Nundu_Tanzania
JF-Expert Member
- Apr 19, 2019
- 811
- 350
Wakati unauliza swali hili ulitakiwa uelewe pia Socratic answering.
Umeshikilia Socratic debate, lakini mbona unasahau pia Socratic answer?
Wakati unauliza swali hili ulitakiwa uelewe pia Socratic answering.Nimekuuliza unajua Socratic question ni nini. Mbona hujajibu?
Huwezi majadiliano ya kutafuta ukweli.Wakati unauliza swali hili ulitakiwa uelewe pia Socratic answering.
Umeshikilia Socratic debate, lakini mbona unasahau pia Socratic answer?
Wapi katika hoja zako umejadili ukweli?Huwezi majadiliano ya kutafuta ukweli.
Unaendekeza ushabiki.
Ungetaka majadiliano ya kutafuta ukweli, ungejibu kama 1 + 1 = 1 ni sawa katika base ten math.
I don't see any point in continuing to engage you.
I am placing you in my ignore list like, the rest of the flat earth society.
Binadamu alimtengeneza Mungu na Mungu akamuumba Binadamu mchezo kwishnei. Je kuna Mungu au hakuna? Kama kuna binadamu basi kuna Mungu maana wanategemeana.The question: "If God is the creator, then who created the creator?" is illegitimate because by definition, the Creator is uncreated. He is eternal, without beginning, without end and all affairs return back to Him: (وَأَنَّ إِلَىٰ رَبِّكَ ٱلْمُنتَهَىٰ) "And that to your Lord is the return (of all beings and affairs) (and of all perfections in attributes)." (53:42).
Thus to ask who or what created something that is uncreated is the way of:
a) an ignorant person devoid of intellect,
b) a lying deceiver, a sophist.
Note : Maelezo haya mafupi nime "copy" na ku "paste" toka kwenye tovuti iitwayo "www.aboutatheism.net", mnaweza tembelea huko mpate faida.
Tujadili hili, kwa wale wote ambao huuliza swali hilo, waje watuambie kwanini wanauliza swali hilo.
Ahsante.
Jurjani (Zurri)
Ridiculous? kwa sababu huna jibu🤣The most ridiculous question you ever asked.
He is talking about God not Gods elewa swali. Again Christian God is God not Jesus ( Jesus is a son of God ) kwa waislam sifaham zaidi. Kwahiyo swali lake ni kwa mungu sio miungu 🙏🏾🙏🏾In Greek mythology there are many gods. They are born but immortal. Which God are you talking here. A Muslim God (Allah) or Christian God (Jesus)?
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"....because the creator is uncreated.." Bila kutupa reason why and how?The question: "If God is the creator, then who created the creator?" is illegitimate because by definition, the Creator is uncreated. He is eternal, without beginning, without end and all affairs return back to Him: (وَأَنَّ إِلَىٰ رَبِّكَ ٱلْمُنتَهَىٰ) "And that to your Lord is the return (of all beings and affairs) (and of all perfections in attributes)." (53:42).
Thus to ask who or what created something that is uncreated is the way of:
a) an ignorant person devoid of intellect,
b) a lying deceiver, a sophist.
Note : Maelezo haya mafupi nime "copy" na ku "paste" toka kwenye tovuti iitwayo "www.aboutatheism.net", mnaweza tembelea huko mpate faida.
Tujadili hili, kwa wale wote ambao huuliza swali hilo, waje watuambie kwanini wanauliza swali hilo.
Ahsante.
