Kobello
JF-Expert Member
- Feb 20, 2011
- 8,635
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Tanzania??? Learn from Kenya?
Lol, I said it a looong time ago, We don't bow down to a b!^ch a$$ nation like Kenya ...... Never!
After so much drama finally the EAC defence protocol signed!
- Thread starter moyo
- Start date
Lol, I said it a looong time ago, We don't bow down to a b!^ch a$$ nation like Kenya ...... Never!
- Thread starter
- #23
Am sorry to inform you that you have bowed down to us for so many years....otherwise lets go back to the topic...
Kobello
JF-Expert Member
- Feb 20, 2011
- 8,635
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Nah! let's go back to bowing down, cos the topic is just stupid.
livefire
JF-Expert Member
- Oct 31, 2011
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yu need checks and balances in your new found verbose charisma. Av said it before n al say it again, never compare Kenya and Tz n mind about calling my motherland bitchy. its doing fine than some dozing ass heads down south. *mention Kenya in foul taste u have me in your case, am pretty idle*
Kabaridi
JF-Expert Member
- Nov 15, 2011
- 2,023
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The fear was that Tanzania wanted clarification on EAC's "attack on a member state should be deemed as an attack on all member states vis-a-vis SADCs Mutual Defence Pact states that: An armed attack against a State Party shall be considered a threat to regional security. The problem is TZ is showing indifference. When they arrived in SADC they had to comply with the latter clause regardless. But now they are bulldozing via demands on EAC. Both clauses from EAC and SADC serve to avert simmilar risks.
Where are you getting that from? The EAC Mutual Defence Pact is not in place and as far as I know the negotiations for it are not yet on! That is the basis of the Communique which says "THE HEADS OF STATE SIGNED THE EAST AFRICAN COMMUNITY PROTOCOL ON CO-OPERATION IN DEFENCE. THE SUMMIT DIRECTED THAT THE PROTOCOL BE RATIFIED AND INSTRUMENTS OF RATIFICATION DEPOSITED WITH THE SECRETARY GENERAL BY 30[SUP]TH[/SUP] NOVEMBER 2012 AND THAT THE NEGOTIATIONS ON THE MUTUAL DEFENCE PACT COMMENCE IMMEDIATELY THEREAFTER"
So keep on dreaming! Tanzania will emerge victorious on this. What we should advise our leaders to do is not to ratify the Protocol within the given time frame. You can have your way with the Ministers, but you are not likely to win over Parliamentarians. So, go tell Kenya, Uganda and Rwanda that they should devise other means to deal with their War minded Philosophies and do not expect Tanzania to back them up!
Kabaridi
JF-Expert Member
- Nov 15, 2011
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The point I was trying to make is the similarity of the EAC and SADC Defense protocols. I am saying that you guys are showing indifference through arm-twisting the EA assembly. And this mind you we have seen not only recently. Even while signing other protocols, Tanzania has been trying to exert pressure to EAC. This is not good for the future of EAC. But I am glad that CCM is showing the way to the future they know how important it is for regional security and will sign the mutual defense protocol. How are simmilar clauses becoming war-minded philosphies? Are we stalling because of how clauses are proposed to be written or what is the issue?
Kabaridi,
..SADC defence protocol originates frm OAU Southern African Liberation committee, and another body that was called the Frontline States for the liberation of Southern Africa.
..Tanzania, bcuz of her proximity to the countries that were under colonial rule, was appointed to be the host of OAU Liberation committee. It was also stipulated that the Executive Secretary of that organ was to be appointed by the President of Tanzania. The 1st executive secretary of OAU Liberation committee was Amb.George Magombe who was handed over to another Tanzanian Brig General Hashim Mbita.
..OAU Liberation committee had to task of coordinating humanitarian assistance, and military training for groups like FRELIMO,MPLA,UNITA,SWAPO,ZANU,ZAPU,ANC,and PAC, which were fighting for the independence of different southern African countries.
..Frontline States was a group of the presidents of Tanzania[the chairman],Zambia, and Botswana. These countries were openly supporting armed struggle against colonialism in Southern Africa. Later on this group expanded to include Mozambique,Angola,Zimbabwe,and Namibia, once those countries were liberated.
..SADC was established in the 80s way after OAU Liberation Committee and Frontline States. After South Africa independence it was proposed that the "protocal the Frontline States" be incorporated with SADC and that is how the SADC defence organ was established.
..Now, for a long time SADC defence organ was an autonomous entity and was not headed by the Chairman of SADC. The defence organ was chaired by the longest serving President among member states, and that is how Robert Mugabe ended up sending SADC troops to fight along side Congo-Kinshasa army without consulting Nelson Mandela who was SADC chairman the time.
..Samahani nisikuchoshe sana, I hope utakuwa umenielewa pamoja na Kiingereza chetu Watanzania. Sasa hivyo ndivyo Tanzania tulivyoingia kwenye SADC na kwenye mkataba wa ulinzi wa SADC.
