As Gold Price climbs, the sore looser we become!


Rev. Kishoka

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Rev. Kishoka

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Just imagine if we were receiving 30% of price of gold an ounce in comparison to 3%!

Yesterday, Gold reached high place by selling itself at price of $1420 an ounce. Sasa Mchungaji akifanya mahesabu ya haraka ya kupembua 30% au 3% jibu ni: je kipi ni bora kupata $426.00 au $42.60?

BBC News - Gold price rises on inflation and Europe worries

Gold price rises on inflation and Europe worries

_49857349_000163782-1.jpg
Investors are stocking up on gold
The price of gold has hit another record high as investors worry about inflation and Europe's budget troubles.
It hit $1,421 an ounce at 1030 GMT.
The price has now risen by 7% since the US central bank announced last week its plan to inject $600bn (£372bn) into the American economy.
Investors worry this will lead to higher inflation, and are also concerned about the state of the Irish Republic's economy as it tries to cut its budget deficit.
Gold is traditionally seen as a haven for investors at times of economic stress.
Printing presses
Some economists say higher inflation could be on the way after the US Federal Reserve's decision to effectively print huge sums of money to try to stimulate the economy.
Continue reading the main story “Start Quote

The gold market is swimming in uncharted waters”
End Quote Ong Yi Ling Analyst
The move has also been criticised by other countries, which fear large inflows of money into their stock and property markets, which can be destabilising.
As well as this, there are renewed questions about the stability of one of Europe's economies.
The Irish Republic is struggling to convince the bond markets that it does not need financial help from the European Union or the International Monetary Fund.
Continue reading the main story
FOREX GOLD INDEX(PM FIX) $/OZ

Last Updated at 08 Nov 2010, 11:20 ET
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pricechange%1388.50 - -7.00
- -0.50
More data on this commodity
Dublin will soon unveil its new budget as it tries to cut its deficit from a huge 32%, but there is mounting concern it may not be approved by the Irish parliament, the Dail.
The price of gold has risen by 29% this year.
"With record highs set in quick succession, the gold market is swimming in uncharted waters," said Ong Yi Ling of Phillip Futures in Singapore.
"The asset purchases of the US and debt problems in the eurozone provide a compelling backdrop for gold prices to continue appreciating on a longer term basis."
Meanwhile, the price of silver has risen to $28 an ounce, its highest level since March 1980.
 

Kamundu

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Kamundu

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Kishoka ngoja nikupe ukweli ulivyo.

Tanzania imesainishwa mkataba wa ajabu sana kwani 3% wanayopata si kwa market price ya sasa bali kwa hedge price waliopewa wakati wa mkataba na siyo zaidi ya $500 kwa ann. Kampuni ya Gold iliwaambia Tanzania kwamba bei haitabadilika kwa sababu Investor wao wame hedge bei ya $400-$500 hivyo hata kama bei ikipanda wenyewe wataendelea kulipa kiasi hiki. Hivyo Kishoka ni lazima uelewe 3% Tanzania inayopata siyo ya market rate ya sasa ya $1400 kama ni hivyo tungetapa pesa zaidi kwa kiasi kinachouzwa.
 

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Kishoka ngoja nikupe ukweli ulivyo.

