Why I am Not A Christian - Bertrand Russell
Why I am Not A Christian - Bertrand Russell
- Thread starter Bluray
- Start date
The Boss
JF-Expert Member
- Aug 18, 2009
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Blueray...
Nakushauri kufanya research pia kwenye uislam...
Naona research zako zote za kukataa kuwepo kwa mungu
zime base kwenye ukristo zaidi....
Almost all atheists were christians before.including you.
Wachache kama wapo ambao walikuwa waislamu.
Nakushauri kufanya research pia kwenye uislam...
Naona research zako zote za kukataa kuwepo kwa mungu
zime base kwenye ukristo zaidi....
Almost all atheists were christians before.including you.
Wachache kama wapo ambao walikuwa waislamu.
Bluray
JF-Expert Member
- Mar 25, 2008
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- #203
Hapa kunatug-of war kati ya ukweli na tradition, ukweli unaweza kuchukua muda kukubalika, lakini mwisho wake ukweli mara zote hujitenga tu na kujulikana.
Angalia figures za attendance makanisani/misikitini.utaona nchi zisizoendelea kiuchumi/viwanda/ elimu ndiyo zinaongoza kwa kuzingatia mambo ya dini, hususan attendance makanisani. Wenzetu walioendelea mapema washashtukia dini miyeyu tu na sanasana wanaenda kanisani mara mbili kwa mwaka Easter na Christmas, and the occassional funeral/ wedding.Dini inakuwa kama tradition tu lakini watu hawaamini.
Sie tunakazania na imani tu.Wakina Eisntein wayahudi wenyewe washakwambia the personalm god is a myth.
Bluray
JF-Expert Member
- Mar 25, 2008
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- #204
Uislamu, kwa mtu anayejua historia za dini, ni offshoot ya ukristo na uyahudi.Mzizi wa uislam ni Muhammad alipoona kuwa wakristo na wayahudi wana vitabu vya dini lakini waarabu hawana kitabu cha kuwaunganisha, mtume mwenyewe akasema " we have to be like the people of the book".Sasa alipoanza kuandika Quran -yes ali dictate kwa kuwa alikuwa illiterate, na wala haikushushwa kutoka kwa mungu, hakuna mungu sasa ingeshushwaje?- .So alipoanza ku dictate tayari kulikuwa na Cosmology na Cosmogony iliyokubalika, na rather than to start from scratch with a new Cosmology, Cosmogony and cast of characters, yeye akalift tu parts za the then existing traditions, ndiyo maana waislam wana nabii Adam, wana nabii Issa etc.
Ndiyo maana sisemi "Christian god" nasema "Judeo-Christian" god. Kwa mtu anayejua designation hii ya Judeo-Christian na historia yake atajua tofauti nyingi za hii na uislam ni superficial tu na si fundamental.kwa mfano, tofauti za Ukristo/Uyahudi ukizilinganisha na tofauti za Uislam on the one hand, halafu ukaweka on the other hand tofauti za Uyahudi/Ukristo na ubudha, utaona kuna fundamental differences between Uyahudi/Ukristo na ubudha kuliko tofauti za Uyahudi/Ukristo na Uislamu.
Na nilishasema hapo mwanzo kwamba, ninaposema "Judeo-Christian" namaanisha Uyahudi, Ukristo na Uislam. Mathalani, dini zote tatu zinaamini katika mungu mmoja (wakristo wana utata wa utatu, lakini kimsingi wana spin kwamba ni mungu mmoja mwenye nafsi tatu) ma budha hawaamini katika mungu ila wanaamini kwamba kila mtu ana hali ya uungu na anaweza kuwa Buddha.Big difference.
Sababu nyingine naona waislam hawako coherent (not that wakristo wako that much coherent anyway) ila waislam wana institutionalized incoherency kiasi wanakwambia kabisa kwamba kama kuna mistari ina inconsistency tumia ule wa mwisho, sasa kitabu cha mungu hicho?
The reason nina stick sana kwenye ku dispute uwepo wa mungu rather than kudeal na specific theological issues ni kwamba mungu is a cental figure of Christianity, Judaism, Islam pamoja na dini nyingine nyingi, na nikiweza kum dismantle huyu mungu nitatawanya huu uongo wa imani ya mungu katika dini nyingi kwa wakati mmoja.
