CHADEMA wakataza

Icadon said:

Out of the topic, hivi kwa nini mtu ukiwa critical na mtizama pande zote za shilingi unapewa majina mengi kama mtetezi/kuwadi/kibaraka wa mafisadi and so forth?

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It looks like we'll have to live with such insanity. Kuna ambao wanawakilisha misimamo mikali ya vyama vyao na kuvitetea no matter how ugly some of their deeds are, to our beloved country. Bahati mbaya ni kuwa, kelele za mke mdogo hazimfanyi mumewe aache kumzalisha watoto.

Some of us are here for and only for our lovely country TZ and keep our ideologies and affiliations if any to our own. We will have to double our efforts rid them of this ubumbuazi. May God Bless Tanzania.




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Kitila Mkumbo said:

But is this CHADEMA's decision or Asha's?

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Who knows?
Obviously she seems to have agreed to something that was not from her brain.
Poor Asha, she couldn't say a thing, just follow instructions.​

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Asha Abdala said:

Mbona FMES, FD na baadhi ya wengine humu wanatazama pande zote mbili lakini hawapewi majina hayo? Tatizo ni pale mtu anapotetea mambo ambayo inaonyesha wazi kabisa kuwa hata yeye hayaamini. Anapotetea mambo yasiyoteeka.

Kwani wewe Icadon ushawahi kuitwa fisadi? Mbona michango yako humu inasimamia ukweli tu, hata kama ukweli huo uwe ni wa upande gani?

Asha

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Hii definition yako ya fisadi inafurahisha. Ni yepi hayo yaliyotetewa ambayo mteteaji hayaamini? Hebu weka angalau matatu ili mhusika awe FISADI.
1. .............................

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Kubwajinga said:

This is good. At least you agree with me that you are biased towards CHADEMA. Point noted.




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ni wewe umesema na ni wewe umeamua kuwa nakubaliana na wewe; I can't help you with that either. Utakuwa umeunganika kwenye msululu wa wasemao.

Kubwajinga said:

This is good. At least you agree with me that you are biased towards CHADEMA. Point noted.




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QUESTIONS....Kwani what is your problem, mbona unahangaika kama mtu aliyelalia godoro lenye kunguni? kwanini msimamo wa mwanakijiji unakukwaza namna hiyo?

Mkuu MJJ,

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Sidhani kama ukiweka majibu ya kutosheleza kama kuna atakayeendelea kukufuatilia. Lakini ukiwa na questionable answers, ni haki ya mtu yeyote kuendelea kuchoknoa.

Ila kiukweli ni kuwa nimekuwa-disappointed sana na partisanship yako. Sidhani kama kuna mtu yeyote ambaye anaweza akawa na mchango wa maana hapa mtandaoni kama atakuwa anaweka upendeleo wa kichama mbele kuliko maslahi ya wanaJF au nchi.

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WHY DONT U PRETEND THAT MWANAKIJIJI DOES NOT EXIST, I ASSURE YOU, YOU WILL FEEL SO MUCH BETTER (USHAURI)

Icadon said:

Out of the topic, hivi kwa nini mtu ukiwa critical na mtizama pande zote za shilingi unapewa majina mengi kama mtetezi/kuwadi/kibaraka wa mafisadi and so forth?

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Icadon: Hili ni swali zito sana japokuwa umesema "out of topic". Tumeathirika sana na system yetu. Tumekuzwa katika mfumo wa kwenda na wengi. Hatujazoea kufikiri kwa kujitegemea. Tumezoeshwa kusema yale na vile ambayo wengine wamesema. Kwa hiyo unaweza kabisa ukawa unafikiria tofauti, lakini unachosema ni kingine kabisa na kile unachokifikiria. Mimi hili nimeliona zaidi kwenye mikutano mbalimbali ambayo nahudhuria na watanzania wenzangu hasa pale anapokuwepo kiongozi wa serikali. Utakuta wengi wakisimama kuongea wanaisifia sana serikali. Mtu mmoja ukisimama unakaukosoea msimamo fulani wa serikali na ukatoa an alternative view, wanakushangilia sana na mkitoka nje ya mkutano wanakwambia I see hata mimi nilikuwa nafikiria hivyohivyo lakini sikutaka kusema bwana si unajua tena mambo haya bwana na blabla kibao. Kwa kifupi tumeathirika sana na kile kitu kinaitwa Group think-you have to think and behave the way the group thinks. It is too bad maana inazima kabisa critical thinking.