Tanzania imesainishwa mkataba wa ajabu sana kwani 3% wanayopata si kwa market price ya sasa bali kwa hedge price waliopewa wakati wa mkataba na siyo zaidi ya $500 kwa ann. Kampuni ya Gold iliwaambia Tanzania kwamba bei haitabadilika kwa sababu Investor wao wame hedge bei ya $400-$500 hivyo hata kama bei ikipanda wenyewe wataendelea kulipa kiasi hiki. Hivyo Kishoka ni lazima uelewe 3% Tanzania inayopata siyo ya market rate ya sasa ya $1400 kama ni hivyo tungetapa pesa zaidi kwa kiasi kinachouzwa.
nakubaliana na wewe kwa upande mmoja na upande wa pili, kunakuwa na price adjustment kidogo in case bei ikipanda sana japokuwa ni kweli kwamba kuna kuwa na fixed price, lakini hapa (Tanzania) Tatizo kubwa haliko hapo, matatizo tuliyonayo ni haya
1) kwamba serikali ilishindwa kujua ni jinsi gani ya kumiliki hizo lisence za madini baada ya kuzitoa mikononi mwa STAMICO, hizo leseni zilienda kwa watu binafsi na makampuni binafsi kwa asilimia 100% maana kuwa serikali haina kitu hapo, ambapo ni tofauti na Botswana kuwa Madini yote ni mali ya serikali, kwa sababu hao watu walishamilikiswha kwa 100% mali ikipatikana unakuta serikali haina % yoyote pale na wanachopata ni huruma tu na kodi, Lakini kwa Botswana mwekezaji akija anapewa ardhi ya kufanya utafiti bure bila kulipia wala kumilikishwa, na mali ikipatikana serikali wanakwambia kwa sababu wao ndio wenye mali na wewe ni mwekezaji basi share ni 50-50, lakini baadae serikali inakuja kupunguza share zake kwa sababu huyo mwekezaji alitumia gharama kufanya utafiti, pia serikali inamwachia mwekezaji ku-run mgodi na kulipa overhead cost zote (mishahara, power, water nk) na mwisho serikali inabaki na 30% ya share + Kodi, hapo lazima serikali ipate fedha
kwa Tanzania kuna mgodi mmoja wa Barrick Tulawaka, huo mgodi upo kwenye ardhi aliyomilikiswha kampuni moja inaitwa MDN, sasa Barrick ndio wana-run huo mgodi na unatumia jina la Barrick, lakini MDN wana 30% ambayo hawaifanyii kazi yoyote ambapo serikali ya Tanzania ingeweza kwa katika nafasi hiyo ya MDN, serikali inapata huruma ya 3% na kodi tu

2) kitu kingine ambacho serikali imekifanya ni kutotumia wataalamu wa madini kwenye maiaktaba yao, kwa sababu kiutaalamu uchimabji wa dhahabu wa GEita gold mine hauwezi kuwa sawa na Resolute na pia hauwezi kuwa sawa na Bulyanhulu, na maana hiyo hata mikataba haiwezi kuwa sawa, hapa serikali ilipaswa kutoza kodi kulingana na gharama za uzalishaji za kila mgodi na pia si sahihi kuiambia kila mgodi utoe 200000US, kwa maana migodi yote haifanani kwa uzalishaji na quality ya dhahabu

Madini sio kitu cha kuform kwa muda mfupi ni process za milins of years na ya kiisha ni basi imetoka, kwa hiyo ni muhimu kwa serikali kutumia lrasilimali hizo kwa uangalifu sana, LAKINI KWA TANZANIA SIO RAISI, IKIWA MTU (KALAMAGI) ANAKIMBILIA UK KWENDA KUSAINI UJINGA BILA KUJUA SERIKALI ITAPATA NINI
 

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Hii kitu inauma kama umechomwa kisu. Yaani hata hiyo gawiwo la 3% hawakufikiria kupanda na kushuka kwa bei!!!!!!!!!! nadhani si bure, hata mi nikijenga nyumba yangu na elimu yangu ndogo siwezi ipangisha kwa kodi hiyohiyo for milele!!

nini kifanyike jamani. mi nadhani tunahitaji kiongozi mwenye udikteta kidogo ila awe na vision nzuri. hawa wawekezaji warudi mezani upya na kwa terms zetu watake wasitake. Nahisi hata utawala uliopo unalindwa na hawa wawekezaji kwa kuwapatia hata hela za kuchakachua na kampeni, hawataki mabadiliko.

kama unataka ona kitu cha ajabu eti tunapongezwa na IMF na world bank kwa kuwa na hali nzuri ya kuwekeza, wakati ilitakiwa tushutumiwe; tunapokea kila aina ya ushauri wao, kweli bila mabadiliko sijui watoto wetu watatuonaje wakisoma historia eti TZ ilikuwa ya 3 africa kwa kuzalisha dhahabu bila kutaja rasilimali zingine.

Rev, inasikitisha sana maana si tupo kwenye 500 sio 1400 $
 

Rev. Kishoka

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Rev. Kishoka

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Ni mpuuzi gani huyo alikubali kughilibiowa na kuingia mkataba mrefu wa bei ya dola 500? Tangu lini wameona bei ya pipa la maffuta au almasi ikawa stagnant?
 

Mtanganyika

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Mtanganyika

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Rev Kishoka,

Sijaona mchango wako kwenye swala la Uchaguzi 2010, hivyo ikabidi nikusearch kuona upo wapi. Hili la dhababu kweli tunapata 3% based on 500 fixed market rate. Wao walitudanganya kuchagua fixed au flactuate market, wakubwa wakachagua fixed.

