Odinga meets Museveni as storm brews over Juba oil

[Mekatilili]

Before calling me a stupid, please try to bend and look your ass hole, if is surrounded by a gray hair not, if you manage then come and call me.

Let discuss in civilized manner, by the way hakuna mtanzania anyeitamani Kenya, ndo maana hata wewe umewafata watanzania hapa kwenye blog zao.

Touche! So you start by asking one to observe their nether regions then call for a civil discusion? I have now seen it all :lol:

 

[Mekatilili]

Unapoambiwa John Garang na wewe unasema President Moi, basi kijana hufahamu History.

Ningelikuona wa maana ungelisema President Kenyatta. I think you are still too young with Mom's smell around you.

Go back and learn when John Garang and Museven attended University of Dar es Salaam and military training.

Mwisho, usiite watu STUPID wakati hata huwafahamu: Nyayo Kid...

The Comprehensive Peace Agreement (CPA, Arabic: اتفاقية السلام الشامل‎, Ittifāqiyat al-Sālāam aš-Šaāmil), also known as the Naivasha Agreement, was a set of agreements culminating in January 2005 that were signed between the Sudan People's Liberation Movement (SPLM) and the Government of Sudan. The CPA was meant to end the Second Sudanese Civil War, develop democratic governance countrywide and share oil revenues. It further set a timetable by which Southern Sudanwould have a referendum on its independence.

Guess who needs to read a book?! So what if he went to school in Tanzania? Kenya hosts the largest South Sudanese diaspora in Africa and was behind the South Sudanese from start to this date. Why wasnt the peace accord signed in Dar es salaam, accept your irrelevance in geo- politics and soldier on!

 

[Mekatilili]

This is not the way a young man should think at this age in time..brave yourself for competition bro..its survival for the fittest. Kenya is not bragging..we have spoken in actions..and its for our own good...whats bad to feel good about what we have achieved as a country honestly!?..you have a huge responsibility as a Tanzanian citizen to build the wonderful and blessed country God gave you..and this can not be done through complaining and looking for scapegoats everywhere..EAC is for its citizens not just govts..its upon individual EAC citizens to see how they can benefit from the huge market created by the unity of this 5 great countries plus S.Sudan.

Somalia has also applied to join EAC.

I couldn't said it better!

 

[JokaKuu]

read what you will in Moyo's word but I think she was spot on. When I read South Sudan is Kenya's 48th county the implications are Kenya considers them to be our brothers and we have shared our land, resources and knowledge with them and we are pretty much one. Remember not only Kenya's 3rd largest tribe call South Sudan home but we have other Nilotic groups in both countries with the same language and customs that are only divided by a border.

Cynicism will only get you so far!

Mekatilili,

..so is it OK to call Kenya "Southern Sudan 11th county"?

..I believe it would have been enough to explain the brotherly relationship that exists btn Kenya and Southern Sudan.

..hata Uganda wame-contribute sana kwa hawa ndugu zetu wa Southern Sudan, ingependeza kama nao wangekuwa acknowledged.

 

[Mekatilili]

Mekatilili,

..so is it OK to call Kenya "Southern Sudan 11th county"?

..I believe it would have been enough to explain the brotherly relationship that exists btn Kenya and Southern Sudan.

..hata Uganda wame-contribute sana kwa hawa ndugu zetu wa Southern Sudan, ingependeza kama nao wangekuwa acknowledged.

Acknowledged by who? This issue is a non starter! You have the choice to remain cynical or venture into this brave world!

 

[Nguruvi3]

This is not the way a young man should think at this age in time..brave yourself for competition bro..its survival for the fittest.Kenya is not bragging..we have spoken in actions..and its for our own good...whats bad to feel good about what we have achieved as a country honestly!?..you have a huge responsibility as a Tanzanian citizen to build the wonderful and blessed country God gave you..and this can not be done through complaining and looking for scapegoats everywhere..EAC is for its citizens not just govts..its upon individual EAC citizens to see how they can benefit from the huge market created by the unity of this 5 great countries plus S.Sudan.

