Cost comparison SGR Kenya vs SGR Tanzania

[Kafrican]

R u trying to teach a PO + QA + SCRUM master person on software testing? hold ur horses right there!

We tunajua umesomea kila aina ya career uko na PHD ya "Doctor of Philosophy in Ujinga" , you clearly cannot be taught anything, next week nitakuona kwa mada nyengine ukidai wewe ni economist na hakuna mtu anaweza kukushinda kwa utaalam wa kiuchumi..... Mwanzo si ni last month tu tukiongea mambo ya Axle load ulisema siwezi kufunza lolote kuhusu railway engineering manake wewe ni mtaalam wa railway enginnering???

Ona hapa pia

I'm very sure tukifanya survey hapa JF na kila mtu aulizwe kama ushawahi kuwaambia wewe ni mtaalam wa nini, tutapata zaidi ya taaluma kama saba hivi ambazo wewe umesema ni "Expert" nashuku hata hili taji la "JF-Expert Member" hua unalitumia offline kule mtaani unapojadiliana na watu, ukiona unashindwa na argument unaanza za, 'unajua mi ni JF-Expert member' 🤣

 

[Kafrican]

Mwisho wa siku inabeba more cargo at 22M, currently tunaelekea 6m within 4yrs
Am sure your sgr iyo 17m teus haitawahi fikisha milele.
Mambo ya stima ata Ethiopia wako nayo but still inferior to Kenya.

Yani ameongelea points zote nilikua napitia list yake nangojea hapo pa mizigo, kumbe ameacha the most important part!

 

[The best 007]

Superior in what

Rail materials quality:

Kenya chinese steel vs Tz Japanese steel and mind you Japanese steel is only second to British steel globaly.

Rail joints:

Kenyan sgr jointed rail vs Tz continuous welded

Signalling:

Kenya chinese standard vs Tz European standard

Mode of propulsion

Kenyan diesel powered vs Tz electric powered.

Tonnage:

Kenyan 25 tons per axle vs Tanzania 35 tons per axle.

Speed:

Passengers; Kenya 120kph vs Tz 160kph

Cargo; Kenya 80kph vs Tz 120kph.

Sasa tuambie Kenyan sgr is superior in what terms?

Mkuu hapo kwenye speed Kenya passenger diesel train haifiki 120kph hiyo ni speed ya kwenye makaratasi tu, wkt Tz passenger inazidi 160kph.

 

[The best 007]

Dodoma.. MGR

View attachment 1949790

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MGR yetu iko vizuri kuliko diesel SGR yao

 

[passioner255]

Yani ameongelea points zote nilikua napitia list yake nangojea hapo pa mizigo, kumbe ameacha the most important part!

Sasa Nani achague kubeba mizigo yake kwenye treni ambayo inaspidi ndogo

 

[Kafrican]

Wagon maintenance and overhaul at Nairobi workshop

 

[Kafrican]

MGR yetu iko vizuri kuliko diesel SGR yao

MGR yenu haijawai kushinda ya Kenya kwa total tonnage p.a hivyo hivyo ndo inaelekea kua kwa SGR.. Its as simple as that.

 

[Kafrican]

Sasa Nani achague kubeba mizigo yake kwenye treni ambayo inaspidi ndogo

Tofauti ni ndogo sana, at most utakuna maybe ni 3 hour difference kwenye distance ya 700km

Wakati on the other hand, curtesy of SCC user, wastani wa mda unaochukuliwa na kontena kutoka pale inaposhukishwa bandarini hadi pale unapotoka bandarini na kuanza safari - Kenya ni siku 5 wakati Tanzania ni siku 7, hizo ni siku mbili, yani 48 hour head-start! hata kama SGR yenu ingekua ina speed ya 600km/hr (fastest train in the world) bado ingeshindwa na ya kenya kwenye speed ya kufikisha mzigo kwa mteja punde unapoingia bandarini....