Sasa ukishangaa ya Musa utaona ya Firauni, juzi nikiwa kibaruani nikaona email kuhusu Tanzania na uchimbaji wa mafuta. Wazungu wanapanga mkakati wa kuingia Tanzania, na wanasifia serikali ambayo ipo royal kwa wakezaji sababu BG group ana own 60% ya Rig zone zote tatu, 28% wana own seismic company kutoka UK. Na sisi wenye mafuta yetu tuna own 12%..... Mkataba ushasigniwa kimya kimya na mabwana wanangoja kugida.

Sasa nikaangalia haraka haraka. Seismic study ya hapo maeneo ya maeneo ya Mtwara inaweza kucost 17Mill USD. Hiyo ni kukusanya data, kuzisoma and everything. Maana kama tunahire seismic company na tukawalipa 17 Million wanaweza kutukusanyia data, wakazisoma na wakatupa majibu. Kisha sisi tukauza Data kwa kushindanisha wanunuzi, au tukaingia mkataba na wachimbaji kwa profit/cost sharing.

Nazungumzia hili sababu naoversea project kadhaa Brazil and Algeria nafahamu cost ya kukusanya data. Sasa hawa wanaserikali kwa nini wanaendelea kutupeleka chaka?
 

RAJ PATEL JR

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RAJ PATEL JR

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Rev Kishoka,

Sijaona mchango wako kwenye swala la Uchaguzi 2010, hivyo ikabidi nikusearch kuona upo wapi. Hili la dhababu kweli tunapata 3% based on 500 fixed market rate. Wao walitudanganya kuchagua fixed au flactuate market, wakubwa wakachagua fixed.

Sasa ukishangaa ya Musa utaona ya Firauni, juzi nikiwa kibaruani nikaona email kuhusu Tanzania na uchimbaji wa mafuta. Wazungu wanapanga mkakati wa kuingia Tanzania, na wanasifia serikali ambayo ipo royal kwa wakezaji sababu BG group ana own 60% ya Rig zone zote tatu, 28% wana own seismic company kutoka UK. Na sisi wenye mafuta yetu tuna own 12%..... Mkataba ushasigniwa kimya kimya na mabwana wanangoja kugida.

Sasa nikaangalia haraka haraka. Seismic study ya hapo maeneo ya maeneo ya Mtwara inaweza kucost 17Mill USD. Hiyo ni kukusanya data, kuzisoma and everything. Maana kama tunahire seismic company na tukawalipa 17 Million wanaweza kutukusanyia data, wakazisoma na wakatupa majibu. Kisha sisi tukauza Data kwa kushindanisha wanunuzi, au tukaingia mkataba na wachimbaji kwa profit/cost sharing.

Nazungumzia hili sababu naoversea project kadhaa Brazil and Algeria nafahamu cost ya kukusanya data. Sasa hawa wanaserikali kwa nini wanaendelea kutupeleka chaka?
Go JK!
 

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Kumbe wendawazimu wanao semaga "bora kuzaliwa mbwa ulaya kuliko kuzaliwa binadamu bongo" hawa kukosea! Sasa hawa walio ingia mikataba ya kishetani hivi, na ndiyo wasomi kama CHENGE alivyobobea kwenye masuala ya sheria ali-ingia mkataba wa namana na bado tunamchagua, jamani, si heri umezaliwa dog kwa Malikia!

Ngoja nilie kidogo, mkataba wa 3% milele utafikiri madini yatarudi tena! Hapana nchi hii tumekuwa na upole wa kijinga, ndiyo! Tunahutaji mwendawazimu arekebishe hili! Nakumbuka Hugo Chavez alikuta ujinga kama huu wakati anachukua Venezula. Alipiga BIG STOP akafururmua mikataba ya kihayawani, sasa hivi nchi yake inanufaika na rasilimali za nchi.
 

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Ni mpuuzi gani huyo alikubali kughilibiowa na kuingia mkataba mrefu wa bei ya dola 500? Tangu lini wameona bei ya pipa la maffuta au almasi ikawa stagnant?
Rev. If I remember the 3% royalty ws based on net profit accrued by a miner. As such most companies were not paying it kwa kisingizio cha kupata hasara. I stand to be corrected.
 

