The New Libya...

Cathode Rays said:

Libya left us with hundreds of lessons to learn

Hizi papara za kimapinduzi za silaha huacha makovu ambayo huwa ni magumu sana kutibu....huwa tunaangalia ushindi baada ya kumuondoa tunayetaka aondoke lakini inakuwa ngumu kwetu ku-predict kitakachofuata.

Nikifikiri kuwa pro-Gaddafi bado wapo active, plus madeni ya NATO plus ladha ya kushika mitutu kwa hao mambumbu wa NTC siioni Libya iliyosettle over the next few years.....

Hapa ndipo ninapoamini msemo wa MLK Jr "War is a poor chisel to carve out tomorrow"

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Mkuu vita wakati mwingine ni muhimu,lakini cha kujiuliza ni kuwa mnataka vita ili iweje?

Halafu mkajadili prons vs cons of the outcomes...Nakubaliana na MLK Jr, lakini si all the way.

Hiki hapa ndicho walichodhani watakipata walibya...

..."What makes it challenging is that right now the level of expectations of the people are very high, and that the government will deliver even more rather than less."

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However haya maneno yanaonyesha kuwa watakachokipata ni tofauti, hence msuguano,ninaamini Libya hakutakalika kwa muda mrefu sana given the fact kwamba pande zote zina silaha za kutosha na pengine sapoti ambazo ziko deep rooted on tribalism, just like we had predicted...Swali la kujiuliza,hiyo free market wanayoitaka ni yaaina gani isiyoprotect maslahi ya wananchi?

The challenge here is that this is a welfare state," Tarhouni says, he hopes the new Libya will feature a smaller government and a larger and freer private sector, but he has no illusions that it will be an easy transition.

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Hata hivyo wachambuzi wa mambo wanakwambia Libya ilikuwa hivi kbala ya sasa....

In their 2007 book on the Libyan economy, authors Waniss Otman and Erling Karlberg call the Libyan worker under Gadhafi "one of the most protected in the world,

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Tuendelee na mjadala...

mama D said:

walifkiri ni rahisi kiasi hicho kupewa support na Nato??
walishindwa hata kutumia akili ndogo tu kujiuliza hao nato walkua wanataka nini!!!
sasa wataimba na kucheza style zote!
pole kwa walokua wanawasupport waasi!

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walibya wangekuwa wanajua kiswahili ningewasikilizisha huu wimbo jamaa!

Mtoto Akililia Wembe - YouTube

Watamkumbuka yule mzee wa kiarabu waliemzalilisha pale kwenye boneti ya gari siku ile,kina anderson cooper wa cnn sasa hivi kimya hawasemi chochote kuhusu libya kama vile hakuna kinachoendelea,sasa wamehamishia camera zao syriaaaaaaaaa!wakimaliza hako wanahamia iran!

Hii Libya mpya wana kazi sana, ni kweli kabisa kuwa hakukuwepo na mapinduzi bali visasi tu,hapo chini nimeona kuna taarifa kuwa walichimbua na kuharibu hata makaburi ya ndugu na mama yake mzazi Gaddafi,for what reason kwenda kulipiza kwenye makaburi ya watu wasiokuwa na hatia?

Kama hakuna reconciliations,how is the new Libya going to move on?

Many Libyans fear civil war could flare between tribes and regions if the NTC does not reconcile the animosity created by the war and deal with the legacy of weapons piled up across the country.
"Libya is a tribal culture, and if they do not ensure reconciliation between the tribes, it will turn into a blood bath," said Abdullah, a young member of the Gaddadfa tribe.

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Wasipofanya hivyo,basi mzimu utawaandama...

"We lived in security with Muammar, we never thought we will end up living in a school," she said. "Look around you, do you see any food aid from organizations or any officials visiting us? No one."

The gruesome display of Gaddafi's body in a cold room in Misrata for four days has also infuriated members of his tribe and Sirte residents, as did the eventual decision to bury it in secret in the desert, rejecting a request from his tribesmen to take the body and inter it according to custom.

"Our tribal sheikhs went to Tripoli to take the body of Muammar. But then the Misrata people refused to hand him over. They said he is not to be buried among Muslims," said Hajj Abu Mohammed. "We even dug the grave here to bury him. But they said no."

Another resident standing nearby said: "Even when he is dead, they are scared of him. Maybe they fear there will be an uprising or something if people knew where he was buried."

