Baadaya ya JK na Banda kutoa kauli zao leo Kamati kukutana kuhusu mpaka kwenye ziwa Malawi

[bdo]

Na zile Latitude na Longtude alizotamka Membe alizitoa wapi? je wajumbe wa hio negotiation team ni akina nani? kama hizo Longitude na Latitude, na mengine aliyoyasema siku hio Membe yalikuwa ni ya Uongo? au Kikwete alikutana na huyo mama wa Malawi akiwa hajajiandaa (was a surprise meeting?).

 

[bdo]

Kwa mimi mzaliwa na niishie matema naipa serikali option mbili kwaza ni kuclaim na kuweka clear nusu ya ziwa ni mali ya TZ au kutuacha tuwe wananchi wa malawi lakini vinginevyo hakuna solution hata wakiwapa wamalawi hilo ziwa sisi hatutakubali.

Hata sina uhakika kama hao wawakilishi wetu huko kwenye kikao wana-agenda yoyote, sana inawezekana wakawa wasikilizaji na kupewa maagizo, iwapo nasikia Rais alinyamaza kimya alipoambiwa na yule mama kuwa ziwa Nyasa ni la Malawi kwa 100%

 

[sajosojo]

Eti wamalawi waturuhusu tu kunywa na kuoga tu ziwani ziwa tulilozaliwa nalo hiki si kichekesho jamani tunataka tutumie resource za ziwa letu fairly kama ni hiyo mikataba ya wakoloni mbona rwanda na burundi hatuzidai?Maana ramani ya wakoloni hizo ni za Tz

 

[jogi]

By Azipa<br />
Unaposema nisome international bilateral treaty nicompare na riparian rights kwa dhumuni gani?

<br />
<br />
Treaty ni makubaliano. Makubaliano ya nguvu ya kwanza kabla ya lolote. Riparian right unazosema zimekuja baada ya makubaliano ya 1890.

nani hao waliokubaliana, naomba kwa hisani ya JF uzitaje nchi zilikuwa refered na hayo makubaliano, nakuapia nchi hizo hazipo duniani, ndio maana ni rahisi kuwagaragaza hawa wamalawi, hata nikiwa peke yangu.

 

[Nikupateje]

nani hao waliokubaliana, naomba kwa hisani ya JF uzitaje nchi zilikuwa refered na hayo makubaliano, nakuapia nchi hizo hazipo duniani, ndio maana ni rahisi kuwagaragaza hawa wamalawi, hata nikiwa peke yangu.

Anglo-Germany = United Kingom and Germany.

 

[MkamaP]

Kuna mdau mmoja humu alisema hii Heligoland treaty, haikugawa ziwa, yani mipaka kila nchi ilikuwa inaishia kwa shoe. Hebu tuleteeni hiyo kitu sijui Heligoland treaty, inayosema malawi inaishia kwa shoe ya east ya ziwa nyasa.

 

[MkamaP]

Nisaidieni labda tatizo ni ki BBC, wajameni hasa hapo kwenye blue. inaonekana kama wajerumani walikuwa wanamiliki hadi kwa west ya ziwa,sasa the so called heligoland treaty ikawalazimisha kusogeza mipaka kwa east ya ziwa nyasa, maana wasingeweka katikati kwa sababu ziwa lilikuwa ni free, sio mali ya mtu. KWa logic hii hata malawi nafikiri nao mpaka wao ulikuwa west mwa ziwa nyasa. Hata hivyo, naomba ndocs za heligoland inayosema malawi mpaka wake ni east mwa ziwa nyasa.

What was the Heligoland Treaty?
In return for the island of Heligoland the British Prime Pinister, Salisbury, demanded several things: that Germany recognise the British protectorate over Zanzibar and Pemba (previously a semi-independent Sultanate), that Germany renounce its claims to the regions of Witu and Uganda (a clause which aggravated Carl Peters tremendously), that Britain have access between Lake Tanganyika and Uganda, and that Germany leave the region to the west of Lake Nyasa to Britain. Despite the Kasier's overwhelming desire to obtain Heligoland, the German ambassador, Count Hatzfeld, managed to obtain a few concessions.

