Elections 2010 Beyond Kikwete: Will the slighted Slaa be the star of the succession script?

MchunguZI said:
Ni ugonjwa usiotibika.
Nikisoma analyses zako naona kama umekuwa devil's advocate?

Ni vibaya kuandika au kuzungumza English ya kitanzania kweli? Hakuna varieties za English ktk dunia hii? British English, American English, Jamaican na hata pidgin english. What do these mean?

Hakuna haja ya kujilazimisha kuwa American wakati wewe ni m-tz

Binafsi iwe English au Kiswahili ukishatumia maneno ambayo ni uncommon nitakuona huelewi lengo la uandishi wako. Baadhi watakusifu lugha unaifahamau lakini ukweli ni ule ule kwamba ni uandishi wa kujifanya au kuigiza.

Hata Hotuba za bajeti ktk Bunge letu zitolewazo kwa Kiswahili, ziliwahi kuwa za aina hiyo. Lakini mambo yamerekebishwa sasa iweje wewe hutaki! Au ktk gazeti eti tuseme lugha anaifahamu. Is that the intention of calling himself a columnist.

Imetosha maana hukawii kutumia neno 'stupid.'
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The irony here is that, the same person who is brandishing his wrath of indignation at Ulimwengu for using what is deemed to be an inaccessible lingo - as if Ulimwengu was using Victorian English of the Dickensian diction, he wasn't even Churchillian!- the irony I was referring to lies in the fact that while Mchunguzi is lambasting Ulimwengu for using inaccessible English, Mchunguzi himself is cooking up a completely new "language" called Tanzanian English, with completely new sentence structures such as "Unless you are Ulimwengu but let him accept to be corrected" . The guy is advocating this new language, quite vehemently too, above all with no apologies.

Now who is being inaccessible here? Ulimwengu who is using standard English and a few words that will send you to the dictionary here and there (If you are Mchungu-Zii that is) or Mr Mchungu-Zii and his completely ungrammatical and "lost in translation" "English" ?

Why the double standards ?

If your principle is that writers should be accessible, you should write clear and grammatical English yourself, no double standards.

If it is OK for you to write your phoney baloney and call it "Tanzanian English" (Mzee Jongo anyone ? remember "ndiyo hiyo hiyo"), then it should be OK for Ulimwengu to write all the highfaluting English he wants.

Otherwise change your English and drop that less than globish galore gibberish garbage of gargantuan galons of gigabytes of goddamned gobbledygook and golden gaffes gagged to your guts.
 
Kiranga said:
If you expect any article from any angle then don't be surprised to see some ten dollar words in some articles, if you are surprised then you really do not "expect any article from any angle". Speaking of "expecting any article from any angle" what exactly do you mean ? You read like (i.e, the words you write make the impression that) you are making some direct translation from Swahili that does not make direct sense, do you mean that "You expect yourself to read any article from any angle" ? or do you mean "You expect Ulimwengu to write for people from any angle" ? Naona Kiingereza kinakutatiza kiujumla, na wala si swala la Ulimwengu kutumia maneno magumu.



Right, if you don't know the language or are living in an alternate universe.I suggest you boost your linguistic skills, I doubt you are living in an alternate universe, then again your brain may be.



Is this even a sentence ? I see it starts after a period and ends with a period, which should indicate that it is a full sentence, but it doesn't read like one for sure. Do you still think you have what it takes to determine what is the correct vocabulary that Mr. Ulimwengu should use ? There is a thread about graduates not being able to write good English, right here in JF, now I don't know if you are a graduate or not, but you certainly have all the hallmarks of a sample space of this phenomena in general.



I'm sorry I had to requote, but it was simply irresistible. Unless inaenda na but bila kitu kingine hapo katikati? Mwalimu wako wa Kiingereza nani uende kumdai sehemu ya ada yako unayoweza kuitoa katika somo la Kiingereza ?

