BAE won't refund money back to URT; will give it to charities!

[Steve Dii]

Steve D huoni kuna ushirikiano wa kimataifa (international relation) katika ku-cover hili soo la BAE? Ndio maana nasema kama UK haiko clean kwa kutofanya prosecution baada ya SFO kumaliza upelelezi kwa nini wanajifanya clean katika suala zima la kurejesha vijisenti? Why should one government pretend it is cleaner than the other government given that they eat/ate together as per international relations? What is the catch - Elections?

Kamanda, the two elections under way in either country are totally unrelated. At any moment whatsoever, I wouldn't dare bear in mind that grand gesture by BAE is somewhat linked to upcoming elections in UK. Labor has other compounding issues on the ground to worry about far from this corporate corruption scandal. However I can bet my last dime kwamba, hela hizo zingepelekwa moja kwa moja kwenye coffers za serikali - hakika asilimia kubwa ingelipotea kabla ya uchaguzi mkuu unaukuja. Something synonymous to mabillioni ya EPA yaliyosemakana kurudishwa.

Compa, it is quite fair to mention the issue of international relationship. Lakini ni mhimu kukumbuka kwamba waliopigwa faini na Amerika hapa ni BAE wala siyo UK government. The UK gov was just the endorser since bidhaa zilikuwa inauziwa serikali nyingine (URT)... The same thing I read about UK na Saudi Arabia; the culprit are BAE. Kuwageuzia ubao UK gov kwa ujumla wakati mijizi upande wetu bado inahudhuria bungeni ni kuonesha umarhuni wetu na jinsi tunavyopenda vya dezo. BAE have paid a fine to US and a token (alms) to Tz, sisi je walanguzi na wahujumu uchumi wetu tumewafanya nini?

 

[Companero]

SD nachomaanisha ni common interest gani inafanya UK na TZ governments zote zisitake kufanya prosecution? Hiyo ndiyo international relations nayoiongelea. It can only be because of mutual interest. UK hataki kujiumbua kortini. Na TZ hataki kujiumbua mahakamani. Hivyo wote hawataki kuumbuana. So, why give money to charity?

 

[Steve Dii]

SD nachomaanisha ni common interest gani inafanya UK na TZ governments zote zisitake kufanya prosecution? Hiyo ndiyo international relations nayoiongelea. It can only be because of mutual interest. UK hataki kujiumbua kortini. Na TZ hataki kujiumbua mahakamani. Hivyo wote hawataki kuumbuana. So, why give money to charity?

Totally agree. Kwani katika deal pande zotezote kuna wachafu.

Scandal nyingine ya BAE na Saudi Arabia huko Uingereza ilikuwa na kesi kwenye mahakama kuu yao, lakini kesi ikawa dropped kwa ushauri wa mwanasheria mkuu, kwa kigezo kwamba, kuna matter of national security yangelikuwa compromised kama kesi ingeendelea kufatiliwa.

Upande wa US sababu hii sijaisoma bado, BAE wameamua kutoa miphwedha kama fine ya hongo zao. Lakini wakati wanafatilia hili, SFO walikuwa walikuwa na madai mengine mengi on their hands kuhusiana na BAE, mojawapo likiwa hili la kuiuzia URT rada mbovu ya kijeshi kwa ajili ya matumizi ya kiraia. Hivyo BAE katika kutaka kujisafisha imefanya kujifanya msamalia mwema kwa kuilipa serikali yetu (na sasa thru charity).

Uwezekano mkubwa ni kwamba, SFO waliwataka wahalifu wetu waende huko Uingereza, na katika kutaka kuficha maovu, BAE wakaamua kulipa kwa charity ili viongozi waliofanikisha hilo huko UK wasiumbuliwe. SFO hawana mchezo na wako very independent kwa jinsi nilivyoelewa mpaka sasa.

 

[Masanja]

SD nachomaanisha ni common interest gani inafanya UK na TZ governments zote zisitake kufanya prosecution? Hiyo ndiyo international relations nayoiongelea. It can only be because of mutual interest. UK hataki kujiumbua kortini. Na TZ hataki kujiumbua mahakamani. Hivyo wote hawataki kuumbuana. So, why give money to charity?

