Robert Mugabe just shouted "We are not gays" in his UN speech

[MALCOM LUMUMBA]

Human rights trump culture, any culture which is inconsistent with this nobel ideal ought to be replaced by new one.

GOOD LORD!!
Hivi wewe jamaa ni wa wapi???
Hivi hujui hata kwamba Law is the reflection of the cultural realities???

Halafu tofautisha kati ya Civilization and Culture.
Culture cannot just be made and unmade by people when its convenient: it transcends from one Generation to another.
Whilst Civilizations can change but people would still bear their cultural identities...

A good example from fall of Chinese Civilizations. It started way back with the QING DYNASTY,..It came to HAN DYNASTY,...It came to TANG DYNASTY,...Then until the invasions of the MONGOLS..
Until today CHINESE CULTURE IS STILL THE SAME, ITS JUST EVOLVING.

CULTURE FLOWS PARALLEL WITH THE CHANGES OF THE SOCIETY.........

 

[descarte]

Is Homosexuality a Human right???
What faculties does it develop???

Do you know that there is a difference between NATURAL RIGHTS and CIVIL RIGHTS???

AND YES INDEED CIVIL RIGHTS CAN BE NEW RIGHTS!!!!
ULIKUWA HUJUI HILO????

I don't use the term natural rights because it is very ambiguous and controversial.
Homosexuality is an issue concerning human rights because anti-homosexuals campaigns are advocating for criminalization of such act yet human dignity holds that everyone should be treated equally no matter who you are or whom you love.
This conviction is at the heart of human rights concept.

 

[MALCOM LUMUMBA]

I don't use the term natural rights because is very ambiguous and controversial.
Homosexuality is an issue concerning human rights because anti-homosexuals campaigns are advocating for criminalization of such act yet human dignity holds that everyone should be treated equally no matter who you are or whom you love.
This conviction is at the heart of human rights concept.

What is human right???
​How is natural right controversial and ambiguous??

Is human dignity a human right??? or the end goal/objective of human rights???

JIBU MASWALI.

 

[descarte]

GOOD LORD!!
Hivi wewe jamaa ni wa wapi???
Hivi hujui hata kwamba Law is the reflection of the cultural realities???

Halafu tofautisha kati ya Civilization and Culture.
Culture cannot just be made and unmade by people when its convenient: it transcends from one Generation to another.
Whilst Civilizations can change but people would still bear their cultural identities...

A good example from fall of Chinese Civilizations. It started way back with the QING DYNASTY,..It came to HAN DYNASTY,...It came to TANG DYNASTY,...Then until the invasions of the MONGOLS..
Until today CHINESE CULTURE IS STILL THE SAME, ITS JUST EVOLVING.

CULTURE FLOWS PARALLEL WITH THE CHANGES OF THE SOCIETY.........

Yeah law is the reflection of cultural realities but also some kind of moral principles like justice.
Do you mean culture is something static? And how do you explain the origin of culture of isn't man made
Is it something transcendental?
It is hard to change culture but it is possible to change it.

 

[Cynic]

dah... this :mvutaji: guy is ancient & obsolete

 

[descarte]

What is human right???
​How is natural right controversial and ambiguous??

Is human dignity a human right??? or the end goal/objective of human rights???

JIBU MASWALI.

Of course it is hard to provide an exhaustive definition of human rights however we can explain human rights as the way of treating a human being with a certain attitude.
Human dignity has two dimensions,First, every human being has an intrinsic value and 2nd everyone has an individual responsibility to live a good life. These two principles are mutually connected. The telos of human rights is to treat a human being as his human dignity dictates
Sorry I confused the word natural right and natural laws however I have a question, How do you justify natural rights? From where do you based on to say that we have natural rights?

