Chadema, Igunga Itufunze kuwa na heshima

[davidie]

embu niambie kesi ipi wewe uliifuatilia ukaielewa,unipe facts,issue,decision,reasoning na sheria ilotumika..

Nakwambia tundu lissu atawacost nyie.
Ustaarab ni hulka ya mtu,haufundishwi darasani wala hakuna chuo cha sheria kinafundisha ustaarab..

Unaweza kucritique reasoning za majaji sawa lakini sio kutoa baseless accusations which end up being personal attacks..

namfahamu sana tundu lissu kuliko wewe unavyomfahamu, najua uwezo wake tokeo tukiwa darasa moja pale mlimani ni miongoni mwa watu wenye uwezo mkubwa wa kufikiri na kuufanyia kazi ubongo wake kwa kutoa maamuzi sahihi na yenye uhakika pasipo shaka kawaida ni mtu anayesimama kwenye ukweli na usawa.

 

[Curriculum Specialist]

Hukumu ya leo kuhusu matokeo ya uchaguzi Igunga imeibua vitu kadhaa kwa vyama vya siasa,hasa chadema kujifunza.

Wamekuwa wepesi sana siku zote kulalamika mahakama haitendi haki na kuwa mhimili huu wa haki unaingiliwa sana. Lakini leo wamekuwa wepesi kusema haki imetendeka-kisa wameshinda kesi.

Je,haki inatendeka tu wakishinda chadema?Na uhuru wa mahakama unakuwa umeingiliwa pale tu ccm ikishinda kesi ya uchaguzi kama kule Arusha?

Nadhani let us give the devil his due(his being a devil notwithstanding!)
Tujifunze kutokuwa wepesi kuropoka,kulaumu,kukejeli,kutunga uongo na kutukanana/kuchafuana kusiko na msingi wala tija.

Nyongeza:
Tena hili la Tundu Lisu kuwaita majaji vilaza litawacost..mnajua kitu kinaitwa ‘judicial hunch‘? Ni ile hali ya jaji kuskiliza kesi na kuamua not on the basis of the facts and evidence tendered but on prior information,feelings,or opinions he holds regrding the matter..wakati mwingine tunasema jaji kawa ‘prejudiced‘.

Mfano,mshawatukana majaji sana kupitia Tundu Lisu,mtashangaa Godbless Lema akishinda rufaa yake Court of Appeal,ambayo haohao majaji mlowaita vilaza wanapreside?
It is so unfortunate that Tundu Lisu is an advocate of the high court,and courts subordinate thereto.He also happens to be his party‘s whip in the parliamnet.I though he should know better. If anything,hitting below the belt like that just works against him.it will all be coming back to him(and chadema for that matter!)

Siku zote chadema tumesisitiza kuheshimu mahakama, kuheshimu uhuru wake na kuacha kuziingilia, hatutaacha kusema hayo hata tukishinda kila kesi mahakamani kwasababu ni muhimu yasemwe hayo! Kilichotokea Igunga kimekuwa funzo kwa serikali ya CCM kwani wamezoea uchama dola, na huwa hawatenganishi shughuli za chama chao na za serikali, kwani hata CCM haina ofisi vijijini inatumia ofisi za serikali za vijiji kama za Chama baada ya ushindi huu, tutaendelea kuwatimua kwenye ofisi za vijiji na mitaa, ni matumizi mabaya ya rasilimali za umma! Hukumu hii imetoa funzo kwa CCM na serikali yake kwamba huduma za serikali hazina itikadi, serikali inapaswa kutoa huduma kwa wananchi bila kubagua! MIMI naamini matokeo ya urais yangekuwa yanapingwa mahakani lazima kikwete angevuliwa urais kwasababu na yeye alipinga kampeni za rushwa, matumizi ya nafasi ya urais, na kutoa ahadi kama rais na si mgombea!

 

[Mundali]

Kumbukumbu zipi? Tatizo kila mtu akikaa humu anajiona mwanasheria..ndio maana wakasema these are courts of law,not public opinion!