Kinachotisha katika hili ni ukweli kwamba hata watu wakipata exposure nje ya Tanzania bado inaonekana hawabadilika sana.

Labda tuendelee kuelimishana kwamba unaweza ukakosoa hoja ya mwezako bila name calling. Mtu akitetea CCM sio lazima kwamba amekuwa CCM au fisadi na wala mtu akiwa critical kwa performance ya serikali sio lazima kwamba ameshakuwa pro opposition au anamchukia JK na serikali yake! By the way, research zinaonyesha kwamba katika nchi nyingi duniani, naamini Tanzania ni mojawapo, wananchi walio wanachama wa vyama vya siasa hawazidi 1/3. Sasa hii maana yake ni kwamba hata hapa kwenye forum wa wanachama watakuwa sio wanachama wa chama chochote, hawa wenzetu wanawaita independents! Kwa hiyo kum-lable mtu kuwa ni mwanachama wa chama fulani kwa sababu ya hoja yake tu ni uzandiki kabisa!

In short, it should be possible for us to argue, debate and show different view points without name calling. Kwa mtazamo wangu, watu wengi hapa hawaja-declare allegiance kwa chama chochote japokiwa maoni yao yanaweza kuonekana kushabihiana na chama fulani kuliko kingine lakini hili haimfanyi huyo mtu awe chama hicho au asiwe chama kile.

Kwa hiyo labda tupo katika process ya 'kukua' after being immensed into one line of thinking for decades, maybe "tukikua" tutaacha!

Kubwajinga said:

Some of us are here for and only for our lovely country TZ and keep our ideologies and affiliations if any to our own. We will have to double our efforts rid them of this ubumbuazi. May God Bless Tanzania.

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This again sounds absurd to me; by implication and extension of yout statement, anybody who declares an allegiance to a certain ideological inclination ceases to be "for and only for our lovely country TZ". It looks like there are plenty of us in this forum who direly and urgently need to take civil and civic lessons!

Kitila Mkumbo said:

This again sounds absurd to me; by implication and extension of yout statement, anybody who declares an allegiance to a certain ideological inclination ceases to be "for and only for our lovely country TZ". It looks like there are plenty of us in this forum who direly and urgently need to take civil and civic lessons!

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kitila i think you didn't understand what the guy meant by that statement. the guy has openly declared(he has the right to do so ) that regardless to the ideologies he might be inclined to, to him the love for the country is number one. myself i have some doubt that, to some people the love for their political parties might exceed the love for the country, or the love for their parties might be the same as the love to the country. what the guy has done is openly declaring the distinction between what comes first, the love for the country or the love for ideologies! and i think he might be right!.

gamba la nyoka said:

kitila i think you didn't understand what the guy meant by that statement. the guy has openly declared(he has the right to do so ) that regardless to the ideologies he might be inclined to, to him the love for the country is number one. myself i have some doubt that, to some people the love for their political parties might exceed the love for the country, or the love for their parties might be the same as the love to the country. what the guy has done is openly declaring the distinction between what comes first, the love for the country or the love for ideologies! and i think he might be right!.

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Gamba,
Thanks for putting my statement into perspective. I hope Kitila and others who didn't understand or didn't want to understand, will read and appreciate your marvellous explanation.

