Fast Tracking EAC Political Federation - a Liability?

[Lole Gwakisa]

Hi,

I introduced myself already as a Ugandan opposition activist in the Introduction Forum. I could not resist jumping in here. Forgive me if my arguments are very simplistic, am not a subject matter expert, just a hyper political observer/commentator focusing on Uganda. One thing apparent from this thread is the lack of trust of the motives for the Federation and perhaps that may be because we really do not know the motives. What is the overriding motive that has caused a sense of urgency for an East African political union? That motive is certainly top-down since I have not heard any clamour at the grassroots (at least not in Uganda) for a political federation for East Africa. So who is rushing the political federation and why?

An East African native wants to attend market day on either side of the border without a hassle. Do we need a political union for that? Maybe. It would take away the need for a visa and may be there would be less obstacles in building roads and bridges, movement would be easier, markets would be more accessible. So why don't we go ahead and do it - fast?

Look at the main proponents for the rushed political Union and be VERY afraid. We may have a common colonial culture, even common cultures that pre date colonialism, we certainly have a common interest in reaping from economies of scale but we also have very distinct post colonial POLITICAL cultures. I can understand the rush for a stronger economic union but I would be extremely cautious about rushing a political union that brings together a budding Tanzanian democracy, shaky Kenyan democracy and outright Ugandan dictatorship.

But then again, am a Ugandan opposition activist so I may be biased... If I cannot trust Museveni's administration to lead Uganda into the future I certainly would not endorse it to lead discussion of an East African political union any day. Take time to reflect on whether you can deal with opening up to our corruption, nepotism, militarism, without tough preconditions.

I would certainly stand with those who err of the side of caution.

Anne Mugisha

Anne , yours is a very fresh breath of guinine political wind from Uganda .I love frank people and ideas.
You have nailed the feeling at least from Tz

 

[Anne Mugisha]

Anne,

lemmie take this opportunity to officially welcome you to
JF -International Forum, where your ideas are most welcome.
Feel at home as you engage in a discourse with folks about the
merits and the demerits of the EAC/EAF.

Regards.

Ab-Titchaz and Lole thanks for the warm welcome and I hope that we can engage in constructive discussions for a strong East African Community one that is welcomed and understood by the people and not imposed by the leaders.

Asante sana.

 

[Nangetwa]

I have closely monitored all the discussion here about EAC Common Market issue and I wonder why some of us (read Kenyan) don't seem to be able to understand the reason or motive behind Tanzania objection to the thorny issues of land, immigration and the like. lets not assume that because EU countries successful resolved those issues, there is no problem there. surely we cannot compare us with EU.

We need to pole pole analyze issues before making conclusion. we would wish a thorough evaluation of Tanzania stance and ask ourselves, are Tanzanian so ignorant that they cannot understand the importances of the COmmon Market or we are overshadowed with our own political and economically ambitions to support the Common Market. we need to come to our senses and sees that there is a merit on Tanzania objection.

I support the view that why fast tracking the issue? is there a hidden agenda on all these? do we have a reverse gear if things go wrong?

 

[Kikojozi]

Why don't Rwanda, Burundi, Uganda and Kenya go ahead and form a political union if they feel Tanzania is dragging its feet? If they do so, they can have a head start in enjoying the benefits of the EAC and soon enough Tanzania will see sense and join in thus accomplishing the ultimate goal.

If the other four members cannot go ahead with the EAC just because Tanzania is stalling, this will re-enforce the fear that the EAC is all about rushing to gobble up Tanzania's resources.

So, go on lads. Go ahead without us for the moment.

 

[Lole Gwakisa]

Why don't Rwanda, Burundi, Uganda and Kenya go ahead and form a political union if they feel Tanzania is dragging its feet? If they do so, they can have a head start in enjoying the benefits of the EAC and soon enough Tanzania will see sense and join in thus accomplishing the ultimate goal.

If the other four members cannot go ahead with the EAC just because Tanzania is stalling, this will re-enforce the fear that the EAC is all about rushing to gobble up Tanzania's resources.