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Hata hiyo 3% haifiki yote kwa serikali kama 1.5% inabaki kwa kampuni ya kuhakiki zamani walikuwa Alex Stewards sijui sasa ni nani.Hiyo ya kubadili mikataba inawezekana kijana mdogo tuliemlea hapa Joseph Kabila alipoingia madarakani akasema haitambui mikataba yote ya madini waelewane upya makampuni yakalalamika na serikali za Magharibi kumtisha lakini akasema kama hawataki baada ya miezi sita atawapa Wachina migodi yote wakasalimu amri wanapata 15-20% ya bei ya soko kwa wakati huu.
 

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King kingo

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Rev Kishoka,

Sijaona mchango wako kwenye swala la Uchaguzi 2010, hivyo ikabidi nikusearch kuona upo wapi. Hili la dhababu kweli tunapata 3% based on 500 fixed market rate. Wao walitudanganya kuchagua fixed au flactuate market, wakubwa wakachagua fixed.

Sasa ukishangaa ya Musa utaona ya Firauni, juzi nikiwa kibaruani nikaona email kuhusu Tanzania na uchimbaji wa mafuta. Wazungu wanapanga mkakati wa kuingia Tanzania, na wanasifia serikali ambayo ipo royal kwa wakezaji sababu BG group ana own 60% ya Rig zone zote tatu, 28% wana own seismic company kutoka UK. Na sisi wenye mafuta yetu tuna own 12%..... Mkataba ushasigniwa kimya kimya na mabwana wanangoja kugida.

Sasa nikaangalia haraka haraka. Seismic study ya hapo maeneo ya maeneo ya Mtwara inaweza kucost 17Mill USD. Hiyo ni kukusanya data, kuzisoma and everything. Maana kama tunahire seismic company na tukawalipa 17 Million wanaweza kutukusanyia data, wakazisoma na wakatupa majibu. Kisha sisi tukauza Data kwa kushindanisha wanunuzi, au tukaingia mkataba na wachimbaji kwa profit/cost sharing.

Nazungumzia hili sababu naoversea project kadhaa Brazil and Algeria nafahamu cost ya kukusanya data. Sasa hawa wanaserikali kwa nini wanaendelea kutupeleka chaka?
Naona sasa wataalam mmeamua kuzungumza haya ngoja tuone maana serikali yenu haimini kama nyie mnaweza kusimamia haya mambo kwa faida ya taifa ndio maana wanakazania wataalam na wanyonyaji wao kutoka nje
 

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Nchi kama India wao wameamua kutumia consultant kusoma Data, wanaita Seismic company zinakusanya Data kisha wanahire kampuni za kusoma and consultant wao wanasoma. Hii ni cheap way..... Tanzania tunabahati ya kuwa karibu na Nchi za Arabia ambazo kampuni nyingi sana zimeweka station ya equipment. Hivyo cost za kumobilize equipment kwa kampuni hizi i am sure ni less than 1Million, sababu Kampuni nyingi zipo Libya and Algeria.

Kusavei, Kulaza cable na kushuti kwa eneo lote la kusini mwa bahari ya Hindi ni less than 10Mill USD.... Then kusoma tunaweza kuhire private consultant company wakasoma. Kisha sisi tukauza data kwa makapuni ya kudrill.... Sio guarantee kwamba tuna mafuta, lakini Gas peke yake inaweza kulipia cost zote ambazo tuimeingia. Data tunaweza kuuza kwa faida, plus eneo ni letu tunaweza kuingia mkataba wa 70-30%, maana kwamba sisi tuna eneo, kampuni ya mafuta wana equipment and capital basi wao wawekeze then profit tunashare 70 to 30. Kisha TAX tunawalamba kama kawaida, this include income tax. Maana wakituma Bill kwa yeyote atakae kuwa ndio mnnuzi sisi tunakula income tax pale, na mwisho wa mwaka tunawatandika tena tax.

Kusema kwamba hakuna watanzania kwenye sector ya mafuta ni wazimu. Mimi najua zaidi ya 5 ambao ni Senior level kwenye sector mbali mbali za mafuta... especial Geo-staff.... wapo waliofanya na KBR, Exxon, Chevron, BP and many more.... Tanzania haitaki watu kama hawa sababu ya 10%.

Angola inaandaa Job Fair Ulaya na America kuchukua wananchi wao kwenda kusaidia nchi yao..... Sisi Jee? JK anakuja kwenye mikutano na kuwaambia watu msirudi nyinyi bakini huku.
 

