Iran imekwisha!

Kipala said:
Mpendwa una mawazo ya ajabu kweli.
1. Ni wazi ya kwamba Ukristo una uhusiano wa karibu sana na Uyahudi. Sehemu kubwa ya Biblia yangu nimerithi kutoka Wayahudi, Yesu yangu alikuwa Myahudi, nimejifunza amnri 10 kufuatana na mapokeo ya Kiyahudi na mengi mengine.

2. Je umeongea na Wayahudi wangapi? - wapi unapata picha ya kwamba wanamwona Yesu mahali pale unapotaja kwa maneno ya ajabu? Si kweli na sidhani wewe una uwezo wa kupima. Wayahudi ninayojua mimi wako pande tatu: wengine hawajali habari za Yesu kabisa; wengine wanamwona alikuwa mmoja kati ya wazushi wengi katika historia ya Uyahudi (ambao bado wanawaona kama Wayahudi!) na wengine tena wanamheshimu kama mwalimu wa maana fulani katika historia ya kiyahudi lakini wakristo hawakumweleewa na kupinda ujumbe wake.

3. Halafu unajipinga kulingana na maelezo yako ya juu. Huko juu ulijaribu kutofautisha kati ya Uzayuni na Uyahudi na kutueleza ni mambo mawili tofauti - hapa unajumlisha yote pamoja. Vipi sasa????
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ni kweli ukristo umetokana na uyahudi na yesu ni myahudi lakin wao hawamkubali yesu kama kristo wanamchukulia kama gaidi asiyeitakia mema dini yao na anachomwa moto saiz kwajil ya kukufuru kwa kujiita masiya,hata mafundisho yake yesu kwao hawayakubali wanaendelea kufuata torati waliyopewa na musa na talmud

haitaji kuongea na myahudi kujua msimamo wao wakati magazet,mitandao, vitabu vyao mbalimbali na utaratibu wao wa kusali kama dini hakuna sehemu wanamtambua yesu kama nabii wala masiya na hata ufufuko wa yesu wanachukulia ni utapeli mkubwa

kuna tofauti kubwa ya uyahudi na ukristo ndugu huku unakatazwa kula baadhi ya chakula kama nguruwe nk kwani ni najis na unavunja sheria wakati wakristo wanakula sasa wewe kweli unaielewa dini yako?madhani ww unajichanganya zaidi practically kimatendo na kimafundisho kama unakula kitimoto halaf unajifunza kwenye agano la kale kitabu cha wayahud
 
Hakuna Myahudi nimjuaye (hapa tukizungumzia mfuasi wa dini ya Kiyahudi) anyemheshimu Yesu. Acha kupotosha. Huenda Myahudi asiyejali au asye dini akawa kwa kibinadamu tu anamheshimu Yesu, kama watu wengi wengine wa dini mbali mbali au hata wasio dini.
Dini ya Kiyahudi (Judaism) iliyotokana na vitabu vya Tanakh, Talmud na Torah wenyewe wanadai imeendelea bila kukatika kwa muda wa miaka 3,500....vipi Ukristo wa miaka 2012 iliyopita uwe sehemu ya Uyahudi?
Hebu jaribu kwenda Israel na Biblia yako uhubiri kwenye barabara za Tel Aviv, au Haifa, au Jerusalem kama hawatakutemea mate!
Kuhusu Uzayuni ni kweli kabisa, mimi natafautisha baina ya Uyahudi kama dini na Mayahudi Wazayuni ambao wana fikra ziyakazopelekea kuteketeza ulimwengu, kwani haiwezekani binadamu wote kuja siku moja kuwa watumwa kwa kikundi cha watu wanaojiona ni 'wateule' kwa maana ya 'racists' ya kuwafanywa wengine si kitu. Hii ndiyo basis ya Zionism.
 