Jurjani (Zurri)
Kabla sijaenda mbali zaidi,tuanzie hapa "Does infinity exist ?".Hapa una avoid "infinite regression" kwenye hoja yako
Hakuna non believer anae weza kuja na hoja hiyo, sababu historia ya nadharia hii inajulikana,yule aliyekuja na nadharia hiyo ameikuta tayari dunia ipo na akili ya kawaida haikubali,kwamba mshindo mkubwa uliotokana na kutanuka kwa dunia,na ukiangalia kwa undani nadharia hii inaonyesha ulazima wa kuwepo kwa muumba,rejea kitabu cha Stephen Hawking "A Brief History of Time"Non believer ana pia anaweza sema "The big bang" was uncreated
Naona unatumia udhaifu kukosoa uhalisia yaani unatumia matokeo ya "logic" katika "Fallacy of special pleading", kwanza onyesha usahihi wa fallacy kisha ukosoe hoja yangu.Kwanini ulimwengu uumbwe ila Mungu asiumbwe,Fallacy of special pleading
Tofauti ipo kubwa sana,sababu Qur'aan si zao la mwanadamu,Qur'aan ni ukweli mtupu na uhalisia,kuilinganisha Qur'aan na vitabu vingine kunaonyesha wazi ya kuwa huijui Qur'aan.Ku "quote" Quran Ku prove hoja yako hakuna tofauti na msomaji wa novel anaye "quote" kitabu cha Harry Potter Ku prove "uwepo Wa philosophical stone"
Stay with me.....Kabla sijaenda mbali zaidi,tuanzie hapa "Does infinity exist ?".
Ukijibu kuwa ina exist itabidi uniambie iko wapi na umejuaje,kisha utajua kama na "avoid infinite regression" au naandiks uhalisia.
Hakuna non believer anae weza kuja na hoja hiyo, sababu historia ya nadharia hii inajulikana,yule aliyekuja na nadharia hiyo ameikuta tayari dunia ipo na akili ya kawaida haikubali,kwamba mshindo mkubwa uliotokana na kutanuka kwa dunia,na ukiangalia kwa undani nadharia hii inaonyesha ulazima wa kuwepo kwa muumba,rejea kitabu cha Stephen Hawking "A Brief History of Time"
Anasema Hawking :
“This means that the very beginning of the universe was chosen with great care, if the theory of the hot Big Bang was correct from the beginning of time. It is very difficult to explain why the universe began in this particular way, unless we say concerning that that there was indeed a Creator who wanted to create beings like ourselves” [A Brief History of Time, Hawking, p. 127].
Naona unatumia udhaifu kukosoa uhalisia yaani unatumia matokeo ya "logic" katika "Fallacy of special pleading", kwanza onyesha usahihi wa fallacy kisha ukosoe hoja yangu.
Tofauti ipo kubwa sana,sababu Qur'aan si zao la mwanadamu,Qur'aan ni ukweli mtupu na uhalisia,kuilinganisha Qur'aan na vitabu vingine kunaonyesha wazi ya kuwa huijui Qur'aan.
Ili uone ya kuwa Qur'aan ni ukweli mtupu,nakuwekea aya inayo uliza swali kisha ujibu swali hilo.
Anasema Allah aliye juu :
35. Au wao wameumbwa pasipo kutokana na kitu chochote, au ni wao ndio waumbaji? (at-Tur : 35)
Hapa ndiyo kuna shida,labda hujasoma nilichokiandika,kuna swali nimekuuliza,jibu kwanza swali nililo kuuliza kisha naendelea hapa nilipo ishia,sababu swali nililo kuuliza kinajibu swali la kwanini Mola hana chanzo.Stay with me.....
Tu focus kwenye hoja yako uliyoileta hapa
Umesema kuwa kuuliza nani aliyemuumba Mungu (Who created God) ni swali LA kipumbavu kwasababu Mungu hakuumbwa
Mungu ni kitu(something) kwasababu kwa mujibu wa hoja yako ana exist (yupo)
Kwa kubali kuwa Mungu yupo na hakuumbwa ni sawa na kukubali kuwa kitu(something) kinaweza kuwepo (exist) bila kuumbwa (created)
Na hapo hujatupa sababu yoyote kwanini Mungu anaweza tu kuwepo(exist) bila kuumbwa au kuwa na chanzo(cause) pia hujatwambia kivipi inawezekana(how) kitu kikawepo bila kuumbwa au kuwa na chanzo (cause)
Kusema tuu bila hoja,sababu,au mechanism kuwa Mungu yupo bila kuumbwa kunafanya maneno yako kuwa tupu
Na Mimi nikisema kuwa "Ulimwenguu huu" upo tu bila kuumbwa au kuwa na chanzo,utakataa vipi hoja yangu wakati hata wewe umeitumia kwenye case ya Mungu?
