After so much drama finally the EAC defence protocol signed!

[JokaKuu]

While ignoring the bad and old cancer "politics", kenya has the best diplomatic relations in the continent. You have localised everything even language which makes you fail the amiability test.

Kabaridi,

..but historically Kenya is known to have supported Apartheid South Africa, and Renamo bandits. I would not call that the best diplomacy.

..also u left Somalia to disintegrate, now the whole of East Africa and the world is paying a heavy price.

..I think when it comes to regional security and military intervention, Kenya needs to sit back and take notes frm those countries that have a record of success in those areas.

..Tanzania iliingia Uganda ikaondoa serikali[iddi amini] moja, ika-install serikali[prof.lule,binaisa,muwanga] ya mpito, ikaendesha uchaguzi ya Uganda, na baadaye kuondoka tukiwa na heshima zetu. tumeshirikiana na Mozambique freedom fighters from Ruvuma to Maputo na kuweka serikali huru ya nchi hiyo. Tanzania has also been involved militarily in Seychelles,Comoro, and Zimbabwe.

..Now, tell me which country in the EAC can claim to have the experience that Tanzania has when it comes to multinational defence protocal.

NB:

..Rwanda and Uganda waliingia Congo-Kinshasa lakini wameondoka wakiwa tarnished kutokana na attrocities walizo-commit wakiwa huko.

 

[Kabaridi]

Kabaridi,

..but historically Kenya is known to have supported Apartheid South Africa, and Renamo bandits. I would not call that the best diplomacy.

..also u left Somalia to disintegrate, now the whole of East Africa and the world is paying a heavy price.

..I think when it comes to regional security and military intervention, Kenya needs to sit back and take notes frm those countries that have a record of success in those areas.

..Tanzania iliingia Uganda ikaondoa serikali[iddi amini] moja, ika-install serikali[prof.lule,binaisa,muwanga] ya mpito, ikaendesha uchaguzi ya Uganda, na baadaye kuondoka tukiwa na heshima zetu. tumeshirikiana na Mozambique freedom fighters from Ruvuma to Maputo na kuweka serikali huru ya nchi hiyo. Tanzania has also been involved militarily in Seychelles,Comoro, and Zimbabwe.

..Now, tell me which country in the EAC can claim to have the experience that Tanzania has when it comes to multinational defence protocal.

NB:

..Rwanda and Uganda waliingia Congo-Kinshasa lakini wameondoka wakiwa tarnished kutokana na attrocities walizo-commit wakiwa huko.

Joka Kuu,


Let us deal with facts as they are,


We have to take the point in green with a grain of salt! You are accusing the wrong crowd. Are you talking about post independent Kenya or British East Africa protectorate!? Was there diplomacy with the colonialist?!! I have to remind you we should not forget to appreciate what happened in East Africa specifically the armed struggle to remove British rule. That is the key event that has forever shaped East Africa and its destiny. As well as remember, in Southern Africa, the "weakened" apartheid was institutionalized until the 90's. Weakened because the British had lost all territory in EA further. So this was not any black man's project so to speak. Can we ask ourselves where we would be if the British had been given a chance to grip th EA territory? Because the Germans, seated then at Dar-es-salaam, conferred Tanganyika to the British East Africa under the mandate from supreme council of the league of nations (now UN).http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Tanzania

While there were avid plans by the Germans to secretly hand Britain the territory(Tanganyika), there was a serious uprising in the north that was greatly undermining the British's grip on the East African territory. LONDON under Queen Elizabeth II, planned to spread apartheid to Kenya after its successful institutionalization in Southern Africa(Northern Rhodesia and Southern Rhodesia). Please note; that was the center of joint operations between the apartheid secret police, the BOSS, the CIA and British M15. Kenya Today: Breaking the Yoke of Colonialism in Africa - Ndirangu Mwaura - Google Books. In Rhodesia (Zimbabwe) it was as thoroughly institutionalized as in South Africa. In other parts of the Empire(British East Africa) it was more piecemeal.

Most countries in East Africa should appreciate the role of freedom fighters. Right now the UN has overruled the law that neighboring countries that border conflict areas can engage in peace keeping missions. That is why you have seen the KDF in Somalia. You have to realize it is this law that time-to-time barred Kenya from actively engaging in peace efforts in Somalia. But make no mistake that Somalia did not fall because of Kenya's negligence to intervene. It was systematically destroyed by influence from western political empires. From a period of 1970 to 1991 where there were supremacy wars between Russia and Britain to indirectly influence the government at Mogadishu. Hence from such interference, two autonomous nations were born, British Somali land and Somali. Therefore so long as there is interference from abroad, it will take time to make Somalia stable.