Sijali said:
Hakuna Myahudi nimjuaye (hapa tukizungumzia mfuasi wa dini ya Kiyahudi) anyemheshimu Yesu. Acha kupotosha. .....
Dini ya Kiyahudi (Judaism) iliyotokana na vitabu vya Tanakh, Talmud na Torah wenyewe wanadai imeendelea bila kukatika kwa muda wa miaka 3,500....vipi Ukristo wa miaka 2012 iliyopita uwe sehemu ya Uyahudi?
Hebu jaribu kwenda Israel na Biblia yako uhubiri kwenye barabara za Tel Aviv, au Haifa, au Jerusalem kama hawatakutemea mate! ...
Wowowo! Maneno mazito - mtaalamu mkubwa hapo, sivyo???
Basi sijui kama umewahi kusikia habari za Martin Buber (kama la -ninavyoogopa- nenda google ujielemishe)? Ameaga dunia lakini hadi leo anatazamiwa kama mwalimu mkubwa wa Uyahudi wa Kiashkenazi.

Basi:
The highly respected Jewish philosopher Martin Buber wrote:
From my youth onwards I have found in Jesus my great brother. That Christianity has regarded and does regard him as God and Savior has always appeared to me a fact of the highest importance which, for his sake and my own, I must endeavor to understand...I am more than ever certain that a great place belongs to him in Israel's history of faith and that this place cannot be described by any of the usual categories. [2]
​
In an interview, Albert Einstein observed:
As a child I received instruction both in the Bible and in the Talmud. I am a Jew, but I am enthralled by the luminous figure of the Nazarene...No one can read the Gospels without feeling the actual presence of Jesus. His personality pulsates in every word. No myth is filled with such life. [3]
​
One-time President of the Central Conference of American Rabbis, Hyman Enelow noted:
Who can compute all that Jesus has meant to humanity? The love he has inspired, the solace he has given, the good he has engendered, the hope and joy he has kindled-all that is unequalled in human history. [4]
​
The former president of Hebrew Union College, Rabbi Kaufman Kohler addressed Congress in 1893 in the following fashion:
No ethical system or religious catechism, however broad and pure, could equal the efficiency of this great personality, standing, unlike any other, midway between heaven and earth, equally near to God and to man...Jesus, the helper of the poor, the friend of the sinner, the brother of every fellow-sufferer, the comforter of every sorrow-laden, the healer of the sick, the up-lifter of the fallen, the lover of man, the redeemer of woman, won the heart of mankind by storm. Jesus, the meekest of men, the most despised of the despised race of the Jews, mounted the world's throne to be earth's Great King. [5]

​
chanzo: Jesus Through Jewish Eyes: A Rabbi Examines the Life and Teachings of Jesus

Nilivyosema, ni sehemu ya Wayahudu tu ilhali wengine hawamjali au kutojua. lakini hao wanaomheshimu kama MYahudi mwenzao mwenye maana si wachache tena wana sauti.
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Kipala said:
Sijali said:
Hakuna Myahudi nimjuaye (hapa tukizungumzia mfuasi wa dini ya Kiyahudi) anyemheshimu Yesu. Acha kupotosha. .....
Dini ya Kiyahudi (Judaism) iliyotokana na vitabu vya Tanakh, Talmud na Torah wenyewe wanadai imeendelea bila kukatika kwa muda wa miaka 3,500....vipi Ukristo wa miaka 2012 iliyopita uwe sehemu ya Uyahudi?
Hebu jaribu kwenda Israel na Biblia yako uhubiri kwenye barabara za Tel Aviv, au Haifa, au Jerusalem kama hawatakutemea mate! ...
Wowowo! Maneno mazito - mtaalamu mkubwa hapo, sivyo???
Basi sijui kama umewahi kusikia habari za Martin Buber (kama la -ninavyoogopa- nenda google ujielemishe)? Ameaga dunia lakini hadi leo anatazamiwa kama mwalimu mkubwa wa Uyahudi wa Kiashkenazi.

