Hii ndio Kenya kwa Tanzania

[HUGO CHAVES]

bado sijakuelewa hadi ufute kauli hiyo ndio nitachangia hoja yako

 

[GreenCity]

"Muache" unawaambia kina nani?

Wengine hatuamini katika government protectionism getting in the way of free trade, usimlundike kila Mtanzania katika kundi moja.

Na kusema kwamba investment from Kenya in principle does not infer superiority on the part of Kenyans does not imply that Tanzania collects taxes, which negates and moots the whole argument "basi msilie na budget". Again, usilundike kila Mtanzania kwenye kikapu kimoja bila justification.

You obviously did not get the point kwamba hata bila ya kuwa na data za Tanzania kuwekeza nchi nyingine, fact kwamba Kenya inawekeza Tanzania haiipi superiority Kenya, as a matter of fact Tanzanians in principle could claim to benefit from the investments.

Jaribu tena kuargue your case more convincingly, with data.

Then labda utajenga uhalali wa kutaka mtu kukujibu kwa data.

Hatutaki simplistic arguments. Watu wakiwekeza kwako hiyo ni disadvantage kivipi?

Are you failing to articulate what you really want to say?

unapokaribisha investments toka nje, inamaana umeshindwa ku afford mradi husika, and no doubt, unataraji kufaidika zaidi!
Is this what we are getting from investors wakigeni?

 

[Kiranga]

unapokaribisha investments toka nje, inamaana umeshindwa ku afford mradi husika, and no doubt, unataraji kufaidika zaidi!
Is this what we are getting from investors wakigeni?

Hapana,

Si kweli kwamba unapokaribisha investment kutoka nje ni lazima umeshindwa ku afford mradi husika. Ingekuwa hivyo nchi tajiri zisingehitaji investors kutoka nje yazo.

Inaelekea - at the risk of sounding rather Menckenian, but first principles first- hujamsoma Adam Smith katika "The Wealth of Nations" (particularly Volume 2, Book 4 Chapter 3) akielezea mambo ya msingi kabisa ya chumi za nchi. Despite the dated approches that might sometimes come as too "dog-eat-dog" on the whole, the book serves well to elucidate the concept of "competitive advantage". A basic economic concept. Tunapoajiri mtu wa kusimamia nyumba ijengwe haina maana kwamba hatuwezi kusimamia wenyewe, labda inaweza kuwa kwa sababu muda wetu unaweza kutumika kupata makubwa zaidi ya ujira tutakaomlipa msimamizi huyu.

Inawezekana kabisa ukakaribisha investment kutoka nje, sio kwa sababu umeshindwa ku afford mradi husika, bali kwa sababu haitakupa "competitive advantage" ku invest mwenyewe na economic interests zako zitakuwa better served kama mwingine mwenye "competitive advantage" atakuja ku invest na wewe utakula cha juu.

I am not saying that what the Tanzanians are doing is right.

I am just saying that revise the simplistic approaches and come correct.

 

[Hukumuzuku]

Hapana,

Si kweli kwamba unapokaribisha investment kutoka nje ni lazima umeshindwa ku afford mradi husika. Ingekuwa hivyo nchi tajiri zisingehitaji investors kutoka nje yazo.

Inaelekea - at the risk of sounding rather Menckenian, but first principles first- hujamsoma Adam Smith katika "The Wealth of Nations" (particularly Volume 2, Book 4 Chapter 3) akielezea mambo ya msingi kabisa ya chumi za nchi. Despite the dated approches that might sometimes come as too "dog-eat-dog" on the whole, the book serves well to elucidate the concept of "competitive advantage". A basic economic concept. Tunapoajiri mtu wa kusimamia nyumba ijengwe haina maana kwamba hatuwezi kusimamia wenyewe, labda inaweza kuwa kwa sababu muda wetu unaweza kutumika kupata makubwa zaidi ya ujira tutakaomlipa msimamizi huyu.