Ukisema Ulimwengu lazima uwe na chanzo (cause) lakini Mungu hatakiwi kuwa na chanzo(uncaused) bila kutwambia why & how utakua ume commit fallacy ya special pleading
Pia kuna Mamiliion ya Miungu inayoaminiwa na dini nyingi Duniani,Ni Mungu yupi Huyo unayomzungumzia?
Vishnu?, Krishna, Zeus?,Allah?,Jehovah?,Ra?
Neno "Mungu" ni sawa na neno "Nchi" au "ugonjwa", they are generic
Usiseme naumwa ugonjwa,sema naumwa malaria ili watu wakuelewe
Na ukisema Mungu unayemzungumzia ni " Allah" wa Quran lazima utupe reason kwanini ni yeye na sio Vishnu,Thor, Zeus,Jehovah, au Krishna?
Pia Ku "quote" Quran Ku validate hoja yako ni upuuzi wa kiwango cha juu ambao haufai kwenye mijadala ya namna hii,kwa sababu hata mu Hindu anaweza Ku "quote" Bhagavad Gita Ku prove uwepo wa Mungu Vishnu
Na mu Hindu,kwake kitabu cha Gita ni kitabu kitakatifu kama wewe unavyoiona Quran
Hapa utagundua kuwa,una prefer Quran kama kitabu sahihi kwa sababu kuna 98% chance umezaliwa kwenye familia ya kiislam,sawa na mkristo anayeamini kuwa bibilia ni 100% maneno ya Mungu kwasababu amekulia na kulelewa katika familia au mazingira ya kikristo,ungezaliwa India possibly ungekuwa Muhindu,Jamaica ungekua Rastafarian au China ya miaka ile ungekua Confucian au Buddhist
Kitabu kipi cha dini unakiamini,inategemea umezaliwa wapi na link
Sasa acha ujuha wako tena wa Ku quote Quran
Jenga hoja,jenga fact
Nambie kwanini Mungu asiwe na cause lakini Ulimwengu uwe na cause
Pia unambie how is it possible kitu kuwepo bila kuwa na cause au beginning?
Swali ulilouliza halijibu hoja yakoHapa ndiyo kuna shida,labda hujasoma nilichokiandika,kuna swali nimekuuliza,jibu kwanza swali nililo kuuliza kisha naendelea hapa nilipo ishia,sababu swali nililo kuuliza kinajibu swali la kwanini Mola hana chanzo.
Sijui kwanini unakimbia swali langu,ulisema kwamba kurejea kwa Mola kuwa ni muumba ni kuavoid infinity regression. Kisha nikakuuliza "Infinity" ipo ? Unakuja kuuliza swali la hovyo linalo onyesha unaandika jambo usilo kuwa na ujuzi nalo kwamba,sababu Infinity haipo kwa ajili Physical Quantities,sasa kwenye hesabu haiingii wala katika uhalisia haiingii infinty. Kwahiyo swali langu linajibu kwanini lazima awepo Necessary Being,yaani haepukiki.Swali ulilouliza halijibu hoja yako
Umeuliza kama "infinity ipo"?
Infinity kama neno au infinity kama "abstract mathematical concept"?
Either way hai validate hoja yako,nikisema infinity ina exist kama Mathematical concept ndiyo ita prove hoja yako kuwa Mungu ni hana cause?
Sijakuuliza kama ina mahusiano,nilikuuliza hili kwa kujenga kwako hoja kwenye "infinity regression".Kwahiyo unatakiwa kuwa makini kwenye kusoma nachokiandika.Any number over zero yield to infinity?, hapa cause ni IPI na effect ni ipi?
