alexanderhist
New Member
- Feb 3, 2020
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A question about possible remote folklore memories of Masudi's "Zanj empire" in present Tanzania.
Dear forum visitors and participants! First of all please excuse me for using English - I'm not Swahili-speaker; I add below a Swahili translation of this post but I apologize for inebitable mistakes in it. Then please excuse me if my post will be judged as off-topic here - on the one hand my question deals with remote past times of c. 900 AD, but on the other hand it deals with the present state of historical memories and folk legends in Tanzania, that's why I dare to ask it here.
I am a historian from Russia and work in Moscow, mainly I study Ancient Near Eastern history and those memories and legends about it which are found in medieval Arab works. While studying Masudi, the famous Arab author of 10th century, I've dealt with his well-known account about a vast African realm of the "Zanj" which existed c. 900 AD. Masudi says that it included many tribes and kingdoms of the Zanj and was headed by one supreme king titled "mfalme" to whom lesser Zanj kings with the same title "mfalme" were subjected. They were non-Islamic Bantu and their main god had a name Mkulunjulu. According to Masudi, united army of the Zanj under the command of supreme mfalme of the Zanj was of 300 000 mounted warriors (who were riding not on horses, but on bulls and cows) and his realm was of 4000 kilometers of length along East African coast and 4000 kilometers of width from the coast in inland direction. All these numbers are obviously exaggerated (Masudi generally exaggerates many distances in Africa and the Indian Ocean in two or more times compared with reality), but its obvious that this Zanj realm was really a very large one.
While telling about this Zanj realm Masudi mentions lands Sofala and Waq-Waq (= Zambezi basin / Mozambique and Zimbabwe + South Afrrica). The beginning of the next phrase in Mssudi's text is rather obscure. Many scholars think that Masudi wanted to imply here that Sofala and Waq-Waq are those territories where the capital and central lands of this Zanj empire were situated (then this capital will be, perhaps, Zimbabwe). Only a few specialists (two of them from Russia) understood Masudi's tect in another way and thought that this Zanj realm and its capital were situated in East Africa, mainly on the territories of Tanzania and Kenya, and not in South Africa. While checking this question, I could find, I hope, some considerations and proofs in favor of this latter idea - that the said great Zanj realm of 900 AD and its capital were situated in East Africa. If it is true, then this realm (preceding to so-called Shirazi dynasties of Swahili city-states) constitutes a bright page of history of East Africa, especially Tanzania, not of South Africa, and is to be restored on its rightful place. I've published on this subject in Russian and a shortened English translation of this publication (with the link to it) is here: https://www.academia.edu/41808399/Waqlimi
Thereby I dare to ask this forum visitors and participants the following question: may be somebody has heard any tales, folk legends etc. about amy of the following matters:
- about some large East African realm of remote times which included not obly coastal zone and islands, but vast territories of present Tanzania and may be even Rwanda and Burundi;
- about some great supreme East African rulers of old times, may be even with titke "mfalme" or so;
- about warriors of old times who were riding not on horses, but on cows and bulls;
- about any god, deity, spirit etc. with a name alike Mkulunjulu.
If anyone has heard anything of the kind, it could mean, I think, that some remote memories of this first "Zanj" realm in Tanzania - East Africa (described by Masudi), are still living somehow among Tanzanians. Any answer in Swahili (as well as in English) will be greatly appreciated, of course - I can translate and get translations from Swahili somehow, I dont know it rather well to speak it etc.
Once more let me apologize if all of this would be assumed for off-topic here, in this case I'm very sorry and beg your pardon.
Alexander Nemirovskii.
In Kiswahili (sorry for mistakes)
Maswali juu ya hadithi na hadithi zinazowezekana juu ya "ufalme wa Zanj" (ilivyoelezewa na Masudi) nchini Tanzania.
Ndugu wapenzi wa mkutano na washiriki! Kwanza kabisa, ninaomba msamaha kwa kuwa ninatumia Kiingereza - sijui kiswahili vizuri; Ninaongeza chini tafsiri ya Kiswahili ya chapisho hili lakini ninaomba msamaha kwa makosa yaliyomo.
