Who "Played" Nyerere?

Mp Kalix2 said:

And to at this moment that’s why many people still ask questions that Sokoine Car accident and latter on his Death has something to do with master plot of the same power struggles?

And big question is Whose behind this?

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nyerere ndo muhusika wa yote hayo, taifa linalipia madhambi alotenda nyerere.

Jasusi said:

Kikwete won the presidency by bribery. I am told the night before the nomination, Rostum Aziz approached Mkapa and offered him a $3million bribery to ensure Kikwete is nominated. Mkapa played with the nominating process to ensure Kikwete becomes president, and like Judas, up to this day he is "ashamed" of himself. I hope he clarifies this in his soon to be published book.

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Jasusi unataka kutuambia raisi alikula rushwa? Kama ni hivyo, nani atazuia rushwa nchini?

Mwenyezimungu amuongezee adhabu kali sana! AMEEN!!!

Rev. Kishoka said:

I am going back in times...back to 1992 after Zanzibar declaration and later on Vyama vingi... And then mkutano Mkuu wa CCM 1995 which picked Benjamin Mkapa as CCM candidate...

Who did what?

Who wrote the master plot that fooled the genius himself and opened the doors of chaos and power struggles that we are seeing today?

Just curious....

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tutasema ukweli hata kama unauma. haya ndio yaliomponza nyerere na taifa kwa ujumla.
mkapa alipitishwa ili akatetee haya. matokeo yalioneka st.joseph london. na wazungu kuanza kuvamia migodi kama nguruwe.

MwanaFalsafa1 said:

I believe, and this is just me, that Sokoine would have been the best successor of Nyerere. Sadly he died or was killed, who knows? The second person Mwalimu tried to prepare was Salim Ahmed Salim but he was also denied in his own land (Zanzibar) due to the fact that he wasn't a Shirazi. I don't claim to be an expert but I think Mkapa was his last attempt at producing a successor but we all know how that turned out. So in this I agree with the member (or members) who rightly pointed out that he should have concentrated on building institutions rather than grooming an heir becomes honestly speaking anyone could pretend to be a follower if they felt it would lead to being the successor.

Mwalimu realized his mistakes towards the end, if one wants proof of this they should refer to his speech on Labor Day in 1995, he talks bluntly about his own mistakes and the path of his successors. Sadly by the time he realized this it was too late. He no longer wielded any power since he was no longer president or party chairman. The only weapon he had left was his voice which was sadly silenced in 1999, whether naturally or otherwise....

To those who blame Nyerere, I understand your position. I know we humans a naturally selfish creatures who tend to look at how a person has individually helped us rather than looking at the larger picture. That's why there are some who blame Nyerere for not favoring their religion, tribe or region. They look at things through the prism of what did he do for me personally. BUT if you are an intelligent human being you realize that Nyerere was last in power in 1985 (28 years ago) and has been dead for the past 14 years. Hence nothing can solely be blamed on him since we have had ample time to curve a different path if we so wished to (however we Tanzanians are known more for our words rather than our actions). It seems to me that their are some people here who will teach their grandchildren to blame everything on Nyerere who then in 50 years time will be blaming their current situation on a man who was last in power before they were even alive.

As a country we have made plenty of mistakes, but no success comes without a few missteps along the way. Read the story of any successful person or idea and behind it you will find more stories of failure rather than success. We have gotten to this point but it will be a shame if our children and grandchildren will also sit down and blame Nyerere.

The bottom line is this. If we want to make change we have to sacrifice, maybe even a lot. Most people understand we need to sacrifice. So what is hindering change is not that we do not know what we need to do but rather that there is nobody willing to do it. This goes back to my previous point of selfishness. Everybody understands that as a country we need to sacrifice but no one is willing to be affected by those sacrifices personally. This is why we have reached a point where we only talk about change but nothing gets done.

Lastly let me just say this. Nyerere is DEAD. No stones we cast on him personally affect him. He is in another realm and is no longer affected or influenced by the events or the time and space we who are alive occupy. We can choose to continue to blame him forever or realize that our future are in our hands and not the hands of the dead.

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MwanaFalsafa1, you made an excellent, unified and cohesive analysis. Just to summarize it if you will not mind,
1.Mwl. Nyerere set his expectations on his successor (s) which they did not work.
2. Mwl. Nyerere realized that whom he expected to be good leaders, they turned oppositely.
3. The negative impacts of the leadership touch every Tanzanian, and thus, many Tanzanians blame Mwl. in all poorly developed aspects.
4.You reminded us that mistakes is a part of life. Let us fix our problems rather than pointing fingers to anyone for a future generation.
5. Blaming or complaining means we need changes. We need a leader to engineer and lead changes in economic, academic and political institutions
6. Let stop pointing our fingers to Mwl. Nyerere because it will not bring changes in economic, academic and political institutions.