NB:
..Why is Tanzania reluctant to sign East African Community Defence protocal???
..U have to take into consideration all the confusion that happened during the war in Congo-Kinshasa.
..Tanzania was put in a very bad situation considering that we are members of both SADC and EAC.
..Tanzania had military instructors in Congo Kinshasa and they had to return home once Congo was invaded by Uganda and Rwanda.
Nairoberry
JF-Expert Member
- Mar 7, 2012
- 933
- 525
tanzania should just choose one eac or sadc not put two legs in different roads like the proverbial nyangau that split into two coz of tamaa
Kabaridi
JF-Expert Member
- Nov 15, 2011
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@Joka Kuu,
I read you loud and clear! The real struggle was not to block Mugabe from sending troops to DRC, but to rally the EU and the US to lift sanctions against him and engage in constructive dialogue. All this in the pretext of sound macro-economic reforms, reduced inflation rates, and budget deficits. Under the chairmanship of Mkapa, leaders signed a Charter on Fundamental Social Rights and a Mutual Defence Pact.
SADC: Mutual defence pact to strengthen military cooperation
The plan proposes specific strategies and activities for achieving the objectives as laid out in the defense protocol, including military intervention in defense of a fellow member state that may be under external aggression.
IMHO: I do not see any challenge on this pact, but it is the reverse when it comes to EAC mutal defence pact. This is just petty politics arm-twisting
Hapo kwenye red............
1.You view Mugabe sending troops to Kinsasha in contempt, while TZ has a history of invading Uganda under the watchful auspices of Mw. Julius Nyerere. In light of Mugabes invasion of Kinsasha, the then chariman Benjamin Mkapa would have reviewed the SADC protocol "if a threat was ignited by a member state". That is why indifference is being spotted in the EAC matter.
2. The kagera war put TZ in a very bad situation and under chairmanship of Mkapa in SADC you did not consider history while signing the defence decleration in Blantyre and Dar-es-Salaam respectively.
3. In light of this inquisition, Tanzania must Know that for decades there has been relative peace in EA save for Somalia, Sudan, and South sudan, which are not members of the EAC (or they have recently requested an application for membership). All other members (KE, UG, BU, DJ) No one has ever provoked any member within the EAC community.
4. This callous and stubborn attitude Tanzania is showing when it comes to decleration of pacts is the main impediment that is slowing regional peace and stabilty.
5. Conclusion. TZ should remain at SADC, because they want to work in a vacuum like lone-rangers, highly interested in regional clout than regional security.
Kabaridi,
..Thank u for ur response.
..there was already a long history of military cooperation among SADC member states way before the security protocal was brought to the table. That was I was trying to show in my previous post.
..Frelimo trained in Nachingwea-- Tanzania, and our soldiers fought and some of them died inside Mozambique. Also Mozambique is the only African country that sent he soldiers to fight alongside Tanzanians when we had to remove Iddi Amin of Uganda.
..Zimbabweans were trained in Mgagao, Pan African Congress[PAC] of South Africa were trained in Dakawa, Swapo of Namibia and ANC were in Kongwa,..
..sasa hapa kwenye EAC we know that recently Kenya and Uganda were fighting over Migingo. Also Uganda and Rwanda are known to have turned against each other when they invaded Congo-Kinshasa which is a SADC member. I believe incidences like those make Tanzania reluctant to sign the EAC defence protocal.
NB:
..I believe Mugabe did the right thing to send SADC troops to Congo-Kinshasa. There r ppl u criticized his actions but in a long run he has been proven right.
..What Mkapa did, in abandoning Kabila and the ppl of Congo when they needed us, was very wrong. It is even worse that Tanzania never condemned attrocities that were committed by Rwanda and Uganda when they invaded Congo.
..Thank u for ur response.
..there was already a long history of military cooperation among SADC member states way before the security protocal was brought to the table. That was I was trying to show in my previous post.
..Frelimo trained in Nachingwea-- Tanzania, and our soldiers fought and some of them died inside Mozambique. Also Mozambique is the only African country that sent he soldiers to fight alongside Tanzanians when we had to remove Iddi Amin of Uganda.
..Zimbabweans were trained in Mgagao, Pan African Congress[PAC] of South Africa were trained in Dakawa, Swapo of Namibia and ANC were in Kongwa,..
..sasa hapa kwenye EAC we know that recently Kenya and Uganda were fighting over Migingo. Also Uganda and Rwanda are known to have turned against each other when they invaded Congo-Kinshasa which is a SADC member. I believe incidences like those make Tanzania reluctant to sign the EAC defence protocal.
NB:
..I believe Mugabe did the right thing to send SADC troops to Congo-Kinshasa. There r ppl u criticized his actions but in a long run he has been proven right.