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Wengine wanaonya kuhusu Libya yao mpya...Kwenda kuchimbuwa maiti za ndugu wa Gaddafi ndo ujenzi wa Taifa jipya la Libya?Mhn!

It will be blood feuds," he said, standing at a spot where locals said the graves of Gaddafi's mother and three other relatives had been emptied and desecrated by enemy fighters during the battle for Sirte that ended eight months of war.

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Bado kwenye Libya hii mpya,wameshaanza kumkumbuka Gaddafi na wengine wanamuenzi kama shujaa na aliyejitoa muhanga kwa Taifa lao...

Some still keep Gaddafi's photos tucked secretly among their belongings, while many refer to him as the "Martyr Leader" - in his prime he chose to call himself the Brother Leader.

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In Bani Walid, entire neighborhoods were covered with graffiti praising the deposed leader.
With NATO planning to end its Libya operations this week, global powers are concerned that these early bouts of violence could develop into a full-blown insurgency, and will be watching the NTC's actions closely over coming weeks.

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Habari zaidi hapo chini...

Gaddafi kin seethe, in test for new Libya | Reuters
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/11/01/us-libya-revenge-idUSTRE79U1OF20111101

jmushi1 said:

Mkuu vita wakati mwingine ni muhimu,lakini cha kujiuliza ni kuwa mnataka vita ili iweje?

Halafu mkajadili prons vs cons of the outcomes...Nakubaliana na MLK Jr, lakini si all the way.

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Kimsingi nakubaliana na wewe mkuu na unachoongea ndiyo mantiki yangu

Tatizo kubwa (ambalo pia naona ndilo lililotokea Libya na kwingine) ni kule kusahau ule msemo unaosema "The Means we use must be as pure as the ends we seek."

Cathode Rays said:

Kimsingi nakubaliana na wewe mkuu na unachoongea ndiyo mantiki yangu

Tatizo kubwa (ambalo pia naona ndilo lililotokea Libya na kwingine) ni kule kusahau ule msemo unaosema "The Means we use must be as pure as the ends we seek."

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Kweli mkuu,pia kwa kutumia ile falsafa ya "The end justifies the means" Bado haifanyi kazi kabisa kwenye issue hii...

Kwasababu binafsi naamini kuwa the end defininetly did not justify the means, it still is remained to be seen!

Some pessimists have speculated that Libya's future is prefigured by the chaotic violence that befell Somalia after the overthrow of dictator Mohamed Siad Barre in 1991, which has persisted ever since. But on a more hopeful note, it is worth observing that the fall of Qaddafi-unlike that of Hosni Mubarak, whose overthrow did not alter the power structure in Egypt- gives the victorious Libyan opposition a clean slate that may be more receptive to democratic nation-building. Libyans have granted themselves a rare opportunity for genuine revolutionary transformation of their political, economic and cultural life. Thus, it could turn out to be helpful that Qaddafi left no institutional infrastructure behind

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Inawezekana kuwa hakuacha hicho kinachoitwa "institutional infrastructure" lakini bado napata tabu kukubaliana na mwandishi huyu kuwa watu wa Libya wamepata "clean slate" ya kujenga Ldemocratic Libya kwa kuwa.......

The leadership vacuum in Libya is not likely to be filled anytime soon. We don't know whether tribal or regional loyalties will be the primary political identities now that the great unifier-hostility to the Qaddafi regime-can no longer suppress diverse goals and ambitions. The TNC lent international credibility to the anti-Qaddafi forces, but much of the fighting in the last stages of the struggle was under the control of semiautonomous militia commanders

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Na hapo ndipo utamu unaponoga.......unajua mnapokutana na common interest kwenye kupigania jambo na mkawa mna hidden interest ndani yenu kila mmoja, siku mkisha pata ile common interest ndipo inapokuja issue ya zile hidden interest zenu, na hili ndilo litakaloichelewesha Libya

Libya After Qaddafi | The Nation

The North African oil major is at a tremendous crossroads today but much will depend on how the transitional regime overcomes the awesome challenges which confront the troubled nation at the present time. Of utmost importance is the need to balance its Arab identity with its European future ............The critical fact, however, is that Libya, along with its huge energy potential is located in fairly close proximity to Europe - this means that much of the market in the foreseeable future will be in Europe. Thus, Libya will become increasingly tied into the European system. At the same time, there will be a tension between this movement towards Europe and Libya's natural linkages with the Arab world. Libya's new rulers would need to navigate these opposing pressures very careful

What these facts mean in practice is that significant sections of the already religious Libyan population have, over the years, gravitated towards religion as an identity and as a channel of expression. A few Libyans from within this constituency even participated in the Afghan Jihad and now form a part of the forces that overthrew the Gaddafi regime. Expectedly, like all other Libyans they are now articulating their own vision of the future Libyan state - in which they see Islamic law as the guiding principle.