 

[njemba fulani]

If I read on and between the lines you sound like embracing colonial legacy.... and, that is not diplomatic relations, better to call colonial hangover.....

I have been in South America, Latin America, Continental Europe, Scandinavia and Eastern Europe.... majority (some of them are termed as prof. dr dr -academic title) don't know the Queen language.... they have localised their language. But are miles far ahead to you (kenyans) who claim that unlocalised (simply becoz u use Queen lingua)

Apparently they cant even use properly the language the pretend to be theirs. At least we have our kiswahili.

 

[Alpha]

kenya has the best diplomatic relations in the continent.

You truly are delusional. smh

 

[Kabaridi]

No boss in EAC bloc thanks to Dar stubborn ways:

By CHARLES ONYANGO-OBBOPosted Monday, December 19 2011 at 09:04



If you ask any non-Tanzanian East African which country is the stumbling block to regional integration, the answer will come fast and furious – Tanzania.


One of the low points in Tanzania's supposedly East African Community-wrecking ways, came at the recent EAC summit meetings at the end of November in the Burundi capital, Bujumbura.

Ministers from Burundi, Kenya, Rwanda, and Uganda signed an agreement for the establishment of the East African Community Political Federation. Tanzania decided not to. Fair enough.

But it did so dramatically. It decided to leave its seat at the signing ceremony empty and yawning. However, it eventually signed a few days later.

But it is what happened in the closed meetings of the EAC Council of Ministers that still has tongues wagging. The EAC has been working on an East African mutual defence pact.

When they met in Bujumbura all the partners states had pushed the pact through their Cabinets, their armies, and attorneys-general.

Tanzania had two ministers at the Council meeting. During the discussions, Tanzania was emphatic that under no circumstances, should the pact be allowed to drag other EAC countries into an unjustified war started by a belligerent member.

As the ministers moved to sign up on the pact, something unprecedented happened. Permanent Secretaries don't sit in the Council of Ministers' meeting, but they are sometimes called in, in very technical sessions.


The Permanent Secretary in Tanzania's delegation, got up, grabbed the microphone, and announced that Tanzania was not signing on. That the position the Tanzanian ministers leading the delegation had accepted "was not Tanzania's position."

The Tanzanian ministers were embarrassed, fidgeted, and tried to smile their way out of the mess. Yet, even with all that, one of the best things that has happened to the EAC is Tanzania's so-called obstructionism.

If it hadn't been because of Tanzania, the EAC would probably have a Monetary Union and a political federation by now. Because they would have been put together hurriedly without the hard, long, and frustrating negotiation and debate that these things require, the EAC would probably have collapsed by 2015.

Tanzania's stubbornness has forced the EAC to pay attention to detail, and to pause and take in everyone's views – something most, if not all, EAC leaders don't do back home where their word is law.

In the process, the EAC is the most thought-through regional co-operation bloc, and the most democratic in Africa. In the West African bloc ECOWAS, Nigeria calls the shots.

In Southern Africa's SADC, South Africa is boss. Tanzania is a member of SADC, and in an honest moment a government official in Dar es Salaam said that in "SADC we are sometimes treated like second class members."

In EAC, there is no boss. Everyone is equal. For all these reasons, the EAC will endure. If Tanzania is really anti-EAC, then it has done the very opposite. Its intransigence is producing an organisation it cannot afford not to be part of.

Charles Onyango-Obbo is Nation Media Group's executive editor for Africa & Digital Media. E-mail: cobbo@ke.nationmedia.com. Twitter: @cobbo3




Source: Africa Review*- No boss in EAC bloc, thanks to Dar

 

[JokaKuu]

No boss in EAC bloc thanks to Dar stubborn ways:

By CHARLES ONYANGO-OBBOPosted Monday, December 19 2011 at 09:04



If you ask any non-Tanzanian East African which country is the stumbling block to regional integration, the answer will come fast and furious – Tanzania.


One of the low points in Tanzania's supposedly East African Community-wrecking ways, came at the recent EAC summit meetings at the end of November in the Burundi capital, Bujumbura.

Ministers from Burundi, Kenya, Rwanda, and Uganda signed an agreement for the establishment of the East African Community Political Federation. Tanzania decided not to. Fair enough.

But it did so dramatically. It decided to leave its seat at the signing ceremony empty and yawning. However, it eventually signed a few days later.

But it is what happened in the closed meetings of the EAC Council of Ministers that still has tongues wagging. The EAC has been working on an East African mutual defence pact.

When they met in Bujumbura all the partners states had pushed the pact through their Cabinets, their armies, and attorneys-general.

