Inside the Rwanda-Uganda conflict

[Kichakoro]

suppose Both Museven and Kagame put up a clear exist road map say by 2023 that they will not participate in election, and allow Rwandan and Ugandan from all over to contest for presidency. This case will be closed

 

[MOTOCHINI]

Mkuu ungeandika kwa kiswahili ungepata wachangiaji wengi sana

Upo sawa Kwa kiswahili tafsr Isiyo halisi

Hebu nifanye kile ambacho wanasiasa wanafanya daima - wanasema wanaendesha ofisi kwa sababu ya mahitaji ya kawaida. Watu wengi wamekuwa wananiuliza kutoa maoni juu ya mvutano ulioongezeka kati ya Uganda na Rwanda. Kwa kuandika makala hii, ninakubali kwa shinikizo la kawaida. Nadhani Uganda na Rwanda zitaweza kupungua katika vita; kitu nilichoshiriki na marafiki tangu Oktoba mwaka jana na hii ndiyo sababu ni muhimu kwamba nishiriki maoni yangu.

Msimamo wa sasa unatokea wiki moja baada ya Rais Yoweri Museveni kutoa hotuba yenye kusifiwa kwa wakuu wenzake wa Afrika katika Umoja wa Afrika huko Addis Ababa katika kutetea ushirikiano wa kikanda na Rais Paul Kagame alidai kuwa Mwenyekiti wa Jumuiya ya Afrika Mashariki. Kwamba hao wawili wanaweza kuwa karibu na vita inaonyesha umbali kati ya pombe na hatua.

Matatizo kati ya Uganda na Rwanda yanaweza kutatuliwa kwa urahisi kama Museveni alizingatia msimamo wake wa msingi wa kiitikadi, yaani ushirikiano wa kikanda ni muhimu kwa baadaye ya Afrika, na kwamba tofauti kati ya nchi zetu ni ndogo ikilinganishwa na haja ya kimkakati na manufaa ya ushirikiano. Kutokana na mtazamo huu, ikiwa mataifa mawili yana tofauti wanapaswa kutafuta kutafuta na kuwatatua. Tatizo kati ya Uganda na Rwanda - kama ninavyojua - ni kukataa Kampala kusikiliza wasiwasi wa Kigali na / au kuweka malalamiko yake kwenye meza ya kujadiliwa.

Kwa mfano, Rwanda imelalamika kwa Uganda kwa uwazi na kwa uwazi kuhusu kuwepo kwa watu wenye chuki kwa serikali huko Kigali. Inasema watu hawa hutumia vibaya hali yao ya wakimbizi nchini Uganda kwa kuingiza vitendo vya kisiasa dhidi ya serikali huko Kigali. Rwanda imelalamika zaidi kuwa watu hawa (wengi ambao wamesema) wanasaidiwa kikamilifu na akili ya Uganda ili kuwaajiri Wanyarwanda kutoka makambi ya wakimbizi na kuwapelekea DR Congo kwa mafunzo katika makambi ya waasi.

Kigali daima ilitaka na kujitahidi kikamilifu kujadili mambo haya na Kampala. Imekutana na ukimya wa mawe. Badala yake, Kigali imesoma katika vyombo vya habari vya jadi na kijamii kuwa ni serikali ya udhibiti wa serikali ya Rwanda huko Kampala. Tovuti zilizounganishwa na Nyumba ya Jimbo nchini Uganda zinaongoza hii malipo. Baadhi ya wakuu wa usalama nchini Uganda wamesema sawa. Hata hivyo Kampala haijawahi kufanya malalamiko rasmi au rasmi kwa Kigali juu ya madai hayo. Hii imesababisha serikali ya Rwanda katika hali ngumu kuhusu kujibu kwa uvumi wa habari wakati serikali ya Uganda haijawahi kumiliki.

Hali hii ingeweza kukamatwa muda mrefu uliopita. Hata hivyo, juhudi zote za kuanza mazungumzo kati ya nchi hizo mbili zimeharibiwa na Uganda. Jambo kubwa zaidi lilikuwa katikati ya mwaka jana wakati nilifanya kazi na Jenerali Salim Saleh kutuma ujumbe kwa Kigali au kuwakaribisha ujumbe wa Rwanda Kampala kwa majadiliano. Sisi hata tamaa juu ya timu ya viongozi wa Uganda. Nilizungumza na Kagame ambaye kwa urahisi alichagua timu ya viongozi ili kukidhi upande wa Uganda. Katika dakika ya mwisho Museveni mwenyewe alikataa mpango akisema atashughulikia jambo hili moja kwa moja na Kagame.

Mimi mwenyewe nilijaribu mara kadhaa kwa maslahi ya Museveni katika maswala ambayo Rwanda iliiinua lakini yeye pia alionyesha huduma isiyojali au kulipwa huduma au alisema kuwa atazungumza nao moja kwa moja na Kagame, ambayo yeye mara chache alifanya. Hili lilikuwa jambo la kushangaza sana kwa mimi kwa sababu kati ya 2011 nilifanya kazi kwa karibu na rais wa Uganda ili kutengeneza uhusiano wetu na Kigali. Wakati huo nilivutiwa na ujasiri wa Museveni, ujasiri na uangalizi mkakati. Upotevu wake wa baadae usio na ufafanuzi bila ya ufafanuzi unafadhaika lakini pia huangaza.

Wakati Museveni ameahidi kuzungumza mambo haya moja kwa moja na Kagame na yale aliyoyafanya wakati mwingine, hakukuwa na kufuatilia na Kampala. Ninajua kwamba wakati wowote Museveni alipokutana na Kagame, hajawahi kukuza suala la mabadiliko ya serikali na Kigali dhidi yake. Kagame amemwambia Museveni kuwa Uongozi wa Jeshi la Umoja wa Mataifa wa Uganda (CMI) anafanya ka

 

[Herr muller]

Haina haja maana kuna apps za kutranslate unabofonga indigenous lang yako nabonga kijapani simu inatranslate in sound mode so huo ulazima wako tupa kule, alafu siyo kwamba ukiona mtu anajibu kwa kiswahili haelewi kizungu la hasha

Sent using Jamii Forums mobile app

Nothing is as TOXIC as INABILITY TO REASON THINGS OUT

 

[Rasterman]

lwt

By Andrew M. Mwenda

Let me do what politicians always do – claim they run for office due to popular demand. Many people have been asking me to comment on the heightened tensions between Uganda and Rwanda. By writing this article, I am yielding to popular pressure. I think Uganda and Rwanda will most likely degenerate into war; something I have shared with friends since October last year and this is the reason it is critical that I share my views.

