System (chuo) ya Sheng

uyu falcon mtz najua akifika tao hata rada any ni smatta lakini vile anatry one day atawasili.
 
sheng tamu jo ni ka tei mkichapiana nayo wanengi wanateveva wanakaa wamesing'aing'a kaa ma ---- shtuka.
 
pingli-nywee said:
si siri sheng wameinoki wanachapiana hapa za ovyo but wanadai kuing'am but wapi?
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Mdogo mdogo hii lugha yetu itagrow na kukuwa national language ya Ky. Zile swa hao mamwere huinsist ati sijui sanifu ndio iko poa, manze, imechapa na inaboo tu sana. Mimi hata hushindwa vile huijot hapa jf, juu hata kuibonga enyewe nashindwanga.

Sheng ni ka moving train,hauwezi ukaistopisha.
 
wachapie mzeiya yao yenyewe si sanifu vile wao udai inawado wawe too slow n lazy na imagine mtaa tao masmatta wangekuwa wanachapiana na hii swa yao?drama.
 
pingli-nywee na Iconoclastes I am gonna go against the tide here and maybe you may not like my comments but I disagree, you cannot compare Kiswahili Sanifu with sheng'. I understand the importance of the two, I am a Nairobian, but sheng's utility ends there, Swahili is a regional language that's its power, it is a standardized language that has been in use for more than 1,000 years, it's even probably older than English. It's future in Africa is very bright, that's the power Swahili has. Sheng' on the other hand is not a standardized language it's ever changing, which is good, but it will never become a national language, I appreciate that I can speak sheng' in Nairobi, it's my identity, but Swahili is even more powerful if you know how to use it.

An example, do you ever wonder why Tanzanian Bongo videos always get more views than our own? No, it's not because more of them have internet connection it's because the East African region likes them as a whole, so they sell more because they are more authentic. Kenya does have some good swahili music, but we already lost the chance to sell because the Tanzanians focused on using their own language. Language is power and nowhere is this more evident than the use of English globally. Do you know that London is the most visited city in the world, and you can guess why that is.
 
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pkjag said:
pingli-nywee na Iconoclastes I am gonna go against the tide here and maybe you may not like my comments but I disagree, you cannot compare Kiswahili Sanifu with sheng'. I understand the importance of the two, I am a Nairobian, but sheng's utility ends there, Swahili is a regional language that's its power, it is a standardized language that has been in use for more than 1,000 years, it's even probably older than English. It's future in Africa is very bright, that's the power Swahili has. Sheng' on the other hand is not a standardized language it's ever changing, which is good, but it will never become a national language, I appreciate that I can speak sheng' in Nairobi, it's my identity, but Swahili is even more powerful if you know how to use it.

An example, do you ever wonder why Tanzanian Bongo videos always get more views than our own? No, it's not because more of them have internet connection it's because the East African region likes them as a whole, so they sell more because they are more authentic. Kenya does have some good swahili music, but we already lost the chance to sell because the Tanzanians focused on using their own language. Language is power and nowhere is this more evident than the use of English globally. Do you know that London is the most visited city in the world, and you can guess why that is.
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Wewe ni team diamond
 
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falcon mombasa said:
Wewe ni team diamond
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Mimi huskiza miziki yote huwa sibagui, hata beats za ohangla, mziki wa wajaluo hubamba sana, ndio maana nashauri hawa wakenya wenzangu umuhimu wa lugha ya kiswahili, hasa kwa wanamuziki wanaoenzi kuskizwa na umati mkubwa zaidi afrika mashariki.

Huwezi linganisha kiswahili fasaha na sheng', kwa sababu kiswahili kwa ujumla huzungmzwa na watu zaidi kwa hivyo umuhimu wake ni zaidi ya sheng'. I know people are attached to their identities but here, we have to speak the truth and call a spoon a spoon and a spade a spade.
 