..What Mkapa did, in abandoning Kabila and the ppl of Congo when they needed us, was very wrong. It is even worse that Tanzania never condemned attrocities that were committed by Rwanda and Uganda when they invaded Congo.
Don't forget Kenya's war in Somalia. Also the most likely next member of EAC, South Sudan have already begun fighting Sudan.
TZ needs to be very careful.
Alpha,
..tatizo ndugu zetu wa Kenya wanafikiri tulipovunja EAC basi Tanzania ilikuwa in total isolation na hatukuwa tukishirikiana na taifa lolote lile.
..i am very suprised when some of our friends frm Kenya suggest that Tanzania ijitoe kwenye SADC. WHY? How come Kenya inapigania kuongeza members wengine kama Somalia and Southern Sudan?? Kwanini Tanzania isiwe encouraged kuwa the bridge btn SADC and EAC??
Bukyanagandi
JF-Expert Member
- Jun 24, 2009
- 11,061
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Mr. Moyo, sometimes you tend to shoot from the hip everything TANZANIAN! I hope the above post serves you RIGHT - nakutania tu don't take it seriously.
Kabaridi
JF-Expert Member
- Nov 15, 2011
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Why do you think Kenya is addding more members? I know Somalia S.sudan's application is for regional representation. hapo kwenye green, you want to assume so many positions by merging or bridging.
South Sudan and Sudan have began fighting, but DRC have also began fighting. If, your are careful about EAC explain the military activity in DRC.
When a SADC member advocates for military action is it Ok? You can sit on one table with Angola who are militarily active @ Bamako, but when it comes to EAC, the role of Uganda quickly comes to your defence. What is Angola's heady presence in Bamako fulfiling @ ECOWAS? Uganda and Rwanda's military invasion in Kinsasha was coined to play the same role like Tanzanias invasion in Uganda. Your excuses on delaying in signing does not add up.
Bukyanagandi
JF-Expert Member
- Jun 24, 2009
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La kwanza, nilisha sema humu Tanzania sio koloni la Kenya kwa nini kila wakati mnajifanya ma-headmaster wa nchi za Africa Mashariki, nani kawapa mandate ya ku-bulldoze members wengine? Tanzania ni nchi huru atuwezi kuingia kichwa kichwa kwenye mambo ambayo yamekaa ndio sivyo hili tuwa-please Wakenya, mnataka kutuletea mambo ya neo-coloniolism zama hizi ambazo dunia nzima watu wamekwisha elimika!
Read my lips "TANZANIA ina uwezo wa kuamua tutakalo bila ya kuwa-pressurised na watu waliojaa hila za unyonyaji na kutaka nchi nyingine zipigane a proxy war on their behalf", labda nikuhulize kitu: hivi kwa nini Kenya sasa hivi inakazania mambo ya "defence pact" kuna nini?
La pili, ebu niambie kwa nini unaonekana una hasira sana na Tanzania, huna aibu kwa kuandika mambo ya uzushi tu ambayo uyajuhi vizuri, kwa mfano: unawezaje kusema Tanzania ilivamia Uganda! Get your facts right buddy-unajua nini kuhusu historia ya vita vya Kagera? wewe lengo lako ni kutaka ku-sway watu waione Tanzania ni nchi korofi hisio taka ushirikiano na wenzake mpaka unafikia hatua ya kusema tunaonekana kama a lone ranger.
Usilete latent hatred zako kuhusu TANZANIA ukifikili utapata public sympathy/support yoyote, wana JF ni watu weledi awawezi kuyumbishwa na skewed mawazo yako kuhusu TANZANIA. Item No.4 and 5 shows you are a funny character, may I remind you politely that what Tanzanian likes/dislikes is non of your lookout.
Bukyanagandi
JF-Expert Member
- Jun 24, 2009
- 11,061
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Mkuu usipoteza muda kujibizana na jamaa huyu.
Kabaridi
JF-Expert Member
- Nov 15, 2011
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Tunataka kuleta picha ya kweli maana kusema Kenya and EAC are war-minded ni hoja halina uzito. Kwa Sasa Mkataba wa ulinzi unapigiwa to mac-timing by excuses tu eti vita. Michezo za kisiasa na phsychological games ndizo zinaonekana wazi. This pacts are being signed for the future to avert any un-natural human-being kutumia uongozi kuenda vitani bila fikra. kwanza kwenye SADC, Ikiwa Angola wametuma majeshi Bamako, nani kawatuma? kwa long-term Afadhali mweke stand yenu muko SADc. Muwache kuhudhuria mikutano za EAC, na HQ na kamati wahusika iende Bujumbura. mwajidanganya wenyewe. Kweli mtaka vyote hukos vyote.
Kabaridi
JF-Expert Member
- Nov 15, 2011
- 2,023
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While ignoring the bad and old cancer "politics", kenya has the best diplomatic relations in the continent. You have localised everything even language which makes you fail the amiability test.
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