Nguruvi3;3446484]Hey! Does survival for the fittest synonymous to hypocrisy?
Just to remind you, this is an intellectual discourse, you can make a point without arrogance, abusive language, boisterous and the likes. I fully understand the cultural differences...

Bro, competition could have different meaning, for instance, in Kenya competition could mean fight between Jaluo and Kikuyu the least to say.

Yes, I agree 'Kenya lead by examples' like being the first nation in the EA block to visit Moreno O'campo in the Hague. Again, she 'killed' the EAC in 1977 for unjustifiable and stupid reasons. Lead by example!

I lived in Kenya for 6 years, I know her better than you do. I have been to Kerako, Kisii, Naivasha, Lamu, Isiyolo, South C, Nairobi, Kibera, Githurei, Machakos etc etc. If you still believe that 90% of Kenyans who live under abject poverty are better off than their counter part in the region, then you need to make an appointment with your psychiatry Dr for advice.

The main point in this discussion is to caution our government and not to stop Kenyans to pursue what is best for them.
We have gone through the ruthless from Nyayoland, we're still nursing the wound and pain inflicted by 1977 moral decay! This generation will not live to see that happen again!

As much as we love you, please stop innuendos in this forum. Give us time to discuss the fate of our country as you would like to discuss why 5% own 95% of wealth in Kenya.[/QUOTE]

 

[JokaKuu]

Acknowledged by who? This issue is a non starter! You have the choice to remain cynical or venture into this brave world!

Mekatilili,

..hata Tanzania tulikuwa shoulder-to-shoulder, from Ruvuma to Maputo, with Mozambicans during their liberation struggle.

..we did the same with Ugandans too, from Mutukula, Masaka,Kampala,Jinja, all the way to Koboko[iddi amin's home town], which is on the border with Sudan.

..But I u will never hear a Tanzanian calling Mozambique, or Uganda, our "26th region."

..Have some humility!!!

 

[Sikonge]

We are talking in different waves. I know what you wrote but you don't get what i wrote.

Joka Kuu and Nguruvi3 put it well. Kenya is 11th Southan Sudan County? Hahahaaa.....

Kweli Wakenya watani wetu. Hatuwezi kuishi bila wao na wao hawawezi kuishi bila sisi. Let's keep real.....

The Comprehensive Peace Agreement (CPA, Arabic: اتفاقية السلام الشامل‎, Ittifāqiyat al-Sālāam aš-Šaāmil), also known as the Naivasha Agreement, was a set of agreements culminating in January 2005 that were signed between the Sudan People's Liberation Movement (SPLM) and the Government of Sudan. The CPA was meant to end the Second Sudanese Civil War, develop democratic governance countrywide and share oil revenues. It further set a timetable by which Southern Sudanwould have a referendum on its independence.

Guess who needs to read a book?! So what if he went to school in Tanzania? Kenya hosts the largest South Sudanese diaspora in Africa and was behind the South Sudanese from start to this date. Why wasnt the peace accord signed in Dar es salaam, accept your irrelevance in geo- politics and soldier on!

 

[Mekatilili]

Hey! Does survival for the fittest synonymous to hypocrisy?
Just to remind you, this is an intellectual discourse, you can make a point without arrogance, abusive language, boisterous and the likes. I fully understand the cultural differences...

Bro, competition could have different meaning, for instance, in Kenya competition could mean fight between Jaluo and Kikuyu the least to say.

Yes, I agree 'Kenya lead by examples' like being the first nation in the EA block to visit Moreno O'campo in the Hague. Again, she 'killed' the EAC in 1977 for unjustifiable and stupid course. Lead by example!

I lived in Kenya for 6 years, I know her better than you do. I have been to Kerako, Kisii, Naivasha, Lamu, Isiyolo, South C, Nairobi, Kibera, Githurei, Machakos etc etc. If you still believe that 90% of Kenyans who live under abject poverty are better off than their counter part in the region, then you need to make an appointment with your psychiatric Dr for advice.

The main point in this discussion is to caution our government and not to stop Kenyans to pursue what is best for them.
We have gone through the ruthless from Nyayoland, we're still nursing the wound inflicted by 1977 moral decay!
This generation will not live to see that happen again!