It truly bothers me a lot, to see JF gets hijacked into partisanship, even by some of our highly regarded members. There is little regard to the fate of our beloved country that is crumbling or even democracy that we are struggling to attain when their parties are in discussion. I hope those infused in this mindset will realise that they are becoming neither helpful to their country nor to their respective parties.

Mungu Ibariki Tanzania.​

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Kubwajinga said:

Gamba,
Thanks for putting my statement into perspective. I hope Kitila and others who didn't understand or didn't want to understand, will read and appreciate your marvellous explanation.

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You always want somebody to explain your bluffs

It truly bothers me a lot, to see JF gets hijacked into partisanship, even by some of our highly regarded members. There is little regard to the fate of our beloved country that is crumbling or even democracy that we are struggling to attain when their parties are in discussion. I hope those infused in this mindset will realise that they are becoming neither helpful to their country nor to their respective parties.

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You have been trying to get this forum into a tribal crash with little success but then out of blue you pretend to be above ... whatever you call!?!

Mungu Ibariki Tanzania.​

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Mhh, which GOD are you talking about here!

It is sad that you question the patriotism of other people who seems not to agree with you. You do so by suggesting that because they don't discuss what you want them to discuss then they probably don't love the country the same way that you are. By doing so, you elevate yourself as the only one who loves the country more and dearly than anyone else. To you, anyone who does not dance at the call of your tune he is either partisan or unpatriotic.

By doing so you are committing two fundamental errors:

Ya kwanza ni kujivika umonitor wa patriotism ya watu kwa sababu hawaimbi na kucheza ngoma yako na kwa vile hamuangaliani kwa hoja basi unaamini ya kwako ina nguvu zaidi and everyone should agree with you or do what you want them do instead of convincing them by the plausability and validity of your own arguments. You have failed to do so and resorted in name calling and put downs.

La pili, ni kulazimisha hoja kwa kuamua kupachika watu lebo (branding and name calling), kwamba kama mtu mawazo yake ni kinyume na CCM basi basi ni mpinzani au Partisan na kama mtu anatetea msimamo au mawazo yanayolingana na ya chama fulani basi unampa uanachama wa chama hicho. To you there are no non-affiliated people; aidha mtu yuko kwenye CCM au yuko kwenye upinzani.

Mimi nimeshachukua msimamo wangu na msimamo wangu ni wangu. Wewe hutaki badala yake kama wenzio kabla yako umeona kuwa msimamo wangu unatetea Chadema na hivyo umeniona mimi ni mwanachadema ingawa nina uhakika hujui hilo na hakuna ushahidi wowote wa mimi kudai kuwa ni mwanachama wa chama fulani isipokuwa pale nilipoomba kadi ya CCM. Let me be very clear; nikiamua kujiunga na chama chochote itakuwa ni uamuzi wangu na sina sababu ya kuficha. Kama mawazo yangu yanakubaliana na mawazo ya chama fulani siwezi kuyakana mawazo yangu kwa sababu yanalingana na ya chama hicho. Kama fikra zangu zinakubaliana na mawazo ya mwanasiasa au kiongozi fulani, sioni ubaya wake na siwezi kuyakana kwa sababu nitaonekana "nafanana" na mtu fulani kifikra. Ni woga wa kutokukomaa kuficha mawazo yako kwa sababu utaonekana partisan.

Not agreeing with you should not be taken as a reason to start branding people with all these different labels. To condemn the opposition or the ruling party just for the sake of condemning doesn't make anybody more patriotic or love the country more. Humans are known to have some weird ulterior motives.

Kwa hiyo, tunapopingana kwa hoja ni lazima kuna wakati hatutakubaliana na wakati mwingine tukawa tofauti sana. Lakini hiyo haikupi wewe haki yoyote ya kuanzeza kutengeneza vibao kama vile vya "Speak English" na kuanza kuvitundika kwenye shingo za watu kwa sababu watu hao hawaoni unavyoona wewe au hawataki kuona unavyoona wewe.