Thus, Libya has a large constituency that believes in a positive role for tradition and religion in their government. This will inevitably create opportunities for tension between modernity and tradition. Libya's future constitution will need to take cognisance of and manage this tension in order for Libya to have a stable future.http://www.dailypioneer.com/pioneer-news/oped/17887-libya-after-gaddafi--a-big-future.html

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Hapa ndipo NTC itakapopasuka msamba....na mijeba ya "mtoni" imeshatumbua macho

Soma zaidi: http://www.dailypioneer.com/pioneer-news/oped/17887-libya-after-gaddafi--a-big-future.html

Cathode Rays said:

Inawezekana kuwa hakuacha hicho kinachoitwa "institutional infrastructure" lakini bado napata tabu kukubaliana na mwandishi huyu kuwa watu wa Libya wamepata "clean slate" ya kujenga Ldemocratic Libya kwa kuwa.......



Na hapo ndipo utamu unaponoga.......unajua mnapokutana na common interest kwenye kupigania jambo na mkawa mna hidden interest ndani yenu kila mmoja, siku mkisha pata ile common interest ndipo inapokuja issue ya zile hidden interest zenu, na hili ndilo litakaloichelewesha Libya

Libya After Qaddafi | The Nation

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Mkuu i could cut the libyans some slack due to their "Naivette"

Vipi kuhusu sisi ambao serikali yetu haitujali na umasikini mkubwa tulionao kutokana na hayo lakini bado tulisapoti vita dhidi ya serikali iliyojali welfare ya wananchi wake?

Je ni kweli waliosapoti hawakuona hizi elements kuwa mwishowe ni just tribalism war?

Je ni kweli hwakuona haya kuwa yatatokea honestly ama ni ushabiki tu?

Huwa najiuliza sana haya maswali.

Wengi wetu ni very brainwashed!

Mkuu chaos kwao inawalipa kuliko peace,watu hawajui hilo.

Hawajui kuwa mataifa hayo yanaendeshwa kwa uwepo wa vita duniani na kama havipo yataanguka?

Libyan official blasts Niger's amnesty offer to Gadhafi son as a 'provocation'

From Jomana Karadsheh, CNN
updated 4:25 PM EST, Mon November 14, 2011


Tripoli, Libya (CNN) -- A top Libyan official on Monday slammed Niger's offer of amnesty to one of the late Moammar Gadhafi's sons, calling it a "challenge and provocation."

Last Friday, Niger President Mahamadou Issoufou reaffirmed his country's decision to grant asylum to Saadi Gadhafi, saying the son of Libya's longtime ruler should be allowed to stay and be treated just like other "Libyan refugees."

Abdel Hafiz Ghoga, deputy chairman of Libya's National Transitional Council, blasted that stance while addressing reporters Monday in Tripoli.

"It is unacceptable that Niger would turn into a country that harbors
criminals wanted by international justice," he said. "We call on Niger to reconsider its unjustified position."

The rift is one of the new Libyan government's first with other nations. The deputy chairman described Niger's position as "hostile," adding, "Such statements do not help build relations based on mutual respect."

Saadi Gadhafi is in Niger, the landlocked West African nation bordering Libya.
Ghoga referred to him Monday as a "wanted criminal in Libya." Interpol has issued an arrest warrant -- known as a "red notice" -- for Saadi Gadhafi, requesting his provisional arrest ahead of his extradition or surrender to an international court.

The warrant accuses him of "misappropriating properties through force and armed intimidation when he headed the Libyan Football Federation."

His lawyer, Nick Kaufman, told CNN earlier this month that his client "strenuously denies the charges made against him."

Kaufman said he's asked the Interpol secretary general to revoke the warrant, claiming that it is politically motivated and was sought by a new Libyan leadership that lacks legitimacy.

