Why not use UN Arusha Court?

[MzalendoHalisi]

JF,

In post 2007/08 Kenyan elections, about 1,300 were killed, and another 500,000 displaced after the bungled presidential elections.


1. Since it is becoming very difficult and taking so long to get those involved in indictment of masterminds killings to be prosecuted in Kenya....

2. Since establishing such a court in Kenya practically speaking is like asking the Kibaki government to investigate itself!

3. Since even the Kenyan Parliament voted not in favour in establishing such a court in Kenya for fear of interference by Politicians, and can be manipulated by politicians and luck of trust on Kenyan Judicial System!

Why not use the current UN court in Arusha? After all the Arusha court is supposed to close this year and they have experience and infrastructure to deal with such killings!

JF: What is your opinion?

 

[Masanja]

JF,

In post 2007/08 Kenyan elections, about 1,300 were killed, and another 500,000 displaced after the bungled presidential elections.


1. Since it is becoming very difficult and taking so long to get those involved in indictment of masterminds killings to be prosecuted in Kenya....

2. Since establishing such a court in Kenya practically speaking is like asking the Kibaki government to investigate itself!

3. Since even the Kenyan Parliament voted not in favour in establishing such a court in Kenya for fear of interference by Politicians, and can be manipulated by politicians and luck of trust on Kenyan Judicial System!

Why not use the current UN court in Arusha? After all the Arusha court is supposed to close this year and they have experience and infrastructure to deal with such killings!

JF: What is your opinion?

Mzalendo hii kitu ni ngumu. Kwa sababu:

1. Kuanzisha court kama ile inahitaji pesa nyingi sana ambazo UN Member states are not ready to provide. Na kama unafuatilia politics za hizi tribunals wakubwa wanazianzisha pale wanapotaka kukwepa aibu ya kutozuia mauaji in the first place kama Rwanda, Yugoslavia nk. Kama ingekuwa ni fair game..leo ungekuwa na tribunal za kuangalia mauaji huko Angola au Liberia..but its "real politik" za wakubwa.

2. Itabidi uende Security Council kuomba resolution ya kuanzisha hiyo mahakama. AND such motion will just be dead on arrival. Hakuna nchi ambayo itakubali kuanzisha mahakama kuangalia uchaguzi wa Kenya. Especially China na Russia...wanaichukulia hiyo kama internal affairs.

3. France na Britain viler vile hawawezi kukubali kupitisha resolution kama hiyo, wakati kuna mahakama inayoitwa ICC ambako wanalipa pesa nyingi kila mwaka huko The Hague.

4. Ndo maana Kofi Annan alisuggest hili swala la Kenya lipelekwe ICC..maana ile ni independent court ambayo huhitaji kwenda Security Council. Na Prosecutor akishaona kwamba kuna evidence anaweza kufungua kesi bila urasimu wa UN Security Council. So far ICC ina wananchama 108 Kenya ikiwa mojawapo. Kwa hiyo any international prosecution will be in The Hague AND NO WHERE ELSE. Atleast as the matter stands now.

 

[MzalendoHalisi]

Massanja,

Basi AU iwe na Court yake ya kushughulikia matataizo yetu Afrika kuliko kule The Hague!

Haya matatizo ya Mauaji DRC, Darfur na hata Kenya sii bora sisi wenyewe Waafrika tukatumia court kama ya Arusha baada ya UN kumaliza shughuli zao?

My argument is why all the way to The Hague? sii gharama tu zaidi!

Another alternative ICC basi ifungue matawi sehemu mbali2 Duniani na may be Arusha iwe tawi mijawapo!

Yaani kama tuna matatizo Afrika sii lazima mtu upelekwe Ulaya ukahukumiwe kule!

 

[WomanOfSubstance]

Mkuu,
kama ni Arusha court kama kichwa cha mada yako kinavyosema, kumbuka hii mahakama ya ICTR Arusha ilianzishwa specifically for the Rwanda genocide with its specificities .Hivo basi jurisdiction au mamlaka inaishia na kesi za Rwanda tu.The Hague ndiyo for the time being yenye hiyo jurisdiction ya kusikiliza mashtaka kama ya kilichotokea Kenya.Alternatively basi ni kuanzisha another specific court which among other things will be very expensive na kuna milolongo kama alivyosema Masanja hapo juu.

 

[Masanja]

Massanja,

Basi AU iwe na Court yake ya kushughulikia matataizo yetu Afrika kuliko kule The Hague!

Haya matatizo ya Mauaji DRC, Darfur na hata Kenya sii bora sisi wenyewe Waafrika tukatumia court kama ya Arusha baada ya UN kumaliza shughuli zao?

My argument is why all the way to The Hague? sii gharama tu zaidi!

Another alternative ICC basi ifungue matawi sehemu mbali2 Duniani na may be Arusha iwe tawi mijawapo!

Yaani kama tuna matatizo Afrika sii lazima mtu upelekwe Ulaya ukahukumiwe kule!

Mkuu unafikiri waafrika tunaweza nini? yaani sisi tunataka vya mtelemko. Are we ready to invest such significant resources in the name of justice? I doubt..

.all in all..ikianzishwa Africa..unafikiri kuna kiongozi atakayesimama mbele ya hiyo mahakama? itakuwa ya akina Masanja na kapuku wengineo kama mimi..Ndo maana wanaogopa huko The Hague..maana huko kuna wanaume wenye balls kama akina Bashir..haoni aibu kukusweka gerezani. Ni mahakama gani Afrika inaweza kumpeleka Mugabe mahakamani nau BASHIR?

Hiyo ICC..hata sisi Waafrika tulishiriki kuianzisha (sasa hivi ICC ina wanachama 30 kutoka Africa). Tatizo viongozi wetu hawakujua kwamba watakuwa wa kwanza kuwekwa kizimbani. Sasa hivI ndo wanalalamika kwamba ICC inaonea waafrika..lakini..ingemkamata Masanja au wewe..kila kiongozi angesema hiyo ndo rule of law!

Kuhusu kuanzisha matawi..well..I agree with you. Infact nimeandika paper..nadhani itakuwa published somewhere in Western Europe these coming days kuhusu hili.....I have tried to build my case on similar grounds kama unavyosema ICC ianzishe matawi Africa na kwingineko...