Cost comparison SGR Kenya vs SGR Tanzania

Kafrican is trying to show how expensive is tz sgr compared to the one in Kenya, but he need to know the followings,

1. Electrification
Saying tz sgr is expensive because some of the expenses are covered by Tanesco, eg TL, this is wrong
Because Kenya sgr is not electrified, so if they want to electrify it they gonna incur more cost, they will need a TL and the catenaries so the cost will jump rapidly,

2. Continuous welded
Kenya sgr is not welded, welding it means more cost.

Taking into consideration the two facts above still tz have got a better deal, if Kenya want to meet the standard of tz sgr by eg electrifying and welding their sgr the cost will increase tremendously.

So let us compare the cost at the same level without including the cost of the things Kenya sgr don't have like electrification

Ngokongosha said:

Kafrican is trying to show how expensive is tz sgr compared to the one in Kenya, but he need to know the followings,

1. Electrification
Saying tz sgr is expensive because some of the expenses are covered by Tanesco, eg TL, this is wrong
Because Kenya sgr is not electrified, so if they want to electrify it they gonna incur more cost, they will need a TL and the catenaries so the cost will jump rapidly,

2. Continuous welded
Kenya sgr is not welded, welding it means more cost.

Taking into consideration the two facts above still tz have got a better deal, if Kenya want to meet the standard of tz sgr by eg electrifying and welding their sgr the cost will increase tremendously.

So let us compare the cost at the same level without including the cost of the things Kenya sgr don't have like electrification

Click to expand...

hapo kweny namba moja nataka nitoe study case.. wote tuelewe. it’s as follows

mfano bakhresa anajenga kiwanda cha juice kwa billions 1 then lets say kiwe kibaha ambapo hamna umeme.. ili kiwanda kifanye kazi kinahitaji umeme, then serikali (tanesco) wanajenga transmission line mpk hapo kibaha kwa billions 1.. END (just shortly).

huwezi kusema project ya kiwanda cha bakhresa kimecost 2 billions (including 1 billions ya TL).. same case kwa TRC (SGR) na Tanesco (transmission line).. pia I as an engineer from Kinyerezi nimwambie anakosea sana kusema transmission line ni exclusively kwa ajili ya SGR tu

And, are you ‘Ngosha’ working at Kinyerezi 1?? [emoji23][emoji23]coz i have a coworker called by that name in Kinyerezi!

Chinese company spent Sh1.3 billion on 5 SGR engineers

• Moses Michira 20th Jan 2020 03:00:00 GMT +0300

An SGR passenger locomotive engine pulls passenger wagons from Mombasa in 2017.[File, Standard]China Road and Bridge Corporation (CRBC) splashed over Sh1.3 billion on maintaining five Kenya Railways engineers supervising the construction of the Standard Gauge Railway, tender documents show.


Among the items bought for the five, together with their helpers who were also Kenya Railways Corporation (KRC) staff, were fat allowances, mobile phones and airtime.

Housing and offices for the engineers was budgeted at Sh544 million besides the personal remuneration in the country's biggest infrastructure project yet.

Collectively, the engineers attached to the five camps along the different sections were provided with Sh385 million that would cover overtime and supervision costs.

Ordinarily, seconded employees would still be on their usual salaries from their employer.


Tender documents for the Sh372 billion-worth line connecting Mombasa and Nairobi have provided a rare peak into the costing of the controversial project.

Nduva Muli, the then KRC Managing Director, entered two contracts with the Chinese contractor in July and October 2012 for Sh220 billion and $1.15 billion (Sh115 billion), respectively, which were then collectively worth Sh316 billion.

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The documents, which have been under lock and key, have surfaced in a petition filed by rights activist Okiya Omtatah at the Court of Appeal.

He has petitioned the court to declare the two tenders awarded for the construction of the line and the other for supply of rolling stock irregular.

Further, Omtatah is praying for the judges to rule that the loans taken to fund the SGR be recovered from the individuals who negotiated the loans and not from the Exchequer.

He has cited various incidents where the costs were overly inflated in the bill of quantities (BQs) used by CRBC in the tendering process.


It is in the BQs where the anticipated costs worth Sh1.3 billion for maintaining the supervising engineers is captured.

