CCT, TEC na BAKWATA mtahukumiwa

CCT, TEC na BAKWATA mtahukumiwa

Unajua dini nyingi zinaanzia rohoni zinaishia mwilini.

Ndio maana makanisa hayaachi kufunguliwa kila kukicha ni kazi ya Mungu kuweza kutafuta wateule angalau wachache wakwenda kuishi naye.

Kumbuka Bwana Yesu alisurubishwa na viongozi wakubwa wa dini enzi hizo kwa kumshinikiza pirato ambaye naye alikuwa na maslahi nao yaani pilato na viongozi wa dini aka mafalisayo aka masadukayo aka wanafiki aka wachujao mbu na kumeza ngamia aka wasalio sara ndeefu na kukaa viti vya mbele katika masinagogi aka walao kwa wajane walikuwa kitu kimoja.

Hii hata sasa ipo na inasababishwa na watumishi wapenda fedha za aibu za wanasiasa. Tumpate wapi Yohana mbatizaji katika taifa letu anakaye mwambia Herode pale anapokosea hata ikiwa ni kuhatarisha maisha yake ila makavu ampe waziwazi kweupe. Yamkini Gwajima aisee.
 
nivoj.sued said:
Katika dola isiyofungamana na dini yoyote, viongozi wa Kanisa hawana amri juu ya vyama vya siasa au serikali kuhusu jambo lolote. Sababu ni hii: hawana locus standi inayowawezesha kufanya jambo hilo. Kwa nini? Mamlaka ya viongozi wa kisiasa na mamlaka ya viongozi wa kikanisa vina machimbuko mawili tofauti. Wakati mamlaka ya viongozi wa kisiasa yanatoka kwa watu moja kwa moja kupitia sanduku la kura, mamlaka ya viongozi wa dini yanatokana na "kuteuiliwa na Mungu" asiyetambulika serikalini. Kwa kifupi, mambo yako hivi:

"In a secular democratic society power of governance comes from the people. In the church, on the contrary, power of governance or jurisdiction does not originate from the will of the community of the faithful who constitute the ecclesial society. Instead, its origin is sacramental. It comes from its Founder, Jesus Christ himself. It is based on the power given to Peter and other apostles (Mt. 16: 18-19; 28:18; Jn. 20:22-23). Even today it is to the pastors chosen by him that the power of governance is given. For example, a parish priest who preaches the Gospel with all his apostolic authenticity and who presides over the Eucharistic celebration is the one who is not elected by his parishioners by voting but sent by his bishop. The same logic applies to the Bishop who is sent from Vatican to the Diocese by the Pope."

Sasa watu wa aina hii wanawezaje kuwa na mamlaka juu ya serikali iliyochaguliwa kidempokrasia? Kwa unyenyekevu mkubwa napenda kusema kwamba watu wa aina hii hawana locus standi inayowapa mamlaka juu ya serikali isiyofungamana na dini yoyote. Hii ndio maana niliwahi kulikosoa Jukwaa la Wakristo pale walipoanza kubeba ajenda ya Lowassa dhidi ya JPM bila kutambua.
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Umeandika/umenukuu vizuri, but the bottomline ni kuwa wana interact na watu and therefore are part and parcel of peoples' problems and have to take care of their problems. Moreover, they are regulated by the government! Thy have a right to say that this is not the right way to "regulate us or our followers! Wao hawaishi na Mungu huko "mbinguni" wanaishi na waumini wao. Kama kuna tatizo katika jumuiya wanayoishi wana ulazima wa kulisemea.
 
Mkuu kwa sasa dini karibu zote naweza kukiri wamebadili ule msemo wa ya kaisari mpe kaisari ya mungu mpe mungu sasa hivi wana msemo usemao ya mungu mpe kaisari na ya kaisari mpe kaisari sasa kaisari anapewa mara mbili mkuu! Hizi dini kwa sasa kama ni mwelewa ukiona mwanao anapenda sana kanisani chunguza anakuwa shetani muda si mrefu
 
Mimi huwa naendelea kuuliza swali "Hivi,Tanzania huwa kuna viongozi wa DINI au JINI?"
 