 

[Sigma]

watanzania hatujui tunalolitaka

 

[katitu]

Mimi nawashangaa watu mnaojadili kuwa ziwa nyasa lote ni mali ya malawi.Na kama ndivyo tuelezeeni watu wa lituhi,mbaha,rundu,nkili,njambe n.k ni watu wa malawi au wa tanzania?mimi wakati nasoma shule ya msingi tulikuwa tunachora mpaka wa ziwa nyasa kuanzia kyela ukishuka hadi ruvuma.tulikuwa tunapitisha mstari katikati ya ziwa nyssa.na ziwa linaendelea hadi karibu na msumbiji.sasa tulikuwa tunadanganywa kuhusu somo la jiografia?je mbona issue hii inapata msukumo mkubwa wakati na mbona hakuongea wakati banda anasogeza meli zake upande wa wilaya ya mbinga na kuonywa na marehemu JK Nyerere?

 

[MkamaP]

Nisaidieni labda tatizo ni ki BBC, wajameni hasa hapo kwenye blue. inaonekana kama wajerumani walikuwa wanamiliki hadi kwa west ya ziwa,sasa the so called heligoland treaty ikawalazimisha kusogeza mipaka kwa east ya ziwa nyasa, maana wasingeweka katikati kwa sababu ziwa lilikuwa ni free, sio mali ya mtu. KWa logic hii hata malawi nafikiri nao mpaka wao ulikuwa west mwa ziwa nyasa. Hata hivyo, naomba ndocs za heligoland inayosema malawi mpaka wake ni east mwa ziwa nyasa.

What was the Heligoland Treaty?
In return for the island of Heligoland the British Prime Pinister, Salisbury, demanded several things: that Germany recognise the British protectorate over Zanzibar and Pemba (previously a semi-independent Sultanate), that Germany renounce its claims to the regions of Witu and Uganda (a clause which aggravated Carl Peters tremendously), that Britain have access between Lake Tanganyika and Uganda, and that Germany leave the region to the west of Lake Nyasa to Britain. Despite the Kasier's overwhelming desire to obtain Heligoland, the German ambassador, Count Hatzfeld, managed to obtain a few concessions.

Nikupateje
Tafadhari kama una docs yoyote inayosema malawi wana mpaka kwa east ya ziwa naomba utumwagia hapa. Conde chonde

 

[zumbemkuu]

Nikupateje
Tafadhari kama una docs yoyote inayosema malawi wana mpaka kwa east ya ziwa naomba utumwagia hapa. Conde chonde

huyo mmalawi hawezi kuja na majibu, ni kibaraka wa wamalawi hapa tz. ukitaka kumjua zaid fuatilia posts zake,
hata likes zake anazitoa kwa wale wanaounga mkono malawi tu,

 

[Ukana Shilungo]

hoja yako ndugu nikupateje nimeielewa vizuri. Hili la kusema watu ni wavivu wa kusoma si kweli kwa wote kwani taarifa kama hizi ni za ndani sana kwani hata katika vitabu vya historia vilivyopo ni vigumu kuzipata. Labda kwa kina lowasa na membe walipaswa kutafuta habari juu ya hili ndipo watoe matamko yao.
Labda ungeonyesha mustakbali wa hali hii yaani je, matokeo ya mjadala huu ni tz kusalimu amri? Je, wale wakazi waishio ukingoni mwa lake nyasaupande wa tz itakuwaje maana wengi wanapata kuishi kutokana na hilo ziwa. Mimi naona hivi kuwa ikiwa kizazi chochote mwanzo wake wa kuishi ni katika mazingira fulan kama lilivo ziwa nyasa mazingira hayo yanapaswa kuwa ni mali ya kizazi hicho kwa sababu kinyume cha hivo kizazi hicho hakitaweza kuendelea kuishi. Kwa mantiki hii ziwa nyasa ni lazima liwe mali ya watu wote ambao wamekuwa wakiishi kando ya ziwa hili tangu kale kabla ya mkataba wa heligoland wa 1890 hadi sasa. Nini maoni yako?

itakuwa ni upumbavu na ujinga kurefer heligoland treaty,katika historia tumesoma kuwa mipaka iliyowekwa na wakoloni ilikuwa kwa maslahi yao na sio makubalioano na natives,ndio maana utaona kuna wamakonde tanzania na msumbiji,maasai tanzania na kenya,people with the same ethenic group were separated,toward colonial masters need,hapa issue kubwa ni suala la un inasema nini juu ya nchi zinapokutana na water bodies,ni ninusu kwa nusu mfano lake nyanza victoria.solution kma joyce banda anakomaa ziwa lote ni lao dawa ni kusogeza vikosi atakayevuka adundwe,ikibidi kuvuka kuikalia malawi kwa miezi angalau sita,waanze upya kudai uhuru toka tanzania,tukiwapa ndio sisi tufanye kama wao kutangaza kuwa ziwa lote ni mali ya tanzania.