Mkuu nadhani hapa inabidi uwe REALIST tuu. Hivi kweli unafikiri waingereza wanapoteza mda kufikiria matatizo yetu? Trust me you, kwa nchi masikini kama Tanzania hata ku-feature kwenye agenda ya vyama UK we dont. Simply put, we are too poor to be of any significance. Sema ambao wameshika bango hapa ni NGOs ambao wanatujua in and out kwamba we are pretenders but our people are dying...ndo maana hawaishi ku-quantify hii hela ingenunua net ngapi, ingewasomesha watu wangapi nk..all these are signs of poverty.

Flash back, angalia arms sale kwa Taiwan juzi na implication yake..harafu..jamani lets face it..hapa tunapiga kelelee...lakini how much is the amount in the equation? 40Million dollars! Ni umasikini wetu tuu..lakini hii ni hela ndogo kwa wenye nazo. Ndo maana...hata Blair supported it because he wanted to cut a deal for his friends working in BAE....Bottom line..ukiwa masikini inabidi "ujue kujipimia". Sasa Tanzania we are poor na bado tunataka kuishi kitajiri na matokea ndo hayo..imekula kwetu!

 

[Koba]

Hii ndio shukurani ya wahindi wa tanzania kutuingiza kwenye balaa hili.Kizazi nz kizazi kitatakiwa kulipa deni hili.Hivi hii serikali yetu na viongozi mafisadi mpaka lini.kwa nini mpaka leo Chenge anakazi bado au ndio uwajibikaji wa pamoja.wameiba wengi na sio chenge peke yake inaonekana mr mkapa anafahamu hilo

......acha stereotype na ubaguzi wewe sio wahindi wote wezi,kama wameiba ni wezi tuu sio kwa sababu ni wahindi,chenge ni msukuma/nyamwezi mbona hujasema ndio tatizo la wasukuma/nyamwezi,najua hata wewe hupendi kuitwa criminal,violent & lazy etc maana ndio imani ya wazungu wengi wenye akili fupi kama wewe ya kubandika label watu bila kufikiria.

 

[S.M.P2503]

Watu wa watu (SFO) wamefanya utafiti na kugundua kwamba matapeli wa fwedha za Rada baadhi yao ama walikuwa serikalini kama maofisa wa serikali ama wana ushawishi mkubwa serikalini Tanzania. Pia watafiti wamegundua kama walivyoambiwa na waziri mkuu Pinda kwamba nchi itayumba kama watuhumiwa wote wa ufisadi watakamata... Hivyo nafikiri tu kwamba wamegundua kama hizo fedha zitarudishwa serikalini ni wazi kwamba zitawarudia matapeli walewale waliohusika kwa namna moja ama nyingine katika kufanikisha dili la Rada... hivyo itakuwa ni kuwanufaisha mara mbili..
Pia wamegundua kwamba kama watashirikiana na serikali ya Tanzania ili mafisadi wa Rada wakamatwe basi Tanzania itayumba na mchele utakuwa umemwagwa kwenye kuku wengi hivyo nchi itayumba na kunaweza kutokea machafuko ambayo wao waliohusika na kumwaga mafwedha hayo watalaumiwa...
Katika kuzipeleka kwa Charity pia ni kiini macho kwani kila charity bongo itataka mgao na charity isiyopata mgao italalamika... pia kuna uwezekano wa kuzifungua charity hewa Tanzania na kuzipa fwedha kwa kamtindo ka Dowans au Richmond na badala yake fwedha kurudi kule kule zilikotokea...
Akina Chenge na Rashidi hawawezi kufikishwa mahakamani kwa kuwa BAE au SFO hazitakubali Kushirikiana na serikali ya Tanzania maana wamefanya pre-bargain deal na akina Vithlani ili washirikiane na SFO katika kutoa Ushahidi wa ushiriki wao ndo maana hadi sasa bado wanapeta...Hata kama kesi hii ikifikishwa mahakamani , tutayaona yaleyale ya Akina Millya na Sendeka kama mnaelewa maana yangu juu ya ushahidi kuwa wa kizembe ambao haukubaliki kimahakama...
Ngoma ni fainali ya uzeeni ... labda akina chengi wakizeeka wataanza kusema ukweli wao. Na kama fedha za Rada akina change wamezitafuna; tayari walisha zipeleka msalani na kinachosubiriwa ni kutafuta deal zingine... kelele za chura hazimzuii ng’ombe kunywa maji... ni hayo tu... wakuu... tutaandika mpaka lyamba lakini wahusika wataendelea kupeta tu na kuiingiza serikali katika hasara kubwa kwa maana wakishinda kesi wataifungulia serikali kesi ya malicious prosecution na kuomba fidia kubwa... Hawa usalama wa waifa ngoma hii wanaijua na wanachojaribu kufanya ni kutuliza ball tu ili wadanganyika wasahau... ni kama vile wapo hawapo kazini vile...