Tanzania had two ministers at the Council meeting. During the discussions, Tanzania was emphatic that under no circumstances, should the pact be allowed to drag other EAC countries into an unjustified war started by a belligerent member.

As the ministers moved to sign up on the pact, something unprecedented happened. Permanent Secretaries don't sit in the Council of Ministers' meeting, but they are sometimes called in, in very technical sessions.


The Permanent Secretary in Tanzania's delegation, got up, grabbed the microphone, and announced that Tanzania was not signing on. That the position the Tanzanian ministers leading the delegation had accepted "was not Tanzania's position."

The Tanzanian ministers were embarrassed, fidgeted, and tried to smile their way out of the mess. Yet, even with all that, one of the best things that has happened to the EAC is Tanzania's so-called obstructionism.

If it hadn't been because of Tanzania, the EAC would probably have a Monetary Union and a political federation by now. Because they would have been put together hurriedly without the hard, long, and frustrating negotiation and debate that these things require, the EAC would probably have collapsed by 2015.

Tanzania's stubbornness has forced the EAC to pay attention to detail, and to pause and take in everyone's views – something most, if not all, EAC leaders don't do back home where their word is law.

In the process, the EAC is the most thought-through regional co-operation bloc, and the most democratic in Africa. In the West African bloc ECOWAS, Nigeria calls the shots.

In Southern Africa's SADC, South Africa is boss. Tanzania is a member of SADC, and in an honest moment a government official in Dar es Salaam said that in "SADC we are sometimes treated like second class members."

In EAC, there is no boss. Everyone is equal. For all these reasons, the EAC will endure. If Tanzania is really anti-EAC, then it has done the very opposite. Its intransigence is producing an organisation it cannot afford not to be part of.

Charles Onyango-Obbo is Nation Media Group's executive editor for Africa & Digital Media. E-mail: cobbo@ke.nationmedia.com. Twitter: @cobbo3




Source: Africa Review*- No boss in EAC bloc, thanks to Dar

Kabaridi,

..but we only see this kind of attacks frm Kenyan media. WHY?

..Tanzania is Kenyas number 1 trading partner among EA countries.

..Now, why does Kenya treat us with such suspicion and contempt???

..I dont think Tanzanians feel that we r treated as 2nd class within SADC. But I would confess that we sometimes feel like we r not appreciated enough considering how much we Tanzania sacrificed during the liberation war for Southern Africa.

..I think these continuous attacks by Kenyan media, and the efforts to gang other EA countries against Tanzania, are not helping in strengthening the EAC, but rather weakening it. I am saying that because I suspect Kenyan attitude will not stop once Tanzania is not in the EAC.

..Now, kuna sehemu nime-highlight in purple. sijui kwanini hukuziona hizo au ndiyo unaendeleza ATTACKS za Kenya kwa Tanzania.

NB:


..kwenye hiyo article MKENYA anaona hapo ulipo-highlight with RED.

..at the same time MTANZANIA anaona hapo nilipo-highlight with PURPLE.

 

[MAMMAMIA]

NAOMBA MSAADA WANAJUKWAA. KUNA KITU NASHINDWA KUKIELEWA. Kwa nini kila wakati pakitokea mabishano kuhusu matatizo katika jumuia ya Afrika Mashariki, hatima yake huwa ni matatizo kati ya Kenya na Tanzania? Kwa nini?

Hata mimi huwa hii kitu inanishangaza. Ni mara chache kuona mada imeanzishwa juu ya JAM (EAC) bila kuona WAtanzania na Wakenya wanasuguana.
- Wakenya wanailamumu TZ kwa "kuvamia Uganda", wakati Amini ndiye aliyeanza kuipiga TZ.
- Watanzania wanailaumu KN "kuivamia Somalia", wakati al-Shabaab na mabwana wao alQaida waliishambulia Kenya.
- Kenya inaitaka TZ ijitoe SADC, wakti Kenya iko kwenye InterGovernmental Authority on Development http://igad.int/index.php., wakati kauli mbiu ya IGAD ni Peace, Prosperity and Regional Integration.

Kwa upande mwengine ninajiuliza pia, kwa nini TZ na KN zimo katika jumuiya mbili tafauti zenye dhamira moja (SADC na IGAD)?

