East African Federation (EAF) public Views

I highly doubt that western nations are forcing East Africa to unite. It is in their best interests to keep developing countries as small and fragmented as possible. The smaller a country is , the less leverage it has and the more it can be expoited. Larger countries are less likely to be pushed around and are more likely to get better trade terms.

As for Rwanda/ Burundi, there should be no rush. The EU did not accept all nations at once. Each nation had to meet certain targets before they were accepted. In fact the EAF should not be rushed.

Also regarding natural resources smaller countries often end up selling raw materials because they do not have the human and material resources to convert the raw material into higher value products. And selling raw materials only is a recipe for poverty. A country needs to establish export oriented industries that can create jobs. By pooling all the resources of 3 to 5 countries, a nation will be better placed to maximize its natural resources.

And finally I am suprised that Tanzanians are considered xenophobes. WTH ? I have always thought Tanzanians to be friendly

sean pinto said:

I highly doubt that western nations are forcing East Africa to unite. It is in their best interests to keep developing countries as small and fragmented as possible. The smaller a country is , the less leverage it has and the more it can be expoited. Larger countries are less likely to be pushed around and are more likely to get better trade terms.

As for Rwanda/ Burundi, there should be no rush. The EU did not accept all nations at once. Each nation had to meet certain targets before they were accepted. In fact the EAF should not be rushed.

Also regarding natural resources smaller countries often end up selling raw materials because they do not have the human and material resources to convert the raw material into higher value products. And selling raw materials only is a recipe for poverty. A country needs to establish export oriented industries that can create jobs. By pooling all the resources of 3 to 5 countries, a nation will be better placed to maximize its natural resources.

And finally I am suprised that Tanzanians are considered xenophobes. WTH ? I have always thought Tanzanians to be friendly

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Mr. Pinto, I will agree with you that Rwanda and Burundi should be admitted later when you convince me that there are "targets" set by the EAC/EAF that the three (TZ, Kenya and Ug) meet and Rwanda and Burundi do not. As far as I know, to be admitted to the EU, a State has to meet what is termed in the EU as the "Copen hagen criteria" and these are basically 3 conditions: A State should have institutions that preserve democratic governance and human rights, a functioning market economy and accepts the obligations and the intent of the EU. Is there any set criteria for admission in the EAC/EAF? Suppose they copy and paste from the EU, do you wana tell me that the three founding members of the EAC meet 100% those criteria?

No rush into the Political Federation, I totally agree. BUT, it has never and will never make sense when people in this forum cite the unfortunate political turmoil that happened 13 years a go (in case of Rwanda) and a couple of years a go (in case of Burundi) as the only reason why they should be sidelined.

About being surprised that Tanzanians are said to be xenophobic, my answer will be that you are either a Tanzanian or you have never lived with them! I have a chance to live/work in Uganda, Tanzania and Kenya, trust me Tanzanians ARE XENOPHOBIC. They just pretent to be nice, eti wanawapenda wageni kuliko wenyeji...I worked in Dar for 2 years, I know what am talking about. The worst thing about them is that they never question anything, if I am having a drink with kaka zangu wa TZ at Brake Point, Rose Garden or wherever and I tell them Mr. Pinto is too bad or his tribe/countrymen are evil, that's it! No research, no questions, Mr. Pinto and where he comes from are BAD.

The bottomline is, we are a region, no one has powers to redetermine our countries' geographical locations, we gotta be one, learn to respect each other!

Guys, it's a Friday...so see u J'tatu.

Kenya produces more than 50000 graduates every year, Uganda Nearly 20000 a year, Tanzania about 15000 a year! What will be the position of Tanzania in this Federation? a country with many people than other members with few skilled people and a lot of resourses! Why are Kenyans and Ugandan are in need of this federation before we wake up? why are politician in need of this? is there any benefits to these "SELFISH AFRICAN POLITICIANs"?

Will this federation work as planned by these SELFISH POLITICIAN or it will turn to be a platform for discussing Rwanda, Burundi and Uganda political problem? will it take time to discuss the Kenyan tribalism or the Zanzibar crisis? When will it discuss the social problems of these people? water,access to food, better housing, education,infrastructure and many other?
LET WATCH!

screw muungwana,

who paid for the SADC MEETING?

Can someone tell how much did Tanzania Spend for the Liberation struggle for Zimbabwe,Mozambique,South Africa....etc? and who was paying money for the South Africans(ANC) freedom fighters in Dakawa, etc.

What has all those counties done to Tanzania so far?

What about the possibility of pulling out of Iraq, letting Iran invade and lose resources fighting their own kind,
and then come in and mop up the dregs?

kinombo said:

Can someone tell how much did Tanzania Spend for the Liberation struggle for Zimbabwe,Mozambique,South Africa....etc? and who was paying money for the South Africans(ANC) freedom fighters in Dakawa, etc.

What has all those counties done to Tanzania so far?