 

[Kiranga]

Ultimately, tunachoambiwa hapa ni kwamba.

Hili deal halijabumbulika kwa sababu ya effort za serikali ya Tanzania, actually, kama serikali ya Tanzania ingepata ilichotaka tusingejua lolote kuhusu hili dili.

Pia, hata hao BAE kurudisha pesa, si kwa juhudi za serikali ya Tanzania kurudishiwa hela zake.Ni kwa sababu Waingereza wenyewe wameona soo.

Sasa kama serikali ya Tanzania haikudai hizi fedha, na BAE haishurutishwi kurudisha hizi fedha kwenda serikali Tanzania, na kama BAE inaweza ku effect a PR coup by not associating with the corrupt Tanzanian government any further, BAE will get more bang for their buck if they do not associate with the TZ government.

 

[Ogah]

serikali ya Uingereza ilivurunda............inatafuta pa kutokea na serikali yetu haiwezi kuwa mahala pa wao kutokea............kwani despite substantial evidence za Chenge et al......hakuna hatua zozote za kuonyesha tuko serious na uozo huu .........so far hatua ambazo serikali yetu inazichukua zina muelekeo wa kuwasafisha majambazi..............

 

[Mzee Mwanakijiji]

nadhani watu wameshasahau mchango wetu kiduchu kwenye Bunge la Uingereza.. halafu kuna watu wana bowls za kutuuliza ati "tumeifanyia nini Tanzania".. what we did kwenye hili inazidi kwa kiasi kikubwa tu kilichofanywa na kina Hosea!!! thats why.. we will end up asking BAE to channel the money to the area of our liking.. just to piss some people off!!

 

[Companero]

Wa Kjj kwa nini unaongea kana kwamba hao sio kitu kimoja - unadhani wanatofautiana kuhusu wapi pa kuzipeleka hivyo vijisenti? Kwa nini watofautiane kwa hilo wakati hawajatofautiana kwa mengine? Au huoni hilo la kukubaliana kwa yote kuanzia kuto-prosecute? Kwa nini wawe pissed off when they are part of the deal?

 

[Mzee Mwanakijiji]

Wa Kjj kwa nini unaongea kana kwamba hao sio kitu kimoja - unadhani wanatofautiana kuhusu wapi pa kuzipeleka hivyo vijisenti? Kwa nini watofautiane kwa hilo wakati hawajatofautiana kwa mengine? Au huoni hilo la kukubaliana kwa yote kuanzia kuto-prosecute? Kwa nini wawe pissed off when they are part of the deal?

Komredi unajua Dowans ililipwa bilioni 40 kusafirisha majenereta yenye gharama ya kama bilioni 30 hivi, ambayo wanataka kuyauza kwa bilioni karibu 60 kwa Tanzania? Unajua kwanini hakuna mtu kwenye serikali yetu anayeta hizo bilioni 40 tulizowalipa zirudishwe huku wanajaribu kukubaliana bei ya kununua majenereta?

