USA Presidential IQ Report

[bollywood]

The whole IQ thing is a fuzzy attempt at quantifying that which is undefined, or even undefinable.

Debunking Intelligence Experts: Walter Lippmann Speaks Out

That article has been refuted with article below. There is nothing fuzzy about IQ.

In Defense of IQ Testing: Lewis M. Terman Replies to Critics

The Mismeasure of Man

IQ - The Mismeasure of Man

Jay Gould's text has also been refuted with article

Arthur Jensen Replies to Steven Jay Gould

 

[Kiranga]

Debunking Intelligence Experts: Walter Lippmann Speaks Out

That article has been refuted with article below. There is nothing fuzzy about IQ.

In Defense of IQ Testing: Lewis M. Terman Replies to Critics



Jay Gould's text has also been refuted with article

Arthur Jensen Replies to Steven Jay Gould

This stuff is nothing more than thinly disguised modern day eugenics.

First thing first.

What is Intelligence?

 

[bollywood]

This stuff is nothing more than thinly disguised modern day eugenics.

First thing first.

What is Intelligence?

A mostly biological distinguishing characteristic between human beings, between human beings and other mammals, etc. It determines our ability to innovate, solve problems, think critically and we usually rank intelligence based on abilities. For example, Albert Einstein would be considered very intelligent due to his work in science. Similarly, Isaac Newton would be considered very intelligent based on his work with Calculus, Physics etc. On the opposite end of the spectrum, a mentally retarded person would be considered less intelligent. Most people fall in between ends of the intelligence spectrum.

 

[Kiranga]

A mostly biological distinguishing characteristic between human beings, between human beings and other mammals, etc. It determines our ability to innovate, solve problems, think critically and we usually rank intelligence based on abilities. For example, Albert Einstein would be considered very intelligent due to his work in science. Similarly, Isaac Newton would be considered very intelligent based on his work with Calculus, Physics etc. On the opposite end of the spectrum, a mentally retarded person would be considered less intelligent. Most people fall in between ends of the intelligence spectrum.

This is not a definition. It is an attempt at a decription that cannot even begin right.

By beginning with "A mostly biological" you undermine your entire attempt.

You can't even define intelligence yet you want to tell us you can measure it?

 

[MaxShimba]

You must be joking. US presidents include the founding fathers who actually founded the nation. To say Barack Obama is smarter than say Thomas Jefferson or James Madison or George Washington is truly a laugh.

How impossible is that? You are telling me that there is no body in the USA who is more intelligent that those guys? You must be kidding me.

I don't see any evidence to support those IQ scores

How will you be able to see that, since there is no body in the USA who is more intelligent that Thomas Jefferson or James Madison or George Washington. You have already ipso facto yourself.

 

[bollywood]

This is not a definition. It is an attempt at a decription that cannot even begin right.

By beginning with "A mostly biological" you undermine your entire attempt.

Mostly biological since environmental factors play a role albeit a tiny one. If you grew up in the same household as Einstein, attended the same school, essentially copy everything he did in his life, you wouldn't necessarily be a brilliant scientist. On other hand intelligence can be cultivated and nartured in the right environment to realize its full potential (e.g. gifted children programs). But the biological ingredients have to be there already.

You can't even define intelligence yet you want to tell us you can measure it?

The definition is given. If you need me to dumb it down, let me know and I'll consider.

 

[bollywood]

How impossible is that? You are telling me that there is no body in the USA who is more intelligent that those guys? You must be kidding me.

I am sure there are smarter people than the founding fathers but Obama is not one of those people. When you say Obama is the smartest American president then you are also saying he is smarter than the founding fathers but there is no evidence to support that. That was my point.

 

[Kiranga]

Mostly biological since environmental factors play a role albeit a tiny one. If you grew up in the same household as Einstein, attended the same school, essentially copy everything he did in his life, you wouldn't necessarily be a brilliant scientist. On other hand intelligence can be cultivated and nartured in the right environment to realize its full potential (e.g. gifted children programs). But the biological ingredients have to be there already.



The definition is given. If you need me to dumb it down, let me know and I'll consider.

If you only addressed the biological part, and not the environmental part in your original definition, then you have to agree that at best it was incomplete.

You can't dumb this down any further, which is exactly what the problem is.

Let me ask you a question.

If a scientist invents a new weapon of mass destruction, or breaks every bank's encryption system, and wreak havoc by having the entire world as his hostage, causing so much pain sorrow and death, breaking the rule of law and order the entire world.

Is that scientist intelligent or not?

 

[Kiranga]

I am sure there are smarter people than the founding fathers but Obama is not one of those people. When you say Obama is the smartest American president then you are also saying he is smarter than the founding fathers but there is no evidence to support that. That was my point.

The founding fathers can be overrated.

 

[MaxShimba]

I am sure there are smarter people than the founding fathers but Obama is not one of those people. When you say Obama is the smartest American president then you are also saying he is smarter than the founding fathers but there is no evidence to support that. That was my point.

Can you tell me how? I don't take vain words, give us some empirical evidences.

 

[bollywood]

If you only addressed the biological part, and not the environmental part in your original definition, then you have to agree that at best it was incomplete.

You can't dumb this down any further, which is exactly what the problem is.