Basi:
The highly respected Jewish philosopher Martin Buber wrote:
From my youth onwards I have found in Jesus my great brother. That Christianity has regarded and does regard him as God and Savior has always appeared to me a fact of the highest importance which, for his sake and my own, I must endeavor to understand...I am more than ever certain that a great place belongs to him in Israel's history of faith and that this place cannot be described by any of the usual categories. [2]
​
In an interview, Albert Einstein observed:
As a child I received instruction both in the Bible and in the Talmud. I am a Jew, but I am enthralled by the luminous figure of the Nazarene...No one can read the Gospels without feeling the actual presence of Jesus. His personality pulsates in every word. No myth is filled with such life. [3]
​
One-time President of the Central Conference of American Rabbis, Hyman Enelow noted:
Who can compute all that Jesus has meant to humanity? The love he has inspired, the solace he has given, the good he has engendered, the hope and joy he has kindled-all that is unequalled in human history. [4]
​
The former president of Hebrew Union College, Rabbi Kaufman Kohler addressed Congress in 1893 in the following fashion:
No ethical system or religious catechism, however broad and pure, could equal the efficiency of this great personality, standing, unlike any other, midway between heaven and earth, equally near to God and to man...Jesus, the helper of the poor, the friend of the sinner, the brother of every fellow-sufferer, the comforter of every sorrow-laden, the healer of the sick, the up-lifter of the fallen, the lover of man, the redeemer of woman, won the heart of mankind by storm. Jesus, the meekest of men, the most despised of the despised race of the Jews, mounted the world's throne to be earth's Great King. [5]

​
chanzo: Jesus Through Jewish Eyes: A Rabbi Examines the Life and Teachings of Jesus

Nilivyosema, ni sehemu ya Wayahudu tu ilhali wengine hawamjali au kutojua. lakini hao wanaomheshimu kama MYahudi mwenzao mwenye maana si wachache tena wana sauti.
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Nadhani tunakwenda mbali bure: mimi ninazungumzia mainstream Jewish belief, wewe unazungumzia individulas na wengine ni philosophers. Kama Wayahudi wanampenda na kumheshimu Yesu kwa nini walimwua? Wale waliomwua waliwakilisha hisia za dini yao, hawakuwa wahalifu au muumiani (kama unajua maana ya neno hili) wamemwua kwa vile alikuwa tishio kwa dini yao. Leo wataka kuniambia wanampenda na kumheshimu? (Si contradiction ikiwa Myahudi binafsi anamheshimu).
Hebu fikiria hili: Katika maeneo yote muhimu Israel iliyoyateka na kukataa kuyatoa ni yale yenye historia ya Wayahudi na siyo yenye historia ya Wakristo. Ndiyo maana Israel wala haikuleta ubishi kulirudisha eneo la Bethlehem kwa Wapalestina. Kama kweli Waisraeli-Wayahudi- wangekuwa na hisia yeyote na Yesu, hili lingekuwa ni eneo ambalo wangedinda kabisa kulitoa!
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Sijali said:
Nadhani tunakwenda mbali bure: mimi ninazungumzia mainstream Jewish belief, wewe unazungumzia individulas na wengine ni philosophers.
Kama Wayahudi wanampenda na kumheshimu Yesu kwa nini walimwua?
Hebu fikiria hili: Katika maeneo yote muhimu Israel iliyoyateka na kukataa kuyatoa ni yale yenye historia ya Wayahudi na siyo yenye historia ya Wakristo. Ndiyo maana Israel wala haikuleta ubishi kulirudisha eneo la Bethlehem kwa Wapalestina. Kama kweli Waisraeli-Wayahudi- wangekuwa na hisia yeyote na Yesu, hili lingekuwa ni eneo ambalo wangedinda kabisa kulitoa!
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Kuuhusu nyekundu: Mpendwa jinsi unavyojibu sidhani ya kwamba una habari za kutosha kuhusu imani ya Kiyahudi na mikondo yake ili kutofautisha kati ya wale walio wengi, wachache, wenye maana na wasio na maana. Naona tuache, unapenda maoni yako, upende tu!