Umuhimu wa kuweza kuzungumza lugha hili vyema husisitizwa sana, lakini kusema kweli pkjag, ni wakenya wangapi wanye uwezo wa kulilonga lugha hili kwa ufasaha (isipokuwa wacoast)? Mimi nasadiki ni wakenya chini ya 35% tu, wengi wao wakiwa wapwani. Lakini hili halijakuwa kikwazo kwetu sisi kuweza kutangamana na hao wenzetu kutoka haya mataifa mengine ya Afrika mashariki na kati hasa katika biashara. Kwa hivyo huo wasiwasi wako ni kutokana na dhana tu, (Kumbuka, ni waganda wangapi hata wanalielewa lugha hili na bado wanafanya dili kote EAC?).

Lugha ya kiswahili, kusema kweli halitiliwi maanani sana na wakenya wengi, kuanzia kwenye mashule za misingi hadi kwenye viongozi wetu wakuu serikalini. Ni wabunge wachache mno kwa mfano wanaoweza kulilonga lugha hili kwa ufasaha kabisa.
Hatua isipochukuliwa mapema, basi karne zijazo lugha hili huku Kenya itaendelea kudidimia hata zaidi, na wakenya wengi wataendelea tu kupendelea sheng, lugha zao za mama na hasa kizungu katika mawasiliano yao.
 
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Iconoclastes I don't think the number of people who speak the broken version is important, what is important is that they are able to speak it, and that not even English enjoys the number of people who speak and understand the language. To make it at the level where TZ is will not be easy, but it will only take government's intervention. The main problem with Kenyan Swahili is kutozingatia ngeli fullstop, other than that we know the language pretty well. For example many Kenyans say hii maji badala ya haya maji, that is the bane of bad Swahili in our country and can simply be corrected with more reading and usage of the language, the second problem is our limited vocabulary and the practice of replacing what we don't know with English equivalents. Those are the only two problems with our Swahili, I'm surprised nobody has ever published this even in Taifa Leo.

It's very sad people do not know the power of Swahili, you underestimate the language, if only you'd see what I see. The Tanzanians love the language but they don't have the necessary machinery to take it to the global heights, we do, but we take it for granted, it's really sad that we have our own African language, yet we glorify the white man's language and it's not that Swahili vocabulary can't be expanded to match other more developed languages, it can, but we are unwilling, we are too brainwashed by the west to see how much power this language has. Languages such as Japanese, Hindu, Urdu, etc were at one time undeveloped but the nations that speak them went on a vocabulary hunt after colonialism to develop them to be able to teach and publish research, I don't know what's wrong with african people, because they easily assimilate what isn't theirs, then tunalialia eti we need to keep our cultures alive.

Every great civilization had its own language to match, one of the reasons we do not have a reading culture is because the English language cannot describe some african experiences and even if it can, most people don't understand english, why do you think Taifa Leo is still in circulation, because people in mashinani read it and they are the majority, now imagine if we could write scientific books in our own language, the people in mashinani wataerevuka without having to learn english to university level, it allows us better platform for nationalism and enlightenment, without robbing us of fluency in a language like English. English divides us into two groups, those who have a larger vocabulary and those who don't, just because they didn't finish school, imagine if Swahili's vocabulary was developed to match English, and we taught the subjects using Swahili in our schools? The possibilities are endless, more people would be aware, educated and proud, we'd be able to publish research in our own language, prompting other countries to translate that into their own, more economic opportunities, more originality and definitely more pride.
 
The ability to speak kiswahili or any other language properly, in its purest form matters a great deal in ensuring its growth and development pkjag. It isnt true at all that Kenyans' only challenge with the language is with the ngeli. Their problems are wide-ranging; from the inability to speak the language at all, interspersing their sentences with either their vernacular or english, the ngelis etc. It is clear how all these have done violence to the language in Kenya.

I'd also like to dispute your claim that the Taifa Leo is really popular newspaper. (It is, btw the least successful publication in the NMG stable). If swahili newspapers were really that popular at the grassroots, then we wouldnt be having just one swahili newspaper in Kenya, right?
Even at the mashinani, the newspapers of choice are The DN and The Standard. TL hardly ever sells.

Developing kiswahili to be on a parity with english may take a while. Meantime, let us just make do with English. We have no choice.
 
