Kwanini Mungu hakurekebisha kilichosababisha shetani akaasi kabla ya kumuumba binadamu?

gTurn said:
Turudi kwenye mada Mungu mwenyewe ndio alitaka shetani aasi na ili aje kua Mtihani kwa watu wake kupima imani zao na alijua. Kama ata asi before shetani alikua kiumbe ana sali kuliko malaika wote na yeye aliishi duniani kabla na sio kama wengi wanavyohisi kua ni malaika noo shetani ni kizazi cha majini kwa kua aliumbwa kwa moto na hakuumbwa kwa light kama ilivyo malaika..so kwanini Mungu anajua yajayo? Mungu alipomuumba Adam shetani alipatwa na wivu balaa na kuanza kukomplaini chini chini kipindi iko hata adama ajapuliziwa pumzi yani yupo tu kawekwa kama sanamu na alikaa hivyo kwa muda wa miaka kama 200 hivi bila kupuliziwa pumzi ya Mungu shetani wivu unamshika kwakua dunia anenda kukabidhiwa adam akawa anatoa madhaifu kiumbe gani yeye anaweza kupitia mdomoni akatokea upande wa pili yaani una tundu juu na chini. Sasa Mungu alijua kua shetani hata afiki ndio maana aliwaambia malaika wote wamsjudie Adam na wakafanya hivyo isikua huyo ibilisi..kwanini alikataa na hapo ndio uthibitisho kua yeye sio malaika hakuna malaika anayeweza kupinga amri ya mwnyezi Mungu..wameumbwa hivyo hawapingi. Kwa hio ana kazi maalum hapa dunian so isikupe taabu..
Reffernce fuatlia katka Quran na hadith
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Umeelezea vizuri mno quran na khadithi, ila maoni yako kwa Mungu ndio yana makosa.

Alafu pia, kwa maelezo yako ni kuwa, shetani ni jini?

Nadhani maandiko ya kiislamu yanathibitisha kuwa Majini karibu yote yanamuabudu Allah, so, inakuaje hapa?

Nadhani unapaswa kuelewa kuwa hata zamani watu walikuwa wanaishi miaka mia nane hadi mia tisa. Mbona io hali haipo mpaka sasa? Unadhani ni Kwanini?
 
Hakimu Mfawidhi said:
Habari ya jumapili.

Dini inasema shetani aliasi huko juu mbunguni mahala palipotukuka na palipoinuka juu anapoishi mungu. Baada ya shetani kuasi mungu akamtimua na kumshusha huku Duniani.

Dini inasema baadae mungu akamuumba mwanadamu na kumuweka Duniani, maana yake mwanadamu alipowekwa duniani tayari shetani alikua duniani muda mrefu tu anakula zake maisha.

Hadithi ya shetani kuasi iko one sided, yaani inaelezwa kutoka upande wa mungu, hakuna aliewahi kusikia upande wa shetani(tayari binadam wanamshutumu shetani kwa habari ya kuambiwa, one sided story, hivyo shetani anahukumiwa kua ni mbaya bila kusikilizwa).

Dini haisemi kwa nini shetani aliasi na ilikuaje akaasi. Dini inasema mungu anajua kila kitu, all knowing lakini haisemi mungu alishindwaje kujua kua shetani atakuja kuasi ili asimuumbe. Na kama alijua shetani atakuja kuasi kwa nini alimuacha aasi. Mbaya zaidi huo mgogoro wao umetuingiza na sisi binadam ambao hatujui chanzo cha mgogoro. Yaani mungu anarecruit binadam washirikiane nae mwenye mgogoro wake na shetani huku binadam hawajui chanzo cha mgogoro wao. Na mungu anatishia kua yoyote ambae hatashirikiana nae kwenye mgogoro huo atampanish vikali. Unajiuliza hakuaje involved kwenye mgogoro nisioujua chanzo chake na natishiwa adhabu kali kama sitashiriki huo mgogoro ambao in fact haupo kwa sababu mungu hajaonyesha kuwepo, hivyo watu waoga na wajinga wanalazimika kushiriki mgogoro blindly ili kuogopa adhabu.

Kama mungu anawapenda wanadamu kama dini inavyosema alipaswa kurekebisha kasoro zilizojitokeza kabla ya kumuumba mwanadam, lakini pia alipaswa kujua in the first hand kua shetani atakuja kuasi kabla hajamuumba, vinginevyo hajui kila kitu kinyume na inavyosemekana kua anajua kila kitu.