So, go on lads. Go ahead without us for the moment.

As Anne Mugisha put it aptly, Tanzanians do welcome EAC cooperation but NOT in its present form.
I dont see why it should be Fast Tracked and one might ask, to whos benefit?.
Today there is a conflict on land betwen Uganda and Kenya(Migingo Island)
Today Kenya is unstable politically-the political bickering between the President and the Prime Minister
Today Uganda is lukewarm politically though Museveni gives me the creeps!
Like Anne suggested earlier lets get the common services going first.Political Unions are a very tricky business.

 

[Nibo]

Personally I don't favor the so called EAC animal. It's better for Tanzania to step aside and let the rest 4 counrties (, Uganda, Rwanda & Burundi)Kenya rush in the so called EAC.

I also don't agree with the notion that We Tanzanians are poor compared to other countries in EAC. Tanzania as a country might be poor...but Tanzanians are not poor which is the opposite with Kenya..where the economy is in hands of minority....with the majority of the Kenyans dwelling in slums and feeding themselves from the municipal dumpsites (what a shame).

Let those who are in a hurry carry on with the EAC.....Tanzania can join in our convenient time....we don't have to be pushed around....

 

[MwanaFalsafa1]

Have you people noticed? When we say they should first form a federation themselves they don't answer. When we say why they want to rush Tanzania into the federation they don't answer. When they insult as and say we are poor & uneducated and we ask them then why are you forcing as to join they don't answer. They have no answer to the questions besides just complaining why Tanzania doesn't join which means they themselves have no answer to the questions. If they have no answer to these basic questions it means they don't question the decissions & motives of their leaders bali wanafuata tu wanacho ambiwa na mwisho huleta ushabiki wa kinchi.

We have the right to ask questions & if they have no answer then something after just considering the benefits without questioning the possible consequences.Why should we join. Kenyans answer these questions. Instead of just talking about the benefits why don't they want to talk about the possible negatives?

Only a fool does things after only considering the benefits without considering the consequences.

 

[Smatta]

Personally I don't favor the so called EAC animal. It's better for Tanzania to step aside and let the rest 4 counrties (, Uganda, Rwanda & Burundi)Kenya rush in the so called EAC.

I also don't agree with the notion that We Tanzanians are poor compared to other countries in EAC. Tanzania as a country might be poor...but Tanzanians are not poor which is the opposite with Kenya..where the economy is in hands of minority....with the majority of the Kenyans dwelling in slums and feeding themselves from the municipal dumpsites (what a shame).

Let those who are in a hurry carry on with the EAC.....Tanzania can join in our convenient time....we don't have to be pushed around....

Nibo, you guys are poor, what part of poverty dont you understand. Just because we in Kenya have unequal distribution of wealth, doesnt make you any better.
Stop burying your head in the sand and face the facts.. Look at the donor funding in your budget, its embarrassing, a whooping 70%, maybe more, and then you are insinuating that you are in a way better than us, shameful.

Sometimes you act like there are no slums in Tanzania, bro, zipo and they are not in a better state than our Kibera.. we currently have housing upgrading programmes which is trying to eradicate the slums, while you are pointing fingers at Kibera, you tend to forget about your slums, which nobody is trying to address the issue of upgrading them to descent housing.

STOP LIVING A LIE

 

[Ben Saanane]

Nibo, you guys are poor, what part of poverty dont you understand. Just because we in Kenya have unequal distribution of wealth, doesnt make you any better.
Stop burying your head in the sand and face the facts.. Look at the donor funding in your budget, its embarrassing, a whooping 70%, maybe more, and then you are insinuating that you are in a way better than us, shameful.

Sometimes you act like there are no slums in Tanzania, bro, zipo and they are not in a better state than our Kibera.. we currently have housing upgrading programmes which is trying to eradicate the slums, while you are pointing fingers at Kibera, you tend to forget about your slums, which nobody is trying to address the issue of upgrading them to descent housing.

STOP LIVING A LIE

You are just out of Touch!