Mimi ni mwanahistoria kutoka Urusi na hufanya kazi huko Moscow, mimi husoma historia ya Karibu na Mashariki ya mapema na kumbukumbu hizo na hadithi juu yake ambazo hupatikana katika kazi za Kiarabu za zamani. Wakati nikisoma Masudi, mwandishi maarufu wa Kiarabu wa karne ya 10, nimeshughulikia akaunti yake inayojulikana ya ufalme mkubwa wa "Zanj" wa Kiafrika ambao ulikuwepo c. 900 AD. Masudi anasimulia kwamba ni pamoja na makabila na falme nyingi za Zanj na ilitawaliwa na mfalme mmoja mkuu, na wafalme wa chini wa Zanj walitiwa chini yake. Hawakuwa Waislamu na jina la mungu wao mkuu alikuwa Mkulunjulu. Kulingana na Masudi, jeshi la umoja la mfalme huyu mkubwa wa Zanj walikuwa na mashujaa 300,000 (hawakupanda farasi, lakini kwa ng'ombe) na ufalme wake ulikuwa kilomita 4000 kando ya pwani ya Afrika Mashariki na kilomita 4000 kutoka pwani kwenda magharibi. Nambari hizi ni kubwa zaidi kuliko inavyowezekana katika hali halisi (Masudi kawaida huzidi umbali katika Afrika na Bahari ya Hindi mara mbili au zaidi kuliko vile walivyokuwa katika hali halisi), lakini ni wazi kuwa ufalme huu wa Zanj ulikuwa mkubwa kweli.
Wakati wa kuzungumza juu ya ufalme huu Zanj Masudi anataja ardhi Sofala na Waq-Waq (= Zambezi bonde / Msumbiji na Zimbabwe + Afrika Kusini). Mwanzo wa aya inayofuata katika maandishi ya Masudi sio wazi sana. Wasomi wengi wanafikiria kwamba Masudi alitaka kuashiria hapa kwamba Sofala na Waq-Waq walikuwa wilaya ambazo mji mkuu na bara la ufalme huu wa Zanj ulipatikana (kwa njia hiyo mji mkuu ungekuwa, labda, Zimbabwe).
Wasomi wachache tu (wawili kati yao kutoka Urusi) walielewa maandishi hayo tofauti na walidhani Masudi alitaka kusema kwamba ufalme huu wa Zanj na kituo chake walikuwa Afrika Mashariki (haswa Tanzania na Kenya), na sio Afrika Kusini. Ninapoangalia swali hili, nimeona, natumahi, uthibitisho kadhaa wa wazo hili la mwisho - kwamba ufalme huu mkubwa wa Zanj wa 900 AD na mji mkuu wake ulikuwa Afrika Mashariki. Ikiwa hii ni kweli, basi ufalme huu (na ilikuwa mapema kuliko nasaba ya Shirazi) ni ukurasa wa historia ya Afrika Mashariki na Tanzania, sio historia ya Afrika Kusini, na ukurasa huu lazima urejeshewe mahali pake. Nimeandika juu ya mada hii kwa Kirusi na nimetoa tafsiri ya Kiingereza ya kazi hii hapa: https://www.academia.edu/41808399/Waqlimi
Kwa hivyo ninathubutu kuwauliza washiriki wa mkutano huu swali lifuatalo: Je! Kuna mtu yeyote amesikia hadithi yoyote, hadithi za watu nk kuhusu kufuata vitu:
- kuhusu ufalme wa Afrika Mashariki wa nyakati za mbali ambazo hazikujumuisha pwani na visiwa tu, bali wilaya kubwa za Tanzania na, inaweza kuwa, Rwanda na Burundi;
- kuhusu watawala wakuu wa Afrika Mashariki katika nyakati za zamani, jina lake "mfalme";
- kuhusu majeshi au mashujaa wa nyakati za zamani ambao hawakupanda farasi, lakini walikuwa wakipanda ng'ombe;
- kuhusu mungu yeyote, roho nk ambaye jina lake au epithet alikuwa Mkulunjulu.
Ikiwa kuna mtu yeyote amesikia chochote cha aina hiyo, inaweza kumaanisha, nadhani, kwamba kumbukumbu kadhaa za mbali za ufalme huu wa kwanza wa "Zanj" nchini Tanzania / Afrika Mashariki (iliyoelezewa na Masudi), bado unaishi kwa njia fulani kati ya watanzania. Majibu yoyote kwa Kiswahili (na pia kwa Kiingereza) yangethaminiwa sana, kwa kweli - naweza kutafsiri na kupata tafsiri kutoka Kiswahili kwa njia fulani.
Tafadhali nisamehe ikiwa yote haya yanazingatiwa kuwa off-topic, basi naomba msamaha kwa hilo.