I really don't care waingereza wamefanya nini hata wasingerudisha kabisa wala nisingelalamika... hivyo lolote waingereza wanalifanya ni kwa ajili yao na kwa ajili yao tu. Ndio maana baada ya wao kusema watapitisha fedha kwenye charity hakuna mtu kwenye serikali ya TZ anayeweza kulazimisha, kupiga kelele au hata kupaza sauti kuwa hizo fedha zirudishwe serikalini.

 

[Companero]

Tukitishia kufanya prosecution hapa TZ basi hata UK watagwaya na kuturudishia vijisenti serikalini maana lazima hiyo prosecution itafungua Pandora Box litakalowaumbua na wao!

 

[Kasheshe]

Am just trying to say - what an indirect insult this is, kwani ujumbe kwenye hii move ni kwamba HAWAIAMINI SERIKALI YETU!! Do you really need to be a vicar to decipher what is being gesticulated?!!

I would like to ask you to go a little bit further. This is an INSULT to us as a NATION. And I'm just sorry b'se it seems you think it is only to the cabinet!!!

Even if it is a corrupt government, however you perceive it, but it is not a military government and neither a government installed by King x., it is a government elected by Tanzanians and 95%+ of cabinet ministers are members of parliament again elected by fellow Tanzanians from respective constituents. If they don't trust it/them, they don't trust YOU and ME.

Once again "THINK BIG"

Uzalendo wenu uko wapi? Mbona mwakubali kila analosema Mzungu? Whats wrong with you guys.​

Research released few weeks ago, revealed that Tanzanians are not trusting NGO's so what does this tells you, if that big chunk of amount will be channeled to these cr....
Remember at least in Government, Parliament will have something to say about and CAG green pen will definitely do something….​

 

[Mzee Mwanakijiji]

I would like to ask you to go a little bit further. This is an INSULT to us as a NATION. And I'm just sorry b'se it seems you think it is only to the cabinet!!!

Even if it is a corrupt government, however you perceive it, but it is not a military government and neither a government installed by King x., it is a government elected by Tanzanian and 95%+ of ministers are member of parliament again elected by fellow Tanzanians. If they don't trust it, they don't trust YOU and ME.

Once again "THINK BIG"

Uzalendo wenu uko wapi? Mbona mwakubali kila analosema Mzungu? Whats wrong with you guys.​

Research released few weeks ago, revealed that Tanzanians are not trusting NGO's so what does this tells you, if that big amount will be channeled to these cr.... Remember at least in Government, Parliament will have something to say about and CAG green pen will definitely do something….​

Hakuna uzalendo kwenye ufisadi. Serikali tuliyonayo siyo serikali ya kifalme ambayo tunatakiwa kuinga mkono katika mambo ya kipuuzi kwa kisingizio cha uzalendo. Serikali ikifanya mambo ya kijinga sisi wananchi ndio tuko juu ya serikali na tutaiambia hivyo pasipo kupepesa macho. Serikali inayoendeleza mfumo wa kifisadi ikioneshwa kuwa inachangia kuendelea kwa mfumo huo ni jukumu la wananchi kuijia juu, kuikemea na hata kutaka watu wawajibishwe siyo kuitwa kushika bendera na kupepea "nchi yangu nchi yangu".

Uzalendo wa kutetea ufisadi au kuufumbia macho ni uzalendo wa wanufaika wa mfumo wa ufisadi. Aibu ikiipata serikali haina maana imelipata taifa. Serikali ya Ujerumani under Hitler ilikuwa ni serikali mbaya lakini hatuwezi kuhumu wananchi wote wa Ujerumani wakati ule kuwa na hatia kwa sababu ya matendo ya serikali yao.

Wewe kama unataka kubeba bendera na kushangilia serikali ili kuonesha uzalendo unaweza kufanya hivyo maana ndiyo demokrasia. Na wale wenye kutaka kuipinga serikali yao kwa sababu inafanya mambo ya kipuuzi nao wanahaki hiyo; nayo ni demokrasia.

Lakini kutaka wote tuunganike kubeba vibendera kushangilia nchi yetu na kuifumbia macho serikali kwa kisingizio cha uzalendo ni kukejeli dhamira zetu na kujaribu kutufanya tupuuzie ukweli.

