Labels: Is it out of ignorance?

[TIMING]

A feminist is a real woman after all!
Why do people label others "feminists"?
Imagine Superman if you were to be labeled " that man" as if ni tusi! Would it have made any sense? You are a man anyway.

WoS; whats your point? i thought kila group au jamii ina small components zinazodefine jamii hiyo e.g. makabila, rangi, tabia (where feminism na mambo kama hayo yanaingia) au labda sijkupata vyema...
probably my problem is outside the box and its hard to understand some issues related to gender... Please give me some "school" so that i can be a better man

and if you have references, i will be glad to search for them

.........Dad

 

[WomanOfSubstance]

WoS; its hard to understand some issues related to gender... Please give me some "school" so that i can be a better man

and if you have references, i will be glad to search for them

.........Dad

It is my pleasure to share what I know on the subject of gender.

Since a comprehensive understanding may require more than what I am going to share, I would recommend some readings at a later stage.

To begin, here are some basics on gender for the benefit of anyone who wish to know :

Gender - Refers to the comparative or differential roles, responsibilities and opportunities for women and men in a given society.( u will note that it is society-specific and not of universal application)

Gender Equality -Refers to norms, values, attitudes and perceptions required to attain equal status between women and men without neutralizing the biological differences between women and men.

Gender Relations - Ways in which a culture or society prescribes rights, roles, responsibilities, and identities of women and men in relation to one another

Engender - Be the cause of (a situation or condition). Example: some people believe that poverty engenders crime.

Gender Balance - refers to the participation of an equal number of women and men within an activity or organisation. Examples are representation in committees or in decision making structures.

more will be coming........so stay tuned.

 

[Njilembera]

zeMarcopolo, what has happened is that African women have taken up the charge of western debates on gender relations( does not matter feminism, genderism, sexism ) and used it as means of soliciting grants from abroad, hence the mushrooming of NGOs along sex-bands. Do not worry they form those Chama cha wanawake bla bla for that reason only and they are not a threat to US at all. For those of you in the UK, could you confirm to us whether it is still the case that women of same qualification as men draw lower salaries? I was in the UK during 1980s and 1990s and I was being paid a higher pay than my counterpart who was a Briton, simply because she was(oh is still) a woman. This has never happenned in Bongo, never and it will be.

In Africa, the history tells it all, we had strong and powerful women as 'kings' and we still have very able women who do not wish to be moddycolded(oh my spelling) by men. My daughter and my son are one and the same, my mum and my dad are one and the same, I do not want to get to one being feminist and another musculinist. NO LABELS PLEASE

 

[WomanOfSubstance]

zeMarcopolo, what has happened is that African women have taken up the charge of western debates on gender relations( does not matter feminism, genderism, sexism ) and used it as means of soliciting grants from abroad, hence the mushrooming of NGOs along sex-bands. Do not worry they form those Chama cha wanawake bla bla for that reason only and they are not a threat to US at all. For those of you in the UK, could you confirm to us whether it is still the case that women of same qualification as men draw lower salaries? I was in the UK during 1980s and 1990s and I was being paid a higher pay than my counterpart who was a Briton, simply because she was(oh is still) a woman. This has never happenned in Bongo, never and it will be.

In Africa, the history tells it all, we had strong and powerful women as 'kings' and we still have very able women who do not wish to be moddycolded(oh my spelling) by men. My daughter and my son are one and the same, my mum and my dad are one and the same, I do not want to get to one being feminist and another musculinist. NO LABELS PLEASE

Yes no labels ndugu ila mbona umechanganya mambo sasa?
1.Opportunists abound everywhere ( Environment, anti-corruption, HIV/AIDS,Children, human rights, civic education you name it) and not only in gender - you will be surprised that those benefiting a lot from the so called gender related grants are men!
2.I thought the powerful women rulers were Queens and not Kings LOL - the issue is not to strip off men's powers, positions or even switch titles!

 

[Raia Fulani]

Nawachukia sana hawa feminists. Feminists hamna wanaume na kama wapo ni mashoga. Hawa ndio wanaoharibu familia za ulaya hasa UK. Muulizeni Macha. Huwa nawaona vibibi vya kizungu vikija mlimani kuwalisha sumu dada zetu. Hatuwahitaji wala hatuhitaji feminism

 

[WomanOfSubstance]

Nawachukia sana hawa feminists. Feminists hamna wanaume na kama wapo ni mashoga. Hawa ndio wanaoharibu familia za ulaya hasa UK. Muulizeni Macha. Huwa nawaona vibibi vya kizungu vikija mlimani kuwalisha sumu dada zetu. Hatuwahitaji wala hatuhitaji feminism

Jamani hebu tuache jazba.Kwani wewe unadhani Feminists ni akina nani.FYI siyo mashoga, na kama kuna mashoga ni kama ambavyo wapo katika jamii yoyote ile.Soma michango ya Blueray na wengine hapo juu ili tuwe na uelewa wa pamoja.