Mahmood
JF-Expert Member
- Feb 9, 2008
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Blueray,
Nakushauri usome kuruani tukufu Inshalllah itakusaidia na kujibu maswala yako yote.
http://www.quranitukufu.net/
http://quran.com/
Augustine Moshi
JF-Expert Member
- Apr 22, 2006
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Bluray,
I thought you wanted to engage in a well structured, logical argument. At one time you even suggested that I start from where you stood (that there is no God) and argue the existence of God from that. But you fail to see the absurdity of your own undertaking: you are trying to prove your premise!
I am also beginning to wonder about whether you care about clarity of ideas. I stated that those who deny the existence of God are in the minority, and you conclude from that that I said majority belief implies truth! I expect, from you, a better use of the rules of inference.
To begin with, you must be clear about your overall objective. It cannot be to prove that God does not exist because you take that as your premise. If you want to prove that belief in God leads to a contradiction, then you need to take belief in God as your premise. All this is Logic101 which I assume you are familiar with.
I will continue to have an interest in this only if you are willing to make the discussion more focussed. General lashing out at beliefs will not do.
I thought you wanted to engage in a well structured, logical argument. At one time you even suggested that I start from where you stood (that there is no God) and argue the existence of God from that. But you fail to see the absurdity of your own undertaking: you are trying to prove your premise!
I am also beginning to wonder about whether you care about clarity of ideas. I stated that those who deny the existence of God are in the minority, and you conclude from that that I said majority belief implies truth! I expect, from you, a better use of the rules of inference.
To begin with, you must be clear about your overall objective. It cannot be to prove that God does not exist because you take that as your premise. If you want to prove that belief in God leads to a contradiction, then you need to take belief in God as your premise. All this is Logic101 which I assume you are familiar with.
I will continue to have an interest in this only if you are willing to make the discussion more focussed. General lashing out at beliefs will not do.
October
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- Oct 5, 2009
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Bluray
JF-Expert Member
- Mar 25, 2008
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- #208
I am showing the contradiction of the god idea, specifically the Judeo-Christian "giganormous" omnipotent omniscient godhead.
I have not only said that belief in god leads to contradiction, I have demonstrated this.The only problem is, once you employ your "god is incomprehensible" aka "god works in mysterious ways" absurdity, god cnnot be challenged and any attempt at a logical discussion breaks down.
Drop this nonsense and your god is defenseless and humbled to a smithereens of oblivion.
Mahmood
JF-Expert Member
- Feb 9, 2008
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Ok, but I just would like to advice you again to read it with the open mind.
I am sure it will help you (I am really caring about you).
Best Regards.
I wish you all the best.
Bluray
have a look on the following,
Hayo ni malezo yako.
Na hii ni perception ni ya wengine
Scientists Decode Dead Sea Scrolls with DNA and Infrared Digital Photography
Excavated between 1947 and 1956, the texts are composed of three types of documents;biblical manuscripts, early versions of the canonical Old Testament; apocrypha, non-canonical books similar to those in the Old Testament; and commentaries, other documents discussing Biblical books and law.
In 1949, scientists using carbon-14 dating techniques dated the Dead Sea Scrolls to be somewhere between 1900 and 2200 years old, at that time predating the oldest known Biblical texts in Hebrew, the medieval Aleppo Codex (Tiberias, 920 CE) and Leningrad Codex (Cairo, 1010 CE), by more than 1000 years.
In addition to being displayed in museums, DNA analysis, infrared photography, and high-speed computers have allowed several of scrolls to be displayed digitally online.
For example, the Shrine of the Book offers on-line visitors the chance to view a complete 2,000 year-old scroll of the Book of Isaiaha religious and scientific triumph for Israel.
"The book of Isaiah is the gem of Jewish nation," Roitman concluded.
Benjamin Somers
8 November 2006
Ukitaka issue yote check hapa http://www.aaas.org/news/releases/2006/1108scrolls.shtml
have a look on the following,
HTML:
Nimeongea kuhusu inconsistency ya gospels, msomi yeyote wa biblia anayajua haya.Ni zamu yako kuyafanyia uchungui na kuja na maswali kama yapo.Na hii ni perception ni ya wengine
Scientists Decode Dead Sea Scrolls with DNA and Infrared Digital Photography
Excavated between 1947 and 1956, the texts are composed of three types of documents;biblical manuscripts, early versions of the canonical Old Testament; apocrypha, non-canonical books similar to those in the Old Testament; and commentaries, other documents discussing Biblical books and law.