CHUAKACHARA said:
Umeandika/umenukuu vizuri, but the bottom line ni kuwa wana interact na watu and therefore are part and parcel of peoples' problems and have to take care of their problems. Moreover, they are regulated by the government! Thy have a right to say that this is not the right way to "regulate us or our followers! Wao hawaishi na Mungu huko "mbinguni" wanaishi na waumini wao. Kama kuna tatizo katika jumuiya wanayoishi wana ulazima wa kulisemea.
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Hoja yangu inahusu mbinu ya kufanya hilo--mode of operation.
Hujajitamka vizuri katika jambo hili.
Nakusubiri.
 
Lizaboni said:
Wa kuwajibika hapo ni CHADEMA wanaotaka kumjaribu Rais
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Lizaboni;
Hivi hii nayo utaenda kinga mkono upate buku 7?? Hapa ni nani mjaribu wa mwengine?? Mleta mada ameomba viongozi wa dini wawaendee hawa viongozi huenda kukatokea badiliko.
Wadhani unyenyekevu kwa kiongozi mbele za Mungu ni udhaifu?? Sio kweli bali ni ukomavu na Mungu anahitaji walio komaa kuwaongoza wenzao.
 
nivoj.sued said:
Katika dola isiyofungamana na dini yoyote, viongozi wa Kanisa hawana amri juu ya vyama vya siasa au serikali kuhusu jambo lolote. Sababu ni hii: hawana locus standi inayowawezesha kufanya jambo hilo. Kwa nini? Mamlaka ya viongozi wa kisiasa na mamlaka ya viongozi wa kikanisa vina machimbuko mawili tofauti. Wakati mamlaka ya viongozi wa kisiasa yanatoka kwa watu moja kwa moja kupitia sanduku la kura, mamlaka ya viongozi wa dini yanatokana na "kuteuiliwa na Mungu" asiyetambulika serikalini. Kwa kifupi, mambo yako hivi:

"In a secular democratic society power of governance comes from the people. In the church, on the contrary, power of governance or jurisdiction does not originate from the will of the community of the faithful who constitute the ecclesial society. Instead, its origin is sacramental. It comes from its Founder, Jesus Christ himself. It is based on the power given to Peter and other apostles (Mt. 16: 18-19; 28:18; Jn. 20:22-23). Even today it is to the pastors chosen by him that the power of governance is given. For example, a parish priest who preaches the Gospel with all his apostolic authenticity and who presides over the Eucharistic celebration is the one who is not elected by his parishioners by voting but sent by his bishop. The same logic applies to the Bishop who is sent from Vatican to the Diocese by the Pope."

Sasa watu wa aina hii wanawezaje kuwa na mamlaka juu ya serikali iliyochaguliwa kidempokrasia? Kwa unyenyekevu mkubwa napenda kusema kwamba watu wa aina hii hawana locus standi inayowapa mamlaka juu ya serikali isiyofungamana na dini yoyote. Hii ndio maana niliwahi kulikosoa Jukwaa la Wakristo pale walipoanza kubeba ajenda ya Lowassa dhidi ya JPM bila kutambua.
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You said it all. Aliye likoroga alinywe mwenyewe.
 
TEC haiwezi kufanya kazi kwa mihemko mkuu, sio wakurupukaji kutoa matamko bila kufikiria kwa makini, TEC wapo imara.
 
nivoj.sued said:
Katika dola isiyofungamana na dini yoyote, viongozi wa Kanisa hawana amri juu ya vyama vya siasa au serikali kuhusu jambo lolote. Sababu ni hii: hawana locus standi inayowawezesha kufanya jambo hilo. Kwa nini? Mamlaka ya viongozi wa kisiasa na mamlaka ya viongozi wa kikanisa vina machimbuko mawili tofauti. Wakati mamlaka ya viongozi wa kisiasa yanatoka kwa watu moja kwa moja kupitia sanduku la kura, mamlaka ya viongozi wa dini yanatokana na "kuteuiliwa na Mungu" asiyetambulika serikalini. Kwa kifupi, mambo yako hivi:

"In a secular democratic society power of governance comes from the people. In the church, on the contrary, power of governance or jurisdiction does not originate from the will of the community of the faithful who constitute the ecclesial society. Instead, its origin is sacramental. It comes from its Founder, Jesus Christ himself. It is based on the power given to Peter and other apostles (Mt. 16: 18-19; 28:18; Jn. 20:22-23). Even today it is to the pastors chosen by him that the power of governance is given. For example, a parish priest who preaches the Gospel with all his apostolic authenticity and who presides over the Eucharistic celebration is the one who is not elected by his parishioners by voting but sent by his bishop. The same logic applies to the Bishop who is sent from Vatican to the Diocese by the Pope."

Sasa watu wa aina hii wanawezaje kuwa na mamlaka juu ya serikali iliyochaguliwa kidempokrasia? Kwa unyenyekevu mkubwa napenda kusema kwamba watu wa aina hii hawana locus standi inayowapa mamlaka juu ya serikali isiyofungamana na dini yoyote. Hii ndio maana niliwahi kulikosoa Jukwaa la Wakristo pale walipoanza kubeba ajenda ya Lowassa dhidi ya JPM bila kutambua.
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Unaweza kuwa sahihi kwa upande mmoja lakini ukawa umekosea kwa upande mwingine. Kwanza, hakuna anayepinga juu ya hiyo "locus standi", watu wote wenye akili ya kawaida tu wanafahamu kwamba viongozi wa dini hawana mamlaka juu ya serikali, lakini kuna kitu kinaitwa "checks and balance" ndicho ambacho viongozi wa dini wanapaswa kusimamia. Kutokuwa na hiyo "locus standi" haina maana kwamba viongozi wa dini wageuke mabubu hata kama mambo hayaendi vizuri katika taifa. Kwa bahati nzuri taifa letu halijapata kuongozwa/kutawaliwa na mpagani, hivyo nguvu ya kufanya hiyo "checks and balance" wanaipata kutokana na kuwa wao ndio "wazazi wa kiroho" wa hawa watawala/viongozi.Na jambo zuri zaidi ni kwamba wao wenyewe watawala/viongozi wanatambua nguvu waliyonayo viongozi wa kidini.

Katika dunia ya leo isiyokuwa chini ya waroma suala la "locus standi" halipaswi kutumika kama kiwezeshi/kisababishi cha viongozi wa dini kufumba macho na kuziba midomo yao wakati kuna viashiria vya wazi kwamba hali sio shwari, na walio katikati ya mtanzuko huo ni kondoo wao ambao ndio wanaowezesha huduma wanazozisimamia kwa zaka na sadaka ambazo hutoa kila Jumapili (na Ijumaa?) kwenye makusanyiko. Je, viongozi wa dini wanasubiri damu ya kondoo wao imwagike ndipo wasimame kukemea? Mwinjilisti Kusupa amewaonyesha pa kuingilia wanaweza kutia mguu BWANA atakapowagusa!
 
chabusalu said:
Unaweza kuwa sahihi kwa upande mmoja lakini ukawa umekosea kwa upande mwingine. Kwanza, hakuna anayepinga juu ya hiyo "locus standi", watu wote wenye akili ya kawaida tu wanafahamu kwamba viongozi wa dini hawana mamlaka juu ya serikali, lakini kuna kitu kinaitwa "checks and balance" ndicho ambacho viongozi wa dini wanapaswa kusimamia. Kutokuwa na hiyo "locus standi" haina maana kwamba viongozi wa dini wageuke mabubu hata kama mambo hayaendi vizuri katika taifa. Kwa bahati nzuri taifa letu halijapata kuongozwa/kutawaliwa na mpagani, hivyo nguvu ya kufanya hiyo "checks and balance" wanaipata kutokana na kuwa wao ndio "wazazi wa kiroho" wa hawa watawala/viongozi.Na jambo zuri zaidi ni kwamba wao wenyewe watawala/viongozi wanatambua nguvu waliyonayo viongozi wa kidini.