Mtu akisema kuwa haiamini serikali haina maana haamini wananchi wa Tanzania. Serikali siyo wananchi, na wananchi siyo serikali. Vyote viwili vinahusiana lakini kimoja kiko juu ya mwingine, na nipendekeze kwakko kuwa ni wa wananchi walio juu ya serikali siyo kinyume chake kama unavyoashiria.

 

[Mzee Mwanakijiji]

Tukitishia kufanya prosecution hapa TZ basi hata UK watagwaya na kuturudishia vijisenti serikalini maana lazima hiyo prosecution itafungua Pandora Box litakalowaumbua na wao!

hatuwezi kufanya prosecution yenye level hiyo.. utamuita Kikwete awe shahidi au mshtakiwa maana anahusika na ununuzi huu; utamuita Mkapa, Sumaye, Chenge, n.k really? Na nani huyo atakaleta mashtaka hayo

 

[Tom]

Ooh pole... selected charity organisations zitazirudisha hizo hela huko zilikotoka kwa njia ambazo huwezi ona... sawa na mchina anakuambia nitakupa msaada lakini ajiri mbeba zege mpaka mhandisi kutoka China!!! Yet unakenua meno kwamba umesaidiwa.

MM, Think Big, acha wivu ....

Si msaada mzuri, lakini ingalao huyo Mchina kakwachia hizo infrustructure MBOVU zilizosimama tayari kwa kampeni ya uchaguzi ufuatao, angekupa pesa wala hiyo miradi isingesimama.
Sina wivu. Lakini kwa TZ ilivyo, pesa toka BAE zikipewa NGO za hapa ndani hutajua pesa zimeenda wapi, ikipewa serikali zitafisadiwa na mafisadi watazihamishia kwenye account zao huko huko zilikotoka. Huo ndio Utanzania - yaani michosho tu.

Kidumu chama cha CCM.na serikali yake. Tunaongelea pesa kurudishwa BAE wakati wezi wetu bado ni maarufu serikalini na kwenye chama.

 

[Lole Gwakisa]

I will write a letter to BAE.. to congratulate them for this incredible good news.. haiwezekani mzembe atuzwe!

Haswaa!! you hit the nail on the head.
Nashangazwa sana na stance ya serikali yetu juu ya suala hili.
1) haitaki kulichunguza suala la rada
2) inajua fika kuwa waTanzania tumedhulumiwa
3) inajua fika wanaohusika na suala lenyewe

Kilio cha kutaka fedha ziredheshwe serikalini hakileti mantiki yoyote na ni ya kinafiki.
Serikali ungechunguza na kuleta taarifa kwa wananchi juu ya masuala hayo juu matatu wananchi wangewaunga mkono katika hili.
Vinginevyo its mere lip service

 

[Mdondoaji]

safi sana angalau wazungu wanaona madudu yanayotokea Tanzania.

 

[Luteni]

I would like to ask you to go a little bit further. This is an INSULT to us as a NATION. And I'm just sorry b'se it seems you think it is only to the cabinet!!!

Even if it is a corrupt government, however you perceive it, but it is not a military government and neither a government installed by King x., it is a government elected by Tanzanians and 95%+ of cabinet ministers are members of parliament again elected by fellow Tanzanians from respective constituents. If they don't trust it/them, they don't trust YOU and ME.

Once again "THINK BIG"

Uzalendo wenu uko wapi? Mbona mwakubali kila analosema Mzungu? Whats wrong with you guys.​

Research released few weeks ago, revealed that Tanzanians are not trusting NGO's so what does this tells you, if that big chunk of amount will be channeled to these cr....

Remember at least in Government, Parliament will have something to say about and CAG green pen will definitely do something….​

Let them not trust ME i do not trust my Goverment either

 

[Ben Saanane]

-Hivi article 46-53 ya Vienna convention inaongeaje kuhusu Invalidation of treaties ambazo kuna elements za Fraud,corruption etc?

-Ingewezekana tuakaona mkataba kati ya serikali na BAE halafu tuuchambue.Sijui interpretation ya huo mkataba ilikua vipi.Na huo mkataba ulikuwa eligible au ulikuwa published UN?