In 1949, scientists using carbon-14 dating techniques dated the Dead Sea Scrolls to be somewhere between 1900 and 2200 years old, at that time predating the oldest known Biblical texts in Hebrew, the medieval Aleppo Codex (Tiberias, 920 CE) and Leningrad Codex (Cairo, 1010 CE), by more than 1000 years.
In addition to being displayed in museums, DNA analysis, infrared photography, and high-speed computers have allowed several of scrolls to be displayed digitally online.
For example, the Shrine of the Book offers on-line visitors the chance to view a complete 2,000 year-old scroll of the Book of Isaiaha religious and scientific triumph for Israel.
"The book of Isaiah is the gem of Jewish nation," Roitman concluded.
Benjamin Somers
8 November 2006
Ukitaka issue yote check hapa http://www.aaas.org/news/releases/2006/1108scrolls.shtml
Bluray
JF-Expert Member
- Mar 25, 2008
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- #212
Baada ya watu kushindwa ku keep up imebidi nirudie kusoma mjadala upya post by post.
Nimegundua hili swali halikujibiwa.
Simple protein imetokana na simple amino acids, simple amino acids zimetokana na acids zilizokuwa excited na umeme wa lightning, ultimately swali la msingi la "hicho nacho kilitoka wapi?" haliwezi kujibiwa kiufasaha kwa sababu no matter what the answer, the question can still be applied that "from where did that answer come?"
Here is where quantum physics comes to the aid of our misguided perception of the large scale universe.It turns out that the notion of "cause and effect" and the entire hierarchy of causality is not fundamental at all.In some quantum physics experiments, such as the Schrodinger Cat experiment, the action at a distance spookiness phenomena and the appearance and disappearance of virtual particles, effect can occur before action and mess up the entire "causality" and "cause and effect" establishment.
So this totally demolishes any need for a prime mover, if the double slit experiment that established the wav particle duality phenomena, the Schrodinger Cat experiment and it's philosophical implications, the action at a distance spookiness phenomena, the appearance and disappearance of virtual particles cats doubt on the need for our understood need for causality and hence cause and effect, the centrality of causality and cause and effect is immediately shattered.
So the debunking of the centrality of the entire notion of classical causality and the establishment of the ironically more dependable probabilistic quantum phenomena adequately addresses the lack of a need for a prime mover, because the entire idea of a prime mover is based on causality, and causality at the quantum level is already sufficiently irrefutably debunked.
I can understand why in the believer's model god is not fully understood.Now there are two different types of "not understood". There is the "not yet understood" primarily because of out scientific abd technological advancement, and there is the "incomprehensible" type, which means no matter how advanced we get there is something in our fundamental wiring that will prevent us from understanding god.
Obviously I don't believe in god so all reference to god are for argument's sake. I want to make a point to demonstrate that the believer and the atheist are both awed by existence.The difference is the believer ascribe that awe to god, and that the atheist ascribe that awe to our limited understanding.Essentially the two views share a point, that the universe is awe inspiring and need an explanation, but apart from that point these two views go their separate ways, with the atheist employing reason to converge towards the real answers, while the believer's view diverge from the answer in seeking a recluse from an imaginary godhead.
I wonder how much of a following do I have in here. I will be glad to entertain any question on my above statements.
Bluray
JF-Expert Member
- Mar 25, 2008
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- #213
Don't make me say "not only did you miss the boat, but also the entire monsoon season"
Sijasema kwamba hivi vitabu si ancient, nimesema kwamba si vitabu vya mungu.Nionyeshe wapi kuna ushahidi wa kwamba hivi ni vitabu vya mungu hapo.
Kama biblia ni kitabu cha mungu, just to pick one example, mbona huyo Joshua kakosea astrophysics yake kwa kusema kwamba mungu alisimamisha jua ili lisizunguke dunia na kuwapa waisraeli muda zaidi wa daylight ili washinde vita instead of kusimamisha dunia ambayo we all know ilikuwa inazunguka jua? Au unataka kusema enzi hizo jua lilikuwa linazunguka dunia?
Do you understand the difference between heliocentrism and geocentrism? If you do, then Joshua ni bonge la ganga ongo, worse than Sheikh Yahya.
NERO
Nero Claudius Caesar Augustus Germanicus (15 December AD 379 June AD 68)
Nero ruled from 54 to 68.
1)Hii iko ndani ya kipindi kinachoitwa Eye Witness Period
Kwa maana ya kwamba wengi wa walio ishi wakati huo
walimfahamu kwa kumuona Yesu.