Pitia kesi ya Lema, haina upungufu wowote kisheria kweli? 1. Ni yupi anayeathirika na udhalilishaji, mdhalilishwaji ama mshika wa mdhalilishwaji? 2. Maslahi ya kisiasa kati ya pande mbili zenye wanachama wa vyama viwili vya siasa vinavyolalamikiana mahakamani inakuwa kwa upande wa walalamikiwa pekee? Mbona upande wa mlalamikaji wote waliotoa ushahidi mahakamani wana maslahi na chama chao kilicholalamika? 3. Haki inatendeka kwa kiasi gani iwapo aliyedhalilishwa hakutoa ushahidi jinsi gani alivyoumizwa na udhalilishaji? 4. Kuna uhusiano wowote kisheria kati ya udhalilishaji na masuala ya rushwa? Mimi si mwanasheria lakini mmhhh, ile hukumu iliniacha njia panda. Sijui tatizo ni Jaji, mawakili, mashahidi au kuna mkono usioonekana.

 

[Ston Merchant]

Hukumu ya leo kuhusu matokeo ya uchaguzi Igunga imeibua vitu kadhaa kwa vyama vya siasa,hasa chadema kujifunza.

Wamekuwa wepesi sana siku zote kulalamika mahakama haitendi haki na kuwa mhimili huu wa haki unaingiliwa sana. Lakini leo wamekuwa wepesi kusema haki imetendeka-kisa wameshinda kesi.

Je,haki inatendeka tu wakishinda chadema?Na uhuru wa mahakama unakuwa umeingiliwa pale tu ccm ikishinda kesi ya uchaguzi kama kule Arusha?

Nadhani let us give the devil his due(his being a devil notwithstanding!)
Tujifunze kutokuwa wepesi kuropoka,kulaumu,kukejeli,kutunga uongo na kutukanana/kuchafuana kusiko na msingi wala tija.

Nyongeza:
Tena hili la Tundu Lisu kuwaita majaji vilaza litawacost..mnajua kitu kinaitwa ‘judicial hunch‘? Ni ile hali ya jaji kuskiliza kesi na kuamua not on the basis of the facts and evidence tendered but on prior information,feelings,or opinions he holds regrding the matter..wakati mwingine tunasema jaji kawa ‘prejudiced‘.

Mfano,mshawatukana majaji sana kupitia Tundu Lisu,mtashangaa Godbless Lema akishinda rufaa yake Court of Appeal,ambayo haohao majaji mlowaita vilaza wanapreside?
It is so unfortunate that Tundu Lisu is an advocate of the high court,and courts subordinate thereto.He also happens to be his party‘s whip in the parliamnet.I though he should know better. If anything,hitting below the belt like that just works against him.it will all be coming back to him(and chadema for that matter!)

Ur the 1 who z unfortunate......... ts vry unfortunate kuona msomi kma ww kumlaumu Tundu wakati he has proved all what he said.......... ni lipi Tundu haja prove kuhusiana na kuingiliwa kwa mahakama..?

Au umetumwa?

 

[Lu-ma-ga]

Embu niambie kesi ipi wewe uliifuatilia ukaielewa,unipe facts,issue,decision,reasoning na sheria ilotumika..

Nakwambia Tundu Lissu atawacost nyie.
Ustaarab ni hulka ya mtu,haufundishwi darasani wala hakuna chuo cha sheria kinafundisha ustaarab..

Unaweza kucritique reasoning za majaji sawa lakini sio kutoa baseless accusations which end up being personal attacks..

Soma Gazeti la JAMHURI mliloamua kununua kopi zote mkidhani itawasaidia.ccm must go.

 

[Mcjoe]