Ukiangalia hapo juu, ni kuwa zote kwa maoni yangu, TZ na KN zinataka ziceheze huku na huku lakini hazithamini kanuni za mchezo ndani ya JAM.; ikiachia mbali "utani wa jadi" baina ya nchi mbili hizi. Lakini kama ingekuwa utani tu kwa maana ya utani ndani ya mila za Kiafrika, wala nisingekuwa na wasiwasi, lakini katika utani wa KN na TZ kuna uhasama ndani yake, jambo ambalo kama hazitabadilika, nina wasiwasi na umoja huu nao tutakuja kugawana mbao. Nani atabakia na mbao nyingi, sijui.

 

[JokaKuu]

Hata mimi huwa hii kitu inanishangaza. Ni mara chache kuona mada imeanzishwa juu ya JAM (EAC) bila kuona WAtanzania na Wakenya wanasuguana.
- Wakenya wanailamumu TZ kwa "kuvamia Uganda", wakati Amini ndiye aliyeanza kuipiga TZ.
- Watanzania wanailaumu KN "kuivamia Somalia", wakati al-Shabaab na mabwana wao alQaida waliishambulia Kenya.
- Kenya inaitaka TZ ijitoe SADC, wakti Kenya iko kwenye InterGovernmental Authority on Development IGAD Portal., wakati kauli mbiu ya IGAD ni Peace, Prosperity and Regional Integration.

Kwa upande mwengine ninajiuliza pia, kwa nini TZ na KN zimo katika jumuiya mbili tafauti zenye dhamira moja (SADC na IGAD)?

Ukiangalia hapo juu, ni kuwa zote kwa maoni yangu, TZ na KN zinataka ziceheze huku na huku lakini hazithamini kanuni za mchezo ndani ya JAM.; ikiachia mbali "utani wa jadi" baina ya nchi mbili hizi. Lakini kama ingekuwa utani tu kwa maana ya utani ndani ya mila za Kiafrika, wala nisingekuwa na wasiwasi, lakini katika utani wa KN na TZ kuna uhasama ndani yake, jambo ambalo kama hazitabadilika, nina wasiwasi na umoja huu nao tutakuja kugawana mbao. Nani atabakia na mbao nyingi, sijui.

MAMMAMIA,

..Kenya ndiyo hawaishi kutushambulia wa-Tanzania.

..how many times umesoma magazeti yao yakiandika vibaya kuhusu Tanzania au SADC??

..lini umeona gazeti la Tanzania limeandika one thing about IGAD??

..kwa watu ambao wamemwaga damu kwa ajili ya demokrasia inashangaza kuwa wana-behave namna hii linapokuja suala la mijadala kuhusu future ya EAC.

 

[livefire]

i dont think some of you guys understand what IGAD is. Its not a trading block per se...its core function was and is to deliberate on security issues. Uganda has vowed to retaliate an attack on SS but with a cautious statement, awaiting approval of IGAD. Does that sink in now? Joka kuu we value any form of tradeand that includes Tanzania but our first and biggest regional trader is Uganda. That explains why Kenya is keen at creating the biggest mission in Uganda. About Tanzania and her reluctance to EAC it doesnt take a genius....all excuses sell here and we as a region are kind of getting used to that.

 

[MAMMAMIA]

i dont think some of you guys understand what IGAD is. Its not a trading block per se...its core function was and is to deliberate on security issues.

Would you please Sir, read this article This article for example, and show me only one word refering to security? What's behind the veil hidden behind IGAD?

 

[livefire]

Would you please Sir, read this article This article for example, and show me only one word refering to security? What's behind the veil hidden behind IGAD?

thats the expanded IGAD, read what was the initial purpose of this unit. A simple google or wikipedia search will do MAMMIA....forgive me i cant fire at a lady willingly, (love the handle).lol.
After getting the same try to establish the quantities of trade among IGAD patner states then come back to the negotiating table and see if its a trading block, regional peace and security platform or both. Kenya anyways just as Uganda has effectively manouvered IGAD and EAC to gain from both sides with no collateral. Is that hard for Tanzania?

 

[Kabaridi]

Kabaridi,

..but we only see this kind of attacks frm Kenyan media. WHY?

..Tanzania is Kenyas number 1 trading partner among EA countries.

..Now, why does Kenya treat us with such suspicion and contempt???

..I dont think Tanzanians feel that we r treated as 2nd class within SADC. But I would confess that we sometimes feel like we r not appreciated enough considering how much we Tanzania sacrificed during the liberation war for Southern Africa.

..I think these continuous attacks by Kenyan media, and the efforts to gang other EA countries against Tanzania, are not helping in strengthening the EAC, but rather weakening it. I am saying that because I suspect Kenyan attitude will not stop once Tanzania is not in the EAC.

..Now, kuna sehemu nime-highlight in purple. sijui kwanini hukuziona hizo au ndiyo unaendeleza ATTACKS za Kenya kwa Tanzania.