Nia ya hii thread ni pamoja na ku de-mystify hii dhana na kuelewa feminists na feminism ni nini ndugu yangu.

 

[TIMING]

Jamani hebu tuache jazba.Kwani wewe unadhani Feminists ni akina nani.FYI siyo mashoga, na kama kuna mashoga ni kama ambavyo wapo katika jamii yoyote ile.Soma michango ya Blueray na wengine hapo juu ili tuwe na uelewa wa pamoja.

Nia ya hii thread ni pamoja na ku de-mystify hii dhana na kuelewa feminists na feminism ni nini ndugu yangu.

True that WoS;

Just one disturbing question --- Ni ni kweli kwamba wanaharakati wengi wa mambo ya kijnsia hawaolewi au walioolewa wameachika?

Na kama ni kweli, je hatuoni kwamba maybe there is a problem katika set ya approach zao?

 

[WomanOfSubstance]

True that WoS;

Just one disturbing question --- Ni ni kweli kwamba wanaharakati wengi wa mambo ya kijnsia hawaolewi au walioolewa wameachika?

Na kama ni kweli, je hatuoni kwamba maybe there is a problem katika set ya approach zao?

MTM,
Hiyo ni Myth tu kwa kweli.And that is the whole point why I initiated this discussion.Kuna a gud/bad coincidence kuwa kweli kwenye hao wanaharakati wapo ambao hawajaolewa/kuachika kama ambavyo ilivyo kwenye shughuli, fani, kazi mbalimbali.
Utakachoona hat akwenye hii thread ni kukosekana kwa uelewa wa dhana na hata michakato hii.Hii inatokana na kukosekana kwa theories ambazo ni homegrown zenye kuweza ku ground concepts na theories kwenye mazingira yetu ya kiafrika au Kitanzania.Wapo waliojaribu kama akina Sara Longway na hata Tz tuna akina Dr Fennela Mkangara wanaojaribu kuweka mwelekeo.Wapo wanaume kama akina Edward Mhina ambao wamebobea katika masuala ya Jinsia na maendeleo.Hawa wote wana familia zao na hawajaharibikiwa kitu.

 

[ZeMarcopolo]

MTM,
Hiyo ni Myth tu kwa kweli.And that is the whole point why I initiated this discussion.Kuna a gud/bad coincidence kuwa kweli kwenye hao wanaharakati wapo ambao hawajaolewa/kuachika kama ambavyo ilivyo kwenye shughuli, fani, kazi mbalimbali.
Utakachoona hat akwenye hii thread ni kukosekana kwa uelewa wa dhana na hata michakato hii.Hii inatokana na kukosekana kwa theories ambazo ni homegrown zenye kuweza ku ground concepts na theories kwenye mazingira yetu ya kiafrika au Kitanzania.Wapo waliojaribu kama akina Sara Longway na hata Tz tuna akina Dr Fennela Mkangara wanaojaribu kuweka mwelekeo.Wapo wanaume kama akina Edward Mhina ambao wamebobea katika masuala ya Jinsia na maendeleo.Hawa wote wana familia zao na hawajaharibikiwa kitu.

WoS, nadhani badala ya kusema wanaochangia wamekosa uelewa ingekuwa sahihi zaidi ungesema kuna kutofautiana kwa uelewa.
Katika harakati ni vyema tukakubali kuwa mitazamo siyo lazima ifanane, na yule mwenye mtazamo tofauti hainaanishi hana uelewa.
Halafu kuhusu kutokuwa na partners kwa wanaharakati, nadhani ni vyema ungejiepusha kukanusha bila kuwa na data za kutosha. Mifano uliyotoa haiwezi kuwawakilisha wanaharakati wote. Ninaamini kuwa swala hili linahitaji utafiti zaidi. Kwa sababu kilichofanyika kwenye jamii zetu tangu harakati hizi zipambe moto mwishoni karne ya 20 ni kuwafundisha wanawake kujaribu kuwa kama wanaume. Haya mafundisho yalikuwa yanakosewa sana, na mpaka sasa kuna mafundisho ya aina hiyo yanaendelea kupotosha wanawake.
Ngoja nitoe mfano: kuna mafundisho kuwa wasichana wakitoka shule wasikubali kufanya kazi zote peke yao wakati wavulana wanacheza, na mafundisho kwa akina mama wasikubali kulima, kubeba kuni na kulea watoto peke yao wakati akina baba wanasoma gazeti.
Nakubali kuwa si sahihi kwa mtoto wa kike kufanya kazi wakati mtoto wa kiume anacheza mpira na kurandaranda mitaani, na nakubali kuwa si sahihi kwa mama kufanya kazi za nyumbani huku baba akiwa muangaliaji tu.
Je, kumfundisha mama asikubali kufanya majukumu ya jamii ni kutatua tatizo? Je, hatukupaswa kuwa kushiriki zaidi na akina baba katika hili. kuwahimiza wao kushiriki badala ya kumwambia mama aache kutenda kitu sahihi anachokitenda.
Tukubaliane kuwa majukumu ya jamii ni lazima yafanywe, sasa badala ya kumhimiza yule asiyeshiriki aanze kushiriki, mafunzo yaliyotolewa yamekuwa yakielekezwa zaidi kwenye kumuondoa yule anayetekeleza. Sasa matokeo ni nini?
Kuna mapungufu mengi sana katika hizi harakati za jinsia.