In the arena of ideas, it is health to have different and opposing ideas for it is in such atmosphere the best ideas would image and the best course of action taken. To demand that people should have certain ideas is inherently flawed and categorically wrong.

I hope you'll learn slowly to cherish different opionions badala ya kuona anayepingana na wewe au anayepinga unachosema basi ni mwanachama wa chama fulani na yawezekana haipendi nchi kama unayvoipenda wewe.

MKJJ: I rest my case. Maana nilitaka kusema nikakuta umeshasema yote. Thanks. Naamini itafika siku tutaanza kutofautiana kimawazo bila kumtuhumu mwenzako mwenye mawazo tofauti na wewe kwa chochote iwe ni uzalendo, ufisadi, n.k.

mwafrika wa kike said:

You always want somebody to explain your bluffs



You have been trying to get this forum into a tribal crash with little success but then out of blue you pretend to be above ... whatever you call!?!



Mhh, which GOD are you talking about here!

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MwK,
It will be a waste of time to debate with you anything unless you tune your messages to reflect your age.



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KJ.. hii mada ilikuwa nzuri sana lakini uliiacha ipoteze mwelekeo. Tusaidie turudi kwenye mada yenyewe.

Kubwajinga said:

MwK,
It will be a waste of time to debate with you anything unless you tune your messages to reflect your age.

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SOME TIMES I THINK SO TOO,FILLING THE JF DATABASES WITH CHEAPSHOTS, ADHOMINEMS, AND UNFORTUNATELY COSTING OUR GOOD INVISIBLE's PRECIOUS TIME TO PERFORM THE DATABASE AND SERVER UPGRADES AT THE TIME HE DIDN'T PLAN TO DO SO, COMING TO REALIZE THAT SOME OF THE REASONS IS BECAUSE OF THE MISUNDERSTAND AND THE MISUSE OF THE "WHERE WE DARE TALK OPENLY" SLOGAN, AND THE ILLUSIONED ATTENTION WHICH SHE SEEM TO ATTAIN OR DREAM ABOUT, LETS KEEP ON MOVING PERHAPS AKIKUA ATAACHA ,

gamba la nyoka

Mzee Mwanakijiji said:

It is sad that you question the patriotism of other people who seems not to agree with you. You do so by suggesting that because they don't discuss what you want them to discuss then they probably don't love the country the same way that you are. By doing so, you elevate yourself as the only one who loves the country more and dearly than anyone else. To you, anyone who does not dance at the call of your tune he is either partisan or unpatriotic.

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Mkuu MJJ, You are very wrong in this.
I have never questioned anyone’s patriotism, but I think you failed to differentiate between partisanship and patriotism. I am against partisanship that surpass national interests, and would suggest that you read my postings again.

Mzee Mwanakijiji said:

By doing so you are committing two fundamental errors:

Ya kwanza ni kujivika umonitor wa patriotism ya watu kwa sababu hawaimbi na kucheza ngoma yako na kwa vile hamuangaliani kwa hoja basi unaamini ya kwako ina nguvu zaidi and everyone should agree with you or do what you want them do instead of convincing them by the plausability and validity of your own arguments. You have failed to do so and resorted in name calling and put downs.

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Umonitor?? If not based on partisanship, I’ll take it. Otherwise, thanks for your consideration.

Debating is about enforcing ones point of view while hoping to win the argument. But in JF, ones different point of view or disagreement is always equated to ufisadi, and all those other slanderous names. This is really sad for our JF.

By the way, I haven’t called MJJ any derogatory name, but of course some of MJJ cheer leaders, Ref. to Mwafrika wa Kike and Asha’s postings, have called me some names.

La pili, ni kulazimisha hoja kwa kuamua kupachika watu lebo (branding and name calling), kwamba kama mtu mawazo yake ni kinyume na CCM basi basi ni mpinzani au Partisan na kama mtu anatetea msimamo au mawazo yanayolingana na ya chama fulani basi unampa uanachama wa chama hicho. To you there are no non-affiliated people; aidha mtu yuko kwenye CCM au yuko kwenye upinzani.