Question to all members:
Is this a reason for Hon. Robert Mugabe, President of Zimbabwe, to remain in power until now?
Just curious!

AZIMIO halikuwa sambamba na mahitaji ya watu ya wakati.

Nchi ambayo social security iko largely family based haiwezi kuendeshwa katika masharti ya AZIMIO la ARUSHA.

AZIMIO ndio ugomvi wa Mwalimu na "wenzake".

Kwa vile Mwalimu alitoa adhabu kali kwa wapinga AZIMIO, basi nao waliamua kukaa kimya huku wakijua kuwa AZIMIO linapaswa kufutwa.

Baada ya CCM kuamua kuwa itakubaliana na uwepo wa mfumo wa vyama vingi nchini. Baadhi ya wajumbe walitoa angalizo.

Katika angalizo hilo walionya kuwa iwapo CCM itabaki na AZIMIO in its original version na kikaja chama kinachotoa sera tofauti na AZIMIO, basi chama hicho kitaiangusha CCM.

Kwa vile viongozi wengi waliamini kuwa AZIMIO halifai, hoja hiyo ikapata uzito.

Mwalimu aliambiwa kuwa AZIMO linapaswa "kuboreshwa ili liendane na wakati", akakubali.

Kilichofuata ni Mwongozo wa Zanzibar.

Mwongozo wa Zanzibar uliboresha AZIMIO "kihuni". Nasema kihuni kwa sababu kuna mambo mengi ya msingi ambayo uliyaacha very vague, kitu ambacho kiliruhusu mianya ya kukiuka amisingi yote ya AZIMIO.

Mwalimu aliona hilo, lakini it was too late. Kiasi cha uungwaji mkono wa Mwongozo wa Zanzibar ndani ya wajumbe wa Halmashauri Kuu ya CCM kilikuwa ni kikubwa mno kiasi kwamba Mwalimu angeupinga ingekuwa ni political suicide. Mwalimu akauacha Mwongozo.

Nini alipaswa kufanya Mwalimu?
Lipo jibu kwenye hili. Tutajadili kadri siku zinavyosonga...

FaizaFoxy said:

Hivi Tanzania bila kusaidiwa kutoka nje ina nini zaidi, inachoweza kusema cha kujivunia kujiendesha yenyewe?

Hata sindano ya kushonea hatujuwi kutengeneza bila msaada wa nje, hivi mnataka kusema nini?

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there you are ! Sasa kama mnajua hayo kwanini msimsaidie kikwete kuachana na fikra kwamba bila kuombaomba nchi haiwezi kujiendesha ? MNAOMBA HADI MATUNDU YA VYOO ?

Erythrocyte said:

there you are ! Sasa kama mnajua hayo kwanini msimsaidie kikwete kuachana na fikra kwamba bila kuombaomba nchi haiwezi kujiendesha ? MNAOMBA HADI MATUNDU YA VYOO ?

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Kwanini iwe kuomba-omba vitu vyenye manufaa iwe ni muhali? Mbona USA wanaomba mkopo kwa China?

Unaweza kuomba Wataalaam wa Kilimo.
Unaweza kuomba Wataalaam wa ufugaji.
Unaweza kuomba wataalaam wa uchumi.
Unaweza kuomba wataalaam wa reli.
Unaweza kuomba wataalaam wa barabara.
na, na, na, na,

Kuomba haimaanishi unachoomba lazima upewe bure. Hata ukienda dukani kununuwa sukari unasema naomba sukari kila moja.

Ukiomba Wataalaam wa barabara leo hii utasema "Tunaomba mtupatie watalaam 6 wa fani tofauti zinazohusiana na utengenezaji wa barabara bora za kisasa. Tukipatiwa wataalaam hao tupo tayari kuwalipa ......... kwa fani hiiii na kiasi fulani kwa fani hiii...

Huo ndio ustaarabu.

Lakini leo Watanzania tunajidai tunaweza na wakati hatuwezi chochote. Bila kushirikiana na mataifa ya nje, sahau mafanikio ya aina yeyote ile.

oopss, na ikiwa kwa wasomi wetu tunawategemea kuko hivi: https://www.jamiiforums.com/jukwaa-la-elimu-education-forum/538894-vyoo-vya-udsm-srs-ni-aibu.html
Kwanini tusiombe "matundu ya vyoo"?