The current standoff is happening only weeks after President Yoweri Museveni gave a highly acclaimed speech to fellow African heads of state at the African Union in Addis Ababa in defense of regional integration and President Paul Kagame assumed chairmanship of the East African Community. That the two could be close to war shows the distance between aspiration and action.

The problems between Uganda and Rwanda can easily be solved if Museveni upheld his core ideological position i.e. that regional integration is critical for Africa’s future, and that the differences between our countries are smaller compared to the strategic need for and benefits of cooperation. From this view, if any two nations have differences they should seek to listen to each other and solve them. The problem between Uganda and Rwanda – as I know it – is the refusal of Kampala to listen to the concerns of Kigali and/or put her own grievances on the table for discussion.

For example, Rwanda has complained severally to Uganda both formally and informally about the presence of persons hostile to the government in Kigali. It says these people abuse their refugee status in Uganda by indulging in politically hostile actions against the government in Kigali. Rwanda has further complained that these persons (many of whom it has named) are actively aided by Ugandan intelligence to recruit Rwandans from refugee camps and take them to DR Congo for training in rebel camps.

Kigali has always wanted and actively sought to discuss these matters with Kampala. It has been met with stone silence. Instead, Kigali has been reading in Ugandan traditional and social media that it is the government of Rwanda planning regime change in Kampala. Websites allied to State House in Uganda are leading this charge. Some security chiefs in Uganda have said similar. Yet Kampala has never made a formal or informal complaint to Kigali on these allegations. This has placed the government of Rwanda in a difficult situation on how to respond to media rumors when government of Uganda has never owned them.

This situation could have been arrested long ago. However, all efforts to begin a dialogue between the two countries have been thwarted by Uganda. The most serious one was mid last year when I worked with Gen. Salim Saleh to send a delegation to Kigali or invite a Rwandan delegation to Kampala for discussions. We even greed on the team of Ugandan officials. I talked to Kagame who readily nominated a team of officials to meet the Ugandan side. On the last minute Museveni personally cancelled the plan saying he will handle this matter directly with Kagame.

I personally tried several times to interest Museveni in the issues Rwanda was raising but he either expressed indifference or paid leap service or said he will discuss them directly with Kagame, which he rarely did. This was especially frustrating for me because between 2011 I worked closely with the Ugandan president to repair our relations with Kigali. During that time I was impressed by Museveni’s boldness, courage and strategic foresight. His subsequent loss of interest without explanation is frustrating but also illuminating.

While Museveni has promised to discuss these matters directly with Kagame and which he has done on occasion, there has been no follow up by Kampala. I am aware that whenever Museveni has met Kagame, he has never raised the issue of regime change by Kigali against him. Kagame has told Museveni that Uganda’s Chieftaincy of Military Intelligence (CMI) actively works with Rwandan dissidents. Museveni has promised to verify the claims and end the problem. The last I heard is that Uganda sent one such person to Norway.

CMI has been detaining Rwandan nationals in illegal facilities, torturing and deporting them to Rwanda. CMI accuses these people of spying but has never produced them before courts of law. Neither has Uganda complained to Rwanda about this. Kigali has protested these detentions and deportations formally and informally. Again it has been met with stone silence. Meanwhile Uganda accuses Rwanda of kidnapping and killing Rwandans in Uganda and of seeking regime change but never provides names or any evidence and has never made a formal or informal protest to Rwanda.

I have told officials of Uganda that even if these allegations of kidnappings and killings are true, Rwanda is supposed to be our ally. When an ally behaves like that, you don’t stop talking to them. Israel is an ally of America. On many occasions its intelligence services have been caught either kidnapping people from America or infiltrating US intelligence and stealing highly classified information. These actions by Israel have been a great irritant to the USA, but they have never formed a basis for the break in relations. Recently America was caught tapping calls of leaders of nations among her NATO allies but this did not lead to the break in relations.

Museveni is one of the most strategic minded persons I have read and listened to. I do not think he would preside over the collapse of a strategic relationship with an ally because of such infringements. Such infringements are the reason to dialogue, not break-up. The only conclusion I can infer from his attitude towards Kigali is that either he does not consider Rwanda an ally or he does not think our relationship with her is strategic – or both. I have increasingly come to believe that Museveni sees Kagame’s Rwanda as a threat, a factor I will write about in detail in my next post.

Now here is the slippery slope to war: if Rwanda is convinced Kampala is seeking regime change against Kagame, it will not sit idly and watch. Uganda has enemies too. It follows that Kigali will be driven to aid them. Given the interpenetration of the two societies and government systems, Kampala will finally get the hard evidence of this aid. Thus what begun as empty claims that Kigali is seeking regime change against Museveni will now be fact with evidence!

From my experience dealing with officials of the government of Rwanda, most especially Kagame personally, I have been struck by their desire and determination to build good relations with Uganda. Kagame personally treats good relations with Uganda to be of utmost strategic importance. In my many years working with him on Uganda-Rwanda issues, he has never wavered in his determination to pursue a better relationship with Kampala. Indeed, he has always been willing to bend backwards to get this relationship to work. However, he is not willing do seek a good relationship on his knees.

Museveni has personally told me there is no fundamental problem between Uganda and Rwanda. However, Kagame has serious charges against Uganda, the most serious being regime change. There are other strategic issues of an economic nature but they are not as alarming. Therefore, in trying to repair the relations between the two governments, the first issue to resolve is the accusation of regime change by Kigali against Kampala. But since Kampala’s rumor mill is making similar allegations, Uganda should place them on the table – formally and/or informally. Official silence and informal denials are unlikely to solve anything.

What one gets from Kampala’s attitude towards Kigali is what Batooro call omugayo – despise, under-look, disregard. Yet for all Museveni’s talk of regional integration and other such strategic considerations, Kampala’s attitude towards Kigali only shows he is not willing walk the talk. Uganda exports goods worth $250m per year to Rwanda. Rwanda only exports a paltry $16m. Uganda has over 30,000 professionals and semi skilled people working in Rwanda. Ugandan companies have multi million dollar contracts to supply goods and services in Rwanda, others have made investments there. And Rwanda sends a large number of students to study in Ugandan schools from primary to university, not to mention over 150,000 tourists per year and they stay the longest.