Ni bayana kuwa ulivyoiweka, ulikuwa na nadhani bado una lako jambo na TL, lakini ulivyojaribu kulihalisha hapa, umelazimisha mno. Lisu katika utetezi wake ameweka single facts kuthibitisha alichokisema, hivi kati ya zile kuna inayomuhusu huyu aliyetoa uamuzi wa hiyo kesi ya Igunga au umefanya generalization? Na ikiwa kauli ya Lisu itaicost chadema, kama unavyodai (natumaini wewe si mmoja wa majaji ambao mmekula yamini kulipa kisasi kwa kuikandamiza chadema popote itakapotokea mahakamani), imekuwaje ile kamati ya maadili isimwite Mbowe ambaye ni m/kiti wa chadema na ni physical representative number one wa chadema? Tuseme hivi basi, ikiwa majaji watatenda kwa kulipa kisasi kwa yaliyosemwa na Lisu, sijui wewe unawateteaje kwamba hao si majaji makanjanja, kwasababu hiyo si profession yao (kufanya kazi kwa kulipa kisasi). Ningetumani useme, hukumu ya Igunga iwe fundisho kwa majaji wasiozingatia weledi wa kazi zao na sio kusema kutokana na hukumu ya Igunga, chadema ijifunze heshima, ukimaanisha kwamba isikosoe majaji hata pale ambapo hawatendi kadiri ya taratibu za kazi zao.

 

[Sangarara]

Hakuna chama cha siasa cha upinzani chenye ubavu wa kuvunja sheria za uchaguzi au za uendeshaji wa vyama vyao isipokuwa CCM peke yake. Ukizingatia namna CCM inavyoabuse mahusiano ya Serikali, Bunge na Mahakama ni rahisi sana kuona kwamba ushindani kati ya CCM na CHADEMA ni sawa na wa paka na Panya.

Huu sio ushahidi wa mahakama kutenda haki, wala maamuzi haya hayawezi kunipumbaza mimi binafsi niamini kwamba Mahakama yetu inauwezo wa kutenda haki kwa kila hali. Hata Kama CHADEMA itachukua madaraka leo, kama mahusiano ya Mahakama, Serikali na Rais yataendelea kuwa yalivyo, Itaanza kuipendelea CHADEMA asubuhi hiyo hiyo ya mabadiriko.

 

[MTK]

Hukumu ya leo kuhusu matokeo ya uchaguzi Igunga imeibua vitu kadhaa kwa vyama vya siasa,hasa chadema kujifunza.

Wamekuwa wepesi sana siku zote kulalamika mahakama haitendi haki na kuwa mhimili huu wa haki unaingiliwa sana. Lakini leo wamekuwa wepesi kusema haki imetendeka-kisa wameshinda kesi.

Je,haki inatendeka tu wakishinda chadema?Na uhuru wa mahakama unakuwa umeingiliwa pale tu ccm ikishinda kesi ya uchaguzi kama kule Arusha?

Nadhani let us give the devil his due(his being a devil notwithstanding!)
Tujifunze kutokuwa wepesi kuropoka,kulaumu,kukejeli,kutunga uongo na kutukanana/kuchafuana kusiko na msingi wala tija.

Nyongeza:
Tena hili la Tundu Lisu kuwaita majaji vilaza litawacost..mnajua kitu kinaitwa ‘judicial hunch‘? Ni ile hali ya jaji kuskiliza kesi na kuamua not on the basis of the facts and evidence tendered but on prior information,feelings,or opinions he holds regrding the matter..wakati mwingine tunasema jaji kawa ‘prejudiced‘.

Mfano,mshawatukana majaji sana kupitia Tundu Lisu,mtashangaa Godbless Lema akishinda rufaa yake Court of Appeal,ambayo haohao majaji mlowaita vilaza wanapreside?
It is so unfortunate that Tundu Lisu is an advocate of the high court,and courts subordinate thereto.He also happens to be his party‘s whip in the parliamnet.I though he should know better. If anything,hitting below the belt like that just works against him.it will all be coming back to him(and chadema for that matter!)

You know the words but you miss their meaning, too long on words but too short on substance!!
Vilaza ni vilaza tu hata ulie usage meno, haki Igunga imetendeka kwa sababu jaji in this case ameona kwamba kanuni za uchaguzi zilikiukwa na akaamua kichwa kitawale tumbo na si vinginenyo. na usidanganye umma, Kamanda Lissu hakuwahi kusema majaji wote ni vilaza, la hasha baadhi kweli ni vilaza wanatii matumbo yao zaidi kuliko vichwa vyao na maadili ya taaluma
Kwa hiyo wewe usitake kumtisha yeyote hapa, I doubt your moral authority kuifunda CDM, kwa sababu your analysis inaonyesha kuwa kuwa leaning heavily towards the status quo against CDM!