 

[Nikupateje]

Nikupateje
Tafadhari kama una docs yoyote inayosema malawi wana mpaka kwa east ya ziwa naomba utumwagia hapa. Conde chonde

Binafsi nimeshachoka na hata wengi walio-quote text zote za Heligoland treaty nadhani wameshachoka kuzileta humu. Kilichobaki kama wote mna uvivu wa kupitia post zote zinazohusu Malawi mkaona maelezo basi sisi na mimi binafsi si wa kuendekeza hilo tatizo lenu la uvivu huo.

Tulijifunza kwamba darasani kwamba hata somo lirudiwe kufundishwa mara 30 lazima kuna mtu atapa zero!!

 

[MkamaP]

Binafsi nimeshachoka na hata wengi walio-quote text zote za Heligoland treaty nadhani wameshachoka kuzileta humu. Kilichobaki kama wote mna uvivu wa kupitia post zote zinazohusu Malawi mkaona maelezo basi sisi na mimi binafsi si wa kuendekeza hilo tatizo lenu la uvivu huo.

Tulijifunza kwamba darasani kwamba hata somo lirudiwe kufundishwa mara 30 lazima kuna mtu atapa zero!!

Dr Shija alipata zero Bwiru boys, akarudia mtihani mpaka akafanya phd. Kupata zero sio total failure, inaweza kuwa ndo chachu ya mafanikio.

Ukubwa wa pua si wingi wa kamasi. Kusoma mi-thread yote kwa sababu ya kutafuta mpaka wa malawi unaoonyesha uko east mwa ziwa, sisi ma-Engineer tunasema si efficient, efficiency yake yawezekana ni 0.0009%, wakati ukishusha hapa hicho kipengele inakuwa 99.9%

Wewe unafikiri wanaolima shamba dogo kwa kisasa na kupata mazao lukuki ni wavivu kulinganisha na wale wanalima shamba kubwa na kupata mazao hafifu?

Lete tena hogoland treaty, inayoonyesha mpaka wa malawi ni east mwa ziwa, maana napouliza hivi tunajifunza na kurekebisha.

 

[MkamaP]

Scope during colonial legacy​

Britain and Germany made some administrative amendments along the Malawi-Tanzaniaborder before 1914, and both realms shared the lake prior to the First World War (WWI).Colonial powers deployed gunboats in Lake Nyasa before the war. On August 13, 1914, the British gunboat Guendolen destroyed the German gunboat Hermann Von Wissmann atSphinxhaven in Lake Nyasa.For no apparent reason, the British colonial administration placed the lake's entire watersurface under the authority of the territory of Nyasaland. This is the origin of the post WWI disagreement.Germany lost its colony in East Africa after its defeat in the WWI. The United Kingdom (UK) heldon to Malawi and, at the same time, the League of Nations Mandate, entrusted Britain with the management of Tanganyika Territory, the former German East Africa colony. Britain could have solved the border dispute between Malawi and Tanzania like it did the dispute between Malawiand Mozambique; however, Britain did not pay suitable attention to the issue on the Tanzanian side. Furthermore the British maps used while ruling both countries were ambiguous. Even​

today, maps are not reliable; some of them designate the boundary at the Eastern side of Lake

 

[Nikupateje]

Dr Shija alipata zero Bwiru boys, akarudia mtihani mpaka akafanya phd. Kupata zero sio total failure, inaweza kuwa ndo chachu ya mafanikio.

Ukubwa wa pua si wingi wa kamasi. Kusoma mi-thread yote kwa sababu ya kutafuta mpaka wa malawi unaoonyesha uko east mwa ziwa, sisi ma-Engineer tunasema si efficient, efficiency yake yawezekana ni 0.0009%, wakati ukishusha hapa hicho kipengele inakuwa 99.9%

Wewe unafikiri wanaolima shamba dogo kwa kisasa na kupata mazao lukuki ni wavivu kulinganisha na wale wanalima shamba kubwa na kupata mazao hafifu?