As much as we love you, please stop innuendos in this forum. Give us time to discuss the fate of our country as you would like to discuss why 5% own 95% of wealth in Kenya.

I will be honest I have no idea what you are saying here, once you have the mental capacity to express yourself in an intelligent way I will be happy to engage you. You are far removed from reality my friend, now go buy a copy of english aid or type your insults in kiswahili for us to understand whatever your are yelping..

 

[tomilay]

It makes sense for SS to build their own refinery. I think they will rely on the one in Kenya until they complete one of their own. As for a rail link to the Port, I still cannot understand why they would need to use Tz. The geography does not add up.

 

[JokaKuu]

It makes sense for SS to build their own refinery. I think they will rely on the one in Kenya until they complete one of their own. As for a rail link to the Port, I still cannot understand why they would need to use Tz. The geography does not add up.

Tomilay,

..I agree with u.

..Tanzania should think of joining forces with Rwanda,Burundi, Zambia,and DRC, for a railway project.

..we can extend our central line all the way to Bujumbura,Kigali,and Kisangani in DRC.

..also, Tanzania-Zambia railway which runs frm Dar to Kapiri-mposhi can be extended to Lubumbashi in DRC.

..there is already a pipeline frm Tanzania to Zambia, I dont know if it is being fully utilized.

..also in the late 80s there was a refinery in Dar-ES-Salaam. It is no longer operational.

 

[livefire]

It makes sense for SS to build their own refinery. I think they will rely on the one in Kenya until they complete one of their own. As for a rail link to the Port, I still cannot understand why they would need to use Tz. The geography does not add up.

dont even go there, u might sleep with a headache. ''the chineese are already thinking twice about the whole Tz-Ug rail plan''

 

[Geza Ulole]

This is what you call smartness on Musevenis part!! his move is an admission of failure..he thought to bypass Mombasa port for Dar..but Kibaki was the smartest...he gave Southern Sudan a better deal and brought in another partner Ethiopia.M7 feels inferior now.
The country that should be complaining now is Northern Sudan coz we have mercilessly denied them business forever!!.Museveni..now will be forced to use Kenya unwillingly to refine and export his oil and its products ,because of the infrastructural advantage Kenya has over Tanzania!.... the rail network will be used by electric trains(for us info)..from Lamu to juba and addis..but we will extend it to northern Uganda to give M7 more temptation.Museveni is screwed! he has no choice!!
But this does not discourage Uganda and Tanzania from going ahead with the rail network that was to be built....but u can have ua ties but let it not be coz of Kenya but for the mutual benefit of your two countries......enterprising Kenyans will be beneficiaries anyway....as things stands now Uganda is in our hand..we will decide her next move..and i don't think Museveni will go ahead with Tanzanian railway coz the Kenyan side is too juicy to be ignored
So Museveni was damn not smart..and there is nothing revolutionary in him economically

Never mistaken the smartest chap Museveni he simply taught Kiir some economics basics before he let down his people and fall into a trap of constructing a refinery in Lamu instead of Juba! He will understand that otherwise Sir Museveni will whip his head to wake him up! BTW why crocodile tears on part of Kenya? Isn't this the country that yaps has no resources but blessed with industries, infrastructure and hard working people to keep the economy floating? The World never seize to amaze!

 

[livefire]

Never mistaken the smartest chap Museveni he simply taught Kiir some economics basics before he let down his people and fall into a trap of constructing a refinery in Lamu instead of Juba! He will understand that otherwise Sir Museveni will whip his head to wake him up! BTW why crocodile tears on part of Kenya? Isn't this the country that yaps has no resources but blessed with industries, infrastructure and hard working people to keep the economy floating? The World never seize to amaze!

are u always this mentally challenged ama today its a one off event? Kenya did alil marketting of its ambitions and bagged two states with it. Dont u think it takes a hardworking nation to convince two other nations to invest in its country infrastructure? In the past month alone havent u seen projects commisioned in Kenya, name it, kibera housing, Great lakes university and mombasa-likoni bypass roads to mention afew. Thats hardwork, a mark of optism. Can the same be equated to Tz?!?!