It is possible therefore that Uganda earns over $500m in foreign exchange from Rwanda – which is about 8.5% of our export earnings and 2.2% of our GDP. This is income to Ugandan farmers, traders, manufactures, and other investors. If such strategic considerations influenced Uganda’s attitude towards Rwanda as Museveni often presents it, then Kampala should be the one working frantically to improve relations with Kigali. Look what has happened at the border when Kigali closed it – Ugandans are losing money!

The strategic deficit in Kampala’s thinking is reflected in the fact that to speak positively about the government of Rwanda generally and Kagame particularly is considered unpatriotic in State House circles. One does not need to love Rwanda or Kagame to seek a good relationship with our southern neighbour. One only needs to love Uganda – her farmers, professionals, manufactures and other investors who make a lot of money from Rwanda. And this is actually the content of the keynote speech Museveni gave in Kigali at the 25th anniversary of the founding of the RPF in December 2012.

It is very possible that Uganda has legitimate grievances against Rwanda. However, in my many years working on Rwanda-Uganda matters, I have never been presented with any. Instead, elements in the security and rumor mongering services in Kampala have made many allegations against Kigali, which they have been unwilling to substantiate or formally or even informally complain about to Rwanda. At any rate, if they have credible claims against Rwanda they can simply present them to the government in Kigali. I suspect Museveni had fears about Rwanda he is unwilling to put on the table, a factor accentuating this conflict. My advice is that pretense invites ambiguity; candor breeds clarity.

Many people are accusing Rwanda government of overreacting. Anyone can justifiably be critical of many aspects of the way Kigali has reacted. But following the story above one can easily read Kigali’s dilemma. I suspect the decision to close the border, if true, is designed to escalate the situation so as to induce Kampala to talk, not to spark a war. Short of this, I do see what else Kigali would have done when all formal and informal requests for discussions to resolve the differences were met with indifference and stone silence.

Sent using Jamii Forums mobile app

Let them shoot each other in broad day light, we will sell to them, not guns and other weapons but Mahindi.

 

[Rasterman]

lwt

By Andrew M. Mwenda

Let me do what politicians always do – claim they run for office due to popular demand. Many people have been asking me to comment on the heightened tensions between Uganda and Rwanda. By writing this article, I am yielding to popular pressure. I think Uganda and Rwanda will most likely degenerate into war; something I have shared with friends since October last year and this is the reason it is critical that I share my views.

The current standoff is happening only weeks after President Yoweri Museveni gave a highly acclaimed speech to fellow African heads of state at the African Union in Addis Ababa in defense of regional integration and President Paul Kagame assumed chairmanship of the East African Community. That the two could be close to war shows the distance between aspiration and action.

The problems between Uganda and Rwanda can easily be solved if Museveni upheld his core ideological position i.e. that regional integration is critical for Africa’s future, and that the differences between our countries are smaller compared to the strategic need for and benefits of cooperation. From this view, if any two nations have differences they should seek to listen to each other and solve them. The problem between Uganda and Rwanda – as I know it – is the refusal of Kampala to listen to the concerns of Kigali and/or put her own grievances on the table for discussion.

For example, Rwanda has complained severally to Uganda both formally and informally about the presence of persons hostile to the government in Kigali. It says these people abuse their refugee status in Uganda by indulging in politically hostile actions against the government in Kigali. Rwanda has further complained that these persons (many of whom it has named) are actively aided by Ugandan intelligence to recruit Rwandans from refugee camps and take them to DR Congo for training in rebel camps.

Kigali has always wanted and actively sought to discuss these matters with Kampala. It has been met with stone silence. Instead, Kigali has been reading in Ugandan traditional and social media that it is the government of Rwanda planning regime change in Kampala. Websites allied to State House in Uganda are leading this charge. Some security chiefs in Uganda have said similar. Yet Kampala has never made a formal or informal complaint to Kigali on these allegations. This has placed the government of Rwanda in a difficult situation on how to respond to media rumors when government of Uganda has never owned them.

This situation could have been arrested long ago. However, all efforts to begin a dialogue between the two countries have been thwarted by Uganda. The most serious one was mid last year when I worked with Gen. Salim Saleh to send a delegation to Kigali or invite a Rwandan delegation to Kampala for discussions. We even greed on the team of Ugandan officials. I talked to Kagame who readily nominated a team of officials to meet the Ugandan side. On the last minute Museveni personally cancelled the plan saying he will handle this matter directly with Kagame.

I personally tried several times to interest Museveni in the issues Rwanda was raising but he either expressed indifference or paid leap service or said he will discuss them directly with Kagame, which he rarely did. This was especially frustrating for me because between 2011 I worked closely with the Ugandan president to repair our relations with Kigali. During that time I was impressed by Museveni’s boldness, courage and strategic foresight. His subsequent loss of interest without explanation is frustrating but also illuminating.

While Museveni has promised to discuss these matters directly with Kagame and which he has done on occasion, there has been no follow up by Kampala. I am aware that whenever Museveni has met Kagame, he has never raised the issue of regime change by Kigali against him. Kagame has told Museveni that Uganda’s Chieftaincy of Military Intelligence (CMI) actively works with Rwandan dissidents. Museveni has promised to verify the claims and end the problem. The last I heard is that Uganda sent one such person to Norway.

CMI has been detaining Rwandan nationals in illegal facilities, torturing and deporting them to Rwanda. CMI accuses these people of spying but has never produced them before courts of law. Neither has Uganda complained to Rwanda about this. Kigali has protested these detentions and deportations formally and informally. Again it has been met with stone silence. Meanwhile Uganda accuses Rwanda of kidnapping and killing Rwandans in Uganda and of seeking regime change but never provides names or any evidence and has never made a formal or informal protest to Rwanda.

I have told officials of Uganda that even if these allegations of kidnappings and killings are true, Rwanda is supposed to be our ally. When an ally behaves like that, you don’t stop talking to them. Israel is an ally of America. On many occasions its intelligence services have been caught either kidnapping people from America or infiltrating US intelligence and stealing highly classified information. These actions by Israel have been a great irritant to the USA, but they have never formed a basis for the break in relations. Recently America was caught tapping calls of leaders of nations among her NATO allies but this did not lead to the break in relations.