 

[crabat]

Mugabe is a diplomatic genius , he knows the politics of the world , he knows what is happening around the world.....and Hzicho Kidhungu bwana wee utafikiri mdhungu anajua kuwapiga kwa lugha yao wenyewe na kupiga makofi.

ndio hapo tunaposema Rais moja ya sifa kuu ni kujua Politics hizi za Dunia....Mkapa alikua mweledi wa field hii pia...
sasa tuna uchaguzi jee wagombea wetu tukiwapima watatuwakilsha vipi huko ? leo ukumbi umejaa maana wanajua mzee wa ma point anahutubia.....ukiwa unaongea utumbo unakuta hall tupu na wapo staff wa UN tu

 

[MALCOM LUMUMBA]

descarte,

Yeah law is the reflection of cultural realities but also some kind of moral principles like justice.

Justice does not necessarily need to be moral; It could POSITIVE, IRRATIONAL and a RESULT OF AN AGGREGATE CONVENTION OF SOME PEOPLE IN THE SOCIETY.
Even the NAZIS OF THE THIRD REICH had their own justice and it was not moral.

Do you mean culture is something static?

And where did i say culture is Static???

And how do you explain the origin of culture of isn't man made
Is it something transcendental?

Culture is not a concept brooding out of the sky; It is a convention of the society.

It is hard to change culture but it is possible to change it

.
Culture must change and it will change; but it cannot be trumped by Human rights as you prescribed earlier.

 

[MALCOM LUMUMBA]

Of course it is hard to provide an exhaustive definition of human rights

Why do you advocate something you cant explain????

human rights as the way of treating a human being with a certain attitude.

What attitude???

Human dignity has two dimensions.First, every human being has an intrinsic value and 2nd everyone has an individual responsibility to live a good life. These two principles are mutually connected. The telos of human rights is to treat a human being as his human dignity dictates

Why do you castigate Natural law yet you speak as a naturalist???

I have a question, How do you justify natural rights? From where do you based on to say that we have natural rights?

Human rights are natural rights because there are inherent,Universal and immutable entitlements which facilitates the advancement of human faculties.
And this should be Plato.

Sasa, if Homosexuality is a right what human faculty does it develop????

 

[descarte]

descarte,

Justice does not necessarily need to be moral; It could POSITIVE, IRRATIONAL and a RESULT OF AN AGGREGATE CONVENTION OF SOME PEOPLE IN THE SOCIETY.Surely, I find your answer totally unsatisfactory. I can see you used the word "it could" you made a presumption and it is begging a question. What do you mean by saying that justice is positive or irrational or convention of some of people?
If this is your understanding of justice then I am confident to say that your concept of justice is too shallow
Even the NAZIS OF THE THIRD REICH had their own justice and it was not moral. By invoking Nazi do you mean that justice is something subjective to one's feelings because you said Nazi had their own justice and it was not moral. Do you think that they were right?if not what is your argument. You cannot take such a stand on this issue you must contradict yourself


And where did i say culture is Static???

Culture is not a concept brooding out of the sky; It is a convention of the society. Then if it is a convention does it follows necessary that it is right because majority believe
.
Culture must change and it will change; but it cannot be trumped by Human rights as you prescribed earlier.

why are you saying that it cannot be trumped by human right?

 

[descarte]

descarte,

Justice does not necessarily need to be moral; It could POSITIVE, IRRATIONAL and a RESULT OF AN AGGREGATE CONVENTION OF SOME PEOPLE IN THE SOCIETY.
Even the NAZIS OF THE THIRD REICH had their own justice and it was not moral.


And where did i say culture is Static???

Culture is not a concept brooding out of the sky; It is a convention of the society.
.
Culture must change and it will change; but it cannot be trumped by Human rights as you prescribed earlier.

SIZE=3]Justice does not necessarily need to be moral; It could POSITIVE, IRRATIONAL and a RESULT OF AN AGGREGATE CONVENTION OF SOME PEOPLE IN THE SOCIETY.Surely, I find your answer totally unsatisfactory. I can see you used the word "it could" you made a presumption and it is begging a question. What do you mean by saying that justice is positive or irrational or convention of some of people?
If this is your understanding of justice then I am confident to say that your concept of justice is too shallow
[/SIZE]Even the NAZIS OF THE THIRD REICH had their own justice and it was not moral. By invoking Nazi do you mean that justice is something subjective to one's feelings because you said Nazi had their own justice and it was not moral. Do you think that they were right?if not what is your argument. You cannot take such a stand on this issue you must contradict yourself


And where did i say culture is Static???