Vilaza wataitwa vilaza siku zote, Let CDM call a spade a spade not a big spoon! Kamanda Lissu kuwa wakili hakumfanyi zuzu wa kutokutambua kilaza na mjanja ni nani, if you were in the right frame of mind ungemsifia Lissu kwa kuthubutu kuikosoa taaluma yake yeye mwenyewe and not otherwise,

Kufumbia maovu macho na masikio ndio kilichoifikisha nchi yetu hapa ilipo kutokana na siasa za CCM za kulindana na huyu ni mwenzetu, kujifanya hawaoni wala kusikia nchi inadidimia kila kukicha.

 

[nyabibuye]

Embu niambie kesi ipi wewe uliifuatilia ukaielewa,unipe facts,issue,decision,reasoning na sheria ilotumika..

Nakwambia Tundu Lissu atawacost nyie.
Ustaarab ni hulka ya mtu,haufundishwi darasani wala hakuna chuo cha sheria kinafundisha ustaarab..

Unaweza kucritique reasoning za majaji sawa lakini sio kutoa baseless accusations which end up being personal attacks..

• 
  Mtoa hoja anachokosea ni kuonesha kuwa alichofanya Tundu Lissu ni kuwadhalilisha mahakama, ameshindwa kujiuliza kama ndani ya mfumo huu wa mahakama walioko ndani wanakubaliana na haya mambo yanavyokwenda, vyovyote itakavyokuwa, ukweli utabaki kuwa wapo majaji hawana uwezo wa kuwa majaji, we kama ni mwanasheria sema huyu anayesoma open university alikidhi vigezo vya kuwa jaji kwa mjibu wa taratibu zilizopo?
  Mfumo ni mbovu kwa hili hakuna argument, lakini pamoja na mfumo huo mbovu haiondoi ukweli kuwa kuna baadhi ya majaji ni wabovu na ni lazima watajwe kulingana na sifa zao pamoja na uwezo wao, hakuna, wala chadema hakiwezi kukubali majaji kama hao ambao uwezo wao uko hivi wasikilize kesi zake, lakini hata wakisikiliza uwezo wenyewe wa kuandika judgement hawana.
  • :israel:Madai ya lissu kwamba baadhi ya majaji hawana uwezo , binafsi nakumbuka usemi wa professor mmoja pale UDSM prof maina katika lecture zake, waliosoma investment law pale wanakumbuka mdaa wote amekuwa akisisitiza wanafunzi wake kutomwaibisha kama baadhi ya majaji ambao hawawezi hata kuandika sentensi moja ya kiingereza, kumbe hata walimu wetu wanajua huu ubovu ka nini tunalalamkia wakati ubovu umeoneshwa na udhaifu upo? kwa nini Asichukuliwe hatua huyu mbunge kama kuna mtu anadhani kuwa amepotosha umma?
    • :israel:Mwisho, kwa vyovyote vile, maneno yataandikwa sana, misamiati kidogo ya kisheria kuonesha jinsi tunavyodhani tuko imara kujua sheria zetu, lakini ukweli unabaki kuwa kama tukiacha unafiki, watanzania waliosoma hii fani na wakaamua kuisadia hii nchi upuuzi huu utaisha mara moja, SI SHANGAI HATA PALE UDSM KUNA MAPROF WANAJITOA UFAHAMU NA KUTETEA UOZO SEMBUSE HUKU MTAANI, KWANI HII MIKATABA HAISAINIWI NA HAWA TUNAOJIITA WANASHERIA? WANANCHI WAKIFUMBULIWA MACHO KWA UOZO TUNAOFANYA MANENO YA KUWATISHA YANAANZA, MARA ITAWAGHARIMU WAPI? DUNIA INAHITAJI MABALIKO TUBADILIKENI; HALI ILIVYO KWA SASA NI UPUUZI MTUPU HUKO.
      
      
    
    
    
    
  
  
  
  

 

[Bigaraone]

Hukumu ya leo kuhusu matokeo ya uchaguzi Igunga imeibua vitu kadhaa kwa vyama vya siasa,hasa chadema kujifunza.