Museveni is one of the most strategic minded persons I have read and listened to. I do not think he would preside over the collapse of a strategic relationship with an ally because of such infringements. Such infringements are the reason to dialogue, not break-up. The only conclusion I can infer from his attitude towards Kigali is that either he does not consider Rwanda an ally or he does not think our relationship with her is strategic – or both. I have increasingly come to believe that Museveni sees Kagame’s Rwanda as a threat, a factor I will write about in detail in my next post.

Now here is the slippery slope to war: if Rwanda is convinced Kampala is seeking regime change against Kagame, it will not sit idly and watch. Uganda has enemies too. It follows that Kigali will be driven to aid them. Given the interpenetration of the two societies and government systems, Kampala will finally get the hard evidence of this aid. Thus what begun as empty claims that Kigali is seeking regime change against Museveni will now be fact with evidence!

From my experience dealing with officials of the government of Rwanda, most especially Kagame personally, I have been struck by their desire and determination to build good relations with Uganda. Kagame personally treats good relations with Uganda to be of utmost strategic importance. In my many years working with him on Uganda-Rwanda issues, he has never wavered in his determination to pursue a better relationship with Kampala. Indeed, he has always been willing to bend backwards to get this relationship to work. However, he is not willing do seek a good relationship on his knees.

Museveni has personally told me there is no fundamental problem between Uganda and Rwanda. However, Kagame has serious charges against Uganda, the most serious being regime change. There are other strategic issues of an economic nature but they are not as alarming. Therefore, in trying to repair the relations between the two governments, the first issue to resolve is the accusation of regime change by Kigali against Kampala. But since Kampala’s rumor mill is making similar allegations, Uganda should place them on the table – formally and/or informally. Official silence and informal denials are unlikely to solve anything.

What one gets from Kampala’s attitude towards Kigali is what Batooro call omugayo – despise, under-look, disregard. Yet for all Museveni’s talk of regional integration and other such strategic considerations, Kampala’s attitude towards Kigali only shows he is not willing walk the talk. Uganda exports goods worth $250m per year to Rwanda. Rwanda only exports a paltry $16m. Uganda has over 30,000 professionals and semi skilled people working in Rwanda. Ugandan companies have multi million dollar contracts to supply goods and services in Rwanda, others have made investments there. And Rwanda sends a large number of students to study in Ugandan schools from primary to university, not to mention over 150,000 tourists per year and they stay the longest.

It is possible therefore that Uganda earns over $500m in foreign exchange from Rwanda – which is about 8.5% of our export earnings and 2.2% of our GDP. This is income to Ugandan farmers, traders, manufactures, and other investors. If such strategic considerations influenced Uganda’s attitude towards Rwanda as Museveni often presents it, then Kampala should be the one working frantically to improve relations with Kigali. Look what has happened at the border when Kigali closed it – Ugandans are losing money!

The strategic deficit in Kampala’s thinking is reflected in the fact that to speak positively about the government of Rwanda generally and Kagame particularly is considered unpatriotic in State House circles. One does not need to love Rwanda or Kagame to seek a good relationship with our southern neighbour. One only needs to love Uganda – her farmers, professionals, manufactures and other investors who make a lot of money from Rwanda. And this is actually the content of the keynote speech Museveni gave in Kigali at the 25th anniversary of the founding of the RPF in December 2012.

It is very possible that Uganda has legitimate grievances against Rwanda. However, in my many years working on Rwanda-Uganda matters, I have never been presented with any. Instead, elements in the security and rumor mongering services in Kampala have made many allegations against Kigali, which they have been unwilling to substantiate or formally or even informally complain about to Rwanda. At any rate, if they have credible claims against Rwanda they can simply present them to the government in Kigali. I suspect Museveni had fears about Rwanda he is unwilling to put on the table, a factor accentuating this conflict. My advice is that pretense invites ambiguity; candor breeds clarity.

Many people are accusing Rwanda government of overreacting. Anyone can justifiably be critical of many aspects of the way Kigali has reacted. But following the story above one can easily read Kigali’s dilemma. I suspect the decision to close the border, if true, is designed to escalate the situation so as to induce Kampala to talk, not to spark a war. Short of this, I do see what else Kigali would have done when all formal and informal requests for discussions to resolve the differences were met with indifference and stone silence.

Sent using Jamii Forums mobile app

Let them shoot each other in broad day light, we will sell to them, not guns and other weapons but Mahindi.

 

[Rasterman]

lwt

By Andrew M. Mwenda

Let me do what politicians always do – claim they run for office due to popular demand. Many people have been asking me to comment on the heightened tensions between Uganda and Rwanda. By writing this article, I am yielding to popular pressure. I think Uganda and Rwanda will most likely degenerate into war; something I have shared with friends since October last year and this is the reason it is critical that I share my views.

The current standoff is happening only weeks after President Yoweri Museveni gave a highly acclaimed speech to fellow African heads of state at the African Union in Addis Ababa in defense of regional integration and President Paul Kagame assumed chairmanship of the East African Community. That the two could be close to war shows the distance between aspiration and action.

The problems between Uganda and Rwanda can easily be solved if Museveni upheld his core ideological position i.e. that regional integration is critical for Africa’s future, and that the differences between our countries are smaller compared to the strategic need for and benefits of cooperation. From this view, if any two nations have differences they should seek to listen to each other and solve them. The problem between Uganda and Rwanda – as I know it – is the refusal of Kampala to listen to the concerns of Kigali and/or put her own grievances on the table for discussion.

For example, Rwanda has complained severally to Uganda both formally and informally about the presence of persons hostile to the government in Kigali. It says these people abuse their refugee status in Uganda by indulging in politically hostile actions against the government in Kigali. Rwanda has further complained that these persons (many of whom it has named) are actively aided by Ugandan intelligence to recruit Rwandans from refugee camps and take them to DR Congo for training in rebel camps.

Kigali has always wanted and actively sought to discuss these matters with Kampala. It has been met with stone silence. Instead, Kigali has been reading in Ugandan traditional and social media that it is the government of Rwanda planning regime change in Kampala. Websites allied to State House in Uganda are leading this charge. Some security chiefs in Uganda have said similar. Yet Kampala has never made a formal or informal complaint to Kigali on these allegations. This has placed the government of Rwanda in a difficult situation on how to respond to media rumors when government of Uganda has never owned them.