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All those liberation struggles were western-sponsored. The foreigners, including refugees who lived in Tanzania were a huge asset to Tz because the bigger percentage of UN organizations and other agencies that were providing humanitarian aid were Tanzanians...so they got riches from the agony of the foreigners.

The Tz government got a lot of support, grants from the West so that it gets encouraged to give temporary camps for these refugees, Am I wrong?? So Tanzanian government never spent any coin on anyone, excuse me! You got jobs and chances to sell the otherwise free humanitarian aid goods/services.

Hey, kuweni wastaarabu, kipimo cha ustaarabu ni kuheshimu taratibu! Utaratibu ni lazima ufuatwe! Safu hii ni ya mjadala juu ya shirikisho la Afrika Mashariki na si SADC na Mashariki ya kati! Hayo yapelekeni kwenye siasa au Mengineyo (Miscellaneous)!

Good hkiboka!

Batakuwa bamekuelewa

Admin said:

Good hkiboka!

Batakuwa bamekuelewa

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hahahahaha! Mr. Admin, I like this intentional tone/spelling of Kiswahili you've used this time round, I've always suspected you have roots with the most hated: Rwandese/Burundians!!! Bamemuelewa kabisa bwana hkiboka, usiwe na hofu. I hope it doesn't make you feel so proud to call yourself a Tanzanian, be proudly Rwandese, like me here. Thank you!

we dont need any thing!!!!!! the east africa commission aint da solution of our problems... come on guyz, this wont work!!! instead the followin iz goin 2 happen

1. 
   Ujambazi: inajulikana kenya there are many robbers over there, killer robbers

1. 
   Ukosefu wa ajira na nafasi za masomo: guyz wakenya na uganda wanasoma khatari!!!!!!!!!

I DONT WANT ANYTHING CONCERNING EAST AFRICA!!!!

Mimi binafsi naafiki kuwa liundwe. Cha kushangaza ni kuon kuwa Tanzania ndiyo inayolivalia njuga jambo hili. Mbona Kenya na Uganda hawalisemei hata kwenye vyombo vya habari? Mimi naona halifai kuanzishwa maana sijaona umuhimu wake.

kinombo said:

Can someone tell how much did Tanzania Spend for the Liberation struggle for Zimbabwe,Mozambique,South Africa....etc? and who was paying money for the South Africans(ANC) freedom fighters in Dakawa, etc.

What has all those counties done to Tanzania so far?

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afrika ya kusini wamewekeza tanzania...si unajua sehemu zipi!. tuna-bilateral trade agreements nao na wakati mwingine wanatoa institutional support kwetu na mambo kama hayo.

sasa,ukiuliza kama wamelipa[faida]tuliyowafanyia au haya yamelipa...nadhani uchambuzi yakinifu utahitajika.

ila for sure tuna goodwill all across africa and beyond b'se of this...nikwamba tu hatujakuwa aggressive enough to reap the benefit...and you know why?sisi si watafutaji wa nguvu[industrious]

kinombo....taratibu mzee,take time to understand and see things

kafaija said:

Mimi binafsi naafiki kuwa liundwe. Cha kushangaza ni kuon kuwa Tanzania ndiyo inayolivalia njuga jambo hili. Mbona Kenya na Uganda hawalisemei hata kwenye vyombo vya habari? Mimi naona halifai kuanzishwa maana sijaona umuhimu wake.

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kafaija,

kama nimesoma vizuri...umekubali lianzishwe halafu ukabadili mawazo baada ya sentensi mbili. sasa,sentensi ipi ni ya kweli au at least ina maanisha mawazo yako?

uganda wanalisemea hili na wamekuwa wakikusanya maoni[kwa jinsi nilivyosikia],response yao haipishani sana nasi[jinsi nilivyotafsiri].hivyo basi maoni yako ni muhimu!

kenya wako kwenye ka-homa ka uchaguzi kila mmoja yuko na mambo ya elections....hivyo si issue nzito kiasi hicho kwao kwasasa. si unajua,kila kitu na wakati wake!

Frank K said:

Mr. Pinto, I will agree with you that Rwanda and Burundi should be admitted later when you convince me that there are "targets" set by the EAC/EAF that the three (TZ, Kenya and Ug) meet and Rwanda and Burundi do not. As far as I know, to be admitted to the EU, a State has to meet what is termed in the EU as the "Copen hagen criteria" and these are basically 3 conditions: A State should have institutions that preserve democratic governance and human rights, a functioning market economy and accepts the obligations and the intent of the EU. Is there any set criteria for admission in the EAC/EAF? Suppose they copy and paste from the EU, do you wana tell me that the three founding members of the EAC meet 100% those criteria?

No rush into the Political Federation, I totally agree. BUT, it has never and will never make sense when people in this forum cite the unfortunate political turmoil that happened 13 years a go (in case of Rwanda) and a couple of years a go (in case of Burundi) as the only reason why they should be sidelined.