Culture is not a concept brooding out of the sky; It is a convention of the society. Then if it is a convention does it follows necessary that it is right because majority believe
.
Culture must change and it will change; but it cannot be trumped by Human rights as you prescribed earlier.[/QUOTE]

why are you saying that it cannot be trumped by human right?

 

[Haki Madhubuti]

Are you emotional? Attack the point fella
Do you think is Mugabe right? when he used a phrase of "new rights"
There is nothing like new rights when people are claiming for equal treatment and respect as the conviction of human dignity presupposes. Is that a new right?
Equal treatment under the law is about justice and human rights.

Kila mtu atasema lake lakini mahusiano ya jinsia moja ni ugonjwa ambao baadhi ya watu hawataki kukubali kwa makusudi,kutokana na mazingira au kwa faida zao binafsi
.

 

[MALCOM LUMUMBA]

why are you saying that it cannot be trumped by human right?

Human rights are ideals; culture has social tangibility.
Abstracts cannot wrestle realities.

 

[descarte]

Kila mtu atasema lake lakini mahusiano ya jinsia moja ni ugonjwa ambao baadhi ya watu hawataki kukubali kwa makusudi,kutokana na mazingira au kwa faida zao binafsi
.

Kwanini unafikiri ni ugojwa?
Labda ubafikiri faida gani binafsi?

 

[MALCOM LUMUMBA]

If this is your understanding of justice then I am confident to say that your concept of justice is too shallow

How many theories of justice do you know my friend???

By invoking Nazi do you mean that justice is something subjective to one's feelings because you said Nazi had their own justice and it was not moral. Do you think that they were right?

Gracious Marry!!!!
JUSTICE need not to be moral........
What the state prescribes as law will be law.
That's Justice in a positivism approach.

And where did i say culture is Static???

Then if it is a convention does it follows necessary that it is right because majority believe

Wewe mimi nazungumzia culture siyo Rights,....
Man coherence please.

 

[descarte]

Human rights are ideals; culture has social tangibility.
Abstracts cannot wrestle realities.

I can see the misunderstanding.
Human rights is not an ideal in sense that it is abstract. We can use the word principles also not in an ideal as the way you call them rather they have some kind of effect thats every country support human rights
In fact,reality is not only something tangible. Reality is something which even when one stops to believe, it is still there. In that sense of definition of reality human rights are realities even if countries violate them still they are existing.
A conviction that everyone has an intrinsic values you cannot say is just an idea which doesn't has foundation at all, which doesn't has an effect completely

 

[Nniniisimba]

Robert Mugabe we are praying for you our African very strong and strategic leader. Real we are not gays 100%, may God bless you daddy.

 

[descarte]

How many theories of justice do you know my friend???


Gracious Marry!!!!
JUSTICE need not to be moral........
What the state prescribes as law will be law.
That's Justice in a positivism approach.

And where did i say culture is Static???



Wewe mimi nazungumzia culture siyo Rights,....
Man coherence please.

We should grasp first what is justice then we move on
You cannot mention types of justice yet you seem not to know what is justice

"Any unjust law is no law" Law is a domain in a large domain of morality. If you have a positivism account of law,that is where we disagree. I believe law is always embedded with morality.
That is why I challenge your Positivism account of justice.
I think I asked whether you meant that culture is something static?
Of course I meant culture and my question was why are you saying that human rights cannot trump culture?

 

[nG'aMBu]

bonge la ngeli, bravo our legendary Mugabe, duh hivi magufuli akifanikiwa kupata urais ataweza kweli kupga ngeli ya ukweli hivi?

 

[KAMANDA MKUBWA]

Bravo comrade Mugabe, other leaders must speak openly like this man.