Issoufou told reporters last week in South Africa that Niger's position is not new, saying, "The attitude of the Niger government regarding this has already been noted: We have already welcomed Libyan refugees for humanitarian reasons" -- of which Saadi is one such refugee.

One of Saadi's brothers, Saif al-Islam Gadhafi, remains in hiding.
He is also wanted by Interpol, as well as by the International Criminal Court. As a party to that court, Niger would be obligated to turn Saif al-Islam over should he be detained within its borders.

While Issoufou didn't articulate a firm position on this son of Gadhafi, Ghoga said that Niger was "insinuating" that Saif al-Islam, like his brother, would also get asylum.

Three of the Gadhafi brothers were killed during the months-long conflict in their native Libya, along with their father. Their other siblings, meanwhile, escaped to Algeria.

Libyan official blasts Niger's amnesty offer to Gadhafi son as a 'provocation' - CNN.com

[h=1]Libyan interim leaders deploy fighters of their new army for the first time in militia feud[/h][h=3]By Associated Press, Updated: Monday, November 14, 4:00 PM[/h]
TRIPOLI, Libya — Hundreds of uniformed men described as members of a new Libyan army have been deployed for the first time to settle a bloody feud between rival militias, officials said Monday.

The soldiers, wearing beige camouflage uniforms and ID badges, were sent to serve as a buffer between gunmen from the city of Zawiya and the nearby tribal area of Warshefana.


Four days of fighting, the most sustained since the capture and killing of Moammar Gadhafi last month, had claimed at least 13 lives. The violence raised questions about the ability of Libya’s interim leaders to restore order after eight months of civil war.

Abdel Hafiz Ghoga, a senior official in Libya’s National Transitional Council, said Monday that the feud has been settled. He said members of the national army took up positions between Zawiya and the Warshefana lands, a few miles (kilometers) apart, and both less than an hour’s drive west of the capital of Tripoli.

In the fighting of recent days, armed forces fired rockets, mortars and heavy machine guns at each other. In Warshefana, several homes were severely damaged.

The spark for the violence remains unclear, though accusations have been flying from both sides, including that some of the Warshefana residents had ties to the old regime.

The two sides fought, among other things, for control of a former major military base of the Gadhafi regime. “Members of the national army are now in control of the base, which was a source of conflict,” Ghoga said.

On Monday, hundreds of soldiers were deployed in the area between Zawiya and Warshefana. They manned checkpoints and searched cars for weapons.

Ghoga said the units deployed Monday were forerunners, and that a full army would be formed only after a new government is announced next Sunday.

The government is scheduled to run Libya for seven months until elections for a national assembly.

Former anti-Gadhafi fighters will then have the choice either to join the security forces or return to civilian life, he said.

Thousands of men who fought against Gadhafi remain armed, and there has been growing concern about the lack of control over all the weapons.

Fighters deciding to join the army would first have to undergo training, Brig. Gen. Abdel Salam al-Hasi, commander of the new forces, told The Associated Press. “Everyone will have to obey the legitimacy of our army,” he said.

He would not say how many have already joined, but said the security force is growing in numbers. Gradually, former fighters returning to civilian life would be disarmed, he said.

Copyright 2011 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

THE ROMANTIC said:

Watamkumbuka yule mzee wa kiarabu waliemzalilisha pale kwenye boneti ya gari siku ile,kina anderson cooper wa cnn sasa hivi kimya hawasemi chochote kuhusu libya kama vile hakuna kinachoendelea,sasa wamehamishia camera zao syriaaaaaaaaa!wakimaliza hako wanahamia iran!

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Iran hawaendi wanaogopa Mahmoud Ahmadinejad atawachapa nuclear basi wanabaki maneno maneno tu,hata wao ni waoga ndo maana unaona nchi kama North Korea, Iran hawaendi, wanatafuta wale wadhaifu wawaonee...

Bright Smart said:

Iran hawaendi wanaogopa Mahmoud Ahmadinejad atawachapa nuclear basi wanabaki maneno maneno tu,hata wao ni waoga ndo maana unaona nchi kama North Korea, Iran hawaendi, wanatafuta wale wadhaifu wawaonee...

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Maneno yako si kweli una maana Libya ilikuwa Dhaofu???

Echolima said:

Maneno yako si kweli una maana Libya ilikuwa Dhaofu???