This is another one of those choppy sentences that exposes you as someone who doesn't have the bare basics of English. I am no English Lit major or laureate of any sort but I can see that, c'mon for real ? "Unless you are Ulimwengu but let him accept to be corrected" Are you serious ? Did you meanto say I cannot speak for Ulimwengu and I should let him accept the correction/ respond? You lack more than English skills, you lack logical thinking, I was telling you that there is no correction at all, it is just your poor English skills. In any case, if you really want Ulimwengu to reply to your broken English carrying criticism, you should write to him, not to this board, his email is at the bottom of that article on the "The East African" website.

The minute you write something on JF, it is up for discussion by all JF members. Muulize Regia Mtema.



Unasoma "The Guardian" "The Economist" na "The New York Times" wewe? au unasoma "US Weekly" na kusema ni native English speakers magazine ?



By the way, when you are writing in English, our language is called "Swahili" not Kiswahili. Ki is a Swahili prefix that denotes almost all languages, this is why in Swahili, the language of the Sukuma is called "Kisukuma" of the Nyakyusa "Kinyakyusa" of the Zulu "KiZulu" of the Spanish "Kihispania" etc.

In English you do not have the prefix Ki to denote languages, that is why the English call the language of the Zulu "Zulu" or " the Zulu language" but never "Kizulu", when you start to use "Ki" you are not using English, you are reverting into Swahili.So if you are writing in English, the language of the Swahili is "Swahili" and not Kiswahili, when you are writing in Swahili, the language of the Swahili is Kiswahili, and not "Swahili". Don't get it twisted.


every word is part of the vocabulary of a language.



Mumbo jumbo, first off, he wrote, he wasn't speaking, so "non-spoken" words is misguided at best. If you can't deal with his vocabulary choice don't read him.Som of us are tired of the dumbing down and globish English that is out there, an Ulimwengu may prove refreshing to us. Remember what is "common English" to you need not be the same "common English" to me and Harith Mwapachu.



Before you assure me I assure you that there is no probability here, this is your weakness. And instead of asking Ulimwengu to dumb down his English, maybe the challenge is on your side to better yours.



Who told you that this is a newspaper for wide circulation ? Some people mind quality over quantity and you may be missing the point entirly by thinking this is for every Tom Dick and Mchunguzi (Mchunguzi asiyechunguza)



Trust me you haven't seen anything specialized, ni kama ulivyosema mwanzo kwamba una weakness ya lugha, sasa mtu ukishakuwa na weakness ya lugha unakuwa unaona kila kitu kama kipo specialized.

Unanikumbusha lile tangazo la biashara la kutangaza English course, Maimuna kapokea simu, anaambiwa

Caller: Hello, is that Goods Supplies Limited ?
Maimuna: Mimi Maimuna
Caller: Is that Goods Supplies Limited ??
Maimuna: Nimesema Maimuna
Caller : Is that Goods Supplies Limited !!!???
Maimuna: anaweka simu chini na kujisema mwenyewe, "anasema Kiingereza kigumu huyo"

Sasa angalia usije kuwa maimuna wetu hapa, mtu anaandika Kiingerza cha kawaida kabisa wewe unasema "anaandika Kiingereza kigumu huyu"
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From Slighted Slaa to Kiranja and mchuuzi!

I real enjoy this English Class....Mimi Maimuna!

Remove it again, whoever u r!
 
As far as I understand, Mr Ulimwengu looks at Slaa as a very small person in front of CCM particularly Kikwete. That means prematurity in terms of politics and in relation to the 2010 ellection. If that is the case, I am completely against his views. I can associate his views with the story of Goliat and Daud in the Old Testament. According to that story, Goliath was huge and strong but Daud was ‘slight'. As they were approaching a fight, it was expected that Goliat would easily defeat Daud, given the fact that Daud was slighted and Goliat was ‘stocky'. However, despite Goliat' stocky characteristics, Daudi defeated him very easily. I now tell Ulimwengu that it is not Slaa at all, it is the people's strength that will tell, just as it was not Daud himself but God's strength.
 