Wamekuwa wepesi sana siku zote kulalamika mahakama haitendi haki na kuwa mhimili huu wa haki unaingiliwa sana. Lakini leo wamekuwa wepesi kusema haki imetendeka-kisa wameshinda kesi.

Je,haki inatendeka tu wakishinda chadema?Na uhuru wa mahakama unakuwa umeingiliwa pale tu ccm ikishinda kesi ya uchaguzi kama kule Arusha?

Nadhani let us give the devil his due(his being a devil notwithstanding!)
Tujifunze kutokuwa wepesi kuropoka,kulaumu,kukejeli,kutunga uongo na kutukanana/kuchafuana kusiko na msingi wala tija.

Nyongeza:
Tena hili la Tundu Lisu kuwaita majaji vilaza litawacost..mnajua kitu kinaitwa ‘judicial hunch‘? Ni ile hali ya jaji kuskiliza kesi na kuamua not on the basis of the facts and evidence tendered but on prior information,feelings,or opinions he holds regrding the matter..wakati mwingine tunasema jaji kawa ‘prejudiced‘.

Mfano,mshawatukana majaji sana kupitia Tundu Lisu,mtashangaa Godbless Lema akishinda rufaa yake Court of Appeal,ambayo haohao majaji mlowaita vilaza wanapreside?
It is so unfortunate that Tundu Lisu is an advocate of the high court,and courts subordinate thereto.He also happens to be his party‘s whip in the parliamnet.I though he should know better. If anything,hitting below the belt like that just works against him.it will all be coming back to him(and chadema for that matter!)

Tunatakiwa kujifunza na kila tukio hata kama yaliyojiri yanakuwa hayafurahishi kundi fulani. CDM kama muunganiko wa watu wa hitikadi moja wanajifunza na mengi na ndio maana si kila sehemu waliposhindwa wamefungua malalamiko kisheria. Pale ambapo hali imedhihirisha kuwa sheria na taratibu zimekiukwa ndiop hapo tu inapofingua kesi mahakamani. Kuna facts zinazoongoza mchakato huo na ndizo wanasheria na majaji makini wanazozisimamia. Hii haiji tu bali ni kujifunza na matukio na matokeo ikichagizwa na elimu ambayo wanayo. Sasa kushinda Igunga isiwe eti ndio wajifunze halafu wausafishe mhimili wa mahakama hata kama kuna mahali umechafuriwa. Huko ni kushindwa kuwa mkweli. Halafu Tindu Lisu hajalalamikia kila jaji au hakimu kuwa hafai bali aliweka waziwazi bila kificho kuwa uteuzi wa majaji una kasoro. Hapa hata mteuaji au kikundi kinachoteua kimekiuka taratibi zilizowekwa na kama rais ameamua kujiwekea za kwake hakuwahi kuuhabarisha umma kuwa sheria na taratibu za uteuzi zimebadirishwa haafu zikarishiwa na ikawa vingine .Lakini hata kama angeweka wazi lakini uteuzi ukaonekana haungalii uwezo wa mtu, utendaji na uzoefu katika kazi husika bado watu makini wanaoheshimu taalauma na maadili hawapaswi kufungwa mdomo. Na hiki ndicho Tindu Lisu alichokionyesha. Lakini kwanini la Tindu Lisu liwe ndi nong'wa wakati kwa nyakati tofauiti tumeshuhudia mahakama ikilaumiwa? Tume ya Jaji Warioba kuhusu rushwa haikuiacha mahakama salama. Rais Kikiwete alilalamika kuwa mikataba mibovu imetokana na wanasheria kushindwa kuandika mikataba ambao ndio hao wanaoteuliwa kuwa majaji/mahakimu. Sasa wengine waseme ila CDM wasiseme. Halafu bora CDM waliosemea hadharani kweupe kuliko wengine wanaolalamika. Kuna mwanasheria mmoja aliniambia kuwa ataacha kuchukua kesi za kutetea watu mahakamani kwani mahakimu na majaji walioteuliwa ahwajui sheria na hawawezi kuandika hukumu. Huyu ananungunikia uvinguni hataki kumake the issue public kwamba all is not well with judiciary. Hivyo uamue kuipamba mahakama kwa kuitolea maneno makali CDM, Mahakama haiwezi kusafishika kwa kuichafua CDM bali itajisafisha yenyewe when it goes back to the quality and standards that established it

 

[Lunyungu]

Hukumu ya leo kuhusu matokeo ya uchaguzi Igunga imeibua vitu kadhaa kwa vyama vya siasa,hasa chadema kujifunza.