kihusu kibichi:
a) jaribu kujielimisha kihistoria. Si Wayahudi waliomwua Yesu bali Waroma (ponsio Pilato) - miaka 2000 iliyopita.
b) jaribu kuwaza kuna tofauti sana kati ya mawazo wa viongozi wa Kiyahudi miaka 2000 iliyopita (tena kutoka kundi la makuhani ambao waliopotea kabisa hawako tena) na mawazo yaliyopo sasa
c) jaribu kuwaza ya kwamba mahitaji ya siasa ya nchi ya Israeli si lilelile kama mawazo yako juu ya dini (Nazareti ni sehemu ya Israeli - hawataiacha kamwe... kwa sababu ya jiografia ya nchi yao!)
d) ukumbuke: kuna pia wakristo wengi wasiojali maana pa mahali pa kihistoria maana wanamwamini Yesu aliye hai rohoni kila mahali.
e) sitaki kujadili tena mawazo yako ya ajabu juu ya uyahudi lakini lan#bda ukumbuke nimeeleza hapo juu: kumheshimu Yesu ni jambo katika mikondo ya dini yao - lakini kwa seehmu ya wayahudi wote tu.
kama unapata kujisomea kuhusu tofauti kati ya mikondo ya uyahudi ndani na nje ya nchi ya Israeli leo utaelewa.
 
Kipala said:
Kuuhusu nyekundu: Mpendwa jinsi unavyojibu sidhani ya kwamba una habari za kutosha kuhusu imani ya Kiyahudi na mikondo yake ili kutofautisha kati ya wale walio wengi, wachache, wenye maana na wasio na maana. Naona tuache, unapenda maoni yako, upende tu!

kihusu kibichi:
a) jaribu kujielimisha kihistoria. Si Wayahudi waliomwua Yesu bali Waroma (ponsio Pilato) - miaka 2000 iliyopita.
b) jaribu kuwaza kuna tofauti sana kati ya mawazo wa viongozi wa Kiyahudi miaka 2000 iliyopita (tena kutoka kundi la makuhani ambao waliopotea kabisa hawako tena) na mawazo yaliyopo sasa

c) jaribu kuwaza ya kwamba mahitaji ya siasa ya nchi ya Israeli si lilelile kama mawazo yako juu ya dini (Nazareti ni sehemu ya Israeli - hawataiacha kamwe... kwa sababu ya jiografia ya nchi yao!)
d) ukumbuke: kuna pia wakristo wengi wasiojali maana pa mahali pa kihistoria maana wanamwamini Yesu aliye hai rohoni kila mahali.
e) sitaki kujadili tena mawazo yako ya ajabu juu ya uyahudi lakini lan#bda ukumbuke nimeeleza hapo juu: kumheshimu Yesu ni jambo katika mikondo ya dini yao - lakini kwa seehmu ya wayahudi wote tu.
kama unapata kujisomea kuhusu tofauti kati ya mikondo ya uyahudi ndani na nje ya nchi ya Israeli leo utaelewa.
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waroma kupitia pilato alinawa kikombe cha kifo cha yesu, sio?
 
Sijali said:
Kipala said:
Sijali said:
Hakuna Myahudi nimjuaye (hapa tukizungumzia mfuasi wa dini ya Kiyahudi) anyemheshimu Yesu. Acha kupotosha. .....
Dini ya Kiyahudi (Judaism) iliyotokana na vitabu vya Tanakh, Talmud na Torah wenyewe wanadai imeendelea bila kukatika kwa muda wa miaka 3,500....vipi Ukristo wa miaka 2012 iliyopita uwe sehemu ya Uyahudi?
Hebu jaribu kwenda Israel na Biblia yako uhubiri kwenye barabara za Tel Aviv, au Haifa, au Jerusalem kama hawatakutemea mate! ...

