa miaka mingine mitano kwani hiyo ni discretion yake. Kwa hiyo "hakumtoa" bali ametolewa na mkataba wenyewe baada ya kuisha.

Nafikiri katiba haisemi mkataba wa ajira wa CAG uandikwaje ndio maana kuna hizo two terms. Ingekuwa vizuri sana kama tungeweza kuona wording ya mkataba huo.

Ndo maana nimesema ningependa hii ishu iende mahakamani maana huko majibu ya maswali mengi tuliyonayo yangeweza kujibiwa.

Humu tuna speculate tu.

Na kama ulivyodokeza, huenda kuna mkataba wa kazi pia.

Je, huo mkataba unasemaje? Unampa mwajiri mamlaka gani? Unampa mwajiriwa haki gani?

Yote hayo hatuyajui.

Raskazimi · Nov 5, 2019

Nyani Ngabu said:
Ndo maana nimesema ningependa hii ishu iende mahakamani maana huko majibu ya maswali mengi tuliyonayo yangeweza kujibiwa.

Humu tuna speculate tu.

Na kama ulivyodokeza, huenda kuna mkataba wa kazi pia.

Je, huo mkataba unasemaje? Unampa mwajiri mamlaka gani? Unampa mwajiriwa haki gani?

Yote hayo hatuyajui.

Post ya kwanza ulisubiri mahakama iamue? Uelewa wako wa katiba na sheria ulitosha kuhitimisha ni anti crusader hysteria lakini anachosema Prof Shivji ni speculation inayoweza kumalizwa na mahakama tu? Mahakama ikiamua ndio tutakuwa tumeconclonclude mjadala au bado tutaruhusiwa kufikiria tofauti? Isipoenda mahakamani hakuna avenue ya mjadala hata ikibidi iwe restricted to constitutional scholars alone since you decided those on the other side of the argument are blinded by hate?

Nyani Ngabu · Nov 13, 2019

Nyani Ngabu said:
In general we’re not a highly litigious society.

I expect this issue to be done and dusted, by next week, if not by the end of this week.

Kiranga

I called it 🤣.

I haven’t heard a peep about it this week!

Gracious · Nov 13, 2019

Kuna baadhi ya wapuuzi wanakuwa wapuuzi square kipindi hiki..huu ni ujinga double square

Yoda · Mar 13, 2022

Fatma Karume amesharudishiwa leseni yake ya uwakili?

Stuxnet said:
Hata anavunja katiba kwani yeye Jiwe anajali? The bloody sucking vampire doesn't give a damn!!

Alimteua Killangi kuwa AG wakati hayuko qualified kwenye nafasi Ile, watu wanapiga kelele wameufyata. Fatima Karume kagutiwa na ku practice usaili wa Mahakama Kuu kwa kesi aliyofungua dhidi ya AG na Rais.

This country is no longer a respectef nation with its norms and rule of law,it is just a banana republic. Tusubiri tu mpaka Rais mwingine no matter when!!

Yoda · Nov 21, 2023

Stuxnet said:
Hata anavunja katiba kwani yeye Jiwe anajali? The bloody sucking vampire doesn't give a damn!!

Alimteua Killangi kuwa AG wakati hayuko qualified kwenye nafasi Ile, watu wanapiga kelele wameufyata. Fatima Karume kagutiwa na ku practice usaili wa Mahakama Kuu kwa kesi aliyofungua dhidi ya AG na Rais.

This country is no longer a respectef nation with its norms and rule of law,it is just a banana republic. Tusubiri tu mpaka Rais mwingine no matter when!!

Kazi inaendelea

Stuxnet · Nov 21, 2023

Yoda said:
Fatma Karume amesharudishiwa leseni yake ya uwakili?

Bado hajarudishiwa, unless una chanzo tofauti

Intellect over emotions or emotions over intellect?

Aisopos

JF-Expert Member

Nyani Ngabu

Platinum Member

Chief

Platinum Member

nyabhingi

JF-Expert Member

Nyani Ngabu

Platinum Member

Raskazimi

JF-Expert Member

Nyani Ngabu

Platinum Member

Gracious

JF-Expert Member

Yoda

JF-Expert Member

Yoda

JF-Expert Member

Stuxnet

JF-Expert Member

Similar Discussions