As far as I understand, Mr Ulimwengu looks at Slaa as a very small person in front of CCM particularly Kikwete. That means prematurity in terms of politics and in relation to the 2010 ellection. If that is the case, I am completely against his views. I can associate his views with the story of Goliat and Daud in the Old Testament. According to that story, Goliath was huge and strong but Daud was ‘slight’. As they were approaching a fight, it was expected that Goliat would easily defeat Daud, given the fact that Daud was slighted and Goliat was ‘stocky’. However, despite Goliat’ stocky characteristics, Daudi defeated him very easily. I now tell Ulimwengu that it is not Slaa at all, it is the people’s strength that will tell, just as it was not Daud himself but God’s strength.
 
Sikatai kwamba pamoja na sifa za mtu binafsi lakini ubora wa 'the system' pia unahitajika kutupeleka at least to the right direction (not necessarily to the destination). Natofautiana kabisa na notion kuwa hata tuchague mtu wa aina gani, as long as system is not good, hatakuwa na impact.

Naweza kufananisha na mfano rahisi tu kuwa uongozi wa hii nchi ni sawa na kuendesha gari.

Rais = Dereva

Wasaidizi wa raisi na viongozi wa serikali = Mafundi gari, Utingo na makondakta.

Chama, Katiba = Gari

Wananchi = Abiria

Kiwango cha uelewa wa watu, amani, = Barabara

Raslimali za asili = Mafuta ya gari

Kutokana na mfano huu bado naamini kila kimoja kina mchango katika maendeleo ya nchi, kwa hiyo hata aina dereva ni muhimu sana.
 
mzamifu said:
As far as I understand, Mr Ulimwengu looks at Slaa as a very small person in front of CCM particularly Kikwete. That means prematurity in terms of politics and in relation to the 2010 ellection. If that is the case, I am completely against his views. I can associate his views with the story of Goliat and Daud in the Old Testament. According to that story, Goliath was huge and strong but Daud was ‘slight'. As they were approaching a fight, it was expected that Goliat would easily defeat Daud, given the fact that Daud was slighted and Goliat was ‘stocky'. However, despite Goliat' stocky characteristics, Daudi defeated him very easily. I now tell Ulimwengu that it is not Slaa at all, it is the people's strength that will tell, just as it was not Daud himself but God's strength.
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Jamani kiingereza kigumu hata kwa wazamifu.

Ulimwengu hakusema Slaa ni mtu mdogo, amesema kwamba Slaa alidharauliwa na CCM mwaka 1995 aliposhinda kura za maoni za CCM lakini CCM haikumchagua kuwa mgombea ubunge, akahamia CHADEMA na kushinda.

Kama unaelewa anachosema Ulimwengu utaona kwamba"the slighted Slaa" maana yake ni "Slaa aliyedharauliwa" na wala si "Slaa mdogo" kama unavyodhani katika analogy yako ya David and Goliath ulivyoiandika.

Kwa hiyo "Beyond Kikwete: Will the slighted Slaa be the star of the succession script?" Maana yake " Nje ya Kikwete: Slaa aliyedharauliwa atakuwa nyota wa juzuu la urithi ?"

Ukisoma article utaona Ulimwengu anamsifu sana Slaa, kwamba kashinda ubunge baada ya kuhama chama hata baada ya kina Mkapa kum kampeinia mpinzani wake, na kuwaponda sana CCM kwa kukataa private candidates na kufanya upendeleo uliomfitini Slaa na kusababisha ahame chama.