Wako mwaminifu
Alexander Nemirovskii.
Dear forum visitors and participants! First of all please excuse me for using English - I'm not Swahili-speaker; I add below a Swahili translation of this post but I apologize for inebitable mistakes in it. Then please excuse me if my post will be judged as off-topic here - on the one hand my question deals with remote past times of c. 900 AD, but on the other hand it deals with the present state of historical memories and folk legends in Tanzania, that's why I dare to ask it here.
I am a historian from Russia and work in Moscow, mainly I study Ancient Near Eastern history and those memories and legends about it which are found in medieval Arab works. While studying Masudi, the famous Arab author of 10th century, I've dealt with his well-known account about a vast African realm of the "Zanj" which existed c. 900 AD. Masudi says that it included many tribes and kingdoms of the Zanj and was headed by one supreme king titled "mfalme" to whom lesser Zanj kings with the same title "mfalme" were subjected. They were non-Islamic Bantu and their main god had a name Mkulunjulu. According to Masudi, united army of the Zanj under the command of supreme mfalme of the Zanj was of 300 000 mounted warriors (who were riding not on horses, but on bulls and cows) and his realm was of 4000 kilometers of length along East African coast and 4000 kilometers of width from the coast in inland direction. All these numbers are obviously exaggerated (Masudi generally exaggerates many distances in Africa and the Indian Ocean in two or more times compared with reality), but its obvious that this Zanj realm was really a very large one.
While telling about this Zanj realm Masudi mentions lands Sofala and Waq-Waq (= Zambezi basin / Mozambique and Zimbabwe + South Afrrica). The beginning of the next phrase in Mssudi's text is rather obscure. Many scholars think that Masudi wanted to imply here that Sofala and Waq-Waq are those territories where the capital and central lands of this Zanj empire were situated (then this capital will be, perhaps, Zimbabwe). Only a few specialists (two of them from Russia) understood Masudi's tect in another way and thought that this Zanj realm and its capital were situated in East Africa, mainly on the territories of Tanzania and Kenya, and not in South Africa. While checking this question, I could find, I hope, some considerations and proofs in favor of this latter idea - that the said great Zanj realm of 900 AD and its capital were situated in East Africa. If it is true, then this realm (preceding to so-called Shirazi dynasties of Swahili city-states) constitutes a bright page of history of East Africa, especially Tanzania, not of South Africa, and is to be restored on its rightful place. I've published on this subject in Russian and a shortened English translation of this publication (with the link to it) is here: https://www.academia.edu/41808399/Waqlimi
Thereby I dare to ask this forum visitors and participants the following question: may be somebody has heard any tales, folk legends etc. about amy of the following matters:
- about some large East African realm of remote times which included not obly coastal zone and islands, but vast territories of present Tanzania and may be even Rwanda and Burundi;
- about some great supreme East African rulers of old times, may be even with titke "mfalme" or so;
- about warriors of old times who were riding not on horses, but on cows and bulls;
- about any god, deity, spirit etc. with a name alike Mkulunjulu.
If anyone has heard anything of the kind, it could mean, I think, that some remote memories of this first "Zanj" realm in Tanzania - East Africa (described by Masudi), are still living somehow among Tanzanians. Any answer in Swahili (as well as in English) will be greatly appreciated, of course - I can translate and get translations from Swahili somehow, I dont know it rather well to speak it etc.
Once more let me apologize if all of this would be assumed for off-topic here, in this case I'm very sorry and beg your pardon.
Alexander Nemirovskii.
In Kiswahili (sorry for mistakes)
Maswali juu ya hadithi na hadithi zinazowezekana juu ya "ufalme wa Zanj" (ilivyoelezewa na Masudi) nchini Tanzania.
Ndugu wapenzi wa mkutano na washiriki! Kwanza kabisa, ninaomba msamaha kwa kuwa ninatumia Kiingereza - sijui kiswahili vizuri; Ninaongeza chini tafsiri ya Kiswahili ya chapisho hili lakini ninaomba msamaha kwa makosa yaliyomo.