Nadhani tunakwenda mbali bure: mimi ninazungumzia mainstream Jewish belief, wewe unazungumzia individulas na wengine ni philosophers. Kama Wayahudi wanampenda na kumheshimu Yesu kwa nini walimwua? Wale waliomwua waliwakilisha hisia za dini yao, hawakuwa wahalifu au muumiani (kama unajua maana ya neno hili) wamemwua kwa vile alikuwa tishio kwa dini yao. Leo wataka kuniambia wanampenda na kumheshimu? (Si contradiction ikiwa Myahudi binafsi anamheshimu).
Hebu fikiria hili: Katika maeneo yote muhimu Israel iliyoyateka na kukataa kuyatoa ni yale yenye historia ya Wayahudi na siyo yenye historia ya Wakristo. Ndiyo maana Israel wala haikuleta ubishi kulirudisha eneo la Bethlehem kwa Wapalestina. Kama kweli Waisraeli-Wayahudi- wangekuwa na hisia yeyote na Yesu, hili lingekuwa ni eneo ambalo wangedinda kabisa kulitoa!
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nadhani angalisoma yeye hivi vitabu

1 .The Talmuds teachings concerning christians unmasked By Rev. I. B. Pranaitis

2.Excerpts from"Vom Schem Hamphoras und vom Geschlecht Christi,"[SIZE=+1]By Martin Luther;In [/SIZE][SIZE=+2]The Jew in Christian Theology,[/SIZE]
Gerhard Falk, McFarland and Company, Inc., Jefferson, NC and London, 1931:
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SoNotorious said:
samahani humo kuna aliyekuja na koran ingawa hakuwa anajua kusoma wala kuandika, hivi koran iliandikwa na nani ?
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umeelewa nani kaandika biblia au unakurupuka kubishana
are you serious to know or just playing the notorious games ????
 
BINARY NO said:
Kwani ISRAEL ni taifa?
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Inaonekana. Ukijadili dola la Israeli lililoundwa mwaka 1948 ni nchi mwanachama wa Umoja wa Mataifa hivyo ni taifa.

Swali la "Israeli" kwa maana ya Biblia heri tuache kando maana hatuko uwanja wa dini.
 
kwamwewe said:
umeelewa nani kaandika biblia au unakurupuka kubishana
are you serious to know or just playing the notorious games ????
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kama kuna koran ambayo iko katika maandishi wakati muhamad amefariki hajui kusoma wala kuandika na wewe hutaki kujisumbua kujua aliyeandika koran, sasa unanilaumu kitu gani kwa mimi kutojua aliyeandika bible? niambie koran aliandika nani? nani ali-proof read?
 
kwamwewe said:
NAKUWEKEA BOTH TWO BOOKS BY A CHRISTIAN AND A MUSLIM

1.How the Qur'an was Revealed & Compiled? - YouTube

2 History of the Bible (Full Documentary) - YouTube
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Huenda utakwa umedumaa kiakili hicho ulichoweka hapo ni mere self-pleasing opinions na conspirancy theories za watu ambao wamekuta biblia na koran zipo na zinatumika miaka elfu iliyopita. Kama una concrete evidence na facts zaidi ya huu usanii naomba uniletee. Naomba utegue hiki kitendawili, simulizi zinasema muhamad mwenye koran hakujua pen inashikwaje wala maandishi yana maanisha kitu gani, nani aliandika koran, ni lini iliandikwa ? nani ali-proof read ? Kama hutakuwa na ushahidi ambao ni independent mi nitakuona mjinga na mlevi wa dini unaeogopa kujihoji huku ukitaka wengine wajihoji.
Ukimaliza hapo naomba uthibitishe kuwa haya maneno ya kwenye koran muhamad aliambiwa na mungu na si shetani.
Pana tetesi kuwa uislam ni project catholic, sijui lengo la hiyo project fanya uchunguzi utakachogundua let me know, si unakumbuka kisa cha muhamad na padri.
 