Not to be conceited or anything
Neither prince nor a king
But sometimes I get the feeling I should charge a fee, gee
You the payer player, and I am the payee
But JF is for free,
So I spree pee on your tee and tea with wee wee, then flee like a bee.
Adios y'all.
 
hehehe kiranga naona umefungua English 101 sasa .............na ikabidi utumie lugha ya taifa kutoa maelezo ya ufafanuzi ya ziada.

back to the topic at hand................kwa mtazamo wangu ni kuwa slaa might have a future lakini iko mbali kwa sasa. sio katika uchaguzi huu kuwa rais. Safari hii Kikwete bado atachukua madara kwa njia yoyote ile iliyopo nikishuku kuwa hatahitaji kuiba kura na atashinda kihali ikichangiwa na kuwa

Sio watu wote waliotimiza masharti ya kupiga kura hupiga kura ( viajana wa kuanzia form 4 sijawasikia kupiga kura kwa bara),

wapinzani bado hawataki kukosolewa, ukimkosoa unapachikwa jina HATER, lakini sidhani kuwa huyo Slaa aliupata u-dr wake bila ya kukosolewa hata mara moja.

ikiwa vyama vya upinzani bado kuna majimbo havijatoa wagombea, kura za rais hapo pia zitakwenda kwa ccm.
 
Using new vocabulry is useful forus reades to learn. We always learn from new ideas or things. Ulimwengu is a long exerienced writer and journalst. his English is also good and advanced. Let us learn from his experience
 
Kiranga unaonaje ukianzisha utaratibu wa kufundisha hiki 'kikoloni' anagalau kw amuda fulani kwa siku.........lol!!

mimi nahisi kama unaudhika ukiona mtu haelewi kilichoandikwa kwa kiinglish. (ni hisia tu)
 
okay Iam sorry sikuwa makini nilipoona neno slighted. iam very sorry for that Nilposoma vivuri article nimeeona kosa langu
 
mzamifu said:
okay Iam sorry sikuwa makini nilipoona neno slighted. iam very sorry for that Nilposoma vivuri article nimeeona kosa langu
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I am sorry too for the overkill. Mzamifu watu tuliokosa "political correctness" tunakuita zungu la roho, likikosea halioni noma ku apologize profusely na ku backtrack vehemenly.

I hope you know I was just bantering.

In the hood huku watu ukiwaambia "Thank you" wanakukwida "umeniambia nini wewe? Umeniambia nini wewe" Mzamifu huwezi kukaa kabisa kwa machokoraa wetu.
 
Fanta said:
Kiranga unaonaje ukianzisha utaratibu wa kufundisha hiki 'kikoloni' anagalau kw amuda fulani kwa siku.........lol!!

mimi nahisi kama unaudhika ukiona mtu haelewi kilichoandikwa kwa kiinglish. (ni hisia tu)
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Mimi mwenyewe najifunza, kwa hiyo kuudhika mtu akikosea nitakuwa kichaa. It is not like I am some English major who belongs to "The Society For The Preservation Of The Oxford Comma" or anything like that (I refuse to shorten my text messages though, which is not so nearly just as bad).

Tatizo mtu anakosea, unamsahihisha halafu anakataa kusahihishwa, mpaka anakwambia "Hiki ni Kiingereza cha Tanzania" i.e, Mchungu-Zii. Anakuwa kama Mzee Jongo alivyokuwa anasema "Manyalia" akisahihishwa na kuambiwa siyo Manyalia ni Malaria, anasema "ndiyo hiyo hiyo, mi naijua nilikuwa nakujaribu tu nikuone kama na wewe unaijua"

Mzamifu hapo juu kaonyesha kwamba yeye mzamifu kweli, kukubali makosa na kujifunza, pia ku apologise kwa makosa. Hata kama amekosea unaona ana the right attitude kujifunza na ustaarabu kukubali ubinadamu.

Lugha si yetu kwa hiyo sishangai watu kukosea, hususan kwa sababu hata hiyo lugha yetu yenyewe bado tunakosea. Ila kukosea halafu kukataa kukosolewa ni kitu kingine.

Naona tushatoka kwenye ulimwengu wa Ulimwengu sasa tupo katika ulimwengu wa lugha.
 
It is sheer unbridled anarchy when Kiranga launches into his highfalutin rhetoric offensive....
 
Nyani Ngabu said:
It sheer unbridled anarchy when Kiranga launches into his highfalutin rhetoric offensive....
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It sheer unbridled AnArChY.... ?