This situation could have been arrested long ago. However, all efforts to begin a dialogue between the two countries have been thwarted by Uganda. The most serious one was mid last year when I worked with Gen. Salim Saleh to send a delegation to Kigali or invite a Rwandan delegation to Kampala for discussions. We even greed on the team of Ugandan officials. I talked to Kagame who readily nominated a team of officials to meet the Ugandan side. On the last minute Museveni personally cancelled the plan saying he will handle this matter directly with Kagame.

I personally tried several times to interest Museveni in the issues Rwanda was raising but he either expressed indifference or paid leap service or said he will discuss them directly with Kagame, which he rarely did. This was especially frustrating for me because between 2011 I worked closely with the Ugandan president to repair our relations with Kigali. During that time I was impressed by Museveni’s boldness, courage and strategic foresight. His subsequent loss of interest without explanation is frustrating but also illuminating.

While Museveni has promised to discuss these matters directly with Kagame and which he has done on occasion, there has been no follow up by Kampala. I am aware that whenever Museveni has met Kagame, he has never raised the issue of regime change by Kigali against him. Kagame has told Museveni that Uganda’s Chieftaincy of Military Intelligence (CMI) actively works with Rwandan dissidents. Museveni has promised to verify the claims and end the problem. The last I heard is that Uganda sent one such person to Norway.

CMI has been detaining Rwandan nationals in illegal facilities, torturing and deporting them to Rwanda. CMI accuses these people of spying but has never produced them before courts of law. Neither has Uganda complained to Rwanda about this. Kigali has protested these detentions and deportations formally and informally. Again it has been met with stone silence. Meanwhile Uganda accuses Rwanda of kidnapping and killing Rwandans in Uganda and of seeking regime change but never provides names or any evidence and has never made a formal or informal protest to Rwanda.

I have told officials of Uganda that even if these allegations of kidnappings and killings are true, Rwanda is supposed to be our ally. When an ally behaves like that, you don’t stop talking to them. Israel is an ally of America. On many occasions its intelligence services have been caught either kidnapping people from America or infiltrating US intelligence and stealing highly classified information. These actions by Israel have been a great irritant to the USA, but they have never formed a basis for the break in relations. Recently America was caught tapping calls of leaders of nations among her NATO allies but this did not lead to the break in relations.

Museveni is one of the most strategic minded persons I have read and listened to. I do not think he would preside over the collapse of a strategic relationship with an ally because of such infringements. Such infringements are the reason to dialogue, not break-up. The only conclusion I can infer from his attitude towards Kigali is that either he does not consider Rwanda an ally or he does not think our relationship with her is strategic – or both. I have increasingly come to believe that Museveni sees Kagame’s Rwanda as a threat, a factor I will write about in detail in my next post.

Now here is the slippery slope to war: if Rwanda is convinced Kampala is seeking regime change against Kagame, it will not sit idly and watch. Uganda has enemies too. It follows that Kigali will be driven to aid them. Given the interpenetration of the two societies and government systems, Kampala will finally get the hard evidence of this aid. Thus what begun as empty claims that Kigali is seeking regime change against Museveni will now be fact with evidence!

From my experience dealing with officials of the government of Rwanda, most especially Kagame personally, I have been struck by their desire and determination to build good relations with Uganda. Kagame personally treats good relations with Uganda to be of utmost strategic importance. In my many years working with him on Uganda-Rwanda issues, he has never wavered in his determination to pursue a better relationship with Kampala. Indeed, he has always been willing to bend backwards to get this relationship to work. However, he is not willing do seek a good relationship on his knees.

Museveni has personally told me there is no fundamental problem between Uganda and Rwanda. However, Kagame has serious charges against Uganda, the most serious being regime change. There are other strategic issues of an economic nature but they are not as alarming. Therefore, in trying to repair the relations between the two governments, the first issue to resolve is the accusation of regime change by Kigali against Kampala. But since Kampala’s rumor mill is making similar allegations, Uganda should place them on the table – formally and/or informally. Official silence and informal denials are unlikely to solve anything.

What one gets from Kampala’s attitude towards Kigali is what Batooro call omugayo – despise, under-look, disregard. Yet for all Museveni’s talk of regional integration and other such strategic considerations, Kampala’s attitude towards Kigali only shows he is not willing walk the talk. Uganda exports goods worth $250m per year to Rwanda. Rwanda only exports a paltry $16m. Uganda has over 30,000 professionals and semi skilled people working in Rwanda. Ugandan companies have multi million dollar contracts to supply goods and services in Rwanda, others have made investments there. And Rwanda sends a large number of students to study in Ugandan schools from primary to university, not to mention over 150,000 tourists per year and they stay the longest.

It is possible therefore that Uganda earns over $500m in foreign exchange from Rwanda – which is about 8.5% of our export earnings and 2.2% of our GDP. This is income to Ugandan farmers, traders, manufactures, and other investors. If such strategic considerations influenced Uganda’s attitude towards Rwanda as Museveni often presents it, then Kampala should be the one working frantically to improve relations with Kigali. Look what has happened at the border when Kigali closed it – Ugandans are losing money!

The strategic deficit in Kampala’s thinking is reflected in the fact that to speak positively about the government of Rwanda generally and Kagame particularly is considered unpatriotic in State House circles. One does not need to love Rwanda or Kagame to seek a good relationship with our southern neighbour. One only needs to love Uganda – her farmers, professionals, manufactures and other investors who make a lot of money from Rwanda. And this is actually the content of the keynote speech Museveni gave in Kigali at the 25th anniversary of the founding of the RPF in December 2012.

It is very possible that Uganda has legitimate grievances against Rwanda. However, in my many years working on Rwanda-Uganda matters, I have never been presented with any. Instead, elements in the security and rumor mongering services in Kampala have made many allegations against Kigali, which they have been unwilling to substantiate or formally or even informally complain about to Rwanda. At any rate, if they have credible claims against Rwanda they can simply present them to the government in Kigali. I suspect Museveni had fears about Rwanda he is unwilling to put on the table, a factor accentuating this conflict. My advice is that pretense invites ambiguity; candor breeds clarity.

Many people are accusing Rwanda government of overreacting. Anyone can justifiably be critical of many aspects of the way Kigali has reacted. But following the story above one can easily read Kigali’s dilemma. I suspect the decision to close the border, if true, is designed to escalate the situation so as to induce Kampala to talk, not to spark a war. Short of this, I do see what else Kigali would have done when all formal and informal requests for discussions to resolve the differences were met with indifference and stone silence.

Sent using Jamii Forums mobile app

Let them shoot each other in broad day light, we will sell to them, not guns and other weapons but Mahindi.