Yeye yupo sababu uwepo ni wa walazima. Sasa unatakiwa ukosoe ninachokiandika kwa maana hakuna kinyume chake. Hapa tunarudi tena katika suala "infinity" ndiyo maana nikakuuliza "infinity" ina exist au kinyume chake. Unakimbia hili swali.Swali langu hujajibu,why and how Mungu anaweza kuwepo bila cause wala beginning?
Swali hili kadhalika ni swali la uongo. Sababu hujatuambia hiyo "Infinity" ni nini ? Chukua machungwa kumi gawanya kwa hakuna unapata nini ? Kwanza mgawanyo huu unaonyesha matumizi mabaya ya akili. Nakukimbusha tu kwamba nimelileta hili baada ya wewe kuleta habari za "infinity" kwahiyo nakuonyesha ya "infinity" ni upuuzi wa ujinga wa wana mahesabu.Any number over zero yield to infinity?, hapa cause ni IPI na effect
Kila kitu kina chanzo isipokuwa Mola muumba. Nimetumia kulijua hili kwa kutumia :Jibu hili swali kwanza,hoja ya msingi iliyokufanya uamini lazima kuwe na uwepo wa Mungu, ni kuwa lazima kila kitu kilichopo kiwe na chanzo(cause)
Kuhoji kwa mtindo huu wa logic ni kuhoji kototo sababu kuna zua maswali mengi kuliko majibu na kupingana na uhalisia. Sasa jikite kwenye uhalisia na si mtindo huu wa kuhoji na kuhitimisha kizembe.1.Ulimwengu upo(exist)
2.kila kitu kilichopo lazima kiwe na chanzo (cause)
3.Hiko chanzo (cause) tunakiita Mungu
Ndiyo maana nikasema kuhoji kwa mtindo wa mantiki (logic) ni kuhoji kitoto kwa sababu mnakimbia uhalisia.Lakini tukitumia proposition ya pili kwenye conclusion ya tatu,ndipo tunapoingia kwenye infinite regression ya Infinite causes,Ku avoid hii infinite regression ndipo mnapo sema kuwa Mungu lazima asiwe na chanzo,lakini hapa mtakua mnapingana na proposition ya pili mliyotumia Kudai Ulimwengu lazima uwe na cause?
Hivi unasoma unachokiandika?Ndiyo maana nikasema kuhoji kwa mtindo wa mantiki (logic) ni kuhoji kitoto kwa sababu mnakimbia uhalisia.
Swali linakuja imekuwaje mkafikia kwenye hitimisho la kuwa kila kitu lazima kiwe na chanzo ? Huu mchakato mmeufikiaje ?
Sasa hiyo Infinite regelression ipo ? Hili ndilo swali langu kuu. Sisi hatu avoid jambo hilo bali tunaandika uhalisia.
Una Dalili zote za kufa, yaani nikuambie kitu? Huna miaka mitatu ya kuishi Duniani, salama yako ,utubu haraka sana.The question: "If God is the creator, then who created the creator?" is illegitimate because by definition, the Creator is uncreated. He is eternal, without beginning, without end and all affairs return back to Him: (وَأَنَّ إِلَىٰ رَبِّكَ ٱلْمُنتَهَىٰ) "And that to your Lord is the return (of all beings and affairs) (and of all perfections in attributes)." (53:42).
Thus to ask who or what created something that is uncreated is the way of:
a) an ignorant person devoid of intellect,
b) a lying deceiver, a sophist.
Note : Maelezo haya mafupi nime "copy" na ku "paste" toka kwenye tovuti iitwayo "www.aboutatheism.net", mnaweza tembelea huko mpate faida.
Tujadili hili, kwa wale wote ambao huuliza swali hilo, waje watuambie kwanini wanauliza swali hilo.
Ahsante.
Jurjani (Zurri)
Wafia Dini mnatabu,,, kwanini afe, unafikiri adhabu kubwa kuliko zote za Mungu ni kuua... Wacha ujinga tafuta maarifaUna Dalili zote za kufa, yaani nikuambie kitu? Huna miaka mitatu ya kuishi Duniani, salama yako ,utubu haraka sana.
MUNGU ni mwanzo na mwisho.