Rev. Kishoka said:

I am going back in times...back to 1992 after Zanzibar declaration and later on Vyama vingi... And then mkutano Mkuu wa CCM 1995 which picked Benjamin Mkapa as CCM candidate...
Who did what?
Who wrote the master plot that fooled the genius himself and opened the doors of chaos and power struggles that we are seeing today?
Just curious....

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Rev. Kishoka, to answer your question one needs to go back farther than 1992...twenty years to be specific. Very early after the Arusha declaration, Mwalimu realized his first mistake...underrating the determination and strength of his adversaries. This was his mistake number one and very soon he realized that there were forces that would stop at nothing to sabotage his dreamchild the Arusha Declaration. He learned that he was surrounded by pretenders and so as the days moved on he had to come face to face with the bitter truth...without him, Arusha Declaration was doomed.

His disappointment drove him to start toying with the idea of stepping down in 1975 but TANU was not ready to let him go and this really troubled him. Reluctantly he succumbed to their wishes with one condition, that he would serve only another one term up to 1980 and challenged TANU to start grooming a successor. It was during this period that the idea of uniting the two parties TANU and ASP as a means of neutralizing the stalemate faced within the leadership arose. It was also the period when he started to see someone called Edward Sokoine from a new light and realized his potential and dedication.

But fate had its own plans and it came from a completely unexpected angle, the 1978 invasion of Tanzania by a ruthless dictator and President of a neighboring country, Idi Amin Dada. The consequent war made it impossible for Mwalimu to step down in 1980 and so delayed Sokoine's ascent to power as the 2nd President of Tanzania. A year later the dormant forces waiting for Nyerere exit and sure his "kung'atuka" in 1985 made sure Sokoine would never see the insides of Ikulu. Mwalimu's second miscalculation was of his own making...handpicking as his successor an unknown Ali Hasan Mwinyi.

Mwalimu saw in Mwinyi's some degree of humility and, coupled with his having stepped down as Minister to take responsibility for the actions of those under him, would cover for his weaknesses. But carpetbaggers saw in Mwinyi an opportunity to turn back the clock to pre-Arusha Declaration days and life was turned into survival for the fittest, everything "rhusa". Mwalimu could not do anything about this but the wind of change that was sweeping the world's political landscape gave him some hope of picking up the pieces. But fate was not yet finished with him and this time it came in the form of Augustino Lyatonga Mrema.

Mwalimu did everything he could to stop Mrema from ascending to power and only heaven knows what it could have been like under Mrema...me? I still shudder at the thought and how hard I try to accept Mrema I find I cant...anyway Mwalimu won and Mkapa was elected President. Mkapa knew from the very start that he would never have become president of anything but for Mwalimu and for a time he tried to keep the vultures at bay. Yeah, he tried but like all who reap where they never sowed, he soon became overwhelmed and could not tell whether he was coming or going...luckily the pillar, like a shadow, still lurked behind him.

But soon the honeymoon ended as again Mwalimu tried to correct his gravest mistake ever but little did he know that this time he was dealing with the vultures that had waited for so long that their patience had run out. The pillar had to be uprooted, history had to be rewritten and the four decade legacy completely erased from the face of the nation. Mwalimu's voice was to be silenced for ever and a campaign was waged from all fronts; his character to be destroyed, his honesty tarnished, his loyalty soiled, his leadership questioned, his religious beliefs blemished, his image stained and his vision tainted.

Rev. Kishoka, who played Nyerere? Read between the lines.

peri said:

nyerere ndo muhusika wa yote hayo, taifa linalipia madhambi alotenda nyerere.

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Mtakufa kwa chuki za kidini

FaizaFoxy said:

Soma kuhusu Botswana halafu uone kama waliji "isolate" walivyopata Uhuru. Halafu endelea kusoma kuhusu economy yao kama waliindesha kama Nyerere. Hakukuwa na ujamaa wa kijinga huko. Never.

Isitoshe, wako million 2 kama vile wakazi wa Kinondoni pekee.

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Kuwa milioni 2 siyo kigezo cha kukubali kwamba wao wamefanikiwa kwa sababu hiyo tu. Kuhusu ujamaa wa kijinga unao sema wewe, siyo sababu ya sisi kukosa maendeleo. Je kwa nini viongozi wenzake walimsaliti katika azimio la Arusha? Hiyo yote ni ubinafsi ambao uluikuwa unawasukuma.