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Iconoclastes said:
The ability to speak kiswahili or any other language properly, in its purest form matters a great deal in ensuring its growth and development pkjag. And it isnt true at all that Kenyans' only challenge with the language is with the ngeli. Their problem with the language are wide-ranging, from the inability to speak the language at all, interspersing their sentences with words from either their vernacular or english, the ngelis etc. And it is clear how all these have done violence to the language here.
Again I'd like to dispute your claim that the swahili newspaper, Taifa Leo is really that popular. It is, btw the least successful publication in the NMG stable. If swahili newspapers were really that popular at the grassroots, then we wouldnt be having only one swahili newspaper in Kenya, right? Even at the mashinani, the newspapers of choice are The DN and The Standard.

Developing kiswahili to be on parity may take a while. Meantime, we just have to do with English. We have no choice
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I didn't say all Kenyans i said most of the Kenyans, those who have gone to school that is, and they comprise more than 88% according to recent statistics. Taifa Leo is popular, don't know why there aren't more swahili newspapers, there are other Swahili publications especially sports, like Mwanaspoti, na zingine nimesahau jina, there are also lots of Swahili radio stations that cater to that same population. The point I was trying to make is that Swahili is still spoken by more people in Kenya hata kama ni broken, what most people do is to make the mistake of labelling that Swahili as sheng', sheng' only has future in the big cities, it cannot rival Swahili, because mass media and education in general supports Swahili, so it will only be used sparingly in certain regions because it is simply ineffective elsewhere.
 
Taifa Leo is selling dismally, believe me. Huge bulk of it is sold to schools, only a punny number is bought by the general public. Even the NMG, in an article on the Saturday Nation's arts and literature section decried this unfortunate state of affairs. If the kiswahili news readership was that widespread...and lucrative, do u really think that the other media houses would just sit back and watch the NMG have the market all to themselves? My local newspaper vendor hardly ever stocks more than 10 TL papers,but upto 50 of the rest, why is that?

The swahili radio stations in Kenya are only thriving cos of their entertainment value, playing the bongo and naija music all day. Otherwise...
Again in that industry, it is the vernacular and english channels that hold the sway. Look at the advert revenues they amass in comparison with the swahili channels.

Yes, kiswahili is spoken by most Kenyans, in its hilariously broken form and in most cases casual conversations.
 
Iconoclastes said:
Taifa Leo is selling dismally, believe me. Huge bulk of it is sold to schools, only a punny number is bought by the general public. Even the NMG, in an article on the Saturday Nation's arts and literature section decried this unfortunate state of affairs. If the kiswahili news readership was that widespread...and lucrative, do u really think that the other media houses would just sit back and watch the NMG have the market all to themselves? My local newspaper vendor hardly ever stocks more than 10 TL papers,but upto 50 of the rest, why is that? The swahili radio stations in Kenya are only thriving cos of their entertainment value, playing the bongo and naija music all day. Otherwise... Again in that industry, it is the vernacular and english channels that hold the sway. Look at the advert revenues they amass in comparison with the swahili channels. Yes, kiswahili is spoken by most Kenyans, in its hilariously broken form and in most cases casual conversations.
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Achana na Nairobi, it is still read, especially mashinani, you might not have traveled that much around rural Kenya to see it, there are also many other newspapers, but yes DN and Standard are still popular for obvious reasons. I did not say it was lucrative i said that it is read, lucrative in this sense means that it enjoys the same distribution as DN/Standard which isn't true, but based on DN's monopoly, one can say that it's still popular and not just in the coast.

Again the same with the radio stations, travel around and you'll get to hear them, apart from vernacular stations, Swahili stations (not one) are more widely heard around Kenya, what you get is that maybe one major radio station like Kiss 100 is listened to in the towns, but in the rural villages, they'll listen to something like Radio Citizen or some other vernacular station, so the Swahili stations as a whole get more listeners than say a major radio station in rural Kenya especially for broadcasting football matches.