NB:


..kwenye hiyo article MKENYA anaona hapo ulipo-highlight with RED.

..at the same time MTANZANIA anaona hapo nilipo-highlight with PURPLE.

@ Joka Kuu,


Thanks for replying, lakini nilivyojua tu kutoka mwanzo kwamba hutaona hoja la muhimu na la msingi katika hii makala. Wewe/watanzania munaona kwenye purple na Mkenya anaona kwenye umeweka red. Ninashindwa mara-kwa-mara, kwanini kama onyango obbo alivosema, Tanzania ina madhumuni ya kuua EAC Kisiri? Ndio Nchi pekee imesimama kidete katika kuobstruct viongozi kufikia uamuzi wa kuweka defense pact. Ndio nchi pekee inaweza kosa kutuma waakilishi katika mikutano, wakati wengine wametuma wao, huku nchi inayohusika kuandaa mkutano ime tumia fedha kutoka bajeti yake. Hafadhali TZ ikubaliane na EAC kabla mlango hujafungwa. Huu mkataba si mithili ya ule wa ndoa ya watu wawili. Mkataba unajumuisha mataifa/mashaidi tano. TZ inafaa iwe brave kuingia wazi katika huu mkataba. Bahati tuliyonayo EAC ni hakuna taifa EA ina mamlaka juu ya mwingine kama inavyo dhihirika hapo SADC na ECOWAS, inayofanya hii bloc kuwa a model bloc. Tunasakamwa kufikia malengo ya a model regional bloc sababu ya mijadala isiyokuwa na mwisho. Mambo mengine Jokakuu yanafaa kutumia Hekima kidogo.

Kwenye red>>>>...........Wakati Afrika Kusini hawadhamini shughuli zenu za ukombozi kuwatoa kutoka minyororo za apartheid, this is akin to mordern day hypocrasy. Huku mukidhihakiwa hapo SADC, muko na nafasi ya kujiunga kamili na EAC. Kama Tanzania is the main trading partner na Kenya karibu miaka hamsini tokea tupate huru, ni nini hofu munayo?. A belligerent member, Je unaweza kupoint any indications of any belligerent member tulionao EA? You see EAC inafanya juhudi zote community iwe an economic bloc bila gimmiks zozote za siasa. Lakini naona siasa ndani ya this economic bloc which should not be the case.

 

[Kabaridi]

MAMMAMIA,

..Kenya ndiyo hawaishi kutushambulia wa-Tanzania.

..how many times umesoma magazeti yao yakiandika vibaya kuhusu Tanzania au SADC??

..lini umeona gazeti la Tanzania limeandika one thing about IGAD??

..kwa watu ambao wamemwaga damu kwa ajili ya demokrasia inashangaza kuwa wana-behave namna hii linapokuja suala la mijadala kuhusu future ya EAC.

Kwa muda mrefu sasa Afrika "Demokrasia" ndicho chanzo cha matatizo zote Afrika kutopiga hatua katika maendeleo inayohushisha mwananchi. Maajabu mzungu kafahamu ujanja huu na kushinikiza kwa lazima kupitia vibaraka vyao na institutions za kisheria na vyombo vya habari. Maskini Waafrika tumefungiwa mazingaombwe kudhania kutofautiana kwenye kila kitu ndio Demokrasia, huku utekelezaji wa mambo muhimu kwa jamii kama maji umeme, usalama ukisahaulika na kutupiliwa mbali na bado mwafrika anashindwa kuwaletea watu anaosema anawadhamini. Hivi umwagikaji wa damu wa uchaguzi kenya mwaka 08 ndio imebaki nyimbo kwenu lakini bado tunashuhudia UCHUMI ikiendelea kusonga kwa kasi inayopaswa. Siasa za Demokrasia Afrika zimegeuka udhia kati ya "mafahali". Ajabu hata na "Demokrasia" asilimia ya watu kwenye miji hawana maji, umeme, na viungo vingine muhimu na mtu hana aibu kutaja Demokrasia (Katika matamshi ya kiafrika siasa za udhia). Katika EU, na US, demokrasia inaweza endeshwa bila machafuko baada ya kustawi kiuchumi na maendeleo miaka hii yote. India na umaskini wote huo umejaa demokrasia tele. Inangangania nafasi kati ya mataifa yaliostawi kiuchumi na maendeleo huku wakijawa ufukara, unyanyapaa kwa maskini, vitongoji duni. Lakini cha kufurahisha ni kwamba wana ruwaza kuleta maendeleo. Wengine Afrika mataifa nikupigia debe demokrasia bila kufanikisha maendeleo.