Hapa bado hatujaongelea inachukua mda gani kupakua contena zote kutoka kwa meli... Kenya na Tanzania hutofautiana kwa masaa tisa .... Yani kama meli mbili (moja iko Dar nyengine iko Mombasa) zinahitaji kishukisha kontena kama 5,000, itachukua masaa tisa zaidi kwa bandari ya Dar kushukisha mizigo hio hio ambayo itashukiswa na bandari ya Mombasa!


Kwahivyo hata kama mzigo wa SGR Tanzania utapelekwa na speed ya 600 km/hr utakua ni atleast 2 days late to the race!
Imagine wewe ni Kipchoje bingwa wa marathon ulimwengu alafu unafika kwenye mashindano 3 hours late wakati wenzako ambao si mabingwa huchukua chini ya masaa 2:30 kumaliza marathon... Je, wewe kama Kipchoge bado utajipa moyo uanze kukimbia ama utafunga virago vyako na urudi nyumbani manake marathon ilishaisha na mshindi kashatangazwa?

 

[coodip1]

Mwisho wa siku inabeba more cargo at 22M, currently tunaelekea 6m within 4yrs
Am sure your sgr iyo 17m teus haitawahi fikisha milele.
Mambo ya stima ata Ethiopia wako nayo but still inferior to Kenya.

Aisee sijawahi ona die hards kama kenyans wanabisha facts bila hata aibu au basis yoyote.

 

[carter]

MGR yenu haijawai kushinda ya Kenya kwa total tonnage p.a hivyo hivyo ndo inaelekea kua kwa SGR.. Its as simple as that.

Yafaa ulinganishe hiyo MGR yenu na ya Tz. Kwamba ipi ilikuwa inapiga mzigo mwingi toka mwanzo. Hapo kunya usafiri wa reli umeanza kupigiwa chapuo baada ya kujenga hiyo Chinese class railway, wakati sisi MGR ilikuwa inapiga route Kigoma na Lake zone since kitambo. Na ikianza SGR ndio kabisa Kwa ukanda huu hiyo rail itaongoza Kwa kubeba mzigo mwingi.

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[carter]

MGR yetu iko vizuri kuliko diesel SGR yao

Kabisa mkuu, unaweza kuona jinsi rail truck na tuta limekaa Sawa. Ni kama hiyo Chinese class wanayoita SGR.

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[coodip1]

Yani ameongelea points zote nilikua napitia list yake nangojea hapo pa mizigo, kumbe ameacha the most important part!

17m or 22m is a matter of frequency, axle loads and speed of which Tz sgr is better on those factors than KE sgr. We had an expexted figure of 17m tons but this does not mean Tz sgr cannot haul 30m tons pa.

 

[Kafrican]

Yafaa ulinganishe hiyo MGR yenu na ya Tz. Kwamba ipi ilikuwa inapiga mzigo mwingi toka mwanzo. Hapo kunya usafiri wa reli umeanza kupigiwa chapuo baada ya kujenga hiyo Chinese class railway, wakati sisi MGR ilikuwa inapiga route Kigoma na Lake zone since kitambo. Na ikianza SGR ndio kabisa Kwa ukanda huu hiyo rail itaongoza Kwa kubeba mzigo mwingi.

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MGR ya Mombasa Nairobi haijawahi kuacha kazi...... Labda unaongelea ile ya kwenda Kisumu...
Anyway, Usiongee tu, onyesha takwimu za MGR yenu ilibeba mizigo mingapi tumalize huu mjadala asubuhi ya mapema

 

[coodip1]

Tofauti ni ndogo sana, at most utakuna maybe ni 3 hour difference kwenye distance ya 700km

Wakati on the other hand, curtesy of SCC user, wastani wa mda unaochukuliwa na kontena kutoka pale inaposhukishwa bandarini hadi pale unapotoka bandarini na kuanza safari - Kenya ni siku 5 wakati Tanzania ni siku 7, hizo ni siku mbili, yani 48 hour head-start! hata kama SGR yenu ingekua ina speed ya 600km/hr (fastest train in the world) bado ingeshindwa na ya kenya kwenye speed ya kufikisha mzigo kwa mteja punde unapoingia bandarini....