Let me ask you a question.

If a scientist invents a new weapon of mass destruction, or breaks every bank's encryption system, and wreak havoc by having the entire world as his hostage, causing so much pain sorrow and death, breaking the rule of law and order the entire world.

Is that scientist intelligent or not?

Yes he or she is intelligent. Not all intelligent people are moral people. In fact you can be intelligent and downright evil. Have you ever heard of Ted Kaczynski?

 

[bollywood]

The founding fathers can be overrated.

How so? Can you explain?

 

[Kiranga]

Yes he or she is intelligent. Not all intelligent people are moral people. In fact you can be intelligent and downright evil. Have you ever heard of Ted Kaczynski?

If Ted Kaczynski is so intelligent, why is he serving a life sentence with no possibility of parole now?

The fact that the "genius" is not innovative enough to achieve what he wants without harming others and garnering ill will would question highly his intelligence.

Your definition of intelligence is very narrow indeed, and by your definition, a Watson like IBM invention would be considered intelligent.

Is the Papua New Guinean who scores very low on a typical western IQ test because it is alien and irrelevant to his environment (but who can hunt and track animals impressively) less intelligent than the Wall Street broker who scores very high in the typical western IQ test, but would not know how to adapt in the PN Guinea jungles?

How do you compare the IQs of someone who lived in the first half of the 20th century, when they had no internet and a lot of scientific innovations we take for granted today, with one who lived in the latter part of that century and the first years of the 21 century?

 

[Kiranga]

How so? Can you explain?

Take Thomas Jefferson, he of principal authorship of The Declaration of Independence fame, and "We the people" egalitarian blah blah, claiming all men to be equals while not only keeping slaves, but raping them and siring an entire branch of his family with them.

What an open hypocrite!

 

[bollywood]

If Ted Kaczynski is so intelligent, why is he serving a life sentence with no possibility of parole now?

The fact that the "genius" is not innovative enough to achieve what he wants without harming others and garnering ill will would question highly his intelligence.

Not really. He is intelligent but there are many other intelligent people so he can't outsmart everyone.

Your definition of intelligence is very narrow indeed, and by your definition, a Watson like IBM invention would be considered intelligent.

Watson is a product of an intelligent person. It has be programmed by an intelligent person to be of any use. It's hardware had to be invented by someone. Einstein on the other hand, was born with his abilities.

Is the Papua New Guinean who scores very low on a typical western IQ test because it is alien and irrelevant to his environment (but who can hunt and track animals impressively) less intelligent than the Wall Street broker who scores very high in the typical western IQ test, but would not know how to adapt in the PN Guinea jungles?

Lol. You do realize before modern society there were jungles or wilderness? People invent tools, machinery, to tame the wilderness. What you are describing is adapting to one's environment not intelligence. A gorilla can survive longer in the jungles of Africa than I or Bill Gates could but that does not make a gorilla smarter.

How do you compare the IQs of someone who lived in the first half of the 20th century, when they had no internet and a lot of scientific innovations we take for granted today, with one who lived in the latter part of that century and the first years of the 21 century?

By looking at accomplishments. What ISaac Newton did is still relevant today. In fact few today with internet can accomplish 0.0001% of Isaac Newton's accomplishment.

 

[bollywood]

Take Thomas Jefferson, he of principal authorship of The Declaration of Independence fame, and "We the people" egalitarian blah blah, claiming all men to be equals while not only keeping slaves, but raping them and siring an entire branch of his family with them.

What an open hypocrite!

Being hypocrite doesn't make you any more or less intelligent. Besides, Blacks at the time were considered less than human so he wasn't being a hypocrite. You could argue that he was wrong for considering Blacks to be less than human but you can't say he was hypocrite. Also, rape allegations against Thomas Jefferson have not been conclusively proven.

 

[bollywood]

Can you tell me how? I don't take vain words, give us some empirical evidences.

Evidence that the founding fathers were smart? Well, they founded a nation over 200 years ago with ideas that are still relevant today. They established a form of government that is relevant today. They defeated a superpower (Great Britain). The political system they put together allowed for a great economic success. In addition, many of the founding fathers were philosophers, inventors, thinkers etc. So in short, to say Obama is smarter than these people is laughable.

 

[Kiranga]

Being hypocrite doesn't make you any more or less intelligent. Besides, Blacks at the time were considered less than human so he wasn't being a hypocrite. You could argue that he was wrong for considering Blacks to be less than human but you can't say he was hypocrite. Also, rape allegations against Thomas Jefferson have not been conclusively proven.

Hahaha, you are arguing with DNA evidence spanning a wide branch of the Sally Hemmings side.

This guy couldn't even control his impulses and you want us to look up to him as this genius?

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

Evidence that the founding fathers were smart? Well, they founded a nation over 200 years ago with ideas that are still relevant today. They established a form of government that is relevant today. They defeated a superpower (Great Britain). The political system they put together allowed for a great economic success. In addition, many of the founding fathers were philosophers, inventors, thinkers etc. So in short, to say Obama is smarter than these people is laughable.

Obama is nowhere near the founding fathers.

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

You can't be serious. Obama if included was likely to beat them all.

This is laughable. Obama is not more intelligent than Bill Clinton.