Mimi ni mwanahistoria kutoka Urusi na hufanya kazi huko Moscow, mimi husoma historia ya Karibu na Mashariki ya mapema na kumbukumbu hizo na hadithi juu yake ambazo hupatikana katika kazi za Kiarabu za zamani. Wakati nikisoma Masudi, mwandishi maarufu wa Kiarabu wa karne ya 10, nimeshughulikia akaunti yake inayojulikana ya ufalme mkubwa wa "Zanj" wa Kiafrika ambao ulikuwepo c. 900 AD. Masudi anasimulia kwamba ni pamoja na makabila na falme nyingi za Zanj na ilitawaliwa na mfalme mmoja mkuu, na wafalme wa chini wa Zanj walitiwa chini yake. Hawakuwa Waislamu na jina la mungu wao mkuu alikuwa Mkulunjulu. Kulingana na Masudi, jeshi la umoja la mfalme huyu mkubwa wa Zanj walikuwa na mashujaa 300,000 (hawakupanda farasi, lakini kwa ng'ombe) na ufalme wake ulikuwa kilomita 4000 kando ya pwani ya Afrika Mashariki na kilomita 4000 kutoka pwani kwenda magharibi. Nambari hizi ni kubwa zaidi kuliko inavyowezekana katika hali halisi (Masudi kawaida huzidi umbali katika Afrika na Bahari ya Hindi mara mbili au zaidi kuliko vile walivyokuwa katika hali halisi), lakini ni wazi kuwa ufalme huu wa Zanj ulikuwa mkubwa kweli.
Wakati wa kuzungumza juu ya ufalme huu Zanj Masudi anataja ardhi Sofala na Waq-Waq (= Zambezi bonde / Msumbiji na Zimbabwe + Afrika Kusini). Mwanzo wa aya inayofuata katika maandishi ya Masudi sio wazi sana. Wasomi wengi wanafikiria kwamba Masudi alitaka kuashiria hapa kwamba Sofala na Waq-Waq walikuwa wilaya ambazo mji mkuu na bara la ufalme huu wa Zanj ulipatikana (kwa njia hiyo mji mkuu ungekuwa, labda, Zimbabwe).
Wasomi wachache tu (wawili kati yao kutoka Urusi) walielewa maandishi hayo tofauti na walidhani Masudi alitaka kusema kwamba ufalme huu wa Zanj na kituo chake walikuwa Afrika Mashariki (haswa Tanzania na Kenya), na sio Afrika Kusini. Ninapoangalia swali hili, nimeona, natumahi, uthibitisho kadhaa wa wazo hili la mwisho - kwamba ufalme huu mkubwa wa Zanj wa 900 AD na mji mkuu wake ulikuwa Afrika Mashariki. Ikiwa hii ni kweli, basi ufalme huu (na ilikuwa mapema kuliko nasaba ya Shirazi) ni ukurasa wa historia ya Afrika Mashariki na Tanzania, sio historia ya Afrika Kusini, na ukurasa huu lazima urejeshewe mahali pake. Nimeandika juu ya mada hii kwa Kirusi na nimetoa tafsiri ya Kiingereza ya kazi hii hapa: https://www.academia.edu/41808399/Waqlimi
Kwa hivyo ninathubutu kuwauliza washiriki wa mkutano huu swali lifuatalo: Je! Kuna mtu yeyote amesikia hadithi yoyote, hadithi za watu nk kuhusu kufuata vitu:
- kuhusu ufalme wa Afrika Mashariki wa nyakati za mbali ambazo hazikujumuisha pwani na visiwa tu, bali wilaya kubwa za Tanzania na, inaweza kuwa, Rwanda na Burundi;
- kuhusu watawala wakuu wa Afrika Mashariki katika nyakati za zamani, jina lake "mfalme";
- kuhusu majeshi au mashujaa wa nyakati za zamani ambao hawakupanda farasi, lakini walikuwa wakipanda ng'ombe;
- kuhusu mungu yeyote, roho nk ambaye jina lake au epithet alikuwa Mkulunjulu.
Ikiwa kuna mtu yeyote amesikia chochote cha aina hiyo, inaweza kumaanisha, nadhani, kwamba kumbukumbu kadhaa za mbali za ufalme huu wa kwanza wa "Zanj" nchini Tanzania / Afrika Mashariki (iliyoelezewa na Masudi), bado unaishi kwa njia fulani kati ya watanzania. Majibu yoyote kwa Kiswahili (na pia kwa Kiingereza) yangethaminiwa sana, kwa kweli - naweza kutafsiri na kupata tafsiri kutoka Kiswahili kwa njia fulani.
Tafadhali nisamehe ikiwa yote haya yanazingatiwa kuwa off-topic, basi naomba msamaha kwa hilo.
Wako mwaminifu
Alexander Nemirovskii.