SoNotorious said:
Huenda utakwa umedumaa kiakili hicho ulichoweka hapo ni mere self-pleasing opinions na conspirancy theories za watu ambao wamekuta biblia na koran zipo na zinatumika miaka elfu iliyopita. Kama una concrete evidence na facts zaidi ya huu usanii naomba uniletee. Naomba utegue hiki kitendawili, simulizi zinasema muhamad mwenye koran hakujua pen inashikwaje wala maandishi yana maanisha kitu gani, nani aliandika koran, ni lini iliandikwa ? nani ali-proof read ? Kama hutakuwa na ushahidi ambao ni independent mi nitakuona mjinga na mlevi wa dini unaeogopa kujihoji huku ukitaka wengine wajihoji.
Ukimaliza hapo naomba uthibitishe kuwa haya maneno ya kwenye koran muhamad aliambiwa na mungu na si shetani.
Pana tetesi kuwa uislam ni project catholic, sijui lengo la hiyo project fanya uchunguzi utakachogundua let me know, si unakumbuka kisa cha muhamad na padri.
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He he he heee! Hii thread imetokea huku? Kweli unaweza kuanza kitu lakini anayemalizia ni mwingine!
Bwana so notorious huenda anahitajia kuelimishwa hapa na sioni vibaya. Kutokana na historia na rubaa za Kiislamu, Quran iliandikwa miaka 17 hivi baada ya kufa bw Muhamad, zama za naibu wake wa tatu, Othman. Kabla ya hapo Qur'an ilikuwa inahafidhiwa katika mioyo na wengi wa wafuasi, zaidi ya 100 wakiihafidhi yote na waliobakia walikuwa wakihifadhi mafungu mafungu-nusu, robo, nk. Alipoona wafuasi wengi wanauawa katika vita, Othman, akahofia isije wengi wa wanaoihafidhi yote wakatoweka. Ndipo akawakusanya walioihafidhi yote na wale waliohifadhi mafungu na mwandishi akawa anaandika baada ya maafikiano ya wote. Baada ya kumaliza, zikatolewa nakala kadhaa kutokana na ile iliyokubalika kwa wote. Hizi zikatawanywa katika miji mikuu iliyokuwa chini ya dola la Kiislamu: Cairo, Kufa, Nahawand, Damascus etc. Ikaamuriwa kuwa hizo nakala zilizokubalika ndiyo ziwe hizo hizo tu zitakazosomwa na kuigwa.
Kwa upande huu utaona kuwa Qur'an, tofauti na Biblia, huenda ikawa more authentic (hapa nakusudia katika njia ilivyopokewa na kuhifadhiwa, si kwa imani, hiyo nakuachia mwenyewe).
Ama kuhusu Mtume Mohammed kujua kusoma au kutojua, kwa kweli hili ni jambo lenye tofauti baina ya Waislamu. Kwa vyovyote vile, wale wanaokubali dhana kwamba hakujua kusoma na kuandika ni kwa sababu moja tu: ili watu wasidhanie aliyokuja nayo ameyatunga na kuyaandika yeye. Otherwise, alikuwa anajua kilichoandikwa na kuna ushahidi mwingi juu ya hilo ukipekua vitabu.

N.b. Tofautisha kati ya ku hafidhi na kuhifadhi. Walio hafidhi ni kwa moyo, na waliohifadhi inawezekana kwa kuandika baadhi ya mafungu na aya. Si kweli kuwa hata baadhi ya vifungu na aya za Qur'ani hazikuwa zimeandikwa popote kabla ya Othman!
 
Sijali said:
He he he heee! Hii thread imetokea huku? Kweli unaweza kuanza kitu lakini anayemalizia ni mwingine!
Bwana so notorious huenda anahitajia kuelimishwa hapa na sioni vibaya. Kutokana na historia na rubaa za Kiislamu, Quran iliandikwa miaka 17 hivi baada ya kufa bw Muhamad, zama za naibu wake wa tatu, Othman. Kabla ya hapo Qur'an ilikuwa inahafidhiwa katika mioyo na wengi wa wafuasi, zaidi ya 100 wakiihafidhi yote na waliobakia walikuwa wakihifadhi mafungu mafungu-nusu, robo, nk. Alipoona wafuasi wengi wanauawa katika vita, Othman, akahofia isije wengi wa wanaoihafidhi yote wakatoweka. Ndipo akawakusanya walioihafidhi yote na wale waliohifadhi mafungu na mwandishi akawa anaandika baada ya maafikiano ya wote. Baada ya kumaliza, zikatolewa nakala kadhaa kutokana na ile iliyokubalika kwa wote. Hizi zikatawanywa katika miji mikuu iliyokuwa chini ya dola la Kiislamu: Cairo, Kufa, Nahawand, Damascus etc. Ikaamuriwa kuwa hizo nakala zilizokubalika ndiyo ziwe hizo hizo tu zitakazosomwa na kuigwa.
Kwa upande huu utaona kuwa Qur'an, tofauti na Biblia, huenda ikawa more authentic (hapa nakusudia katika njia ilivyopokewa na kuhifadhiwa, si kwa imani, hiyo nakuachia mwenyewe).
Ama kuhusu Mtume Mohammed kujua kusoma au kutojua, kwa kweli hili ni jambo lenye tofauti baina ya Waislamu. Kwa vyovyote vile, wale wanaokubali dhana kwamba hakujua kusoma na kuandika ni kwa sababu moja tu: ili watu wasidhanie aliyokuja nayo ameyatunga na kuyaandika yeye. Otherwise, alikuwa anajua kilichoandikwa na kuna ushahidi mwingi juu ya hilo ukipekua vitabu.