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Most of us are against CCM as well, but not all of us are pro particular party. MJJ, if your views are strongly towards a specific party, it is fine with me but also I don’t see if it is wrong for someone to highlight that. I have said b4 and I recollect here that you, MJJ, have shown to be sympathetic and even biased towards CHADEMA. This is how I observed your conduct in the JF and to highlight that I am sure is not equal to a name calling.

Mimi nimeshachukua msimamo wangu na msimamo wangu ni wangu. Wewe hutaki badala yake kama wenzio kabla yako umeona kuwa msimamo wangu unatetea Chadema na hivyo umeniona mimi ni mwanachadema ingawa nina uhakika hujui hilo na hakuna ushahidi wowote wa mimi kudai kuwa ni mwanachama wa chama fulani isipokuwa pale nilipoomba kadi ya CCM. Let me be very clear; nikiamua kujiunga na chama chochote itakuwa ni uamuzi wangu na sina sababu ya kuficha. Kama mawazo yangu yanakubaliana na mawazo ya chama fulani siwezi kuyakana mawazo yangu kwa sababu yanalingana na ya chama hicho. Kama fikra zangu zinakubaliana na mawazo ya mwanasiasa au kiongozi fulani, sioni ubaya wake na siwezi kuyakana kwa sababu nitaonekana "nafanana" na mtu fulani kifikra. Ni woga wa kutokukomaa kuficha mawazo yako kwa sababu utaonekana partisan.

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I accept the decisions you make and can’t alter any of them. But if they are always partisan, we’ll have to call them for what they are.

Kwa hiyo, tunapopingana kwa hoja ni lazima kuna wakati hatutakubaliana na wakati mwingine tukawa tofauti sana. Lakini hiyo haikupi wewe haki yoyote ya kuanzeza kutengeneza vibao kama vile vya "Speak English" na kuanza kuvitundika kwenye shingo za watu kwa sababu watu hao hawaoni unavyoona wewe au hawataki kuona unavyoona wewe.

In the arena of ideas, it is health to have different and opposing ideas for it is in such atmosphere the best ideas would image and the best course of action taken. To demand that people should have certain ideas is inherently flawed and categorically wrong.

I hope you'll learn slowly to cherish different opionions badala ya kuona anayepingana na wewe au anayepinga unachosema basi ni mwanachama wa chama fulani na yawezekana haipendi nchi kama unayvoipenda wewe.

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Mawazo tofauti ndo yanayojenga. Shida ya JF ni kuwa unapokuwa na mawazo tofauti, unabandikizwa majina. Nimeshabandikwa mengi na watu kama Mwnanamke wa Kike na Asha Abdala, lakini most of the time nimewapuuza. Hilo la kwako la “speak English” ndio nalisikia leo. Postings zangu haziko perfect, lakini najitahidi sana kutumia lugha nzuri iwezekanavyo hata pale ninapowajibu wenye karaha.


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gamba la nyoka said:

SOME TIMES I THINK SO TOO,FILLING THE JF DATABASES WITH CHEAPSHOTS, ADHOMINEMS, AND UNFORTUNATELY COSTING OUR GOOD INVISIBLE's PRECIOUS TIME TO PERFORM THE DATABASE AND SERVER UPGRADES AT THE TIME HE DIDN'T PLAN TO DO SO, COMING TO REALIZE THAT SOME OF THE REASONS IS BECAUSE OF THE MISUNDERSTAND AND THE MISUSE OF THE "WHERE WE DARE TALK OPENLY" SLOGAN, AND THE ILLUSIONED ATTENTION WHICH SHE SEEM TO ATTAIN OR DREAM ABOUT, LETS KEEP ON MOVING PERHAPS AKIKUA ATAACHA ,

gamba la nyoka

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"Ni haki yangu kuukataa uwongo kama ilivyo wajibu wangu kuukubali ukweli ,itakuwa ni makosa makubwa kuukataa ukweli eti kwa vile siupendi"-gamba la nyoka.