The single largest cost item worth Sh72 million was budgeted for the payment of “attendant staff” of the engineers, possibly in salaries or allowances.

CRBC planned to spend some Sh42.9 million on “payment of overtime to the engineer’s junior staff”.

The contractor also budgeted another Sh30 million in lump sum pay to engineers as superintendence costs and a further Sh30 million to cover miscellaneous expenses.

That is beside a further Sh7.6 million, which would be set aside to pay for temporary accommodation, likely in instances when they cannot make it to the provided houses in the camps for the night.

Construction of the SGR was done in sections over the 480-kilometre stretch with different teams, each with a supervising engineer from KRC, working on the respective parts.

Engineers were allowed a host of staff, including drivers for the 4X4 pick-up trucks they were assigned and trainees.

CRBC planned a Sh12 million kitty from where the allowances of trainee counterpart from KRC or any other relevant government officer would be paid from.


Telephone costs for the engineers were budgeted at Sh5 million, including 20 mobile phones each costing Sh50,000, fixed telephone lines to their residences on site connected at Sh120,000 and the Sh3.6 million in airtime.

Residences for the KRC staff were constructed from a budget of nearly Sh200 million, with the senior-most temporary officials’ homes built at Sh3 million. Monthly maintenance costs for the accommodation of the engineers’ home was projected at Sh12,274.

It is unclear what the maintenance costs of the residences would include but might consist of cleaning and housekeeping.

A total of Sh48 million was budgeted for maintenance of the KRC staff accommodation for the period of the railway construction.

Costs of keeping the supervising engineers on site are among the outstanding cost items in the tender documents, which also show that CRBC would build a 60-cubic-metre water tank at Sh4.8 million and purchase washing machines at Sh160,000 apiece.

Ngokongosha said:

Kafrican is trying to show how expensive is tz sgr compared to the one in Kenya, but he need to know the followings,

1. Electrification
Saying tz sgr is expensive because some of the expenses are covered by Tanesco, eg TL, this is wrong
Because Kenya sgr is not electrified, so if they want to electrify it they gonna incur more cost, they will need a TL and the catenaries so the cost will jump rapidly,

2. Continuous welded
Kenya sgr is not welded, welding it means more cost.

Taking into consideration the two facts above still tz have got a better deal, if Kenya want to meet the standard of tz sgr by eg electrifying and welding their sgr the cost will increase tremendously.

So let us compare the cost at the same level without including the cost of the things Kenya sgr don't have like electrification

Click to expand...

Though you are leaving out the extra things that Kenya SGR has. In Mombasa 1km of sea bed was reclaimed for the cargo shuffling terminal and all the port cranes and equipment on it, Nairobi ICD and some of the equipment. Much better train stations and Kenya SGR has 3 times more locomotives, 54 vs 16 and more rolling stock. The figure for locomotives given by TZ seems to only account for cargo locomotives, what about the passenger trains? Are those included in the 16 and $400m cost? If so 16 trains is a very little if you expect to move alot of cargo and make a profit.
Hii SGR ya TZ inaka bei kali kushida Kenya with less revenue.

Kifaru_07 said:

Though you are leaving out the extra things that Kenya SGR has. In Mombasa 1km of sea bed was reclaimed for the cargo shuffling terminal and all the port cranes and equipment on it, Nairobi ICD and some of the equipment. Much better train stations and Kenya SGR has 3 times more locomotives, 54 vs 16 and more rolling stock. The figure for locomotives given by TZ seems to only account for cargo locomotives, what about the passenger trains? Are those included in the 16 and $400m cost? If so 16 trains is a very little if you expect to move alot of cargo and make a profit.
Hii SGR ya TZ inaka bei kali kushida Kenya with less revenue.

Click to expand...

Mr Kifaru_07 alias Kafrican here is the number of wagons procured!

DAR ES SALAAM, July 6 (Xinhua) -- Tanzanian authorities said on Saturday the first phase operation of the standard gauge railway (SGR) between the business capital Dar es Salaam and Morogoro covering about 200 kilometers was set to commence in December 2019.

Isack Kamwele, the east African nation's Minister for Works, Transport and Communication, said in a news conference in Dar es Salaam that procurement process for wagons and locomotive engines has been completed.