Tukubali tukatae, maovu yote duniani kama mauaji, wivu, kifo, husda, wizi, matetemeko ya ardhi, tsunami, vimbunga, ukame, magonjwa yote chanzo chake ni mungu. Mungu ameshindwa kabisa kutuonyesha kua kweli anatupenda kama anavyosemwa, ameshindwa kuonyesha kweli kua anajali Mbaya zaidi ameyatengeneza alafu ameshindwa kuyaondoa.

Hii mada inaendelea.

Nyongeza ya mjumbe.
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Mkuu, maswali yako ni maswali muhimu sana ambayo siyo Wewe tu, watu wengi wanajiuliza, pamoja na kwamba hujaweka alama za ulizo! Kwanza kabisa una uhakika gani kwamba Mungu alimuumba kwanza shetani, alafu baada ya shetani kuasi ndo akamuumba mwanadamu?! Angalia vyazo vyako vizuri, kwa sababu, hakuna ufafanuzi dhairi wa kimaandiko kuhusu hilo!

La pili ni hilo Kwanini Mungu alimuumba shetani kama alijua kwamba badaye shetani atakuja kuasi?! Nafikiri kwenye swali lako, kuna point kubwa sana! Lakini Labda tungejadili uasi wa wanadamu kwa sababu umesema shetani kwa upande wake hakupewa nafasi ya kusema upande wake! Kwa kuwa wanadamu ni waasi pia, tungejiuliza Kwanini Mungu alimuumba mwanadamu kama alijua kwamba ataasi?!

Jambo kubwa ni utashi, free will, Mungu amempa mwanadamu utashi, ambao ni uwezo binafsi wa kuchagua au kufanya maamuzi! Ni upendo mkubwa wa Mungu kwamba amemwacha mwanadamu kufanya maamuzi yake, akiwa amemwelekeza yaliyo mema, lakini anataka tuchague! Mungu angetumia remote kutucontral isingekuwa upendo, anataka tuchague mema, na risk ni kwamba tunaweza kutumia utashi vibaya na kuchagua mabaya, kitu ambacho, wanadamu wamefanya tangu mwanzo!

Mungu alipo muumba mwanadamu kwa viwango alivyo muumba alijua kwamba kuna mawili, mwanadamu atachagua kutii au kuasi! Nafikiri kwa shetani ni hivyo hivyo!
 
santesandy said:
Mkuu, maswali yako ni maswali muhimu sana ambayo siyo Wewe tu, watu wengi wanajiuliza, pamoja na kwamba hujaweka alama za ulizo! Kwanza kabisa una uhakika gani kwamba Mungu alimuumba kwanza shetani, alafu baada ya shetani kuasi ndo akamuumba mwanadamu?! Angalia vyazo vyako vizuri, kwa sababu, hakuna ufafanuzi dhairi wa kimaandiko kuhusu hilo!

La pili ni hilo Kwanini Mungu alimuumba shetani kama alijua kwamba badaye shetani atakuja kuasi?! Nafikiri kwenye swali lako, kuna point kubwa sana! Lakini Labda tungejadili uasi wa wanadamu kwa sababu umesema shetani kwa upande wake hakupewa nafasi ya kusema upande wake! Kwa kuwa wanadamu ni waasi pia, tungejiuliza Kwanini Mungu alimuumba mwanadamu kama alijua kwamba ataasi?!

Jambo kubwa ni utashi, free will, Mungu amempa mwanadamu utashi, ambao ni uwezo binafsi wa kuchagua au kufanya maamuzi! Ni upendo mkubwa wa Mungu kwamba amemwacha mwanadamu kufanya maamuzi yake, akiwa amemwelekeza yaliyo mema, lakini anataka tuchague! Mungu angetumia remote kutucontral isingekuwa upendo, anataka tuchague mema, na risk ni kwamba tunaweza kutumia utashi vibaya na kuchagua mabaya, kitu ambacho, wanadamu wamefanya tangu mwanzo!