Is that a typo or unaniangusha my debonair double diction dude, u been spending too much time in the gully or what's the what ma dude? Where that suave smooth sardonic style ?

Et tu Nyani Ngabu ?
 
Kiranga said:
Hujajibu swali langu la mwisho, kama watu hawana elimu ya uraia na mwamko wa siasa, watajuaje huyu ndiye mtu anayetufaa na huyu mbabaishaji?
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Elimu ya Uraia na mwamko wa kisiasa haviji kwa induction! Ni matokeo ya mipango iliyobuniwa na kusimamiwa kwa ukamilifu na uongozi ulio na hiari ya kufanya hivyo! Kwanini tunalalamika uzalendo unazidi kupungua? Iko wapi elimu ya siasa tuliokuwa tunafundishwa madarasani na nyimbo za kizalendo tulizokuwa tunaimba mashuleni!
Ni kweli kabisa taasisi ndio lengo hasa, lakini ni nani aliyetayari kuanza kuipalilia dhana hii? Ni mara ngapi wananchi wachache wenye mapenzi mema na nchii wamejaribu kuibua dhana hii ya uwajibikaji na wameishia kunyamazishwa? Ninachokisema mimi we can make our own Mandela maana wapo kati yetu. The skepticism kwamba utawajuaje, tutawatambua kwa matendo yao ikiwa hawasemi sawasawa tuwakataa tena na tena mpaka atakapopatikana. Prerequisite ya taasisi imara na za kiutendaji ni kuwa na viongozi waadilifu, wasio na chembe ubinafsi, na hizo sheria zinazosimamia uendeshaji wa taasisi hizi lazima ziwe enforced na watu waadilifu! Taasisi sio robot linalojiendesha lenyewe. Mwl Nyerere alisema wapo kati yetu! Na sisi wananchi yaani wewe na mimi tunawajibika kuchambua pumba na ngano na pia kuwaeleza wengine habari hii njema. Na mwisho wa siku tutifikia kaanani!
 
English grammar and structure aside, General Ulimwengu intended to deliver a message on the need for an independent candidate. He reminds us of the right to vote and be voted without being forced into political parties. I only wonder he avoided to comment on the ruling by the Appeal Court of Tanzania on the same..., which opened the darkest page in the history of our country. Between the lines, the conclusion is, perhaps CHADEMA wouldnt be this strong had there been freedom to stand in elections as independent candidate. That is the message I got from the article. Now, whether vocabularies were many it should not concern us. If I were Muchunguzi, I would have capitalized on this opportunity to improve my vocabulary.
 
Eliphaz the Temanite said:
Elimu ya Uraia na mwamko wa kisiasa haviji kwa induction! Ni matokeo ya mipango iliyobuniwa na kusimamiwa kwa ukamilifu na uongozi ulio na hiari ya kufanya hivyo! Kwanini tunalalamika uzalendo unazidi kupungua? Iko wapi elimu ya siasa tuliokuwa tunafundishwa madarasani na nyimbo za kizalendo tulizokuwa tunaimba mashuleni!
Ni kweli kabisa taasisi ndio lengo hasa, lakini ni nani aliyetayari kuanza kuipalilia dhana hii? Ni mara ngapi wananchi wachache wenye mapenzi mema na nchii wamejaribu kuibua dhana hii ya uwajibikaji na wameishia kunyamazishwa? Ninachokisema mimi we can make our own Mandela maana wapo kati yetu. The skepticism kwamba utawajuaje, tutawatambua kwa matendo yao ikiwa hawasemi sawasawa tuwakataa tena na tena mpaka atakapopatikana. Prerequisite ya taasisi imara na za kiutendaji ni kuwa na viongozi waadilifu, wasio na chembe ubinafsi, na hizo sheria zinazosimamia uendeshaji wa taasisi hizi lazima ziwe enforced na watu waadilifu! Taasisi sio robot linalojiendesha lenyewe. Mwl Nyerere alisema wapo kati yetu! Na sisi wananchi yaani wewe na mimi tunawajibika kuchambua pumba na ngano na pia kuwaeleza wengine habari hii njema. Na mwisho wa siku tutifikia kaanani!
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Sasa nishakuelewa, na nishaelewa tofauti yetu kimsingi iko wapi, na ni tofauti ya msingi.