Matendo yako yanapingana na maneno yako. Kuna mahali mwafrika wa kike amesema uwongo? Kama ni ukweli tu basi una wajibu wa kumkubalia hata kama anakuchoma.

Asha

Kubwajinga said:

Mkuu MJJ, You are very wrong in this.
I have never questioned anyone’s patriotism, but I think you failed to differentiate between partisanship and patriotism. I am against partisanship that surpass national interests, and would suggest that you read my postings again.



Umonitor?? If not based on partisanship, I’ll take it. Otherwise, thanks for your consideration.

Debating is about enforcing ones point of view while hoping to win the argument. But in JF, ones different point of view or disagreement is always equated to ufisadi, and all those other slanderous names. This is really sad for our JF.

By the way, I haven’t called MJJ any derogatory name, but of course some of MJJ cheer leaders, Ref. to Mwafrika wa Kike and Asha’s postings, have called me some names.




Most of us are against CCM as well, but not all of us are pro particular party. MJJ, if your views are strongly towards a specific party, it is fine with me but also I don’t see if it is wrong for someone to highlight that. I have said b4 and I recollect here that you, MJJ, have shown to be sympathetic and even biased towards CHADEMA. This is how I observed your conduct in the JF and to highlight that I am sure is not equal to a name calling.


I accept the decisions you make and can’t alter any of them. But if they are always partisan, we’ll have to call them for what they are.


Mawazo tofauti ndo yanayojenga. Shida ya JF ni kuwa unapokuwa na mawazo tofauti, unabandikizwa majina. Nimeshabandikwa mengi na watu kama Mwnanamke wa Kike na Asha Abdala, lakini most of the time nimewapuuza. Hilo la kwako la “speak English” ndio nalisikia leo. Postings zangu haziko perfect, lakini najitahidi sana kutumia lugha nzuri iwezekanavyo hata pale ninapowajibu wenye karaha.


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Kupendwa ndio huku, kupendwa kuheshimiwa............ Nafurahi umeanza kujirudi na kupunguza ukali wa maneno yako pamoja na mashambulizi ya udini na ukabila. Hebu soma postings zako uone ulipokuwa unaelekea. Nilichofanya mimi ni "dawa ya moto, ni moto". Ulianza, nikamaliza. Muosha, huoshwa. Otherwise, enough is enough- let us stick to issues sasa, tuachane na mipasho.

Asha

Mzee Mwanakijiji said:

KJ.. hii mada ilikuwa nzuri sana lakini uliiacha ipoteze mwelekeo. Tusaidie turudi kwenye mada yenyewe.

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MJJ,
Hii niliimalizia vizuri kabisa kwa kumtaka Asha atuletee hiyo email iliyotoka CHADEMA, lakini sijui nini kilichotokea hadi hivi sasa.

Msg ilipotea tu pale nilipoanza kushambuliwa na kuitwa Fisadi n.k. Lakini jibu halisi halikupatikana maana Asha hakueleza tena kuhusu hiyo email wala hakurudia ile signature yake ya awali.



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Kubwajinga said:

MJJ,
Hii niliimalizia vizuri kabisa kwa kumtaka Asha atuletee hiyo email iliyotoka CHADEMA, lakini sijui nini kilichotokea hadi hivi sasa.

Msg ilipotea tu pale nilipoanza kushambuliwa na kuitwa Fisadi n.k. Lakini jibu halisi halikupatikana maana Asha hakueleza tena kuhusu hiyo email wala hakurudia ile signature yake ya awali.



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Nimemuandikia aliyeniandikia, ajieleze. Na nimemueleza kwamba ofisi ya habari na uenezi imekana kukataza. Nasubiri anijibu ndio nimeamua cha kufanya.

Asha