Katika dunia ya leo isiyokuwa chini ya waroma suala la "locus standi" halipaswi kutumika kama kiwezeshi/kisababishi cha viongozi wa dini kufumba macho na kuziba midomo yao wakati kuna viashiria vya wazi kwamba hali sio shwari, na walio katikati ya mtanzuko huo ni kondoo wao ambao ndio wanaowezesha huduma wanazozisimamia kwa zaka na sadaka ambazo hutoa kila Jumapili (na Ijumaa?) kwenye makusanyiko. Je, viongozi wa dini wanasubiri damu ya kondoo wao imwagike ndipo wasimame kukemea? Mwinjilisti Kusupa amewaonyesha pa kuingilia wanaweza kutia mguu BWANA atakapowagusa!
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Umeandika vizuri. Taasisi za kidini kama sehemu ya civil society wanayo nafasi katika "checks and balances" za dola. Tatizo langu bado hujaligusa. Ni halali kwa viongozi wa makanisa kutumia mbinu za kina Niemoller na Bonhoeffer zdhidi ya serikali, kama ambavyo tamko la Chadema kuhusu UKUTA linapendekeza? Ongelea mode of operation plz.
 
Kibo255 said:
Ukifikiria hawa viongozi Wa hizi taasisi unaweza acha kwenda ibadani ukawa unamuomba Mungu nyumbani kwako tu Mungu tu ndio anajua kipimo cha unafiki wao
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Mkuu unaelekea una mengi ya moyoni kuh hao viongozi
Pole sana lkn kumbuka Mungu anawaona..
 
nivoj.sued said:
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Umeandika vizuri. Taasisi za kidini kama sehemu ya civil society wanayo nafasi katika "checks and balances" za dola. Tatizo langu bado hujaligusa. Ni halali kwa viongozi wa makanisa kutumia mbinu za kina Niemoller na Bonhoeffer zdhidi ya serikali, kama ambavyo tamko la Chadema kuhusu UKUTA linapendekeza? Ongelea mode of operation plz.
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Sijui umeiibua wapi hii hoja ya viongozi wa makanisa kutakiwa kutumia mbinu za akina Niemoller dhidi ya serikali, bali nimeona mahali Chadema wakigusia kuwa viongozi wa dini wanapaswa kuonya dhidi ya uvunjaji wa katiba-nadhani wanamaanisha kuzuiwa kufanya mikutano. Inaniwia vigumu kuongelea hiyo unayoita 'mode of operation'! Hata hivyo, kama Chadema na upinzani kwa ujumla mtazamo wao ni kuwa kuna uvunjwaji wa katiba katika eneo hilo na kuna kundi la watu wanakubaliana na mtazamo huo, basi wanayo haki kushirikiana na viongozi wa dini wenye mtazamo sawa na wao katika eneo hilo, ili kuzuia huo "uvunjaji wa katiba" kwa maana hao viongozi wa dini watakuwa wanatekeleza sehemu ya wajibu wao!Na mgongano huu wa kimtazamo sio dhambi!
 
Katika historia rwanda na ujerumani viongozi wa kidini waliogopa kukemea makosa ya watawala matokeo yake palitokea mauaji ya kimbari. Kwa hapa nchini ukimya wao unazidi kumvimbisha kichwa huyu uchwara tulienae na taifa linaweza kuelekea kwenye maafa.
 
Just stop it. Wote mumekuwa na siasa. Hawa wakuu wa dini wanatakiwa kuonya serikali isitumie nguvu kwa maandamano ambayo ni ya amani. Itakuwa aibu sana kama ataumizwa hata mtu moja. Mkuu akitaka ushindi aamue police walinde waandamanaji.
 
Na viongezi hawa wa dini wasipoongea na matatizo ya watu kuuwa ama kiumizwa ni aibu na damu yao ni juu yao.
 
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