Rushwa rushwa mbona imekuwa ya kawaida sana tangia Mwalimu Nyerere hatoke madarakani? Kila kitu kimekufa, hakuna hata kimoja ambacho tunaweza sema kimebakia na misingi ya udugu. Madini ya Botswana ndiyo yamewasaidia kupata Elimu bora, miundombinu na matibabu safi je wewe unalakujivunia?

It is very amazing to see the relig5ius tones being inserted in most discussions!

If one would read carefully what I have written and inquire with open mindedness and no the closed perception of what my personal opinions on Kikwete, they may see a change of tide and they may need to look beyond the comparison between Nyerere and Kikwete.

I did not ask this to re-ignite the never ending talks about who was better between Nyerere and his successor, I simply asked what and who was motive behind his miscalculation in 1995!

Now if you can't dig deep and ask the directionality of the question, you will succumb into the "norm" of Nyerere versus Kikwete !

Rev. Kishoka said:

It is very amazing to see the relig5ius tones being inserted in most discussions!

If one would read carefully what I have written and inquire with open mindedness and no the closed perception of what my personal opinions on Kikwete, they may see a change of tide and they may need to look beyond the comparison between Nyerere and Kikwete.

I did not ask this to re-ignite the never ending talks about who was better between Nyerere and his successor, I simply asked what and who was motive behind his miscalculation in 1995!

Now if you can't dig deep and ask the directionality of the question, you will succumb into the "norm" of Nyerere versus Kikwete !

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Mchungaji!

The little Tanzanian know about religion the greater the rift we will have in our country, nowdays there is no discussion without including region issue, fun enough they are so many in JF. Perhaps a mass campign is needed to ensure Tanzanian focus on religous division is reduced.

FaizaFoxy said:

Nyerere had no vision, he was fooling himself.

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In other words you mean HE was THE FOOL?

Udadisi said:

dkt sas

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kama mawazo yangu....you are ----ing right!

mag3 said:

to answer your question one needs to go back farther than 1992...twenty years to be specific. Very early after the Arusha declaration, Mwalimu realized his first mistake...underrating the determination and strength of his adversaries. This was his mistake number one and very soon he realized that there were forces that would stop at nothing to sabotage his dreamchild the Arusha Declaration. He learned that he was surrounded by pretenders and so as the days moved on he had to come face to face with the bitter truth...without him, Arusha Declaration was doomed.

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Haiwezekani kuwa nyerere aliona kuwa falsafa yake inaelekea kushindwa hivyo akatafuta wa kuwatupia lawama?
Kuna kitu ninajifunza hapa (tafadhali ukiweza jibu maswali )

Mag3 said:

His disappointment drove him to start toying with the idea of stepping down in 1975 but TANU was not ready to let him go and this really troubled him. Reluctantly he succumbed to their wishes with one condition, that he would serve only another one term up to 1980 and challenged TANU to start grooming a successor.

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Je? haikuwa blackmail au muendelezo wa kuiona falsafa yake haitafanikiwa?

Mag3 said:

But fate had its own plans and it came from a completely unexpected angle, the 1978 invasion of Tanzania by a ruthless dictator and President of a neighboring country, Idi Amin Dada. The consequent war made it impossible for Mwalimu to step down in 1980 ..

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Bado mijadala inaendelea kuhusu "uvamizi" wa Amin!

Wengine wanaona nyerere alishavipigia mahesabu vita na Uganda ya Amin kabla ya "uvamizi"

mavumbi said:

In other words you mean HE was THE FOOL?

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He was too smart to be fooling himself. You see how smart he was?

Kwi kwi kwi teh teh teh!

FaizaFoxy said:

He was too smart to be fooling himself. You see how smart he was?

Kwi kwi kwi teh teh teh!

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Pedagogist: Perhaps he fooled ALL Tanzanians to a certain point! Although at the end, the saying: You can't fool ALL the people ALL the Time came True, and He went away to die.....