 

[Rasterman]

The only problem I see is fear of the unknown.

Kagame is Coward same to Museveni. Kagame is fearing the opponents in Uganda who might come back home and challenge him. similarly Museveni is fearing Ugandans living in Rwanda who may come home and oust him. both see each other as been brewers of rebels and strong opponents of the current regimes.

Kagame ni zao la kikundi cha waasi na Mseveni pia ni zao la Kikundi cha waasi, wote wahuni tu.

 

[Magonjwa Mtambuka]

Mkuu ungeandika kwa kiswahili ungepata wachangiaji wengi sana

Angeandika kwa Kiswahili angeonekana sio msomi.

 

[Montserrat]

Mkuu ungeandika kwa kiswahili ungepata wachangiaji wengi sana

Ngosha anawadanganya, kiswahili kiswahili, ona sasa umetoka kapa

 

[KIM KARDASH]

PEOPLE SHOULD LEARN ENGLISH, english is the international language, without ability to communacate with english, you cant do much in international issues, like trade and exports and imports and such, and today you can learn english at the comfort of your computer, without going to school,swahili is just a mere local language

Siku hizi kuna kichina pia

 

[Ukwaju]

PEOPLE SHOULD LEARN ENGLISH, english is the international language, without ability to communacate with english, you cant do much in international issues, like trade and exports and imports and such, and today you can learn english at the comfort of your computer, without going to school,swahili is just a mere local language

Acheni ujinga mnajifanya hamjui Kiswahili. kwani Vita ikianza mtaongea Kinyarwanda au Kiswahili?
Hao jamaa sasa hivi watatwangana ingawa ni waHIMA waliotaka kuitawala Maziwa Makuu sasa kimebuma
kalghabaho msina mahala anye wakonongo leche mdundwe wayago

 

[Ukwaju]

Kagame ni zao la kikundi cha waasi na Mseveni pia ni zao la Kikundi cha waasi, wote wahuni tu.

Kweli kabisa ni kijana wa Museveni, eti leo anataka wabaya wake wataifishiwe malizao zote na wauwawe huko Uganda, Museveni kakataa, bado akaja Tanzania kuomba mali za huyo tajiri (Kagame anayedhani) anayewafadhili waasi ataifishiwe mai zake sijui JPM kaamuaje

 

[KIM KARDASH]

Nonsense. The problem is and has always been Paul Kagame. Why should Uganda allow him to assassinate Rwandans on Ugandan soil? Must he kill his political opponents? Kikwete told him to sit down and talk with them we all know how Kagame reacted.
This man ata South Africa imewahi kumnyoshea kidole.
Apigwe tu!

Kuna sintofahamu nyingi na za muda mrefu kati ya Uganda ya M7 na Rwanda ya PaKa tofauti na wengi tunavyoiangazia jumla jumla,kufupisha tu ukianzia toka enzi za mapambano ya watutsi tokea uganda wakijaribu kufanya regime change ina kigali kuuangusha utawala wa kihutu wa Habyarimana,M7 used to feel more comfortable with the Late Gen.Fred Gisa Rwigemana ambae alifariki two days before wapiganaji wa Rwandese Patriotic Front hawajavuka mpaka wa uganda na rwanda kuingia rasmi katika ardhi ya rwanda kuondeleza mapambano ya kuitafuta Kigali.Kuhusu kifo chake kuna hadithi yake tata pia,yeye ndio alikua kiongozi wa RPF na ndio angekua kiongozi wa rwanda.M7 aliumizwa sana na kifo cha Gen Rwigema,hakua na jinsi mapambano ilibidi lazima yasonge mbele na lazima pawepo kiongozi,ndio akaibuka kagame ambae ilibidi m7 aanze kujifunza kumzoea na kumuamini na kumtia kwenye plan zake na Gen Rwigema.Then RPF ikasonga mbele ikaingia rwanda na badae yakatokea yaliyotokea ikiwemo kutunguliwa kwa ndege iliyombeba Raia mhutu wa rwanda Habyarimana na mwenzake wa Burundi wakijaribu kutua uwanja wa ndege wa rwanda wakitokea Dar,Tanzania,hakuna anaejua mpaka leo kiuhakika nani waliitungua ile ndege lkn kwa kiasi kikubwa wanahisiwa ni RPF,Japo walikanusha haraka mara tu baada ya tukio kutokea kwamba hawahusiki bali wahutu wenye msimamo mkali waliokua wanapinga mazungumzo ya amani yaliyokua yakifanyika tanzania kati ya habyarimana na RPF kimtindo.Baada ya tukio hilo kila mtu anajua kilichotokea ni mauaji ya kimbari ya watutsi.Mwisho wa siku RPF chini ya PaKa wakachukua nchi.

Sintofahamu za uganda na Rwanda haikuchukua muda zikaanza chini chini,kina Kagame wakihisi their ugandan brothers treated them like kids or as if they supposed to be surbodinate to them,yani kiufupi walihisi M7 anataka kuitawala rwanda na uganda pia na kuwafanya wao vibaraka wake tu.Na kulikua na conversation za wazi kwenye officers mess yao pale kiyovu kati ya kagame akiwa vice president na waziri wa ulinzi kati yake na marehemu patric karegeya wakicomplain kuhusu uganda inavyowatreat.Anyways hivyo ndivyo kutokuaminiana kulivyo anza mpaka kufikia issue za kina kalegeya na nyamwasa kukimbilia uhamishoni badae na yaliyotokea.Ni kwamba kila upande ukaanza kuhisi kuan njama za upande wa pili kutaka kufanya regime change,hofu serious zaidi mwanzo ilianza kwa uganda baada ya uchaguzi 2001,kulijitokeza habari za kikundi cha PRA kikiongozwa na wanajeshi wawili wa uganda col. Antony chakabari na samson mande(google these names kujielimisha zaidi).Iko kikundi trained in rwanda kwa lengo la kumuondo m7 madarakani,badae kukawa na mazungumzo ya pande zote mbili uganda na rwanda na viongozi wa iko kikundi nchini sweden kwa msaada wa jumuia ya ulaya,wakayatuliza.Pia vita ya rwanda na uganda ndani ya congo wakati ule iliacha jeraha kubwa kwa uhusiano wa nchi hizo mbili,inasemekana waganda wengi sana walikufa kwenye ile vita,m7 doesnt wanna let it go mpaka leo.