Mungu alipo muumba mwanadamu kwa viwango alivyo muumba alijua kwamba kuna mawili, mwanadamu atachagua kutii au kuasi! Nafikiri kwa shetani ni hivyo hivyo!
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Free will ipi iyo mimi sikupenda kuzariwa black sikupenda kuzariwa bongo,sikupenda kuzaliwa maskini free will iyo ni ipi boss.
 
allypipi said:
Free will ipi iyo mimi sikupenda kuzariwa black sikupenda kuzariwa bongo,sikupenda kuzaliwa maskini free will iyo ni ipi boss.
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Free will ni uwezo ambao Mungu amekupa wa kufanya uchaguzi au maamuzi! Sasa hayo mengine, kuzaliwa yalikua maamuzi ya Baba na mama ako! Kuhusu umasikini, kama Una mikono miwili na miguu miwili, Una afya nzuri, tumia tu kichwa vizuri, utawini tu!
 
Hakimu Mfawidhi said:
Habari ya jumapili.

Dini inasema shetani aliasi huko juu mbunguni mahala palipotukuka na palipoinuka juu anapoishi mungu. Baada ya shetani kuasi mungu akamtimua na kumshusha huku Duniani.

Dini inasema baadae mungu akamuumba mwanadamu na kumuweka Duniani, maana yake mwanadamu alipowekwa duniani tayari shetani alikua duniani muda mrefu tu anakula zake maisha.

Hadithi ya shetani kuasi iko one sided, yaani inaelezwa kutoka upande wa mungu, hakuna aliewahi kusikia upande wa shetani(tayari binadam wanamshutumu shetani kwa habari ya kuambiwa, one sided story, hivyo shetani anahukumiwa kua ni mbaya bila kusikilizwa).

Dini haisemi kwa nini shetani aliasi na ilikuaje akaasi. Dini inasema mungu anajua kila kitu, all knowing lakini haisemi mungu alishindwaje kujua kua shetani atakuja kuasi ili asimuumbe. Na kama alijua shetani atakuja kuasi kwa nini alimuacha aasi. Mbaya zaidi huo mgogoro wao umetuingiza na sisi binadam ambao hatujui chanzo cha mgogoro. Yaani mungu anarecruit binadam washirikiane nae mwenye mgogoro wake na shetani huku binadam hawajui chanzo cha mgogoro wao. Na mungu anatishia kua yoyote ambae hatashirikiana nae kwenye mgogoro huo atampanish vikali. Unajiuliza hakuaje involved kwenye mgogoro nisioujua chanzo chake na natishiwa adhabu kali kama sitashiriki huo mgogoro ambao in fact haupo kwa sababu mungu hajaonyesha kuwepo, hivyo watu waoga na wajinga wanalazimika kushiriki mgogoro blindly ili kuogopa adhabu.

Kama mungu anawapenda wanadamu kama dini inavyosema alipaswa kurekebisha kasoro zilizojitokeza kabla ya kumuumba mwanadam, lakini pia alipaswa kujua in the first hand kua shetani atakuja kuasi kabla hajamuumba, vinginevyo hajui kila kitu kinyume na inavyosemekana kua anajua kila kitu.

Tukubali tukatae, maovu yote duniani kama mauaji, wivu, kifo, husda, wizi, matetemeko ya ardhi, tsunami, vimbunga, ukame, magonjwa yote chanzo chake ni mungu. Mungu ameshindwa kabisa kutuonyesha kua kweli anatupenda kama anavyosemwa, ameshindwa kuonyesha kweli kua anajali Mbaya zaidi ameyatengeneza alafu ameshindwa kuyaondoa.

Hii mada inaendelea.

Nyongeza ya mjumbe.
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The answer is very simple:-
1.Alishampa Mwanadamu free will,so he can choose between Lucifer and God.God is a true democrat if you wish,he does not want to force things.
2.Alishampa Mwanadamu uwezo wa kumshinda Lucifer if he wants.
3.God wants only those who truly love him:those who come to him by choice,not those who are forced into him.
 
Lingine,
Inafahamika kwamba dini zetu tumezifahamu baada ya ujio wa wakoloni kwa kutuletea vitabu na mafundisho yake

Sasa swali linakuja hapa je wale waliokufa kabla ya kuzitambua hizo dini wanahesabiwa haki au wanahesabiwa hukumu ?
 