 

[WomanOfSubstance]

WoS, nadhani badala ya kusema wanaochangia wamekosa uelewa ingekuwa sahihi zaidi ungesema kuna kutofautiana kwa uelewa.
Katika harakati ni vyema tukakubali kuwa mitazamo siyo lazima ifanane, na yule mwenye mtazamo tofauti hainaanishi hana uelewa.
Halafu kuhusu kutokuwa na partners kwa wanaharakati, nadhani ni vyema ungejiepusha kukanusha bila kuwa na data za kutosha. Mifano uliyotoa haiwezi kuwawakilisha wanaharakati wote. Ninaamini kuwa swala hili linahitaji utafiti zaidi. Kwa sababu kilichofanyika kwenye jamii zetu tangu harakati hizi zipambe moto mwishoni karne ya 20 ni kuwafundisha wanawake kujaribu kuwa kama wanaume. Haya mafundisho yalikuwa yanakosewa sana, na mpaka sasa kuna mafundisho ya aina hiyo yanaendelea kupotosha wanawake.
Ngoja nitoe mfano: kuna mafundisho kuwa wasichana wakitoka shule wasikubali kufanya kazi zote peke yao wakati wavulana wanacheza, na mafundisho kwa akina mama wasikubali kulima, kubeba kuni na kulea watoto peke yao wakati akina baba wanasoma gazeti.
Nakubali kuwa si sahihi kwa mtoto wa kike kufanya kazi wakati mtoto wa kiume anacheza mpira na kurandaranda mitaani, na nakubali kuwa si sahihi kwa mama kufanya kazi za nyumbani huku baba akiwa muangaliaji tu.
Je, kumfundisha mama asikubali kufanya majukumu ya jamii ni kutatua tatizo? Je, hatukupaswa kuwa kushiriki zaidi na akina baba katika hili. kuwahimiza wao kushiriki badala ya kumwambia mama aache kutenda kitu sahihi anachokitenda.
Tukubaliane kuwa majukumu ya jamii ni lazima yafanywe, sasa badala ya kumhimiza yule asiyeshiriki aanze kushiriki, mafunzo yaliyotolewa yamekuwa yakielekezwa zaidi kwenye kumuondoa yule anayetekeleza. Sasa matokeo ni nini?
Kuna mapungufu mengi sana katika hizi harakati za jinsia.

asante ndugu...nakubali kuwa tunatofautiana..hata wewe na mimi tunatofautiana kwenye mtizamo.
Mfano hata unaotoa hapa kuwa watoto na wanawake wanaambiwa kukataa kufanya au kutekeleza majukumu sidhani ni sahihi...na kama kuna anayehimiza hili basi kapotoka vibaya sana.Kinachohimizwa ni kushirikiana na kuwa na mipango mizuri itakayowezesha wote washiriki na kunufaika.Chukulia mfano mdogo wa kazi za nyumbani - inahimizwa wazazi kuwafundisha shughuli watoto wote wa kike na wa kiume.Hii ina faida pia kama mtoto wa kiume atajua kupika ni kwa manufaa yake ya baadae.na endapo watashirikiana basi watoto wote watapata muda wa kupumzika na kujisomea.Endapo baba atamsaidia mama, basi mama atajisikia vizuri hata upendo utaongezeka.
Kama kuna wanaofundisha kugoma kufanya shughuli za jamii basi hawajui maana ya gender/jinsia.