Now check this out:
Christian tradition
2)Early Christian tradition often holds Nero as the first persecutor of Christians and as the killer of Apostles Peter and Paul. There was also a belief among some early Christians that Nero was the Antichrist.
First Persecutor
3)The non-Christian historian Tacitus describes Nero extensively torturing and executing Christians after the fire of 64.[85] Suetonius also mentions Nero punishing Christians, though he does so as a praise and does not connect it with the fire.
Killer of Peter and Paul
4)The first text to suggest that Nero killed an apostle is the apocryphal Ascension of Isaiah, a Christian writing from the 2nd century. It says the slayer of his mother, who himself this king, will persecute the plant which the Twelve Apostles of the Beloved have planted. Of the Twelve one will be delivered into his hands.
5)Hao walio uwawa lazima walimfahamu Yesu vizuri na ndiyo
maana hawakuikana imani yao hata wakafa.
6)Yote haya(1-5) ni fiction?
7)Tacitus(non-Christian historian), Nero(the emperor), Peter & Paul(Apostles wa Yesu) na YESU mwenyewe WOTE HAWA NI fiction?
Nero Claudius Caesar Augustus Germanicus (15 December AD 379 June AD 68)
Nero ruled from 54 to 68.
1)Hii iko ndani ya kipindi kinachoitwa Eye Witness Period
Kwa maana ya kwamba wengi wa walio ishi wakati huo
walimfahamu kwa kumuona Yesu.
Now check this out:
Christian tradition
2)Early Christian tradition often holds Nero as the first persecutor of Christians and as the killer of Apostles Peter and Paul. There was also a belief among some early Christians that Nero was the Antichrist.
First Persecutor
3)The non-Christian historian Tacitus describes Nero extensively torturing and executing Christians after the fire of 64.[85] Suetonius also mentions Nero punishing Christians, though he does so as a praise and does not connect it with the fire.
Killer of Peter and Paul
4)The first text to suggest that Nero killed an apostle is the apocryphal Ascension of Isaiah, a Christian writing from the 2nd century. It says the slayer of his mother, who himself this king, will persecute the plant which the Twelve Apostles of the Beloved have planted. Of the Twelve one will be delivered into his hands.
5)Hao walio uwawa lazima walimfahamu Yesu vizuri na ndiyo
maana hawakuikana imani yao hata wakafa.
6)Yote haya(1-5) ni fiction?
7)Tacitus(non-Christian historian), Nero(the emperor), Peter & Paul(Apostles wa Yesu) na YESU mwenyewe WOTE HAWA NI fiction?
HTML:
Kama biblia ni kitabu cha mungu, just to pick one example, mbona huyo Joshua kakosea astrophysics yake kwa kusema kwamba mungu alisimamisha jua ili lisizunguke dunia na kuwapa waisraeli muda zaidi wa daylight ili washinde vita instead of kusimamisha dunia ambayo we all know ilikuwa inazunguka jua? Au unataka kusema enzi hizo jua lilikuwa linazunguka dunia?
Do you understand the difference between heliocentrism and geocentrism? If you do, then Joshua ni bonge la ganga ongo, worse than Sheikh Yahya.Hii ni lugha ya picha ili kuonesha taswira iliyokusudiwa siyo lazima iwe literal translation.After all hayo ni maneno ya Yoshua ambaye kwa upeo wake labda alijua au hakujua astrophysics.
Bluray ukimtaka Nero huyu hapa:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nero#cite_note-180
Bluray
JF-Expert Member
- Mar 25, 2008
- 3,449
- 137
- Thread starter
- #217
Mimi nilifikiri unaleta ushahidi wa direct, kumbe unaleta habari za Nero aliyetawala miaka zaidi ya hamsa baada ya kuzaliwa Yesu?
Mbona huja address inconsistency ya the gospels? Mbona Luka anasema Yesu kazaliwa wakati wa enzi ya Herode (aliyekufa 4 BC) Na wakati wa sensa ya Quirinius ( 6 AD) Tofauti ya miaka kumi? kama amekosea hapa mangapi kakosea? Kama kakosea hapa tutajuaje kama huyu Yesu alikuwa mtu mmoja at all na sio fictional character?