 

[Kobello]

are u always this mentally challenged ama today its a one off event? Kenya did alil marketting of its ambitions and bagged two states with it. Dont u think it takes a hardworking nation to convince two other nations to invest in its country infrastructure? In the past month alone havent u seen projects commisioned in Kenya, name it, kibera housing, Great lakes university and mombasa-likoni bypass roads to mention afew. Thats hardwork, a mark of optism. Can the same be equated to Tz?!?!

I agree with you.
But we just don't wanna mess with Kenya (As far as EAC is concerned) and at the same time, I think Museveni had a point when he preffered Juba to have included Uganda in that deal. He is just looking out for his country, is that being stupid?
Uganda is Kenya's number one trading partner, and has oil. if the pipeline would've passed through uganda, three EAC countries would benefit from it. But I think politics played a significant role and he understands that. Luos and Acholis are closer to Southern Sudan, and Kagame is landlocked.
Thats why Mr. Nguruvi urged us(Tanzania) to stay away from EAC. The politics surrounding our neighbors are too complicated for us. W e still have our brothers down south and the Ruvuma basin is spitting hydrocarbons like there's no tommorrow. My amigos in Mocambique will definately work things with us,no hard feelings but we will be okay.We came too far!! to just start counting on our northern "neighbors". matter of fact, we don't need'em.

 

[Mekatilili]

Hey Tanzanians, why dont you stop moaning and complaining all the time and focus on building your country!

 

[moyo]

God gave nothing to u greedy people! Tanzania is pity of her bros and srs in SS that Kenya is about to take them for granted (at the time they need a true neighbor) and import their crude and refine at Mombasa/Lamu and export back to SS or overseas! If this succeed it will be catastrophic to economic well-being of 8 mio. Southern Sudanese that their country heavily depends on their God given resource i.e. crude oil! For them to fully benefit of that resource they need to refine at home and use Lamu as a transit of their finished product i.e. petroleum or diesel or kerosene or LNG! I support Museveni's approach to wake up this greedy neighbors who nothing less of opportunists!

Please enlighten me on what Tanzania did in/for Southern Sudan!..in his speech in Lamu President Salva Kiir elaborated without mincing words how Kenya stood by S.Sudan when the whole region embraced a wait and c attitude!..he called Kenya a true sister, neighbor and true friend!! i did not hear anything Tanzanian in his speech!.....We are not greedy but its an art of recognizing, creating and seizing opportunities..Yes we need oil,but the arrangement we have with Sudan is so fair and they have not complained.You are crying here when Kenyans are already in S.Sudan doing business..creating opportunities for the locals while you are still seating behind your computer possibly in a cyber cafe..claiming that Tanzania is S.Sudan's best friend...this is for Southern Sudan to confess not one misguided Tanzanian who is yet to grasp the importance to integration.

 

[moyo]

Nguruvi3;3446484]Hey! Does survival for the fittest synonymous to hypocrisy?
Just to remind you, this is an intellectual discourse, you can make a point without arrogance, abusive language, boisterous and the likes. I fully understand the cultural differences...

Bro, competition could have different meaning, for instance, in Kenya competition could mean fight between Jaluo and Kikuyu the least to say.

Yes, I agree 'Kenya lead by examples' like being the first nation in the EA block to visit Moreno O'campo in the Hague. Again, she 'killed' the EAC in 1977 for unjustifiable and stupid reasons. Lead by example!

I lived in Kenya for 6 years, I know her better than you do. I have been to Kerako, Kisii, Naivasha, Lamu, Isiyolo, South C, Nairobi, Kibera, Githurei, Machakos etc etc. If you still believe that 90% of Kenyans who live under abject poverty are better off than their counter part in the region, then you need to make an appointment with your psychiatry Dr for advice.

The main point in this discussion is to caution our government and not to stop Kenyans to pursue what is best for them.
We have gone through the ruthless from Nyayoland, we're still nursing the wound and pain inflicted by 1977 moral decay! This generation will not live to see that happen again!

As much as we love you, please stop innuendos in this forum. Give us time to discuss the fate of our country as you would like to discuss why 5% own 95% of wealth in Kenya.