Ugobha said:
Hilo kweli kwa aslimia kubwa kwa sababu Kuna baadhi ya sehemu ya biblia upande huu unapingana na upande wa pili
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Ukiwasoma wasomi wa Biblia kama Profesa James Kugel (Emeritus Professor, Harvard) utajua mengi sana kuhusu Biblia ilivyoandikwa, mengi sana ni tofauti na watu wanavyoamini.


How to Read the Bible​

A Guide to Scripture, Then and Now​

READ AN EXCERPT
Scholars from different fields have joined forces to reexamine every aspect of the Hebrew Bible. Their research, carried out in universities and seminaries in Europe and America, has revolutionized our understanding of almost every chapter and verse. But have they killed the Bible in the process?

In How to Read the Bible, Harvard professor James Kugel leads the reader chapter by chapter through the “quiet revolution” of recent biblical scholarship, showing time and again how radically the interpretations of today’s researchers differ from what people have always thought. The story of Adam and Eve, it turns out, was not originally about the “Fall of Man,” but about the move from a primitive, hunter-gatherer society to a settled, agricultural one. As for the stories of Cain and Abel, Abraham and Sarah, and Jacob and Esau, these narratives were not, at their origin, about individual people at all but, rather, explanations of some feature of Israelite society as it existed centuries after these figures were said to have lived. Dinah was never raped — her story was created by an editor to solve a certain problem in Genesis. In the earliest version of the Exodus story, Moses probably did not divide the Red Sea in half; instead, the Egyptians perished in a storm at sea. Whatever the original Ten Commandments might have been, scholars are quite sure they were different from the ones we have today. What’s more, the people long supposed to have written various books of the Bible were not, in the current consensus, their real authors: David did not write the Psalms, Solomon did not write Proverbs or Ecclesiastes; indeed, there is scarcely a book in the Bible that is not the product of different, anonymous authors and editors working in different periods.

Such findings pose a serious problem for adherents of traditional, Bible-based faiths. Hiding from the discoveries of modern scholars seems dishonest, but accepting them means undermining much of the Bible’s reliability and authority as the word of God. What to do? In his search for a solution, Kugel leads the reader back to a group of ancient biblical interpreters who flourished at the end of the biblical period. Far from naïve, these interpreters consciously set out to depart from the original meaning of the Bible’s various stories, laws, and prophecies — and they, Kugel argues, hold the key to solving the dilemma of reading the Bible today.

How to Read the Bible is, quite simply, the best, most original book about the Bible in decades. It offers an unflinching, insider’s look at the work of today’s scholars, together with a sustained consideration of what the Bible was for most of its history — before the rise of modern scholarship. Readable, clear, often funny but deeply serious in its purpose, this is a book for Christians and Jews, believers and secularists alike. It offers nothing less than a whole new way of thinking about sacred Scripture.
 
Vitabu hivyo hivyo ninasema yafuatayo

.
imeandikwa Mungu akasema na tumfanye mtu kwa mfano wetu.. je Mungu alikuwa anaongea na nani ?

so kama unasema Mungu alitakiwa amfungie shetani kabla ya kumuumba binadam kuna arguments zifuatatazo kutokana na hiyo statment hapo juu

Kuna nadharia imasema shetan alikuwa right hand wa Mungu na aliasi baada ya Binadam kuumbwa.. na kuna nadharia inasema chanzo ni kuwa shetan aliquestion mamlaka aliopewa binadam kutawala dunia na pia malaika wote akiwemo yeye shetab kutakiwa kumsujudia Binadam wakat anatambulishwa baada ya uumbaji.

shetan aliquestion kwa nn kiumbe tuliemzid uwezo tumsujudie.. rejea andiko la biblia wakat Mungu anasema na tumfanye mtu kwa mfano wetu.. maana alikuwa anazungumza na washirika wake wengine possibly malaika

pia shetan hakuwa banned peke yake.. kundi lilioasi lilikuwa na malaika 7 ( kama ushawah kusikia fallen angels) ndo walipelekwa kuzimu, shetan akiwa kiongoz wao na nafas ya shetan kama malaika mkuu akaichukua Grabiel

ila nadharia inasema Kujaribiwa kwa binadam ni ombi la Shetan kwa Mungu kuwa kama
kweli unamuona huyo kiumbe chako ni mtiifu kwako na bora nasi niruhusu nimjaribu.. rejea kwenye biblia majaribu ya Ayoub, had Yesu mwenyewe

so one can argue kuwa Mungu anamruhusu shetan akujaribu ili kujua loyalty yako iko wapi..