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Kijeshi Libya ilikuwa dhaifu. Libya ilijenga jeshi la nchi.kila raia alipewa mafunzo ya silaha. Ni Khamis bregade tu ndio ilikuwa ndio kikosi kilichotumainiwa Libya, around 7000 heads.Na hawa wakawa ndio target ya US- NATO.

Walidhani zama za uadui na US-West zilimalizika walipoacha mradi wa kutengeneza silaha za maangamizi na walipolipa fidia wahanga wa Lockerbie.(ingawaje hii issue iliishia kuwa hakuna ushahidi kuwa Libya ndio walipandikiza bomu) google ujihabarishe.

Kwa hiyo ,Libya hawaku-up grade jeshi na silaha zao na badala yake walitumia hela katika investment kiuchumi. Hili la kutaka kuanzisha gold dinar na mfumo wa fedha wa Afrika ndio sababu kuu ya Libya kupewa kisago. Kumbuka NTC ilianzisha benki kuu na shirika la mafuta/petroleum katika wiki mbili baada ya kutangazwa rasmi NTC.

Libya S.O.S.: Mustafa Abdul-Jalil and Mahmoud Jibril Have Been Paving the Way for NATO's Conquest Since 2007

“Libyan Rebels” Create Central Bank, Oil Company

The Gold Dinar: Saving the world economy from Gaddafi

GADDAFI PLACED $97 BILLION ON TABLE TO FREE AFRICA FROM IMPERIALISM! « PakDefenceUnit

Gaddafi's refusal of the World Bank, IMF, Western multinationals & AFRICOM: the real casus belli obscured by 'humanitarian' deceits | empirestrikesblack

Invasion of Libya was About Gaddafi's Plan to Introduce Gold Dinar | Gold Stock Bull

Is Gaddafi really dead? « I am a Malaysian

Nonda said:

Kijeshi Libya ilikuwa dhaifu. Libya ilijenga jeshi la nchi.kila raia alipewa mafunzo ya silaha. Ni Khamis bregade tu ndio ilikuwa ndio kikosi kilichotumainiwa Libya, around 7000 heads.Na hawa wakawa ndio target ya US- NATO.

Walidhani zama za uadui na US-West zilimalizika walipoacha mradi wa kutengeneza silaha za maangamizi na walipolipa fidia wahanga wa Lockerbie.(ingawaje hii issue iliishia kuwa hakuna ushahidi kuwa Libya ndio walipandikiza bomu) google ujihabarishe.

Kwa hiyo ,Libya hawaku-up grade jeshi na silaha zao na badala yake walitumia hela katika investment kiuchumi. Hili la kutaka kuanzisha gold dinar na mfumo wa fedha wa Afrika ndio sababu kuu ya Libya kupewa kisago. Kumbuka NTC ilianzisha benki kuu na shirika la mafuta/petroleum katika wiki mbili baada ya kutangazwa rasmi NTC.

Libya S.O.S.: Mustafa Abdul-Jalil and Mahmoud Jibril Have Been Paving the Way for NATO's Conquest Since 2007

“Libyan Rebels” Create Central Bank, Oil Company

The Gold Dinar: Saving the world economy from Gaddafi

GADDAFI PLACED $97 BILLION ON TABLE TO FREE AFRICA FROM IMPERIALISM! « PakDefenceUnit

Gaddafi's refusal of the World Bank, IMF, Western multinationals & AFRICOM: the real casus belli obscured by 'humanitarian' deceits | empirestrikesblack

Invasion of Libya was About Gaddafi's Plan to Introduce Gold Dinar | Gold Stock Bull

Is Gaddafi really dead? « I am a Malaysian

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Hivi kumbe kuna watu hawajui hii maneno?

Duh!Shukrani kwa kutoa elimu.

what does last link mean?

HT said:

what does last link mean?

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Ingia ndani ya link ujisomee. Utafahamu, utaelewa.
Ukipitia ile thread ya rise and fall ya gaddafi kule kuna michango inayoashiria kuwa yule ambaye tulioneshwa kwenye runinga hakuwa Gaddafi, the king of kings.

NTC baada ya kuwapatia silaha wahuni sasa wanataka kuzikusanya silah hizo.
Walifurahia kuitoa kafara Libya huru na kukaribisha vifo na utumwa wa kibenki (madeni). Hiyo mpaka mida hii tunazungumza ndio Libya mpya.