N.b. Tofautisha kati ya ku hafidhi na kuhifadhi. Walio hafidhi ni kwa moyo, na waliohifadhi inawezekana kwa kuandika baadhi ya mafungu na aya. Si kweli kuwa hata baadhi ya vifungu na aya za Qur'ani hazikuwa zimeandikwa popote kabla ya Othman!
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Mkuu Sijali, hapo kwenye uandishi nimekusoma, ila naona kuna mambo umeandika bila kushirikisha ubongo wako kidogo, mosi unasema koran iliandikwa miaka kumi na saba baada ya kufa muhamad nani alithibitisha kuwa kilichoandikwa ni sahihi? the only ultimate authority alikuwa marehemu muhamad, lakini unasema pamoja na kutokujua kusoma alikuwa anajua kilichoandikwa hiki ni kitendawili nacho inabidi ukitegue, pili unasema muhamad kutokujua kusoma wala kuandika kuna tofauti baina ya waislamu, tofauti inatokea wapi wakati koran inasema tumemleta kwenu asiyejua kusoma na kuandika au kuna koran ngapi mkuu? tatu unasema hakutakiwa kujua kusoma na kuandika ili watu wasiseme hayo maneno kayatunga mwenyewe, hii ni hoja ya kitoto, kweli kabisa na wewe unaamini kuwa asiyejua kusoma wala kuandika hawezi kutunga na kusema uongo? its a milky pre-emptive sentiment.
 
kwamwewe said:
Hao wakristo hukuwaona??? au ndio ushahidi wao ni independent??

Hukuangalia kitu lau ungaliangalia usingalikuja na huu utumbo
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Hukunielewa mkuu mimi sijaegemea upande wowote nimesema hao walioandaa hayo masimulizi wote ni watoto wa juzi wanayotoa ni maoni yao ya kufurahisha nyoyo zao na kuimarisha imani zao, usigeuze maoni ya mtu kuwa ukweli tafuta ukweli wewe mwenyewe, ndo maana ya kuwa na ubongo mkuu. siku ya hukumu huwezi kujitetea na clip za youtube. naomba urudie kusoma nilichoandika halafu unijibu maswali yangu kwa upole.
 
kwamwewe said:
wewe ni mtu uliyedumaa kiakili zaidi. Hivi ulitaka hao watu walioishi miaka zaidi ya 2000 iliyopita wafufuke wakupe wewe ushahidi ???

hizo critics zako kuna wengi wamezitoa tokea hapo zamani na qurani ni ileile isipokuwa biblia ndiyo inabadilishwa kila siku

kukuweka sawa sikiliza huu mdahalo upate kuelimika zaidi

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I think the perfect preservation of quran need not to be evidenced by any debate but the reality on the ground, number one muhamad the author of the verbal quranic version knows nothing about the written quranic version this makes the perfection of the written one void and null, it is not only because he was the illiterate at his best but he was long dead when othman decided to put the verbal one in writing, number two if at all the verbal and written one is perfectly preserved why do you have the salafist, suni, shia, sufi, ahmadiya, the list is endless.
You need to have independent mind otherwise you will be weak and subordinated forever, a headless follower.
 
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