I just hope somebody can conduct a survey around the counties to prove my point, I've been to almost all the county headquarters in Kenya and I've observed this. What we need is government intervention, what's the point of studying Kiswahili if you only use it in discussions, we need an education policy, the north african Arab countries now teach only in Arabic, they've dumped french and only use it as a subject. Same with India, it teaches all the subjects in Hindi and English is only a language subject and the chaps are one of the biggest exporters of doctors and Engineers to America, and their English hasn't suffered one bit, in fact, I think they are more fluent than we are.
 
pkjag said:
Achana na Nairobi, it is still read, especially mashinani, you might not have traveled that much around rural Kenya to see it, there are also many other newspapers, but yes DN and Standard are still popular for obvious reasons. I did not say it was lucrative i said that it is read, lucrative in this sense means that it enjoys the same distribution as DN/Standard which isn't true, but based on DN's monopoly, one can say that it's still popular and not just in the coast.

Again the same with the radio stations, travel around and you'll get to hear them, apart from vernacular stations, Swahili stations (not one) are more widely heard around Kenya, what you get is that maybe one major radio station like Kiss 100 is listened to in the towns, but in the rural villages, they'll listen to something like Radio Citizen or some other vernacular station, so the Swahili stations as a whole get more listeners than say a major radio station in rural Kenya especially for broadcasting football matches.

I just hope somebody can conduct a survey around the counties to prove my point, I've been to almost all the county headquarters in Kenya and I've observed this. What we need is government intervention, what's the point of studying Kiswahili if you only use it in discussions, we need an education policy, the north african Arab countries now teach only in Arabic, they've dumped french and only use it as a subject. Same with India, it teaches all the subjects in Hindi and English is only a language subject and the chaps are one of the biggest exporters of doctors and Engineers to America, and their English hasn't suffered one bit, in fact, I think they are more fluent than we are.
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pkjag, I have been to several rural parts of Kenya manzee, kwanza mimi mwenyewe ni mshadhe mbaya; having spent some portion of my life in a rural part of western kenya. I have spent also some time in Kiambu county, Ruaka to be precise. Kwa hivyo I understand the Kenyan rural areas quite well.

Honestly, I havent disputed any of your that argument above, My point was that far too many Kenyans do not speak the proper Kiswahili Language. There are variant types of Kiswahili in Kenya, that somehow only work stymie the language here in Kenya.

In Kisumu county for example, very little kiswahili is spoken, too many prefer kijaluo and the educated ones would rather English as the alternative.
Taifa leo newspapers in Kisumu streets and in the adjacent rural areas are as common as banana plantations in Libya! They would only tune to radio Citizen when the Roga Roga show is on, but the majority of the time they listen to Radio Lake Victori or Ramogi fm.
In Ruaka, kikuyu language reigns. There it's as though the radio station of choice is kameme. At least I have seen some Taifa Leo newspapers in Kisumu streets but in Ruaka, I do not remember ever seeing any.

The swahili radio stations in Nairobi; it is only Radio Citizen,KBC Idhaa ya Taifa, (Radio Maisha not that much though) and Qfm that strive to speak the pure version of Kiswahili, the Tanzanian style while the rest would only use the kiswahili sanifu while reading the news or when interviewing some important guest in the studio. But majority of the time, the presenters use the Nairobi swahili variant. No, not the hardcore sheng, a la Ghetto Radio, but si unajuanga hii kiswahili ingine sisi wengine wetu huongeanga huku mtaani? Not the proper Swa. Try tuning to 93.6 Milele fm even right now and listen to these two dudes to know what I am talking about.
The older, less educated Kenyans in the rural areas mostly prefer listening to the radio stations broadcasting in their vernacular languages while the younger group listen to the Kenya urban kiswahili language radio stations. I do not think that Radio Citizen for example enjoys the audience of many youths as Milele fm, majority of its audience are rather much maturer.
The well educated, urban youth and the even the maturer pipo prefer the English radio stations.

But the Swahili newspapers arent quite as developed in Kenya as their english counterparts owing to their low readership. And that is the fact.
 