About being surprised that Tanzanians are said to be xenophobic, my answer will be that you are either a Tanzanian or you have never lived with them! I have a chance to live/work in Uganda, Tanzania and Kenya, trust me Tanzanians ARE XENOPHOBIC. They just pretent to be nice, eti wanawapenda wageni kuliko wenyeji...I worked in Dar for 2 years, I know what am talking about. The worst thing about them is that they never question anything, if I am having a drink with kaka zangu wa TZ at Brake Point, Rose Garden or wherever and I tell them Mr. Pinto is too bad or his tribe/countrymen are evil, that's it! No research, no questions, Mr. Pinto and where he comes from are BAD.

The bottomline is, we are a region, no one has powers to redetermine our countries' geographical locations, we gotta be one, learn to respect each other!

Guys, it's a Friday...so see u J'tatu.

Click to expand...

Frank
I agree there is no rational reason why Rwanda cannot join the EAF right away other than public relations. Ultimately for the EAF to pass will require a major PR effort to appease Tanzanians and convince them. In reality Rwanda is doing just fine. When Tanzanians check they will be shocked to find that Rwanda has a per capita GDP that is at least twice as high as Tanzania

At the end of the day, the EAF is about choosing to stay the same for the sake of having peace of mind or to take a step towards raising the standard of living of East Africans dramatically. Most African countries today are growing at a fairly decent rate. But when that growth is due to an increase in the exports of raw materials, the benefits do not reach the people. So even if Tanzania continues to grow at this rate for the next 10 years, it will hardly reduce the rate of poverty and unemployment.

What is needed is a major injection of foreign direct Investment (FDI). By pooling together the resources of the East African countries is the quickest and best way of increasing FDI. Having an economy that focuses on exporting unprocessed raw materials is a 1st class ticket to poverty. You are basically giving away your resources (rushwa) at throwaway prices and buying back the processed goods at a higher price and thus providing employment to foreigners such as the Chinese and the Europeans.

Sean Pinto

I was born in Tanzania. My family left for Canada when I was 6. I haven’t been back since 1983.

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You do not know anything about Tanzania let alone Africa. Your knowledge is based on Western perspective view and not African; we are the one on the ground toilling. You better enjoy your stay in Canada and your misdirected views. When the original EAC broke you were not even born, leave this issue for us to decide not you in Canada.

Dua said:

Sean Pinto




You do not know anything about Tanzania let alone Africa. Your knowledge is based on Western perspective view and not African; we are the one on the ground toilling. You better enjoy your stay in Canada and your misdirected views. When the original EAC broke you were not even born, leave this issue for us to decide not you in Canada.

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Dua Dont make me laugh myself into a seizure

When people like you find that they cant beat someone in a debate using cogent arguments, they resort to this kind of childishness. I see this on forums all the time. Instead of taking my arguments and picking them apart, you just make a general statement to try and dissuade me from commenting. If you think I dont know anything about Africa then why dont you tell me where I am wrong ?

sean pinto

What best argument do you have? I don't want to dissuade you from commenting but you should understand that this thread started sometime in March 2006 and there is nothing new which you have said, I can't recall being discussed. The majority of Tanzanians are voicing their intention to stop this nonsense Federation. You talk about EU whilst it isn't a political federation. Can you tell me which EU member state want to be in a political Federation? (Wherever they voted they refused the constitution) At least in EU they published a constitution for everyone to see. You better recall all political federations i.e. Russia (USSR), Yugoslavia, etc. none of them worked, and right now the governments are diverting resources in this doomed Federation.

For your information right now the EU is trying to force Tanzania to negotiate agreement with them under EA customs union, they don't want it to align with SADC on their own interests. If we want to unite we better unite with SADC not Kenya, Rwanda, Burundi and Uganda.

Another point which you are missing; if all member countries unite they will have a population equivalent to that of Nigeria, then what? Why Nigeria is not leading in direct investment at the moment? Why are Nigerians poor up to now? They've oil, and other natural resources. You don't have doubts about Western Nations because you do not know how they operate, we know them.

Can you tell me for example why IMF and World Bank were created? You just see things and think you know, you better recall after second World war the only country to obtain an open check was UK. No any other country in the world will have that prevelege.

Your analysis here is wrong. The countries which disagreed on community want a union? Give me a break! You better continue with your friends in other forums rather than wasting your time on things which you do not know. There is no way a Tanzanian with his right mind can allow Kilimanjaro or Serengeti to be part of Kenya, Rwanda, Burundi or Uganda for that matter. WE CAN CONTINUE TO HAVE THE COMMUNITY NOT A FEDERATION.

The point we are missing here in comparing our EU and EAC is the contextual differences between the two unions. Whereas in europe economy drives everything, in Africa it is politics.

So, it is understandable that Europeans should be happy with their economic cooperation. For us, economic cooperation cannot work without a political marriage. So, it is prudent that we put our poltical house in order and everything else will follow.

Thus we were wrong in 1967 and this time again to have started with economic cooperation prior to political federation, which is why all brave and far looking minds should support the fast tracking of the EAF.

The brave are busy influencing little minds to look after their bellies.