[/QUOTE]

I Pity you..why do you Tanzanians like living in the past!and i cant say you are good history students either!!..whatever happened in 1977 is history we must burry it but learn from it! thats why Mkapa,Moi,Museveni agreed to revive the Union....for your case...am sorry i cant blame you ..your educational system needs an overhaul....coz its products are out of tune!

 

[Nguruvi3]

I Pity you..why do you Tanzanians like living in the past!and i cant say you are good history students either!!..whatever happened in 1977 is history we must burry it but learn from it! thats why Mkapa,Moi,Museveni agreed to revive the Union....for your case...am sorry i cant blame you ..your educational system needs an overhaul....coz its products are out of tune![/QUOTE] Allow me to reiterate that the discussion is all about Tanzania, nothing to do with Kenya. In case our neighbors want to join us in discussion , then, adjustment of tone, civility and communication skills is imperative

I'm an average Tanzanian, my level of education is less or equivalent to Kibera and mathare standard.
I appreciate your suggestion to overhaul our education system, I would also suggest your country to introduce communication skills, civility and 'ritual' subjects in the best curriculum you already have.

Back to business! Let me set the record clear. I know Nyayos don't want to hear about this, but history has a tendency to repeat itself therefore erudite will never think about burying it.

1. In 1963 it was proposed to have EA federation post colonial era. The proposal was based on the geo-political, economy, proximity and cultural intermingling of the member states.Mwai Kibaki the then Makaradara constituent MP voted against the motion.

2. In 1977, 23 million people presumably the 'most educated' in the region were taken hostage by Mount Kenya Mafia under Njonjo and kenyatta. By then, Mwai Kibaki was a senior officer in the government and his participation to kill the EAC cannot be ruled out by intelligent people.

3. 2008 the same Kibaki divided Kenya in line of ethnicity which resulted into loss of 1500 civilians, millions of orphans, disabled, widows and widower.

4. Four years ago, Kibaki was about to wage a war against Uganda over 1 sqkm Migingo Island.

If you think history is not a best teacher, then you're defeating the whole concept of good education from Nyayoland.

 

[Kabaridi]

I Pity you..why do you Tanzanians like living in the past!and i cant say you are good history students either!!..whatever happened in 1977 is history we must burry it but learn from it! thats why Mkapa,Moi,Museveni agreed to revive the Union....for your case...am sorry i cant blame you ..your educational system needs an overhaul....coz its products are out of tune!Allow me to reiterate that the discussion is all about Tanzania, nothing to do with Kenya. In case our neighbors want to join us in discussion , then, adjustment of tone, civility and communication skills is imperative

I'm an average Tanzanian, my level of education is less or equivalent to Kibera and mathare standard.
I appreciate your suggestion to overhaul our education system, I would also suggest your country to introduce communication skills, civility and 'ritual' subjects in the best curriculum you already have.

Back to business! Let me set the record clear. I know Nyayos don't want to hear about this, but history has a tendency to repeat itself therefore erudite will never think about burying it.

1. In 1963 it was proposed to have EA federation post colonial era. The proposal was based on the geo-political, economy, proximity and cultural intermingling of the member states.Mwai Kibaki the then Makaradara constituent MP voted against the motion.

2. In 1977, 23 million people presumably the 'most educated' in the region were taken hostage by Mount Kenya Mafia under Njonjo and kenyatta. By then, Mwai Kibaki was a senior officer in the government and his participation to kill the EAC cannot be ruled out by intelligent people.

3. 2008 the same Kibaki divided Kenya in line of ethnicity which resulted into loss of 1500 civilians, millions of orphans, disabled, widows and widower.

4. Four years ago, Kibaki was about to wage a war against Uganda over 1 sqkm Migingo Island.

If you think history is not a best teacher, then you're defeating the whole concept of good education from Nyayoland.

Thank you for your sublime analysis, however the point marked in red is the one I beg to differ with. While most people may beg to differ, but I think the president, Mwai Kibaki handled the migingo issue with diplomacy. The borders as you know are a sensitive subject, and no one should try to against it. But I like kenya because unlike Nyerere ousting Idi Amin for reasons we have not yet come to fully understand, Kenya on the other hand is peaceful, and does not call for war and only tries to avert external aggression as showcased during the notorious Somali secession