Baadhi ya sehemu zimechukuliwa na/ au kutafsiriwa kutoka
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_are_some_historical_inconsistencies_in_the_Gospel_narratives
Matayo anasema mamajusi waliifuata nyota mpaka Jerusalem na kutoka hapo Bethlehem ambapo ilisimama juu ya nyumba (really now?) Hakuna rekodi za hii nyota, ila kuna rekodi ya nyota kutokea kabla ya Matayo kuandika.Hivi utajuaje kwamba nyota imesimama juu ya nyumba moja na si nyingine? Matayo pia anasema Herode aliamuru vitoto vichanga vyote karibu na Bethlehemu viuliwe, lakini hakuna ushahidi wowote nje ya biblia kwamba hili lilitokea.Katika utamaduni wa watu waliokuwa wana keep record kwa miaka mia/ elfu kadhaa kama waisraeli na wamisri, kwa nini hakuna rekodi ya hili?
Kama tukilichukua Agano jipya na mfululizo wake wa wafalme wa Yuda kama ni rekodi sawia ya historia, tutaona kuwa vizazi vilivyotajwa katika Matayo na Luka vyote si sahihi.Matayo ameonyesha kwamba kuna vizazi 14 kutoka Abraham kwenda Daudi, Daudi kwenda Yosia, na kutoka Yosia kwenda mpaka Yesu. Kufanya hivi ilibidi awaache wafalme watatu kutoka agano la kale, Jehoash, Amazia na Uzia.Luka naye alitaka watu wakuu watokee baada ya vizazi vinavyogawanyika kwa saba, kutoka Adam, Enoki (7) Abraham (21) Daudi (35) Yesu (77).Pia alimuweka Yusufu (42) na (70) na Yesu (Jose) (49).Ili kufanya hivi ilibidi awapachike watu wanaoonekana kuwa ni wa kutungwa katika Agano la Kale: Kainan (130 na Admin (28)
Pia msigano mwingine wa muhimu kihistoria ni kuchinjwa kwa Yohana mbatizaji mapema katika kazi ya Yesu, na hivyo kabla ya mwaka 30 AD.Mwanahistoria wa Kiyahudi Josephus amesema kwamba Yona alifungwa Macherus, mbali na Galilaya, na aliuawa kwa amri ya Herode kwa upinzani wake kwa ndoa ya Herode kwa Herodia.Hii ndoa ilifungwa 34 AD na kuuawa kwa Yohana mbatizaji kulifanywa karibu na 36 AD.
Hayo ni machache tu, kuna mengi mengine ambayo hata injili tofauti zinapingana.Hivi hiki ni kitabu cha mungu kweli? Mungu alishindwa hata kufanya proofreading? Kama haya yamekosewa wazi kuna mangapi mengine yamekosewa kwa bila kuweza kujlikana kwa uwazi?
HTML:
Mimi nilifikiri unaleta ushahidi wa direct, kumbe unaleta habari za Nero aliyetawala miaka zaidi ya hamsa baada ya kuzaliwa Yesu?Nataka kujenga kwanza hoja ya je? Kuna mtu aliishi aitwaye Yesu?
Christianity na history/archeology(Scientists Decode Dead Sea Scrolls with DNA and Infrared Digital Photography),
vinamtambua kama mmoja kutokana na ukweli kuwa wanathibitisha kuwa Gospel iliandikwa kipindi alichoishi-Eye Witness Period 30AD-70AD)?
Effect yake ipo?(kwa kuangalia watu kama kina Nero, Peter & Paul-Eye Witness Period).
Ndiyo maana nilkuwa hapo. Pia nilitegemea unge-criticize zile hoja 1-7 individually badala ya ku-generalize.
Kwa kuongezea tu, ni kwamba kama umechunguza vizuri mpaka sasa natumia source za information zile zile zinazokubalika na dunia kiujumla wala siyo Christianity pekee. Hiyo decode ya dead scrolls ni report ya mwaka 2006 mwishoni. Siyo bible.
HTML:
Mbona huja address inconsistency ya the gospels? Mbona Luka anasema Yesu kazaliwa wakati wa enzi ya Herode (aliyekufa 4 BC) Na wakati wa sensa ya Quirinius ( 6 AD) Tofauti ya miaka kumi? kama amekosea hapa mangapi kakosea? Kama kakosea hapa tutajuaje kama huyu Yesu alikuwa mtu mmoja at all na sio fictional character?Kama Yesu ni fictional basi hata Nero atakuwa fictional,watawala wa Roma nao watakuwa fictional na Roma yenyewe ni fictional.
La kama Roma ili-exist basi watawala wake akiwemo Nero wali-exist, Peter & Paul nao wali-exist NA Yesu pia siyo tu ali-exist bali effect yake ipo mpaka leo.