Kamwele said procurement of 1,430 cargo wagons, 20 locomotives, 60 passenger carriages and five sets of multiple trains has begun.

"We have already set some funds to purchase the engines and we expect by this December the maiden operation of SGR from Dar es Salaam to Morogoro will start," said him.

Kamwele directed the Tanzania Railways Corporation (TRC) authorities to ensure some local sub-contractors were paid on time to speed up the construction process and avoid corruption within the SGR project.

"The contractor of SGR project is so far doing a good job, unfortunately, I have been receiving some complaints from sub-contractors that the contractor was delaying to pay them," he said.

"Once local contractors do their work they should be paid on time to avoid delaying the SGR project," said the minister. Enditem


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Tanzania's SGR to commence operations in December - China.org.cn

Ngokongosha said:

Kafrican is trying to show how expensive is tz sgr compared to the one in Kenya, but he need to know the followings,

1. Electrification
Saying tz sgr is expensive because some of the expenses are covered by Tanesco, eg TL, this is wrong
Because Kenya sgr is not electrified, so if they want to electrify it they gonna incur more cost, they will need a TL and the catenaries so the cost will jump rapidly,

2. Continuous welded
Kenya sgr is not welded, welding it means more cost.

Taking into consideration the two facts above still tz have got a better deal, if Kenya want to meet the standard of tz sgr by eg electrifying and welding their sgr the cost will increase tremendously.

So let us compare the cost at the same level without including the cost of the things Kenya sgr don't have like electrification

Click to expand...

Last time this was the cost not sure if TL n electrical locomotives were also factored in!

Kifaru_07 said:

Though you are leaving out the extra things that Kenya SGR has. In Mombasa 1km of sea bed was reclaimed for the cargo shuffling terminal and all the port cranes and equipment on it, Nairobi ICD and some of the equipment. Much better train stations and Kenya SGR has 3 times more locomotives, 54 vs 16 and more rolling stock. The figure for locomotives given by TZ seems to only account for cargo locomotives, what about the passenger trains? Are those included in the 16 and $400m cost? If so 16 trains is a very little if you expect to move alot of cargo and make a profit.
Hii SGR ya TZ inaka bei kali kushida Kenya with less revenue.

Click to expand...

Kuna Kwala ICD na pia SGR Tanzania itafika Dar port pia! especially after a realignment to fit with BRT project around the area! As for ur SGR in Mombasa u probably don't know this is what happened u got right off cranes!


The faulty standard gauge railway (SGR) gantry cranes at the Mombasa port on Thursday, May 16, 2019. The port has been forced to rely on Kenya Ports Authority cranes to load SGR containers. PHOTO | KEVIN ODIT | NATION MEDIA GROUP

In Summary

• Documents seen by the Sunday Nation reveal that in December last year, KRC asked the Chinese SGR operator to ensure the six mounted cranes were in use.
• The Chinese appeared to have ignored the instructions prompting a letter in January this year to CRBC general manager for operation Li Jiuping with similar demands that has also not been responded to.

By ALLAN OLINGO
More by this Author
Six giant cranes installed at the port of Mombasa to improve the loading and unloading of containers on the Standard Gauge Railway (SGR) have never worked since they were brought in two years ago at a cost of Sh2 billion, the Sunday Nation can reveal.

SAFETY
The rail-mounted cranes at Port Reitz were bought by the China Road and Bridge Corporation as part of the controversial SGR operations and maintenance contract to handle cargo on the Mombasa-Nairobi SGR. However, according to sources at the port, the massive equipment malfunctioned before breaking down and being abandoned by the contractor. CRBC built and operates the Chinese-funded SGR, which is Kenya’s single largest investment.

Investigations by the Sunday Nation reveal that the SGR operations at the port now largely depend on the rubber-tyred gantry cranes and those owned by the Kenya Ports Authority with little or no explanation on why the multi-billion-shillings investment is sitting idle.

Even more puzzling is that CRBC appears to have ignored communication from the Kenya Railways Corporation (KRC) to ensure that the cranes are either replaced or put in use. Each of the cranes cost Sh355 million, a figure that has also raised questions.

A port official who was present when the cranes were first tested, but who spoke in confidence, said they dropped the containers and appeared out of control, raising safety concerns.