Pia ni kweli rwanda inaccess na mifumo ya kiintelijensia ya uganda,they monitor everything going on in uganda,iko kitu m7 kinamkosesha raha,ndio mana nae anajibu mapigo kwa kuwaunga mkono RNC -RWANDA NATONAL CONGRESS ya Gen.Kayumba nyamwasa anaeishi uhamishoni south africa ambae kagame amemkosakosa mara kadha kummaliza huko huko south africa akafanikiwa kummaliza patric karegeya kwa kumnyonga kwa mashuka hotelini.

Katika kuidhiti rwanda kujipenyeza kwenye mifumo ya kiusalama ya uganda mwaka jana may 2018 m7 alimfuta kazi IGP wa uganda mganda mwenye asili ya kitutsi General EDWARD KALEKEZI KAYIHURA maarufu kwa jina la KALE KAYIHURA.

Gen.KALE KAYIHURA na mkewe ANGELLA

 

[MTAZAMO]

Kuna sintofahamu nyingi na za muda mrefu kati ya Uganda ya M7 na Rwanda ya PaKa tofauti na wengi tunavyoiangazia jumla jumla,kufupisha tu ukianzia toka enzi za mapambano ya watutsi tokea uganda wakijaribu kufanya regime change ina kigali kuuangusha utawala wa kihutu wa Habyarimana,M7 used to feel more comfortable with the Late Gen.Fred Gisa Rwigemana ambae alifariki two days before wapiganaji wa Rwandese Patriotic Front hawajavuka mpaka wa uganda na rwanda kuingia rasmi katika ardhi ya rwanda kuondeleza mapambano ya kuitafuta Kigali.Kuhusu kifo chake kuna hadithi yake tata pia,yeye ndio alikua kiongozi wa RPF na ndio angekua kiongozi wa rwanda.M7 aliumizwa sana na kifo cha Gen Rwigema,hakua na jinsi mapambano ilibidi lazima yasonge mbele na lazima pawepo kiongozi,ndio akaibuka kagame ambae ilibidi m7 aanze kujifunza kumzoea na kumuamini na kumtia kwenye plan zake na Gen Rwigema.Then RPF ikasonga mbele ikaingia rwanda na badae yakatokea yaliyotokea ikiwemo kutunguliwa kwa ndege iliyombeba Raia mhutu wa rwanda Habyarimana na mwenzake wa Burundi wakijaribu kutua uwanja wa ndege wa rwanda wakitokea Dar,Tanzania,hakuna anaejua mpaka leo kiuhakika nani waliitungua ile ndege lkn kwa kiasi kikubwa wanahisiwa ni RPF,Japo walikanusha haraka mara tu baada ya tukio kutokea kwamba hawahusiki bali wahutu wenye msimamo mkali waliokua wanapinga mazungumzo ya amani yaliyokua yakifanyika tanzania kati ya habyarimana na RPF kimtindo.Baada ya tukio hilo kila mtu anajua kilichotokea ni mauaji ya kimbari ya watutsi.Mwisho wa siku RPF chini ya PaKa wakachukua nchi.

Sintofahamu za uganda na Rwanda haikuchukua muda zikaanza chini chini,kina Kagame wakihisi their ugandan brothers treated them like kids or as if they supposed to be surbodinate to them,yani kiufupi walihisi M7 anataka kuitawala rwanda na uganda pia na kuwafanya wao vibaraka wake tu.Na kulikua na conversation za wazi kwenye officers mess yao pale kiyovu kati ya kagame akiwa vice president na waziri wa ulinzi kati yake na marehemu patric karegeya wakicomplain kuhusu uganda inavyowatreat.Anyways hivyo ndivyo kutokuaminiana kulivyo anza mpaka kufikia issue za kina kalegeya na nyamwasa kukimbilia uhamishoni badae na yaliyotokea.Ni kwamba kila upande ukaanza kuhisi kuan njama za upande wa pili kutaka kufanya regime change,hofu serious zaidi mwanzo ilianza kwa uganda baada ya uchaguzi 2001,kulijitokeza habari za kikundi cha PRA kikiongozwa na wanajeshi wawili wa uganda col. Antony chakabari na samson mande(google these names kujielimisha zaidi).Iko kikundi trained in rwanda kwa lengo la kumuondo m7 madarakani,badae kukawa na mazungumzo ya pande zote mbili uganda na rwanda na viongozi wa iko kikundi nchini sweden kwa msaada wa jumuia ya ulaya,wakayatuliza.Pia vita ya rwanda na uganda ndani ya congo wakati ule iliacha jeraha kubwa kwa uhusiano wa nchi hizo mbili,inasemekana waganda wengi sana walikufa kwenye ile vita,m7 doesnt wanna let it go mpaka leo.

Pia ni kweli rwanda inaccess na mifumo ya kiintelijensia ya uganda,they monitor everything going on in uganda,iko kitu m7 kinamkosesha raha,ndio mana nae anajibu mapigo kwa kuwaunga mkono RNC -RWANDA NATONAL CONGRESS ya Gen.Kayumba nyamwasa anaeishi uhamishoni south africa ambae kagame amemkosakosa mara kadha kummaliza huko huko south africa akafanikiwa kummaliza patric karegeya kwa kumnyonga kwa mashuka hotelini.

Katika kuidhiti rwanda kujipenyeza kwenye mifumo ya kiusalama ya uganda mwaka jana may 2018 m7 alimfuta kazi IGP wa uganda mganda mwenye asili ya kitutsi General EDWARD KALEKEZI KAYIHURA maarufu kwa jina la KALE KAYIHURA.

View attachment 1044910
Gen.KALE KAYIHURA na mkewe ANGELLA

Asante kwa andiko hii ....