Tukitoka hapo ndiyo tutakwenda kwa wale watu ambao hata mimi nawakubali sana-wanaitwa the GIANTS. Toka kwa kina Nicolaus Copernicus, Johannes Kepler(mention the few) mpaka kwa vichwa vya leo kama kina Stephen Hawking(cosmology, quantum physics,physics kiujumla) pia kina Charles Darwin,Gregor Johann Mendel(biology) na wengine.
Samahanini wasomi wa JF sikuwepo kwa muda mrefu sana na nilikuwa mara nyingi napenda kusoma thread za dini, baada ya kupekua pekua kidogo ndo nikakutana na hii ya Russel. tangu nimeanza kusoma sijamkuta Mtindio wa Ubongo yupo?
Kwa leo ningetoa tu ushauri kidogo kwa Blue Ray, sidhani kama Max ana sababu ya kuanza kupanga point moja moja kuprove uwepo wa Judeo-Chritian God, kama Blue Ray anavyomhitaji itakuwa ni kupoteza muda wakati hayo yalishajibiwa na wasomi wengi kwenye vitabu vingi.
Sasa kuanza tena kunukuu vitu ambayo vishaandikwa ingekuwa ni vizuri Blue Ray akasoma afu aone kama vinakidhi mahitaji yake au lah.si asome hapo juu kwenye page hii kuna link ya Y- Jesus.com itakayomjibu maswali yake yote?
Akimaliza kusoma afungue tena faithfreedom.org aone wenye msimamo zaid ya wake na wenye kujua kujenga hoja wanavyopambana na wapingaji hoja kwa hoja.
Nanyuki
Kwa leo ningetoa tu ushauri kidogo kwa Blue Ray, sidhani kama Max ana sababu ya kuanza kupanga point moja moja kuprove uwepo wa Judeo-Chritian God, kama Blue Ray anavyomhitaji itakuwa ni kupoteza muda wakati hayo yalishajibiwa na wasomi wengi kwenye vitabu vingi.
Sasa kuanza tena kunukuu vitu ambayo vishaandikwa ingekuwa ni vizuri Blue Ray akasoma afu aone kama vinakidhi mahitaji yake au lah.si asome hapo juu kwenye page hii kuna link ya Y- Jesus.com itakayomjibu maswali yake yote?
Akimaliza kusoma afungue tena faithfreedom.org aone wenye msimamo zaid ya wake na wenye kujua kujenga hoja wanavyopambana na wapingaji hoja kwa hoja.
Nanyuki
Samahanini wasomi wa JF sikuwepo kwa muda mrefu sana na nilikuwa mara nyingi napenda kusoma thread za dini, baada ya kupekua pekua kidogo ndo nikakutana na hii ya Russel. tangu nimeanza kusoma sijamkuta Mtindio wa Ubongo yupo?
Kwa leo ningetoa tu ushauri kidogo kwa Blue Ray, sidhani kama Max ana sababu ya kuanza kupanga point moja moja kuprove uwepo wa Judeo-Chritian God, kama Blue Ray anavyomhitaji itakuwa ni kupoteza muda wakati hayo yalishajibiwa na wasomi wengi kwenye vitabu vingi.
Sasa kuanza tena kunukuu vitu ambayo vishaandikwa ingekuwa ni vizuri Blue Ray akasoma afu aone kama vinakidhi mahitaji yake au lah.si asome hapo juu kwenye page hii kuna link ya Y- Jesus.com itakayomjibu maswali yake yote?
Akimaliza kusoma afungue tena faithfreedom.org aone wenye msimamo zaid ya wake na wenye kujua kujenga hoja wanavyopambana na wapingaji hoja kwa hoja.
Nanyuki
Kwa leo ningetoa tu ushauri kidogo kwa Blue Ray, sidhani kama Max ana sababu ya kuanza kupanga point moja moja kuprove uwepo wa Judeo-Chritian God, kama Blue Ray anavyomhitaji itakuwa ni kupoteza muda wakati hayo yalishajibiwa na wasomi wengi kwenye vitabu vingi.
Sasa kuanza tena kunukuu vitu ambayo vishaandikwa ingekuwa ni vizuri Blue Ray akasoma afu aone kama vinakidhi mahitaji yake au lah.si asome hapo juu kwenye page hii kuna link ya Y- Jesus.com itakayomjibu maswali yake yote?
Akimaliza kusoma afungue tena faithfreedom.org aone wenye msimamo zaid ya wake na wenye kujua kujenga hoja wanavyopambana na wapingaji hoja kwa hoja.
Nanyuki
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