Iko haja ya kuutazama upya mfumo wetu wa kuzalisha wasomi.Wakati wa ukoloni watoto wa machifu na watu ambao ni vibaraka wa ukoloni ndio waliopewa nafasi kusoma.elimu ilitumika kutengeneza tabaka la vibaraka watakaotumika na wakoloni bila ulazima wa wenyewe kuwepo.huu ni ukoloni mbaya zaidi.Mnakuwa mnatawaliwa bila kujijua.Nyerere alikuwa mmoja wa watu kutoka koo za kichifu aliyeingizwa kwenye mfumo lakini aliuasi kwa kutetea maslahi ya wengi.Alijiona mwafrika zaidi ya "mzungu mweusi".Hapa ndipo utata na viongozi wenzie ulipoanza.Walimuona muasi wa "wateule" na kuamua kupambana nae.Hata hivyo kwa miaka mingi walimshindwa kutokana na "nguvu ya umma" kuwa upande wake.Wakaona njia pekee ni kudhoofisha sera zake na uongozi wake.Midomo yao ilikuwa pamoja naye lakini matendo yakawa tofauti.Watu hawa ndio leo hii baadhi wapo hata humu jamvini wakiwa bize kuharamisha sera za Mwalimu kwa kutazama matokeo yake bila kutuambia kama tatizo lilikuwa ni sera au utekelezaji.Wapo na wale waliopewa madaraka na "wateule hawa" na kwa tamaa ya material na uungu mtu(sifa za kijinga) waliyofundishwa shuleni wanautumikia mfumo kwa kuumiza wengine bila kuelewa.Kosa kubwa alilofanya Mwalimu ni kushindwa kuugeuza mfumo wetu wa elimu utuzalishie wasomi wazalendo badala ya vibaraka.Mfumo wetu wa elimu unazalisha watu wanaoamini life is material and a "big name".Ukiwa na pesa na mali nyingi basi wewe ndio kila kitu.Hawa ni waumini wa materialism na kujikweza na yule mzalishaji wa material na anayewapa sifa ndiye mungu wao.Haishangazi kuwaona wakiwaabudu wazungu.Haishangazi kuwaona wakiunda sheria za nchi kubeba wawekezaji wa kigeni kuliko wa ndani.Haishangazi kuwaona kila siku wakikimbilia New York,London,Beijing na kwingineko kuambiwa nini cha kufanya badala ya kukimbilia kwa wapiga kura wao.Haishangazi kuwaona wakiisaliti nchi yao kwa zawadi na tuzo zisizochangia chochote katika kurutubisha ubinadamu wao.Haishangazi kuwaona wakiivuruga nchi yao wenyewe kwa mafundisho ya mdomoni ya masheikh wa kiarabu na mapadre wa kizungu ilhali hata hivyo vitabu vya dini zilizotoka huko huko havielekezi hivyo.Hawa ndio makuwadi wa soko huria,waumini wa materialism na sifa za kijinga wanaozalishwa na mfumo wa elimu tuliorithi toka kwa wakoloni.Namshukuru Nyerere.Pamoja na kuangushwa,genius huyu alijua kuwa kaangushwa.Alijua peke yake hawezi kupambana na "wateule" hawa wenye sapoti ya mataifa makubwa ya nje.Alituachia mbinu.Alilijua tatizo la elimu na kulisema."Elimu bora ni ile inayomfanya mtu kuwa na manufaa kwa umma wote na si watu wake binafsi".Tumechukua hatua gani kuzalisha wasomi wa aina hii?"Pasipo na tumaini hapawezi kuwa na amani.Nitawashangaa watanzania waliokosa tumaini wakiendelea kukaa kimya.Watakuwa wajinga".Hivi watanzania bado mna matumaini na viongozi wenu?Leo hii ukiwahoji hawa "wateule" watakuhalalishia matendo yao kwa mifano ya marekani,uingereza and the likes.Ukihoji ubinafsishaji watakuambia mbona na Marekani ni hivyo hivyo?sikilizeni enyi watz wenzangu,ulimwengu mzima uko katika hatari ya kuwa koloni la watu wachache hivi leo.hii ni global agenda.tunapoambiwa na marekani ni hivyo haihalalishi uzuri wa jambo.Sisi kama taifa ni lazima tutazame je,do we need this destiny?watakuja kuwaambia hamwezi kuchagua destiny yenu katika ulimwengu wa leo,i say no,we can choose our destiny lakini tunahitaji kuwa na viongozi wetu kwanza,tunahitaji ukombozi mpya.Tunahitaji kulikomboa tabaka la uongozi toka mikononi mwa vibaraka wa ukoloni mamboleo.Hatutaweza kuvumilia milele,tunavyozidi kuchelewa tunatafuta njia mbaya zaidi ya kuleta tumaini.Hatutaweza kuendelea kujifanya wajinga wakati tuna akili.Nyerere amekufa,maneno yake yanaishi,tuyatumie.