 

[Zakumi]

MTM,
Hiyo ni Myth tu kwa kweli.And that is the whole point why I initiated this discussion.Kuna a gud/bad coincidence kuwa kweli kwenye hao wanaharakati wapo ambao hawajaolewa/kuachika kama ambavyo ilivyo kwenye shughuli, fani, kazi mbalimbali.
Utakachoona hat akwenye hii thread ni kukosekana kwa uelewa wa dhana na hata michakato hii.Hii inatokana na kukosekana kwa theories ambazo ni homegrown zenye kuweza ku ground concepts na theories kwenye mazingira yetu ya kiafrika au Kitanzania.Wapo waliojaribu kama akina Sara Longway na hata Tz tuna akina Dr Fennela Mkangara wanaojaribu kuweka mwelekeo.Wapo wanaume kama akina Edward Mhina ambao wamebobea katika masuala ya Jinsia na maendeleo.Hawa wote wana familia zao na hawajaharibikiwa kitu.

WoS:

Mimi sio mwanaharakati wa kitu chochote kile. Hila nitatoa mfano mmoja nilionasa wiki katika shughuli zangu.

Inasemekana waRumi, waMisri na himaya za kale zilikuwa na technology na uwezo wa kufuta umasikini.

Tatizo lililokuwepo ni kuwa technology na uwezo uliokuwepo ulisaidia kulinda zaidi wachache waliopo katika upper class. Na matokeo yake hakuna ubora wa maisha uliotokea.

Ubora wa maisha ulianza kutokea wakati wa industrial revolution. Revolution hii na mabadiliko yaliofuatia kama French revolution yawezesha kuwepo kwa middle class ambayo iliweza kufikiwa na watu masikini.

Now tukirudi kwenye mada, wanawake ni zaidi ya 50% ya population. Hivyo kwa nchi kama Tanzania inatakiwa kuchagua vitu viwili. Tutoe haki kwa wanawake hili na wao watoe mchango wao katika shughuli za maendeleo kama middle class ilivyofanya Europe. Au tuendeleze status quo.

 

[WomanOfSubstance]

WoS:

Mimi sio mwanaharakati wa kitu chochote kile. Hila nitatoa mfano mmoja nilionasa wiki katika shughuli zangu.

Inasemekana waRumi, waMisri na himaya za kale zilikuwa na technology na uwezo wa kufuta umasikini.

Tatizo lililokuwepo ni kuwa technology na uwezo uliokuwepo ulisaidia kulinda zaidi wachache waliopo katika upper class. Na matokeo yake hakuna ubora wa maisha uliotokea.

Ubora wa maisha ulianza kutokea wakati wa industrial revolution. Revolution hii na mabadiliko yaliofuatia kama French revolution yawezesha kuwepo kwa middle class ambayo iliweza kufikiwa na watu masikini.

Now tukirudi kwenye mada, wanawake ni zaidi ya 50% ya population. Hivyo kwa nchi kama Tanzania inatakiwa kuchagua vitu viwili. Tutoe haki kwa wanawake hili na wao watoe mchango wao katika shughuli za maendeleo kama middle class ilivyofanya Europe. Au tuendeleze status quo.

Thanks buddy,
Binafsi nimeona kwenye discussions nyingi humu jamvini kuna wenzetu wakiona unajaribu kuangalia masuala ya EQUITY( justice and fairness) moja kwa moja wanakuja juu na kuanza kuattack eti wewe ni feminist, au wewe ni TGNP.Nadhani umefikia wakati for biting the bullet to address the real issues.Suali ulilouliza hapa ( in bold) nafikiri ndio lenyewe.Hebu tuone michango itakavyokuja.

 

[Eqlypz]

Thanks buddy,
Binafsi nimeona kwenye discussions nyingi humu jamvini kuna wenzetu wakiona unajaribu kuangalia masuala ya EQUITY( justice and fairness) moja kwa moja wanakuja juu na kuanza kuattack eti wewe ni feminist, au wewe ni TGNP.Nadhani umefikia wakati for biting the bullet to address the real issues.Suali ulilouliza hapa ( in bold) nafikiri ndio lenyewe.Hebu tuone michango itakavyokuja.

Mkitaka haki sawa basi anzeni kwa kuondoa vitu kama viti maalumu(wabunge), vyama vya waandishi wa habari wanawake/madaktari etc etc.

Lakini mwisho wa siku wanawake wenyewe kwa wenyewe wanaangashuna maana sio wote wanaokubaliana.
Kwa mfano ile issue ya sex boycott iliyofanyika Kenya.

 

[WomanOfSubstance]

Mkitaka haki sawa basi anzeni kwa kuondoa vitu kama viti maalumu(wabunge), vyama vya waandishi wa habari wanawake/madaktari etc etc.