Sent using Jamii Forums mobile app

 

[Alexism]

We are tired of these Himas and their agenda setting theory..
Museveni and Kagame are architect of what is happening

 

[Alexism]

Kwani Museveni ni mzawa wa wapi mkuu?
Kagame amefanya kazi kwenye serikari ya NRA/NRM

Kuna sintofahamu nyingi na za muda mrefu kati ya Uganda ya M7 na Rwanda ya PaKa tofauti na wengi tunavyoiangazia jumla jumla,kufupisha tu ukianzia toka enzi za mapambano ya watutsi tokea uganda wakijaribu kufanya regime change ina kigali kuuangusha utawala wa kihutu wa Habyarimana,M7 used to feel more comfortable with the Late Gen.Fred Gisa Rwigemana ambae alifariki two days before wapiganaji wa Rwandese Patriotic Front hawajavuka mpaka wa uganda na rwanda kuingia rasmi katika ardhi ya rwanda kuondeleza mapambano ya kuitafuta Kigali.Kuhusu kifo chake kuna hadithi yake tata pia,yeye ndio alikua kiongozi wa RPF na ndio angekua kiongozi wa rwanda.M7 aliumizwa sana na kifo cha Gen Rwigema,hakua na jinsi mapambano ilibidi lazima yasonge mbele na lazima pawepo kiongozi,ndio akaibuka kagame ambae ilibidi m7 aanze kujifunza kumzoea na kumuamini na kumtia kwenye plan zake na Gen Rwigema.Then RPF ikasonga mbele ikaingia rwanda na badae yakatokea yaliyotokea ikiwemo kutunguliwa kwa ndege iliyombeba Raia mhutu wa rwanda Habyarimana na mwenzake wa Burundi wakijaribu kutua uwanja wa ndege wa rwanda wakitokea Dar,Tanzania,hakuna anaejua mpaka leo kiuhakika nani waliitungua ile ndege lkn kwa kiasi kikubwa wanahisiwa ni RPF,Japo walikanusha haraka mara tu baada ya tukio kutokea kwamba hawahusiki bali wahutu wenye msimamo mkali waliokua wanapinga mazungumzo ya amani yaliyokua yakifanyika tanzania kati ya habyarimana na RPF kimtindo.Baada ya tukio hilo kila mtu anajua kilichotokea ni mauaji ya kimbari ya watutsi.Mwisho wa siku RPF chini ya PaKa wakachukua nchi.

Sintofahamu za uganda na Rwanda haikuchukua muda zikaanza chini chini,kina Kagame wakihisi their ugandan brothers treated them like kids or as if they supposed to be surbodinate to them,yani kiufupi walihisi M7 anataka kuitawala rwanda na uganda pia na kuwafanya wao vibaraka wake tu.Na kulikua na conversation za wazi kwenye officers mess yao pale kiyovu kati ya kagame akiwa vice president na waziri wa ulinzi kati yake na marehemu patric karegeya wakicomplain kuhusu uganda inavyowatreat.Anyways hivyo ndivyo kutokuaminiana kulivyo anza mpaka kufikia issue za kina kalegeya na nyamwasa kukimbilia uhamishoni badae na yaliyotokea.Ni kwamba kila upande ukaanza kuhisi kuan njama za upande wa pili kutaka kufanya regime change,hofu serious zaidi mwanzo ilianza kwa uganda baada ya uchaguzi 2001,kulijitokeza habari za kikundi cha PRA kikiongozwa na wanajeshi wawili wa uganda col. Antony chakabari na samson mande(google these names kujielimisha zaidi).Iko kikundi trained in rwanda kwa lengo la kumuondo m7 madarakani,badae kukawa na mazungumzo ya pande zote mbili uganda na rwanda na viongozi wa iko kikundi nchini sweden kwa msaada wa jumuia ya ulaya,wakayatuliza.Pia vita ya rwanda na uganda ndani ya congo wakati ule iliacha jeraha kubwa kwa uhusiano wa nchi hizo mbili,inasemekana waganda wengi sana walikufa kwenye ile vita,m7 doesnt wanna let it go mpaka leo.

Pia ni kweli rwanda inaccess na mifumo ya kiintelijensia ya uganda,they monitor everything going on in uganda,iko kitu m7 kinamkosesha raha,ndio mana nae anajibu mapigo kwa kuwaunga mkono RNC -RWANDA NATONAL CONGRESS ya Gen.Kayumba nyamwasa anaeishi uhamishoni south africa ambae kagame amemkosakosa mara kadha kummaliza huko huko south africa akafanikiwa kummaliza patric karegeya kwa kumnyonga kwa mashuka hotelini.

Katika kuidhiti rwanda kujipenyeza kwenye mifumo ya kiusalama ya uganda mwaka jana may 2018 m7 alimfuta kazi IGP wa uganda mganda mwenye asili ya kitutsi General EDWARD KALEKEZI KAYIHURA maarufu kwa jina la KALE KAYIHURA.

View attachment 1044910
Gen.KALE KAYIHURA na mkewe ANGELLA

 

[Abunwasi]

Nonsense. The problem is and has always been Paul Kagame. Why should Uganda allow him to assassinate Rwandans on Ugandan soil? Must he kill his political opponents? Kikwete told him to sit down and talk with them we all know how Kagame reacted.
This man ata South Africa imewahi kumnyoshea kidole.
Apigwe tu!

Hivi unadhani Uganda itaweza kupigana na Rwanda? Usisahau kuna vikundi msituni congo vinavyopingana na utawala wa Museveni. Vikundi hivi huingia uganda, kuua pamoja na uharibifu mwingine na kutokomea huko maporini.

 

[Richard irakunda]

Hata rwanda pia wana waasi pia wanaoitamani saana rwanda lkn hawana pa kuanzia

Kivyovyote vile wakiingia vitani lzm paka akione cha moto

Hivi unadhani Uganda itaweza kupigana na Rwanda? Usisahau kuna vikundi msituni congo vinavyopingana na utawala wa Museveni. Vikundi hivi huingia uganda, kuua pamoja na uharibifu mwingine na kutokomea huko maporini.

Sent using my iPhone using jamiiforum app

 

[Abunwasi]

Hata rwanda pia wana waasi pia wanaoitamani saana rwanda lkn hawana pa kuanzia

Kivyovyote vile wakiingia vitani lzm paka akione cha moto

Sent using my iPhone using jamiiforum app

Wote watakiona cha moto na kwa bahati mbaya hata sisi itatuathiri kiuchumi na ki usalama.
Usimwombee njaa jirani yako ambaye ni mteja wako.

 

[Richard irakunda]

Wote watakiona cha moto na kwa bahati mbaya hata sisi itatuathiri kiuchumi na ki usalama.
Usimwombee njaa jirani yako ambaye ni mteja wako.

Tukiweka UTU pembeni lazima tupige pesa mfano time wao wanapigana sisi tunawaomba LATO milk waamishie viwanda huku au tunaweza kuiba wanyama wao

Ili watu wapigane lazima wale so tunaweza kuwauzia misosi

Sent using my iPhone using jamiiforum app