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Iconoclastes Ok, I understand you but my point was that it will only take government intervention to change this, I love that we have such a language that unites us, I just don't like how we treat it and the attitude of most Kenyans towards the language, I guess I'm more optimistic than most about the future of this language, it's really frustrating that most people don't realize its importance.
 
pkjag said:
Iconoclastes Ok, I understand you but my point was that it will only take government intervention to change this, I love that we have such a language that unites us, I just don't like how we treat it and the attitude of most Kenyans towards the language, I guess I'm more optimistic than most about the future of this language,it's really frustrating that most people don't realize its importance.
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It will have to take not just the Kenyan govt's efforts to place swahili on the same pedestal as english, but also the change of attitude by Kenyans themselves. I have several times heard my fellow luos wonder why should this kiswahilaila ni (derogative) be exalted above their own language which they think is more superior. They arent the only Kenyans who suffer from this attitude.

How many Kenyans would stomach the idea of kiswahili being used as the mode of instruction in schools? It's unthinkable and crazy to many.
 
Wazeiya, acheni utiaji, maze sheng ndo languange ya wasee waliochanuka ghetto, lazima ipewe maximum respect. Maboy wote wa ghetto huwa lazima waibonge halafu wakisha-chuo ndio wanabdilisha na kubonga engish, yaani English-Swahili. Hakuna venye shen's itawahi isha, sa hii watoi wa mine hubonga vitu sielewi ama kushikanisha.

Anyaway, I love my Kenyan people, we speak so many languages and even invent more words. This ability is so amazing and I try my best to keep up with everything. However, sanifu swa is hardly spoken in the city, in fact I enjoy so much attention when I speak fluent Swahili on the streets, guys and everyone even in the clubs do turn their heads to listen to me. I have a habit of adding some flavor in the accent such that you can't tell whether am from Coast or Tanzania.

And that very moment I can switch to fluent Kikuyu and end up throwing everyone into a spin. Then add some flavor by suddenly changing to English. Wait until you see the reaction when I change into speaking Luhya language of Anyole (my wife's), or throw a few dholuo words. And did I mention the slang used in streets of Bongo....

But my kids beat me in French, they can choose to put me off by conversing in the language. They have been taught the sign language too. Kenya is so sweet guys.
 
Hatukatai kuwepo kwa ndimi nyingi hapa Kenya; ni jambo nzuri kabisa. Tunapenda hiyo variety ya malugha kabisa. Lakini MK254, si ingekuwa jambo njema sana iwapo wakenya wengi pia wangeweza hata na kulonga kiswahili kwa ufasa, angalau mithili ya wanavyozungumza kingereza na ndimi zao za mama? Kwanini pia Kiswahili isiwakilishwe ipasavyo, ipatiwe hiyo hadhi na watu wote?

Kiswahili Kenya, mimi nionavyo kadri miaka inavyoendelea kusonga, ndivyo inavyoendelea kudidimia.
 
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Iconoclastes said:
Hatukatai kuwepo kwa ndimi nyingi hapa Kenya; ni jambo nzuri kabisa. Tunapenda hiyo variety ya malugha kabisa. Lakini MK254, si ingekuwa jambo njema sana iwapo wakenya wengi pia wangeweza hata na kulonga kiswahili kwa ufasa, angalau mithili ya wanavyozungumza kingereza na ndimi zao za mama? Kwanini pia Kiswahili isiwakilishwe ipasavyo, ipatiwe hiyo hadhi na watu wote?

Kiswahili Kenya, mimi nionavyo kadri miaka inavyoendelea kusonga, ndivyo inavyoendelea kudidimia.
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Iconoclastes Miaka ya hapo awali labda ningekubaliana na kauli yako, ila siku hizi Wakenya wengi wamekita katika kukizungumza Kiswahili inavyofaa. Hii imetokana na juhudi za vituo vyetu vya habari hususan vya runinga. Taratibu tutafika tu.

Kumbuka hata Bongo hawaongei Kiswahili sanifu kama inavyodhaniwa, mimi nimeishi nao kwa muda na ni wachache sana wanao ongea Kiswahili chenyewe kwa ufasaha. Wengi wanatumia Kiswahili kama lugha yao ya pekee, ila sio kwa ujuzi wa lugha. Ni kama ilivyo kawaida ukiwaskiliza Waingereza kwa makini utakuta Kingereza chenyewe wanacho ongea kimepinda kiasi.

Nenda hata kwenye jukwa la siasa humu JF, soma wanavyo andika Wabongo, ukiwa makini unaweza ukawakosoa wote.
 
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