IGNORED
“CRBC was asked to fix the problem. They brought in experts from China who failed to resolve the issue. They seemed to have given up and abandoned them,” said our source at the port.

Despite tests and inspections by China Hoisting and Conveying Equipment Quality Supervision Centre, the suppliers, in the presence of CRBC and KRC representatives in mid-October last year, the cranes have still not been put to use, putting into doubt the viability of this investment at the expense of the taxpayer.

Documents seen by the Sunday Nation reveal that in December last year, KRC asked the Chinese SGR operator to ensure the six mounted cranes were in use. The Chinese appeared to have ignored the instructions prompting a letter in January this year to CRBC general manager for operation Li Jiuping with similar demands that has also not been responded to.

On Saturday, Mr Sandy Feng, a CRBC communications official, said the company was not in a position to address the issues raised over the usage of the cranes and referred us to KRC.

“We appreciate your concerns over this matter and the operation of the SGR. However, as for the question you have raised, we suggest that you reach out to Kenya Railways Corporation to get much of the information you are seeking,” Mr Feng said despite indications in our enquiry that his company was responsible for the procurement and operations of the cranes.

KRC did not immediately respond to the questions redirected to them. However, Transport Cabinet Secretary James Macharia admitted that the cranes have never been used due to their operational challenges, adding that the country should expect new cranes in the next few months.

TARGET
“The cranes will be replaced by CRBC. We had a meeting with them on Thursday and that was the agreement. The first two cranes are expected to be replaced in the next few weeks. I am made to understand that their shipment has already started. Eventually, we shall get new replacements for the six,” Mr Macharia told Sunday Nation.

The situation has now forced Kenya Ports Authority (KPA) to move in and use its cranes to perform the tasks that CRBC was supposed to have done, depending on eight rubber-tyred gantry cranes to assist in loading, offloading and movement of containers around the yard. The port agency has also distanced its self from the non-functioning cranes, saying they are just a host of the CRBC and KRC. KPA said its six Rail Mounted Gantry (RMG) Cranes manufactured in China by ZPMC Ltd are working.

“We have an RMG station with the six cranes providing loading zones namely lines Z4, Z7, Z8, Z9 and Z10, whereby Z4 and Z9 are dedicated for loading of dangerous cargo on SGR. From these loading zones, the cranes are used to load the bloc trains. Without these six RMGs at the loading zones, then we would not be able to attain our daily target of 10-12 trains,” Mr Bernard Osero, KPA Head of Corporate Affairs, said.


CC: Teargass n Kafrican

Hii habari inaonyesha incompetencies from the KPA officials, how do you deny your core responsibilities by stating that it is the KRC who are supposed to bring the cranes. Who runs the port?

Geza Ulole said:

Kuna Kwala ICD na pia SGR Tanzania itafika Dar port pia! especially to fit with BRT project around the area! As for ur SGR in Mombasa u probably don't know this is what happened u got right off cranes!

The faulty standard gauge railway (SGR) gantry cranes at the Mombasa port on Thursday, May 16, 2019. The port has been forced to rely on Kenya Ports Authority cranes to load SGR containers. PHOTO | KEVIN ODIT | NATION MEDIA GROUP

In Summary

• Documents seen by the Sunday Nation reveal that in December last year, KRC asked the Chinese SGR operator to ensure the six mounted cranes were in use.
• The Chinese appeared to have ignored the instructions prompting a letter in January this year to CRBC general manager for operation Li Jiuping with similar demands that has also not been responded to.

By ALLAN OLINGO
More by this Author
Six giant cranes installed at the port of Mombasa to improve the loading and unloading of containers on the Standard Gauge Railway (SGR) have never worked since they were brought in two years ago at a cost of Sh2 billion, the Sunday Nation can reveal.

SAFETY
The rail-mounted cranes at Port Reitz were bought by the China Road and Bridge Corporation as part of the controversial SGR operations and maintenance contract to handle cargo on the Mombasa-Nairobi SGR. However, according to sources at the port, the massive equipment malfunctioned before breaking down and being abandoned by the contractor. CRBC built and operates the Chinese-funded SGR, which is Kenya’s single largest investment.