Inawezekana kabisa ukakaribisha investment kutoka nje, sio kwa sababu umeshindwa ku afford mradi husika, bali kwa sababu haitakupa "competitive advantage" ku invest mwenyewe na economic interests zako zitakuwa better served kama mwingine mwenye "competitive advantage" atakuja ku invest na wewe utakula cha juu.

Tunaomba utupatie mfano hai wa hoja yako hapo juu ambao unaendana na mazingira ya Tanzania kiuwekezaji na kiuchumi hivi leo.

I am not saying that what the Tanzanians are doing is right.

I am just saying that revise the simplistic approaches and come correct.

Please expound as far as meanings implied in following phrase: "revising" so-called "simplistic approaches" and "come correct".

 

[Kiranga]

Hapana,

Si kweli kwamba unapokaribisha investment kutoka nje ni lazima umeshindwa ku afford mradi husika. Ingekuwa hivyo nchi tajiri zisingehitaji investors kutoka nje yazo.

Inaelekea - at the risk of sounding rather Menckenian, but first principles first- hujamsoma Adam Smith katika "The Wealth of Nations" (particularly Volume 2, Book 4 Chapter 3) akielezea mambo ya msingi kabisa ya chumi za nchi. Despite the dated approches that might sometimes come as too "dog-eat-dog" on the whole, the book serves well to elucidate the concept of "competitive advantage". A basic economic concept. Tunapoajiri mtu wa kusimamia nyumba ijengwe haina maana kwamba hatuwezi kusimamia wenyewe, labda inaweza kuwa kwa sababu muda wetu unaweza kutumika kupata makubwa zaidi ya ujira tutakaomlipa msimamizi huyu.

Tunaomba utupatie mfano hai wa hoja yako hapo juu ambao unaendana na mazingira ya Tanzania kiuwekezaji na kiuchumi hivi leo.

Mfano umepewa hapo juu, the first principle adhered to here is "competitive advantage".

Please expound as far as meanings implied in following phrase: "revising" so-called "simplistic approaches" and "come correct".

Simplistic approach hapa ni kwamba nchi yako wakija wageni kuwekeza wewe f.ala umeshindwa kuwekeza.

Come correct maana yake, kuna mengi ya kuisema Tanzania. Unaweza kuisema Tanzania - Watanzania wenye decision making power- kwa sababu haikusanyi kodi, hai negotiate mikataba vizuri, inajali rushwa za kijinga, inakubali kila fundi kiatu wa nje kujiita muwekezaji etc. Kwa hiyo definitely sisemi kwamba Watanzania wako impeccable.

Lakini kuwalaumu Watanzania kiujumla jumla kwa sababu Wakenya wanakuja kuwekeza Tanzania ni kutoelewa basic concepts za uchumi ambazo zinafanya kila nchi itafute wawekezaji wa nje kuja kuwekeza kwake.

 

[Hukumuzuku]

Mfano umepewa hapo juu, the first principle adhered to here is "competitive advantage".

Haitoshi kutaja nadharia kwa maana ya "principle" fulani tuu, naomba utupatie mfano hai wa jinsi hiyo "principle' yako inavyokendana na mazingira yaliyopo hivi leo Tanzania.

Simplistic approach hapa ni kwamba nchi yako wakija wageni kuwekeza wewe f.ala umeshindwa kuwekeza.

Come correct maana yake, kuna mengi ya kuisema Tanzania. Unaweza kuisema Tanzania - Watanzania wenye decision making power- kwa sababu haikusanyi kodi, hai negotiate mikataba vizuri, inajali rushwa za kijinga, inakubali kila fundi kiatu wa nje kujiita muwekezaji etc. Kwa hiyo definitely sisemi kwamba Watanzania wako impeccable.

Lakini kuwalaumu Watanzania kiujumla jumla kwa sababu Wakenya wanakuja kuwekeza Tanzania ni kutoelewa basic concepts za uchumi ambazo zinafanya kila nchi itafute wawekezaji wa nje kuja kuwekeza kwake

Itakuwa si vibaya ukatupa somo la jinsi Wakenya walivyokabili hizo dhana zako za "simplistic approaches" na "coming correct" ili na sisi tuweze jifunza. Jee, huko Kenya hakuna hizo "simplistic approaches" na "come correct"?