View attachment 1949876

If kenyan cargo train travels at top speed of 80kph this will average a speed of 50kph per trip same as out MGR before revamp. Tz cargo trains with top speed of 120kph will average a speed of 100kph per trip this means tz cargo train will spend 7 hours on 700km stretch while kenyan cargo train will spend 14 hours on a same stretch. This is to say tz cargo trains travel at twice the speed of kenyan cargo trains hence more cargo hauled per annum.

 

[carter]

MGR ya Mombasa Nairobi haijawahi kuacha kazi...... Labda unaongelea ile ya kwenda Kisumu...
Anyway, Usiongee tu, onyesha takwimu za MGR yenu ilibeba mizigo mingapi tumalize huu mjadala asubuhi ya mapema

Well, so hypothetically if there is no data it means the train doesn't ferry any cargo right?

Hivi unajua mzigo wa UN unaopita hapo kwenye Mgr? Construction equipment and materials to lake zone je?

Au unaleta ubishi wa data zenu za kikenya? Haya weka data zenu hapa na primary source of your data(raw data)

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[The best 007]

Tofauti ni ndogo sana, at most utakuna maybe ni 3 hour difference kwenye distance ya 700km

Wakati on the other hand, curtesy of SCC user, wastani wa mda unaochukuliwa na kontena kutoka pale inaposhukishwa bandarini hadi pale unapotoka bandarini na kuanza safari - Kenya ni siku 5 wakati Tanzania ni siku 7, hizo ni siku mbili, yani 48 hour head-start! hata kama SGR yenu ingekua ina speed ya 600km/hr (fastest train in the world) bado ingeshindwa na ya kenya kwenye speed ya kufikisha mzigo kwa mteja punde unapoingia bandarini....

View attachment 1949876




Hapa bado hatujaongelea inachukua mda gani kupakua contena zote kutoka kwa meli... Kenya na Tanzania hutofautiana kwa masaa tisa .... Yani kama meli mbili (moja iko Dar nyengine iko Mombasa) zinahitaji kishukisha kontena kama 5,000, itachukua masaa tisa zaidi kwa bandari ya Dar kushukisha mizigo hio hio ambayo itashukiswa na bandari ya Mombasa!


Kwahivyo hata kama mzigo wa SGR Tanzania utapelekwa na speed ya 600 km/hr utakua ni atleast 2 days late to the race!
Imagine wewe ni Kipchoje bingwa wa marathon ulimwengu alafu unafika kwenye mashindano 3 hours late wakati wenzako ambao si mabingwa huchukua chini ya masaa 2:30 kumaliza marathon... Je, wewe kama Kipchoge bado utajipa moyo uanze kukimbia ama utafunga virago vyako na urudi nyumbani manake marathon ilishaisha na mshindi kashatangazwa?

Keshapagawa huyu ameanza kuwehuka

 

[dickchiller]

Mkuu hapo kwenye speed Kenya passenger diesel train haifiki 120kph hiyo ni speed ya kwenye makaratasi tu, wkt Tz passenger inazidi 160kph.

Itakua kweli niloona wode maya akiwa kunyaland alisema Kenya sgr train ni sawa na China slow train

 

[Kafrican]

17m or 22m is a matter of frequency, axle loads and speed of which Tz sgr is better on those factors than KE sgr. We had an expexted figure of 17m tons but this does not mean Tz sgr cannot haul 30m tons pa.