Lete tena hogoland treaty, inayoonyesha mpaka wa malawi ni east mwa ziwa, maana napouliza hivi tunajifunza na kurekebisha.

Soma hansard ya bunge ya June 11, 1962 walau itakusaidia halafu rudi tuungane behewa tulilomo.

 

[Nikupateje]

Scope during colonial legacy​

Britain and Germany made some administrative amendments along the Malawi-Tanzaniaborder before 1914, and both realms shared the lake prior to the First World War (WWI).Colonial powers deployed gunboats in Lake Nyasa before the war. On August 13, 1914, the British gunboat Guendolen destroyed the German gunboat Hermann Von Wissmann atSphinxhaven in Lake Nyasa.For no apparent reason, the British colonial administration placed the lake's entire watersurface under the authority of the territory of Nyasaland. This is the origin of the post WWI disagreement.Germany lost its colony in East Africa after its defeat in the WWI. The United Kingdom (UK) heldon to Malawi and, at the same time, the League of Nations Mandate, entrusted Britain with the management of Tanganyika Territory, the former German East Africa colony. Britain could have solved the border dispute between Malawi and Tanzania like it did the dispute between Malawiand Mozambique; however, Britain did not pay suitable attention to the issue on the Tanzanian side. Furthermore the British maps used while ruling both countries were ambiguous. Even​

today, maps are not reliable; some of them designate the boundary at the Eastern side of Lake

Haya yote ni marudio ya tulivyokwisha kusoma na kuchambua. TUmeona hayasaidii kwa sababu ni taarifa za documents tu wala hazionyeshi ni text ya agreement kama tulivyosoma text yote ya Heligoland-1890.

 

[Reginald12]

Hiyo link futa space kati ya // na www na kati ya www. na jstor inanigomea kuweka link ya kitabu cha Mayall kuhusu Mpaka wa TZ na Malawi.

http:// www. jstor.org/discover/10.2307/161618?uid=3739224&uid=2&uid=4&sid=21100995012923

 

[MkamaP]

Haya yote ni marudio ya tulivyokwisha kusoma na kuchambua. TUmeona hayasaidii kwa sababu ni taarifa za documents tu wala hazionyeshi ni text ya agreement kama tulivyosoma text yote ya Heligoland-1890.

Okay, lakini yatasaidia tu, wewe si ume base pale waingereza walipobadili mipaka kinyemela. Ndio maana nakwambia utuletee docs ambayo inaonyesha kati ya mwingereza-mjerumani walikubaliana mipaka wa malawi uwe east kwa ziwa.

Mabadiliko yoyote yaliyofanywa na waingereza ni mabadiliko yaki-insane, maana hawakuwa na mandate hiyo tena.

Na je tukiajili waholazi wakaanza kulikausha ziwa ama kulihamisha ziwa taratibu, mipaka si itatabulika ziwa linapokomea? Kama kuna mafuta ndani ya ziwa hilo, basi Tanzania ikubali mipaka iwe ufukweni harafu walete wataalamu waambie wachimbe mafuta bure, ila wafanye kazi tu ya kulisogeza ziwa mbali. Si kila utakapokuwa ufukwe ndo mpaka.

 

[Nikupateje]

Okay, lakini yatasaidia tu, wewe si ume base pale waingereza walipobadili mipaka kinyemela. Ndio maana nakwambia utuletee docs ambayo inaonyesha kati ya mwingereza-mjerumani walikubaliana mipaka wa malawi uwe east kwa ziwa.

Mabadiliko yoyote yaliyofanywa na waingereza ni mabadiliko yaki-insane, maana hawakuwa na mandate hiyo tena.

Na je tukiajili waholazi wakaanza kulikausha ziwa ama kulihamisha ziwa taratibu, mipaka si itatabulika ziwa linapokomea? Kama kuna mafuta ndani ya ziwa hilo, basi Tanzania ikubali mipaka iwe ufukweni harafu walete wataalamu waambie wachimbe mafuta bure, ila wafanye kazi tu ya kulisogeza ziwa mbali. Si kila utakapokuwa ufukwe ndo mpaka.

Thats why a merely newspaper text can't overule the 1890 treaty!