Lakini mwisho wa siku wanawake wenyewe kwa wenyewe wanaangashuna maana sio wote wanaokubaliana.
Kwa mfano ile issue ya sex boycott iliyofanyika Kenya.

Ndugu yangu..
Nadhani hapa hakuna mtu anataka kitu - hivyo kutumia lugha ya " mkitaka" ni kama vile haikuhusu ilhali unachangia.Huu mjadala ni wa kila mtu.
Tukirudi kwenye ishu - Kweli umezungumzia viti maalum - hivi vilikuwa na lengo - affirmative action kwa maana kuziba pengo ili kuwa na mwanzo kwa pamoja.Ni kama kwenye mbio si lazima wote mkae mstari sawa ndipo mkimbie?.Binafsi msimamo wangu kwenye viti maalum nitakuambia sivipendi wala sivifagilii hasa ukizingatia kuwa kuna wanawake wameingia bungeni kupitia viti hivyo na ingetegemewa baada ya kupata uzoefu wangeviachia wakagombee majimboni.

Unaingiza ishu ya kenya na boycot - hii nayo nitasema ni shu tofauti...na nisingependa kuabza mjadala on it maana nitakuwa napoteza mwelekeo wa hii mada.

 

[OsamaBinLaden]

Nyinyi wanawake munaotaka usawa na wanaume..labda niulize swali samahani kama litachafua hali ya hewa...?


Na mimba pia tutasaidiana kubeba?


Na sisi tunataka usawa hadi vyooni mana ukivifika ****** unambiwa huku ladies huku gantlemen huu pia ni ubaguzi kiwe kimoja tu ...equality.





Sema ukweli hata kama utachukiwa.

 

[Eqlypz]

Ndugu yangu..
Nadhani hapa hakuna mtu anataka kitu - hivyo kutumia lugha ya " mkitaka" ni kama vile haikuhusu ilhali unachangia.Huu mjadala ni wa kila mtu.
Tukirudi kwenye ishu - Kweli umezungumzia viti maalum - hivi vilikuwa na lengo - affirmative action kwa maana kuziba pengo ili kuwa na mwanzo kwa pamoja.Ni kama kwenye mbio si lazima wote mkae mstari sawa ndipo mkimbie?.Binafsi msimamo wangu kwenye viti maalum nitakuambia sivipendi wala sivifagilii hasa ukizingatia kuwa kuna wanawake wameingia bungeni kupitia viti hivyo na ingetegemewa baada ya kupata uzoefu wangeviachia wakagombee majimboni.

Unaingiza ishu ya kenya na boycot - hii nayo nitasema ni shu tofauti...na nisingependa kuabza mjadala on it maana nitakuwa napoteza mwelekeo wa hii mada.

Issue ya Kenya nimeileta kama mfano wa kuwa wanawake wenyewe wanaangushana kwenye hizi movements zao(kuna waliokubali lakini hawakutekeleza na wapo waliotekeleza).

Swali, umeshawahi kusoma kitabu cha Betty Friedan cha The Feminine Mystique?

 

[WomanOfSubstance]

Are we on the same wavelength?

 

[Zakumi]

Nyinyi wanawake munaotaka usawa na wanaume..labda niulize swali samahani kama litachafua hali ya hewa...?


Na mimba pia tutasaidiana kubeba?


Na sisi tunataka usawa hadi vyooni mana ukivifika ****** unambiwa huku ladies huku gantlemen huu pia ni ubaguzi kiwe kimoja tu ...equality.





Sema ukweli hata kama utachukiwa.

Katika itikadi au movements zozote kuna extremists. Kuna waIslamu, extremists. Kuna waKristo extremists. Kuna wajamaa extremists.

Mfano uliotoa hapa ni umelenga wale feminists ambao ni extremists. Sidhani kama WoS yupo katika hilo kundi.

 

[WomanOfSubstance]

Katika itikadi au movements zozote kuna extremists. Kuna waIslamu, extremists. Kuna waKristo extremists. Kuna wajamaa extremists.

Mfano uliotoa hapa ni umelenga wale feminists ambao ni extremists. Sidhani kama WoS yupo katika hilo kundi.

Asante Za10
Nimejiskia uvivu hata kujibu kwa maana msimamo wangu toka mwanzo nimeuweka wazi - nimetofautisha baina ya feminists wa kawaida na wale radical feminists.Sasa unapoona mtu hataki kuona - inabidi umwache alivyo.

 

[MzalendoHalisi]

Wabunge wengine viti maalumu walipewa through sex favour..je WoS hii ni aina gani ya affirmative action?