Pepo hazina sifa pasipo jehanam.. uzuri wa kipimo cha mema ni ubaya..

pandikiz la tamaa lilipandwa pale eden ambapo shetan kwa mara ya kwanza akamtest binadam ili kumuonyesha Mungu kuwa huyo kiumbe chako Mang'aa.

Mungu akaamua kumwadhibu binadam ila laana ya tamaa imeendelea kutamalak vizaz hadi vizaz

Pia pengine ule uwezo wetu wa kiakili wa kuweza kutawaa dunia plus shetan kutupa siri ya mema na mabaya ndo yameharibu

ni sawa utengeneze Robot lianze kumultfunction na kumbe kuna mtu katengeneza kirus na kaki install kwenye robot lako matokeo yake robot lina uwezo wa kujiupdate na kukataa command zako

by the way mwisho wa siku ni nadharia tu ... mambo bado hayako waz the more u dig the more u become suspicious... na Mungu kesha kwambia usimchunguze sana utakufa.. Unaambiwa Musa aliona kisogo tu shughuli aliipata
 
Ugobha said:
Lingine,
Inafahamika kwamba dini zetu tumezifahamu baada ya ujio wa wakoloni kwa kutuletea vitabu na mafundisho yake

Sasa swali linakuja hapa je wale waliokufa kabla ya kuzitambua hizo dini wanahesabiwa haki au wanahesabiwa hukumu ?
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Utaambiwa Mungu atawachoma moto wa milele.

Hakuna wokovu bila kupitia kwa Yesu.

Au hakuna Mungu ila Allah na Mtume Muhammad ndiye mtume wake.

Na watu wanaamini.

Worse still, Waafrika.
 
Waliozama ktk habari za Mungu na shetani wanadai shetani/ ibilisi/ Lucifer amewekwa ili Mungu atupime imani yetu juu yake yeye Mungu, kama tutavishinda vishawishi vibaya vya shetani basi tutakuwa tumefaulu na hatimae kutunukiwa pepo neno paradiso kwa kiebrania au jannat kwa kiarabu lina maana kua huru mbali na makosa.

Kushindwa ni kuanguka maana yake utalipwa jehanam/hell wewe unakosa la kumuunga mkono shetani. Kwa hoja hizo juu Mungu hakushindwa kumdhibiti shetani bali aliachwa strategically, kupambana na huyo kiumbe kunahitaji elimu na msaada wa Mungu si hiv hiv tu, ndio maana ktk amri muhimu kwa mwanadmu ktk ukristo na uislamu ni kuitafuta elimu mahali ilipo mfano uislamu neno soma! au Iqraa ni command au mshike sana elimu..........! ktk ukristo inamtaka mwanadamu kuanza na elimu.

Baada ya elimu ni kuomba msaada/assistance kwa Mungu maana shetani anaweza pia akakuchezea japo umesoma, unaweza kujiona kua wewe ni msomi kuliko wote duniani hicho ni kiburi, in short atakujia vile wewe ulivyo hivyo msaada wa Mungu ni muhimu.
Napingana na wewe kuwa huwezi kushindwa na kitu ulichokitengeneza mwenyewe!
 
Shetani ni binadamu mwenyewe.
Ukimwondoa binadamu duniani, kutabaki hakuna shetani. Akili ya mwanadamu imemtengeneza shetani ili kuelezea mapungufu yake, lakini nje ya maisha ya mwanadamu, yaani kwa wanyama, miti, milima na sayari na ulimwengu kwa ujumla hakuna kiumbe au kitu kinachoitwa shetani.
 
Ulimwengu una viumbe wengi sana visible na invisible one kuwaona wengine hadi msaada wa machines, wewe ukibaki kusema wapo simba, mbuz na ng'ombe kwa sababu macho yako yameona hao tu nadhan itakuwa si sawa.
 
Cha asubuhi said:
haya mambo ni hatareee sana mwanzo life coded nilikua nambishia sana kuhusu haya mambo ya kiiman za kimungu

kunasiku nilimuuliza mchungaj juu ya ile kauli ya "MIMI MUNGU MWENYE WIVU" jibu alilonipa sita kaaa niende kanisan tena
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