Frequency is not just about increasing the number of trains..... You see you don't just begin with axle load or Horse Power etc... They start with how much cargo do you need to be transporting per year and what type of cargo will it be...
Then depending on those two major factors, is when you can end up with the conclusion on frequency, axle-load, speed etc

For Kenya's case,

1. They probably started with a user requirement of 20 million tones railway (They made it 22 million just to be on the safe side).
2. Then they saw that the main type of cargo will be containerized cargo, and bulk/loose cargo like fuel,cement..etc basically no extra heavy metals are available in Kenya... So their calculations ended up concluding that 25t axle load is more than sufficient for 99% of Kenyan cargo.
3. After knowing the amount of tones and the type of cargo, That's when they decide which frequency best serves the customers. Do you need a few powerful trains with low frequency or many trains doing higher frequency. They then concluded that since its mostly container cargo, its best if smaller trains leave every 3 hours rather than larger trains be forced to wait at the port for 8 hours to be full .. So higher frequency was chosen. now how do you have higher frequency on a single track railway? By building more side loops at short intervals (every 30 km if I remember correctly) to enable more trains to pass each other in order to enable the high frquency.

As For Tanzania's case....

1. They started with a user requirement of 15 Million tones (They made it 17 million just to be on the safe side) as the projected cargo that will use rail after careful consideration.
2. They were probably thinking of heavy metals and raw mineral deposits found in both Tanzania and DRC.. So they ended up concluding that you need heavier load per train because mineral deposits are heavy and can be accumulated over time and then be carried all at once.. That's how they arrived at 35t axle load as sufficient enough to carry heavy minerals without damaging the rail.
3. After knowing the amount of tones and the type of cargo, That's when they decide which frequency best serves the customers. So as opposed to Kenya's case, they concluded that since its mostly heavy minerals that can be accumulated and carried at once, you don't need that many trips in a day. So you can have a train leaving every 8 hours but carrying double the cargo..

Kwahivyo hii mijadala ya axle load, loop lines/sidings, Horse power, length of train ....... These are not the main points, these are just the enablers, the main objective is/was tonnage and type of cargo.... We can argu all day about nitty gritty issues like speed, technology,..etc but at the end of the day, how much cargo you carry is all that matters..



Alafu BTW SGR ya Kenya inaweza kufikisha 35 million tonnes after upgrade

Kwenya feasibility report wachina walisema kama tunataka kufikisha hio 35 million tonnes, itabidi tufanye electrification, treni ziongezwe kutoka 45 hadi 100, alafu loop points ziongezwe kutoka 30 hadi 42 kama sijakosea i.e itakua treni zinaweza kupishana every 15 km .. Lakini reli itabaki ile ile, ni vile tu itakua imeongezewa maridadi, lakini tayari vile ilivyo hio reli yenyewe imejengwa na uwezo wa kubebesha maximum of 35 million tonnes itakapofanyiwa upgrade, but at current design, 22 Million tones is the maximum.

 

[Kafrican]

Mkuu hapo kwenye speed Kenya passenger diesel train haifiki 120kph hiyo ni speed ya kwenye makaratasi tu, wkt Tz passenger inazidi 160kph.

What Tz passenger train is this ambayo inazidi 160km/hr 🤣 🤣

 

[Kafrican]

Itakua kweli niloona wode maya akiwa kunyaland alisema Kenya sgr train ni sawa na China slow train

Katafute story ya Wode Maya, the whole reason Wode Maya alifukuzwa China ni kwasababu ya hio video... Anasema alipewa $10,000 USD aje afanye hio video na alipewa script ya kile atakachosema! Akatimiza yote except for one part ambapo aliambiwa aseme wakenya walikua wanatumia Giraffe kama means of transport kabla wachina watujengee SGR!

But anyway, kuna Video alifanya ya huko China kabla aje Kenya, ambapo alipanda bullet train ya 300kh/hr huko China, alafu akashuka na kupanda 'slow train' ya 160km/hr akiwa huko huko China... Sasa next series ya hio video ndo alikuja Kenya kupanda SGR ya Kenya ambayo ilikua ni exactly ile slow train aliopanda kule China, ndo hio video ikawekwa title hio kwamba "Kenya's SGR is Chinese slow train" manake hio SGR yetu ni sawa na ile slow train yao ya 160km/hr..........

So ata hio SGR yenu bado ni Chinese slow train!