Investigations by the Sunday Nation reveal that the SGR operations at the port now largely depend on the rubber-tyred gantry cranes and those owned by the Kenya Ports Authority with little or no explanation on why the multi-billion-shillings investment is sitting idle.

Even more puzzling is that CRBC appears to have ignored communication from the Kenya Railways Corporation (KRC) to ensure that the cranes are either replaced or put in use. Each of the cranes cost Sh355 million, a figure that has also raised questions.

A port official who was present when the cranes were first tested, but who spoke in confidence, said they dropped the containers and appeared out of control, raising safety concerns.

IGNORED
“CRBC was asked to fix the problem. They brought in experts from China who failed to resolve the issue. They seemed to have given up and abandoned them,” said our source at the port.

Despite tests and inspections by China Hoisting and Conveying Equipment Quality Supervision Centre, the suppliers, in the presence of CRBC and KRC representatives in mid-October last year, the cranes have still not been put to use, putting into doubt the viability of this investment at the expense of the taxpayer.

Documents seen by the Sunday Nation reveal that in December last year, KRC asked the Chinese SGR operator to ensure the six mounted cranes were in use. The Chinese appeared to have ignored the instructions prompting a letter in January this year to CRBC general manager for operation Li Jiuping with similar demands that has also not been responded to.

On Saturday, Mr Sandy Feng, a CRBC communications official, said the company was not in a position to address the issues raised over the usage of the cranes and referred us to KRC.

“We appreciate your concerns over this matter and the operation of the SGR. However, as for the question you have raised, we suggest that you reach out to Kenya Railways Corporation to get much of the information you are seeking,” Mr Feng said despite indications in our enquiry that his company was responsible for the procurement and operations of the cranes.

KRC did not immediately respond to the questions redirected to them. However, Transport Cabinet Secretary James Macharia admitted that the cranes have never been used due to their operational challenges, adding that the country should expect new cranes in the next few months.

TARGET
“The cranes will be replaced by CRBC. We had a meeting with them on Thursday and that was the agreement. The first two cranes are expected to be replaced in the next few weeks. I am made to understand that their shipment has already started. Eventually, we shall get new replacements for the six,” Mr Macharia told Sunday Nation.

The situation has now forced Kenya Ports Authority (KPA) to move in and use its cranes to perform the tasks that CRBC was supposed to have done, depending on eight rubber-tyred gantry cranes to assist in loading, offloading and movement of containers around the yard. The port agency has also distanced its self from the non-functioning cranes, saying they are just a host of the CRBC and KRC. KPA said its six Rail Mounted Gantry (RMG) Cranes manufactured in China by ZPMC Ltd are working.

“We have an RMG station with the six cranes providing loading zones namely lines Z4, Z7, Z8, Z9 and Z10, whereby Z4 and Z9 are dedicated for loading of dangerous cargo on SGR. From these loading zones, the cranes are used to load the bloc trains. Without these six RMGs at the loading zones, then we would not be able to attain our daily target of 10-12 trains,” Mr Bernard Osero, KPA Head of Corporate Affairs, said.

Puzzle of idle Sh2bn giant SGR cranes at Mombasa port

Each of the Chinese cranes cost Sh355 million, a figure that has raised questions.

www.nation.co.ke

CC: Teargass n Kafrican

Click to expand...

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Ngokongosha said:

Kafrican is trying to show how expensive is tz sgr compared to the one in Kenya, but he need to know the followings,

1. Electrification
Saying tz sgr is expensive because some of the expenses are covered by Tanesco, eg TL, this is wrong
Because Kenya sgr is not electrified, so if they want to electrify it they gonna incur more cost, they will need a TL and the catenaries so the cost will jump rapidly,

2. Continuous welded
Kenya sgr is not welded, welding it means more cost.

Taking into consideration the two facts above still tz have got a better deal, if Kenya want to meet the standard of tz sgr by eg electrifying and welding their sgr the cost will increase tremendously.

So let us compare the cost at the same level without including the cost of the things Kenya sgr don't have like electrification

Click to expand...

Pia yetu inaweza kuhumili mzigo mzito zaidi.

Chamoto said:

Pia yetu inaweza kuhumili mzigo mzito zaidi.

Click to expand...