 

[Ben Saanane]

Ab-Titchaz and Lole thanks for the warm welcome and I hope that we can engage in constructive discussions for a strong East African Community one that is welcomed and understood by the people and not imposed by the leaders.

Asante sana.

Anne,

You are warmly welcome. You can be a very good agent of Change in this Region.

 

[Namtih58]

Have you people noticed? When we say they should first form a federation themselves they don't answer. When we say why they want to rush Tanzania into the federation they don't answer. When they insult as and say we are poor & uneducated and we ask them then why are you forcing as to join they don't answer. They have no answer to the questions besides just complaining why Tanzania doesn't join which means they themselves have no answer to the questions. If they have no answer to these basic questions it means they don't question the decissions & motives of their leaders bali wanafuata tu wanacho ambiwa na mwisho huleta ushabiki wa kinchi.

In as much as I dont agree with fast tracking the EAC Political Federation, infact I dont agree with the formation of the EAC Political Federation and will not agree with it as long as the current caliber of leaders in power are involved in any way form or manner or even kizazi chao(sibagui naconsider conflict of interest), I have to say maybe the question should be inverted.

Why, if Tanzania sees no gain in partnering under the current conditions, does it not withdraw its membership in full or in part-become an observing member with intent or something of that sort.
That would allow those who feel miba imewazidi wakimbilie Makubanzi. While others chose to walk carefully.

Si hata katiba za Co-op zina allow mtu ku attend meetings kwanza to observe and gauge the organisation before jumping on the band wagon.

 

[MwanaFalsafa1]

In as much as I dont agree with fast tracking the EAC Political Federation, infact I dont agree with the formation of the EAC Political Federation and will not agree with it as long as the current caliber of leaders in power are involved in any way form or manner or even kizazi chao(sibagui naconsider conflict of interest), I have to say maybe the question should be inverted.

Why, if Tanzania sees no gain in partnering under the current conditions, does it not withdraw its membership in full or in part-become an observing member with intent or something of that sort.
That would allow those who feel miba imewazidi wakimbilie Makubanzi. While others chose to walk carefully.

Si hata katiba za Co-op zina allow mtu ku attend meetings kwanza to observe and gauge the organisation before jumping on the band wagon.

Good answer but what we are against fast tracking is the EAF. There is a difference between EAC and EAF. For example, if the majority of the AU countries decided to join does it mean the other members should leave the AU. The issue here is the federation not membership of the EAC. Lakini I agree with you. maybe Tz we should step back & let the others go foward, thats what some members here hv suggested by saying let the other states form a federation first if you have read all posts.

 

[Bluray]

Kama tuna matatizo na Zanzibar visiwa vidogo tu kwa ninin tunataka kujiingiza katika miungano mingine?

 

[Namtih58]

There is a difference between EAC and EAF

I do understand there is a difference and that is why I said EAC Political Federation

if the majority of the AU countries decided to join does it mean the other members should leave the AU

Did not quite understand this one, if you may, please elaborate.

some members here hv suggested by saying let the other states form a federation first if you have read all posts.

If I am not mistaken and nielimishe if I am wrong on this but katiba ya EAC hivi sasa requires that, for anything to passed the member states nust be unanimous in their decision.
Which means as long as TZ is a member, and in disagreement, nothing will pass.

Personally I believe that it is wrong for them to require a blanket harmonization of laws. What In my view should be harmonized are the overarching laws that ensure
A fair playing ground for all parties.
Guarantee and safeguard personal rights and freedoms.
Enforce fair application of all relevant laws in the whole community.

The rest should be decided by the people in the region involved.

 

[LaVerite]

Miopic thinking and empty rhetoric. You can Reject the idea of a federation, but you cant bluntly dismiss a people, it shows what you have between your ears, probably a vaccum.

Like I have always said in my posts about this federation, its not about you, its about the big boys with the big money. you will just scream your self hoarse, but as history has proven, even an army cant stop an idea whose time has come.