 

[Kiranga]

Kusema kwamba Kenya hakuna (au Wakenya wamekabili) "simplistic approaches" kwenyewe kutakuwa ni simplistic approach.

Kusema kwamba Wakenya wana "come correct" kutakuwa laughable.

Ninachoweza kusema tu ni kwamba Wakenya wametupiga bao kwa kuwa na vyuo vya elimu ya juu vingi kwa miaka mingi zaidi, hivyo wametoa graduates wengi walioingia mtaani bila deal, ikawabidi wachemshe vichwa.

Ukichanganya na ukweli kwamba hawajapitia social experiment ya ujamaa iliyotubwetesha kutegemea sana serikali, na Kenyatta na wezi wenzake walishagawana nchi mwanzo kabisa wakawafungia wenzao kwenye Bantustan-like homelands huko na ghettos/ slums reminiscent of - and oftentimes worse than- occupied Warsaw. Kwa kiasi fulani wametia akili na wanajua cutthroat competition kibiashara kwa kiasi chao ukiwalinganisha na wabongo wa kawaida. Halafu wanajua "kumtumikia kafiri" kwa vile hawana "umasikini jeuri" uliopaliliwa na ujamaa na neema ya ardhi miongoni mwetu watanzania.


Mie nashangaa hii incoherence iliyo bordeline xenophobic inayosema kwamba watu wa nje kuja kuwekeza nchini mwenu ni kitu kibaya, surely katika ulimwengu huu wa utandawazi na nchi kutafuta investors tunatakiwa kutaka watu wa nje waje kuwekeza kwetu ili rasilimali zetu - kwa mfano ardhi isiyotumika- zisikae bure.

Kama kuna maswali yawe mengine. Je, Watanzania wako wapi katika uwekezaji huu? Imefikafikaje mpaka wageni wakaja kuwekeza? Ni kwa sababu Watanzania wanaona a competitive advantage itapatikana kwa kuwaachia wageni - hawana mitaji na ujuzi na kuachia rasilimali zikae bure watakosa hata rent na kodi bora wachukue kidogo hicho wakati wanajikusanya, after all land is commonly entrusted to the president on behalf of the people and any holder is just renting it essentially for example- au vipi? Kuna athari gani kuwaruhusu wageni kuwekeza kiholela etc.

I am not seeing a nuanced and pointed argument ya kumfanya mtu awadharau Watanzania kutokana na investments za Wakenya Tanzania (ingawa hili halimaanishi kwamba arguments hizi hazipo)

Ninachoona ni nothing far above common xenophobia. Watanzania mnaruhusu Wakenya wawekeze nchini mwenu wajinga, masikini etc.

Na sie Watanzania tuliowekeza Marekani ina maana Wamarekani nao ni wajinga sana na masikini sana kuliko sie Watanzania?

Hii ndiyo hiyo simplistic approach ninayoikataa. When you want to make an argument that Tanzanians are slacking, come correct, onyesha wapi.Sio kusema tu Wakenya wanawekeza Tanzania therefore Watanzania wame slack.

 

[Hukumuzuku]

Kusema kwamba Kenya hakuna (au Wakenya wamekabili) "simplistic approaches" kwenyewe kutakuwa ni simplistic approach.

Kusema kwamba Wakenya wana "come correct" kutakuwa laughable.

Ninachoweza kusema tu ni kwamba Wakenya wametupiga bao kwa kuwa na vyuo vya elimu ya juu vingi kwa miaka mingi zaidi, hivyo wametoa graduates wengi walioingia mtaani bila deal, ikawabidi wachemshe vichwa.

Ukichanganya na ukweli kwamba hawajapitia social experiment ya ujamaa iliyotubwetesha kutegemea sana serikali, na Kenyatta na wezi wenzake walishagawana nchi mwanzo kabisa wakawafungia wenzao kwenye Bantustan-like homelands huko na ghettos/ slums reminiscent of - and oftentimes worse than- occupied Warsaw. Kwa kiasi fulani wametia akili na wanajua cutthroat competition kibiashara kwa kiasi chao ukiwalinganisha na wabongo wa kawaida. Halafu wanajua "kumtumikia kafiri" kwa vile hawana "umasikini jeuri" uliopaliliwa na ujamaa na neema ya ardhi miongoni mwetu watanzania.