3. Axle load
axle load of 35 tons vs 25 axle load for SGR Kenya!
4. Speed
Pia speed 120km/h for cargo train vs 80 km/h SGR Kenya while 160km/h for PAX vs 110km/h SGR Kenya

CC: Kafrican alias Kifaru_07 , Teargass

Geza Ulole said:

3. Axle load
axle load of 35 tons vs 25 axle load for SGR Kenya!
4. Speed
Pia speed 120km/h for cargo train vs 80 km/h SGR Kenya while 160km/h for PAX vs 110km/h SGR Kenya

CC: Kafrican alias Kifaru_07 , Teargass

Click to expand...

Usilete data kama hizi unawaumiza jirani zetu japo ndo hali halisi,wamebakia kushikilia kwny stations badala ya mambo muhimu kabisa ambayo ni speed na uwezo wa treni kubeba mzigo.

WAKUDAMSH said:

kuna vtu ambavyo ni unnecessary kama lile liduara la plastiki pale Mombasa la nini wastage of money tu kwny kulijenga na kulimantain,utaskia imatch na theme,loool,weka urembo unapendezesha lkn una matokeo mengine chanya kwako

Click to expand...

Unaongelea hili?

Chamoto said:

Wachina waliwasoma wakenya vizuri na kugundua wanapenda sana kujimwambafai. Wakaona wakiwajengea vituo vikubwa, watapumbazwa na kupofushwa, wasimuone shetani aliyejificha kwenye maandishi ya mikataba.

Click to expand...

Ni bora wangewekeza kwenye railroad alignment na kufanya flash-butt,kwa ajili ya speed na kusmooth,Ni rahisi sana kujenga stations kuliko njia ya reli yenyewe.Ukikosea kwny kujenga njia ya reli imekula kwako mazima.

Chamoto said:

View attachment 1335050
Unaongelea hili?

Click to expand...

Kabisa mkuu.Na huo mnara kama hauna msaada kwa port ya Mombasa ntashaanga zaidi.

WAKUDAMSH said:

Yeah mkuu.Na huo mnara kama hauna msaada kwa port ya Mombasa ntashaanga zaidi.

Click to expand...

i thought a control tower! Mweeh so ni urembo tu! au ndo mambo ya theme ya Mnazi ku-represent the Coast in Kenya!

Geza Ulole said:

i thought a control tower! Mweeh so ni urembo tu! au ndo mambo ya theme ya Mnazi ku-represent the Coast in Kenya!

Click to expand...

🤣🤣 eti mnazi kwikwikwikwi itakuwa Control Tower.Leo wameenda wapi mbona kimya kbs au thread imesusiwa tena kama kule.

90% n counting rehabilitation of NGR Moshi to Arusha

MY TAKE
Hii reli itasaidia sana kuongeza biaashara Tanga port!

Geza Ulole said:

3. Axle load
axle load of 35 tons vs 25 axle load for SGR Kenya!
4. Speed
Pia speed 120km/h for cargo train vs 80 km/h SGR Kenya while 160km/h for PAX vs 110km/h SGR Kenya

CC: Kafrican alias Kifaru_07 , Teargass

Click to expand...

The design speed for Kenya SGR in 200kph. Passenger locomotives can be changed to increase speed. Cargo speed isn't a big issue, since it's been on water for 1 month, 1 more hour saved isn't that urgent. Kenya isn't planning to carry heavy ore and minerals so I need for high axle load.
But there are many ways to run a railway, which fit the needs of a country. This doesn't mean what Kenya does is right and what TZ does is wrong or vice versa. For example, Kenya wanted many short trains shuffling with many crossing stations so cargo reaching the port had a train waiting to carry it instead of waiting for a long train to fill up and leave. Because Nairobi is close so saving time isn't a big factor.
Tz has taken the second scenario, long trains which fit better for the big distances they have to cover as towns are far from each other.
What is right for Tz does not mean it's right for Kenya.

Geza Ulole said:

3. Axle load
axle load of 35 tons vs 25 axle load for SGR Kenya!
4. Speed
Pia speed 120km/h for cargo train vs 80 km/h SGR Kenya while 160km/h for PAX vs 110km/h SGR Kenya

CC: Kafrican alias Kifaru_07 , Teargass

Click to expand...

Let's start from the start. Where is that your train, we want to see it. How many kilometres has it covered?

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