You can procrastinate and delay the whole process, but the time will come when some of your leaders(through convincing, threatening or bribing), will take line, hook, bait and sinker, and make you join your worst nightmare, and you will simply do nothing about it. This is the real world, people will do anything to achieve what they want.Guess you will have to go get your degree or masters, because a high school certificate wont be worth much in the job market in the near future.

Smatta your argument shows you also have nothing within your ears despite an ability to use english language correctly in expressing your nonsense. This is not uncommon to kenyans. They hide behind the english language. If what you have explained above was true federations of one sort or the other would have been common place throughout this globe. Your implying that the people with money 'exploiters' (are these kenyans???' can have their way despite the rhetoric resistance of the poor (Tanzanians??). But you have forgotten that the real exploiters (people with real money) do not need any kind of integration to exploit the poor countries like Tanzania and kenya. Kenya has been fucked (exploitated) inside out by imperialists since the colonial era leaving millions of people dirty poor and landless. Those people with big money did not need the EAC (which collapsed in 1977) to https://jamii.app/JFUserGuide kenya bare. And they are there to stay. What have kenyans benefitd from the so called foreign investments save for the ruling elite who accomplices.

 

[LaVerite]

Miopic thinking and empty rhetoric. You can Reject the idea of a federation, but you cant bluntly dismiss a people, it shows what you have between your ears, probably a vaccum.

Like I have always said in my posts about this federation, its not about you, its about the big boys with the big money. you will just scream your self hoarse, but as history has proven, even an army cant stop an idea whose time has come.

You can procrastinate and delay the whole process, but the time will come when some of your leaders(through convincing, threatening or bribing), will take line, hook, bait and sinker, and make you join your worst nightmare, and you will simply do nothing about it. This is the real world, people will do anything to achieve what they want.Guess you will have to go get your degree or masters, because a high school certificate wont be worth much in the job market in the near future.

You sound just all them kenyans that you are. Kenyans are so bitter with and dislike the Tanzania's prudent, careful, gradual intergration aproach because survivial issues. For kenyans the opening of Tanzania's borders for them is the matter of life and death. kenya is a time bomb. kenya is now total chaos an crisis. no jobs (they fundy thing for an econmic powerhouse. there is no economic powerhouse in the world, except kenya, whose economy is incapable of creating emplyments). the kenyan crisis was better reflected by the PEV of January 2008. And that that was just the trailer. That nation is on the brink of collapse in an unprecedented manner that somalia will seem like the haven of peace. And kenyans know this. and they are very afraid. but where to go. Uganda, no. Somalia, no. Sudan, Ethiopia, no. Tanzania with its peace, stability, resources, hospitable people etc is a more than perfect refuge. so kenyans exodus to Tz, which would be further facilitated by the integration is almost instictive, the same way that a person who is terrified by something would react by running away (flight). It is pure animal instincts. (unfortunately kenyans behaviours are of pure animal type. they bahave like hyneas). Try to stop a person scared by a lion and in top flight from entering your house. he would rather kill you than be eaten by a lion. but kenyans should know that their provoking attitudes when they seek refuge in Tanzania will not serve any purpose. It will just wake up the dumbest person in the country to stand up against these shamefu invaders. when you seek refuge you should at least have the audacity to respect your hosts.

 

[LaVerite]

Tanzanians, Do you really know what you are refusing, is there a specific reason for you to refuse this federation with soo much zeal? Is your reasons for refusing based from prior experiences in the federation? and if so, do you know that there has been lots of discussions and amendments to prevent what led to the collapse of the previous EAC. Are there leaders in your country who are feeding the citizenry with propaganda on the EAC issue, for it looks like there are people who tell you only the negative side and totally ignoring the positive effects of the federation.

Do you think the federation will be a threat to your land, jobs, freedom or peace? Can your phobia be because of the fear of the unknown, not knowing what will happen when enterpreneurs from other EA countries set camp in your conservative nation?

Can someone please answer this or tell me the main reason why you oppose the federation, because I cant believe that the EAC is specifically designed to reap Tanzanians off. someone please clear the air on this issue, tafadhali.