Mie nashangaa hii incoherence iliyo bordeline xenophobic inayosema kwamba watu wa nje kuja kuwekeza nchini mwenu ni kitu kibaya, surely katika ulimwengu huu wa utandawazi na nchi kutafuta investors tunatakiwa kutaka watu wa nje waje kuwekeza kwetu ili rasilimali zetu - kwa mfano ardhi isiyotumika- zisikae bure.

Kama kuna maswali yawe mengine. Je, Watanzania wako wapi katika uwekezaji huu? Imefikafikaje mpaka wageni wakaja kuwekeza? Ni kwa sababu Watanzania wanaona a competitive advantage itapatikana kwa kuwaachia wageni - hawana mitaji na ujuzi na kuachia rasilimali zikae bure watakosa hata rent na kodi bora wachukue kidogo hicho wakati wanajikusanya, after all land is commonly entrusted to the president on behalf of the people and any holder is just renting it essentially for example- au vipi? Kuna athari gani kuwaruhusu wageni kuwekeza kiholela etc.

I am not seeing a nuanced and pointed argument ya kumfanya mtu awadharau Watanzania kutokana na investments za Wakenya Tanzania (ingawa hili halimaanishi kwamba arguments hizi hazipo)

Ninachoona ni nothing far above common xenophobia. Watanzania mnaruhusu Wakenya wawekeze nchini mwenu wajinga, masikini etc.

Na sie Watanzania tuliowekeza Marekani ina maana Wamarekani nao ni wajinga sana na masikini sana kuliko sie Watanzania?

Hii ndiyo hiyo simplistic approach ninayoikataa. When you want to make an argument that Tanzanians are slacking, come correct, onyesha wapi.Sio kusema tu Wakenya wanawekeza Tanzania therefore Watanzania wame slack.

You're surely entitled to your opinions, dude. Lakini nadharia zako zinabaki kuwa nadharia tuu.

Jee umejaribu kulinganisha nadharia zako za uchumi kuhusu Kenya hivi leo ukilinganisha na nchi kama Angola na Mozambique, ambazo nazo zilikuwa na mfumo wa socialist enzi zile baada ya uhuru?

 

[Kiranga]

You're surely entitled to your opinions, dude. Lakini nadharia zako zinabaki kuwa nadharia tuu.

Nadharia zangu kuhusu nini? Hujakamilisha kitu hapa. Mie sijakuwa mwanazuoni kiasi cha kuwa na "nadharia zangu".

Jee umejaribu kulinganisha nadharia zako za uchumi kuhusu Kenya hivi leo ukilinganisha na nchi kama Angola na Mozambique, ambazo nazo zilikuwa na mfumo wa socialist enzi zile baada ya uhuru?

Nadharia zangu za uchumi kuhusu Kenya kwa mtazamo gani? landholding? entrepreneurship? fiscal policy? foreign investment? petrodollar prospects?

Tunarudi pale pale. Exactitude.

 

[bagamoyo]

Investment from Kenya to Tanzania

Banking sector

KCB Tanzania total assets in Tanzania = Kshs. 145BN
Total Kshs. 145BN

Tanzanian Banks
CRDB total assets = Kshs . 145 BN
NMB total assets = Kshs. 145 BN
NBC total assets = Kshs. 380 BN
total Kshs. 730BN

Percentage of Kenya Commercial Bank stake ina Tanzania is 145/730 X 100= 19.86 = approx 20%
KCB has eleven branches in Tanzania

Kenya cant cause us (Tanzanians) to have 'a brown trouser alert' , Kenyans like to exaggerate things ...... bragging..... but the reality is far from the truth

Sources:
KCB Tanzania - Asset Based Finance
CRDB Bank PLC
Welcome to NMB
National Bank of Commerce - Conveniently Everywhere