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Kituko

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Hata hiyo 3% haifiki yote kwa serikali kama 1.5% inabaki kwa kampuni ya kuhakiki zamani walikuwa Alex Stewards sijui sasa ni nani.Hiyo ya kubadili mikataba inawezekana kijana mdogo tuliemlea hapa Joseph Kabila alipoingia madarakani akasema haitambui mikataba yote ya madini waelewane upya makampuni yakalalamika na serikali za Magharibi kumtisha lakini akasema kama hawataki baada ya miezi sita atawapa Wachina migodi yote wakasalimu amri wanapata 15-20% ya bei ya soko kwa wakati huu.
Sasa kuna Agency ya serikali ilikuwa inaitwa TGA (Tanzania Gold Audit Agency), lakini sasa wameibadilisha na kuwa TMAA (Tanzania Minerals Auditing Agency), wana perform vizuri sana sana, last year walijitahidi sana kukusanya hicho kidogo tulichojipimia kutoka kwenye mali zetu wenyewe, Lakini nayo naona imeshaanza kuingiziwa mizengwe na Wizara ya madini Pamoja na TRA kwa madai kuwa wanawaingilia kazi zao,
 

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Kishoka ngoja nikupe ukweli ulivyo.

Tanzania imesainishwa mkataba wa ajabu sana kwani 3% wanayopata si kwa market price ya sasa bali kwa hedge price waliopewa wakati wa mkataba na siyo zaidi ya $500 kwa ann. Kampuni ya Gold iliwaambia Tanzania kwamba bei haitabadilika kwa sababu Investor wao wame hedge bei ya $400-$500 hivyo hata kama bei ikipanda wenyewe wataendelea kulipa kiasi hiki. Hivyo Kishoka ni lazima uelewe 3% Tanzania inayopata siyo ya market rate ya sasa ya $1400 kama ni hivyo tungetapa pesa zaidi kwa kiasi kinachouzwa.
Kwa investor ambaye ni makini bei ya dhahabu inapokuwa juu kupindukia atajitahidi ku-buyback hedge ili kunufaika na bei ya soko. Mkuu nitashangaa sana kama bado kuna makampuni ya dhahabu hapa nchini ambayo bado wana hedge account.

Haiingii akilini hivi ni kweli ??
 

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Ikimita

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Ni mpuuzi gani huyo alikubali kughilibiowa na kuingia mkataba mrefu wa bei ya dola 500? Tangu lini wameona bei ya pipa la maffuta au almasi ikawa stagnant?
Mkuu kwa hili tusiwalaumu sana. Inawezekana hiyo bei dola 500 kwa wakati ule ilikuwa ni mara mbili ya bei ya soko halafu umeshawekeza kiasi chote cha pesa ulichokuwa nacho sasa unahitaji kukopa kuendelea na uwekezaji. Hiyo bei yaweza kuwa inalipa kukuwezesha kuendelea na mradi ama kuokoa pesa ya mtaji.

Pamoja na kwamba bei ya almasi au mafuta sio stagnant lakini kwa kiasi gani unaweza kusubiri. Hedges japo zina gharama zake lakini zinatoa certainty kwa nyakati ambazo bei zinakuwa ziko chini sana.
 

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Gelange Vidunda

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Ni mpuuzi gani huyo alikubali kughilibiowa na kuingia mkataba mrefu wa bei ya dola 500? Tangu lini wameona bei ya pipa la maffuta au almasi ikawa stagnant?
One guy who occupied the coveted Attorney General's office! They call him Andrew Chenge, aka Vijisenti. He screwed us Tanzanians big time "with no vaseline" as NWA's Ice Cube would say!
 

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Zakumi

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Kuna uwezekano mkubwa kuwa bei ya dhahabu itashuka katika kipindi cha miaka miwili. Kwa mtaji huu Tanzania katika kipindi hiki inashindwa kufaidika na ongezeko la bei hiyo.

Lakini kwa upande mwingine, model ya uchumi ya Tanzania haifai. Siku zote serikali ya Tanzania ikipata pesa inaongeza matumizi yake kwenye miradi isiyo na maana. Hivyo basi ongezeko la bei ya dhahabu katika kipindi cha muda mfupi linaweza kuwa na negative effects kwa uchumi wa Tanzania.
 