In essence the EAC intergration is all about opening Tanzania's borders. The economic realities of indegenous east africans in terms of ownership of industries is negigible to say the least, and those who think the free movement of goods and services will benefit much indegenous East Africans is dreaming. Our economies, Kenya to the highest degree, are foreign owned. the customs union, for example, would mostly benefit the multinational companies.

BUT the free movement of people, labour, access to land, right of residence would ONLY benefit kenyans, ugandans, burundians and rwandans. All these countries are experiencing one kind of crisis or another the worst being various kinds of violence or wars and land and employment crises. Citizens in all thee countries are looking for an exit, for refuge. The only way to stay comfortable (somewhat) in these countries is to join the ruling elite, to acquire a political position. That is why the political wrangling never seem to end in these countries.

ALL FERTILE LAND WORTH INVESTING IN IS TAKEN UP IN KENYA, UGANDA, BURUNDI AND RWANDA. SO A TANZANIA CAN NOT ACQUIRE NO LAND IN THESE COUNTRIES. THERE IS SIMPLY NO LAND TO ACCESS. THERE ARE ALSO NO JOBS TO ACCESS IN THOSE COUNTRIES. FURTHERMORE WHAT WILL A TANZANIA GO TO DO IN THOSE COUNTRIES WHILE THE CITIZENS OF THOSE COUNTRIES ARE IN TOP FLIGHT SEEKING FOR REFUGE OUTSIDE THEIR COUTRIES. come the intergration there is no single Tanzanian who would go to let's say kenya to seek better life. The opposite will be the case.

So the eyes of all our neighbours are in Tanzania. The song is go Tanzania, go Tanzania! Like the "go West" song of America before the civil war.

 

[LaVerite]

Stop burying your head in the sand and face the facts.. Look at the donor funding in your budget, its embarrassing, a whooping 70%, maybe more, and then you are insinuating that you are in a way better than us, shameful.

Sometimes you act like there are no slums in Tanzania, bro, zipo and they are not in a better state than our Kibera.

Smatta you are crazy and stop wasting our time. A person who cooks up statistics is not only irresponsible , but also a crook. But show me a kenyan who is not a crook and I will point you a liyer.

 

[MzalendoHalisi]

Hawa jamaa hawana ardhi: watatutafuta tu!

 

[Smatta]

Smatta your argument shows you also have nothing within your ears despite an ability to use english language correctly in expressing your nonsense. This is not uncommon to kenyans. They hide behind the english language. If what you have explained above was true federations of one sort or the other would have been common place throughout this globe. Your implying that the people with money 'exploiters' (are these kenyans???' can have their way despite the rhetoric resistance of the poor (Tanzanians??). But you have forgotten that the real exploiters (people with real money) do not need any kind of integration to exploit the poor countries like Tanzania and kenya. Kenya has been fucked (exploitated) inside out by imperialists since the colonial era leaving millions of people dirty poor and landless. Those people with big money did not need the EAC (which collapsed in 1977) to https://jamii.app/JFUserGuide kenya bare. And they are there to stay. What have kenyans benefitd from the so called foreign investments save for the ruling elite who accomplices.

Stereotyping is an ugly disease, its unkind of you to portray my countrymen as having a certain character.. Take an example; if I say that Tanzanians are illetrate, thats unkind because, though most of you have never seen the inside of a class, some of your are worth their salt education wise, so I cant come and lay claim that Tanzanians are uneducated, because a handful of you are.

The exploiters with the money can be Tanzanians, Kenyans, Ugandans or even foreigners from western countries, with interest in one way or another in one or two of the EA countries. They are the ones with the say in most of the policies that govern us, therefore you cant do ish when the reaper comes knocking..

Desist from using curse words, stop catching feelings when people attack your country, I think you could explain yourself better without the word https://jamii.app/JFUserGuide, or you just needed to say it to feel sophisticated and boost your ego.

This community is real, thats when you will know that empty talk dont count, you simply cant stop an idea whose time has come.. EAC is here to stay, if you feel short changed you will have to talk to your boy Kikwete.