Wewe unaamini kwa kumchagua kiongozi benevolent, kiongozi huyu ataenda pale juu na kufungua system, kutoa elimu kwa watu wajue mambo mengi zaidi etc na mwishowe watu watapata kujua zaidi na kuweza kuwa critical, kujenga institutions na kuendelea kuchagua viongozi wazuri.

Hii ni top down approach.

Guess what, freedom/ victory is never handed out on a silver platter, you have to fight for it and earn it. Ukisubiri kiongozi fulani mzuri aje kufungulia geti la elimu utasubiri milele.Kwanza experience inaonyesha uongozi wetu unaenda downhill badala ya kupanda juu in terms of quality, sasa unategemea nini? Alivyotoka Nyerere dikteta wa reja reja akaja huyo ruksa aliyekwishajichokea na kujiuzulu kwa uzembe akawa rais, alivyotoka huyo kaja mwizi Mkapa, alivyotoka huyo kaja huyu juha Kikwete, na siwezi kushangaa next ukiambiwa yule zuzu Pinda ndiye next.

Wakati wa siku za mwisho za Nyerere na njaa, kujifunga mkanda na maduka ya kaya (what y'all eighties babies know about unga wa Yanga) watu walikuwa wanasema kichini chini kwamba bora aje huyo Mwinyi rais wa Zanzibar, vitu vitakuwa rahisi kama Unguja. Akaja Mwinyi,w akati wa urais wa Mwinyi tuliamini hatutakuja kupata rais wa ovyo kama Mwinyi, guess what? tumempata Kikwete, na yeye atakuja kupitwa kwa ujuha, na hata tukichagua upinzani, upinzani hauna team ya kuendesha nchi nzima.

Mimi siamini hii, kwa sababu naamini power corrupts, ukubwa mtamu.Hata kama mtu alikuwa ana nia ya kufanya mambo akifika pale juu anakuta kumbe hata yeye mwenyewe akitaka kufanya mambo fulani anazungukwa na political system inayoweza kuwa haitaki changes. Imeripotiwa kwamba uchaguzi wa mwisho Zimbabwe Mugabe alikuwa wazi kuachia madaraka, lakini akaambiwa kaa hapo hapo mzee, waache watu wale nchi. Hii top down approach inataka mtu awe nabii au kichaa, watu ambao hatunao siku hizi, walishakwisha.

Mimi naamini katika bottom up, watu wanaanza kuelimika gradually, wanaona money economy inavyowafunga kama wafungwa magerezani wakati watu wako huru nchini mwao, watu wanapata civic education kutoka grassroot level, mtu anajua kutetea haki zake kutoka nyumbani kwake mpaka uchaguzi wa rais. This way kila mgombea urais anachambuliwa kiundani na kupigwa mkwala wa uhakika, na akiwa Ikulu anajua watu hawataki mchezo. hii mimi ndiyo naona inafaa.

Hiyo ya top down ndiyo imetupa kina Chuiluba na some might argue hata hawa marais wetu wote wa bongo ni hivyo hivyo, kwani wameahidi mengi lakini utekelezaji hakuna, kamba tupu. Kwa hiyo top down tushaona madhara yake, lip service nyingi, utendaji mdogo.

Hii bottom up hatujaijaribu, ndiyo kwanza naona CHADEMA wamejaribu "Operesheni Sangara". As megre as it sounds, nangoja kuona difference itakayofanya.

And Caanan is like the Selassian ideal, to be pursued but never attained. Hata wanyamwezi na miaka yao yote ya continuous and contentious democracy hawajafika bado
 
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