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Kaa la Moto

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Kishoka ngoja nikupe ukweli ulivyo.

Tanzania imesainishwa mkataba wa ajabu sana kwani 3% wanayopata si kwa market price ya sasa bali kwa hedge price waliopewa wakati wa mkataba na siyo zaidi ya $500 kwa ann. Kampuni ya Gold iliwaambia Tanzania kwamba bei haitabadilika kwa sababu Investor wao wame hedge bei ya $400-$500 hivyo hata kama bei ikipanda wenyewe wataendelea kulipa kiasi hiki. Hivyo Kishoka ni lazima uelewe 3% Tanzania inayopata siyo ya market rate ya sasa ya $1400 kama ni hivyo tungetapa pesa zaidi kwa kiasi kinachouzwa.
Mmmhhh rudia tena!? mbona unahamsha hasira zangu zilizokuwa zimeanza kupotea? Mama weeeeeeeeee
 

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Kaa la Moto

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nakubaliana na wewe kwa upande mmoja na upande wa pili, kunakuwa na price adjustment kidogo in case bei ikipanda sana japokuwa ni kweli kwamba kuna kuwa na fixed price, lakini hapa (Tanzania) Tatizo kubwa haliko hapo, matatizo tuliyonayo ni haya
1) kwamba serikali ilishindwa kujua ni jinsi gani ya kumiliki hizo lisence za madini baada ya kuzitoa mikononi mwa STAMICO, hizo leseni zilienda kwa watu binafsi na makampuni binafsi kwa asilimia 100% maana kuwa serikali haina kitu hapo, ambapo ni tofauti na Botswana kuwa Madini yote ni mali ya serikali, kwa sababu hao watu walishamilikiswha kwa 100% mali ikipatikana unakuta serikali haina % yoyote pale na wanachopata ni huruma tu na kodi, Lakini kwa Botswana mwekezaji akija anapewa ardhi ya kufanya utafiti bure bila kulipia wala kumilikishwa, na mali ikipatikana serikali wanakwambia kwa sababu wao ndio wenye mali na wewe ni mwekezaji basi share ni 50-50, lakini baadae serikali inakuja kupunguza share zake kwa sababu huyo mwekezaji alitumia gharama kufanya utafiti, pia serikali inamwachia mwekezaji ku-run mgodi na kulipa overhead cost zote (mishahara, power, water nk) na mwisho serikali inabaki na 30% ya share + Kodi, hapo lazima serikali ipate fedha
kwa Tanzania kuna mgodi mmoja wa Barrick Tulawaka, huo mgodi upo kwenye ardhi aliyomilikiswha kampuni moja inaitwa MDN, sasa Barrick ndio wana-run huo mgodi na unatumia jina la Barrick, lakini MDN wana 30% ambayo hawaifanyii kazi yoyote ambapo serikali ya Tanzania ingeweza kwa katika nafasi hiyo ya MDN, serikali inapata huruma ya 3% na kodi tu

2) kitu kingine ambacho serikali imekifanya ni kutotumia wataalamu wa madini kwenye maiaktaba yao, kwa sababu kiutaalamu uchimabji wa dhahabu wa GEita gold mine hauwezi kuwa sawa na Resolute na pia hauwezi kuwa sawa na Bulyanhulu, na maana hiyo hata mikataba haiwezi kuwa sawa, hapa serikali ilipaswa kutoza kodi kulingana na gharama za uzalishaji za kila mgodi na pia si sahihi kuiambia kila mgodi utoe 200000US, kwa maana migodi yote haifanani kwa uzalishaji na quality ya dhahabu

Madini sio kitu cha kuform kwa muda mfupi ni process za milins of years na ya kiisha ni basi imetoka, kwa hiyo ni muhimu kwa serikali kutumia lrasilimali hizo kwa uangalifu sana, LAKINI KWA TANZANIA SIO RAISI, IKIWA MTU (KALAMAGI) ANAKIMBILIA UK KWENDA KUSAINI UJINGA BILA KUJUA SERIKALI ITAPATA NINI
Unadhani Karamagi alikuwa hajui anakwenda kusaini nini? Thubutu, alikuwa anajua bwana. Nyaraka zinaonyesha alizuiwa na watendaji wa wizara na ndio sababu ili kuwapiga chenga aliamua kwenda kusainia kule UK. Yaani mkataba unafanyika in the other country's soil. mhhhhh.
 

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