Wamekuwa wepesi sana siku zote kulalamika mahakama haitendi haki na kuwa mhimili huu wa haki unaingiliwa sana. Lakini leo wamekuwa wepesi kusema haki imetendeka-kisa wameshinda kesi.

Je,haki inatendeka tu wakishinda chadema?Na uhuru wa mahakama unakuwa umeingiliwa pale tu ccm ikishinda kesi ya uchaguzi kama kule Arusha?

Nadhani let us give the devil his due(his being a devil notwithstanding!)
Tujifunze kutokuwa wepesi kuropoka,kulaumu,kukejeli,kutunga uongo na kutukanana/kuchafuana kusiko na msingi wala tija.

Nyongeza:
Tena hili la Tundu Lisu kuwaita majaji vilaza litawacost..mnajua kitu kinaitwa ‘judicial hunch‘? Ni ile hali ya jaji kuskiliza kesi na kuamua not on the basis of the facts and evidence tendered but on prior information,feelings,or opinions he holds regrding the matter..wakati mwingine tunasema jaji kawa ‘prejudiced‘.

Mfano,mshawatukana majaji sana kupitia Tundu Lisu,mtashangaa Godbless Lema akishinda rufaa yake Court of Appeal,ambayo haohao majaji mlowaita vilaza wanapreside?
It is so unfortunate that Tundu Lisu is an advocate of the high court,and courts subordinate thereto.He also happens to be his party‘s whip in the parliamnet.I though he should know better. If anything,hitting below the belt like that just works against him.it will all be coming back to him(and chadema for that matter!)

Mkuu una kiingereza kibovu sana na unaweza kuwa wale Majaji wajinga?Lissu was open and clear hajatukana na ushahidi mwingi uko nje ondoa umbumbu wako

 

[Mr.Busta]

Hii inawezekana ikawa janja ya CCM kuhalalisha hukumu ya rufaa ya Lema in favour of CCM.

it can be!

 

[ntamaholo]

hukumu ya leo kuhusu matokeo ya uchaguzi igunga imeibua vitu kadhaa kwa vyama vya siasa,hasa chadema kujifunza.

Wamekuwa wepesi sana siku zote kulalamika mahakama haitendi haki na kuwa mhimili huu wa haki unaingiliwa sana. Lakini leo wamekuwa wepesi kusema haki imetendeka-kisa wameshinda kesi.

Je,haki inatendeka tu wakishinda chadema?na uhuru wa mahakama unakuwa umeingiliwa pale tu ccm ikishinda kesi ya uchaguzi kama kule arusha?

Nadhani let us give the devil his due(his being a devil notwithstanding!)
tujifunze kutokuwa wepesi kuropoka,kulaumu,kukejeli,kutunga uongo na kutukanana/kuchafuana kusiko na msingi wala tija.

Nyongeza:
Tena hili la tundu lisu kuwaita majaji vilaza litawacost..mnajua kitu kinaitwa ‘judicial hunch‘? Ni ile hali ya jaji kuskiliza kesi na kuamua not on the basis of the facts and evidence tendered but on prior information,feelings,or opinions he holds regrding the matter..wakati mwingine tunasema jaji kawa ‘prejudiced‘.

Mfano,mshawatukana majaji sana kupitia tundu lisu,mtashangaa godbless lema akishinda rufaa yake court of appeal,ambayo haohao majaji mlowaita vilaza wanapreside?
It is so unfortunate that tundu lisu is an advocate of the high court,and courts subordinate thereto.he also happens to be his party‘s whip in the parliamnet.i though he should know better. If anything,hitting below the belt like that just works against him.it will all be coming back to him(and chadema for that matter!)

iwapo jaji ataacha maadili yake na kufanya kumkoa mtu, naye anaingia katika kashfa ya kutolewa mtaani.