Jibu la prof Sheriff kwa prof Tibaijuka

[takashi]

The points raised by Mr. Sheriff are interesting. Using the same logic one could then argue that Professor Bilal as Union Vice President from Zanzibar should only be dealing with the 12 union matters and should not be involved in any non union matter. Likewise Tanzania Ambassadors abroad who are from Zanzibar should not represent Tanzania in any non uniun matter - this should be done by the indigenous mainland officers at their embassies. For a full professor to argue as such shows the naivette and jingoism of this Jussa Group.

too shallow...

 

[FJM]

Pumba...Zaki Meghji anawakilisha Zanzibar??? katumwa na nani kutoka Zanzibar??? Balozi SEIF Iddi ,kiongozi wa serikali katika baraza amesema yeye hajui wala hana taarifa...Meghji anawakilisha Bara sio ZAnzibar.

How convinent? Zakia Meghji sio kichaa. ukiachia watoto wake familia yake yote iko Zanzibar. Na kwenye huu msafaraka kawakalisha Zanzibar. Na kwenye huo msafara alikuwepo afisa mwingine toka wizara ya Ardhi ya Zanzibar. Hakuna mtu anahoji aliendaje? au alimwambie boss wake anaenda New York kufanya nini. Hata hivyo, kama leo mnataka kumkana Zakia, inabidi mtoe hukumu hiyo hiyo kwa Dr Hussein Mwinyi. Yule alikuwa mbunge huku bara, sasa hivi anawakilisha jimbo la Zanzibar na familia yake inaishi bara including baba yake Mzee Ali Hassan Mwinyi. Mbona hamkuhoji Dr Hussein wakati anagombea ubunge kupitia Zanzibar?

Kuhusu Balozi Seif Idd, soma vizuri majibu yangu. Nilisema wamuulize Dr Shein ambaye ni mjumbe wa baraza wa mawaziri ngazi ya muungano. Balozi Seif na makamu wa pili wa rais wa Zanzibar na sio mjumbe wa cabinet muungano. Hivi kwa nini msikazie uzi kwa Shamhuna? Wanajua kichwa chake kinapata moto ndio maana wanamgusa na kujificha nyuma ya jina la Prof. Tibaijuka.

Bado narudia, kama kuna kasoro kwenye huu mchakato njia anazotumia Jussa za kuhamasisha watu kukaa mkao wa kupigana hadi kufa ndio sahihi? Hata hivyo wabunge toka Zanzibar (Dr Hussein Mwinyi included) wanaweza kuleta hoja kwenye bunge la muungano. Tusibiri kama watafanya hivyo au watachukua posho na kutukana yoyote yule 'anayetishia muungano'.

 

[FJM]

Mimi namfahamu vilivyo huyo Bi Zakia Hamdan na alipokuwa chuo cha Ushirika Moshi aliolewa na Prof Ramadhani Maghji na kufanya kubadilisha jina na kujiita Zakia meghji.

Ni mtu wangu wa karibu sana hata watoto wake akina Mahir (Rasta) na Nyangu nawafahamu pia.

Kifupi huyu hana sifa za kuitwa mzanzibar na wala hata kadi ya uraia wa Znz. yeye ni mtu wa Bara.

Kumbuka ili upate kitambulisho cha Uraia wa Znz ni lazima ukae Znz kwa miaka mitano ndani ya Znz .

Hapo kwenye red umenikumbusha jambo. Dr Shein alikuwa amekaa miaka mingapi Zanzibar kabla ya kupiga kura na hata kuwa rais wa Zanzibar 2010? Na kwa ufahamu wangu hakuna kitu kinaitwa 'uraia' wa Zanzibar ila 'ukaazi' wa Zanzibar na Dr Shein hakuwa na sifa za kupata kitambulisho cha ukaazi mwaka 2010. I believe in miracle!

 

[nahavache]

Is it true that this article was written by the one who has been introduced as Professor?

huyo professor anayejichanganya namna hiyo na kingereza chake kimekaa kushoto namna hiyo anatudhalilisha

 

[Iddy]

Tukiendelea kung'ang'ania huu muungano wa serikali mbili, matatizo hayatakwisha hata siku moja. Imefika wakati tuangalie moja kati ya options zifuatazo:-
1. Tuwe na serikali 3, ya Zanzibar, ya Tanganyika na ya Muungano.
2. Tuwe na serikali moja tu ya Muungano ili Wazanzibar nao wakubali kuipoteza serikali yao kama ilivyofanya Tanganyika
3. Tuuvunje Muungano ili kila nchi iangalie mambo yake yenyewe, Tanganyika ipate uhuru wake kwa mara nyingine na zanzibar pia iachane na "mkoloni" Tanzania.
Vinginevyo tuking'ang'ania sera za ccm za muundo wa serikali mbili, tujiandae kwa matatizo makubwa zaidi siku za mbeleni.

Umenena ukweli

 

[takashi]

Huyo profesa ni mganga wa jadi nini?

Ndio pr.A. Tibaijuka ni mganga wa jadi

 

[mpemba mbishi]

Hebu kuleni huo uzi hapo juu muone maneno ya Wazanzibari!

 

[elmagnifico]

mimi nataman sana muungano ufe maana wazanzibari wamekuwa watu wa kulalamika kwa kila kitu sasa.
Bora tutengane kabla mambo hayajawa mabaya na sisi wabaara ndiyo naona kama vile tunabembeleza huu muungano. Kuepusha makubwa.

 

[Molemo]

Huyu ni professor uchwara

 

[FJM]

Tukiendelea kung'ang'ania huu muungano wa serikali mbili, matatizo hayatakwisha hata siku moja. Imefika wakati tuangalie moja kati ya options zifuatazo:-
1. Tuwe na serikali 3, ya Zanzibar, ya Tanganyika na ya Muungano.
2. Tuwe na serikali moja tu ya Muungano ili Wazanzibar nao wakubali kuipoteza serikali yao kama ilivyofanya Tanganyika
3. Tuuvunje Muungano ili kila nchi iangalie mambo yake yenyewe, Tanganyika ipate uhuru wake kwa mara nyingine na zanzibar pia iachane na "mkoloni" Tanzania.
Vinginevyo tuking'ang'ania sera za ccm za muundo wa serikali mbili, tujiandae kwa matatizo makubwa zaidi siku za mbeleni.

Nakubaliana na wewe kwenye no 1 &3. Ama serikali tatu au tugawane mbao yaishe. Serikali moja itakuwa mgogoro.

 

[takashi]

Kwa OMBI hili la Tibaijuka? Semeni agenda yenu bwana. Chukueni hatua za wazi. USSR waliweza, Yugoslavia waliweza, Eritrea wameweza, Sudan iliyokuwa moja sasa ziko mbili, tatizo lenu mnafanya mambo kwa visingizio vya kike sana.

it is downloading ...tumebakisha labda 20%. Tutafika tu. Vizuri hata watanganyika wengi tu, hawakotayari kuendelea kushirikishwa katika dhuluma kwa maslahi ya K.....

 

[Mwakalinga Bujo]

Is it true that this article was written by the one who has been introduced as Professor?

Kumbe hata wewe umejiuliza swali hilo!

 

[chakupewa]

Hata mie nashangaa! Kama huyu aliendika ni Prof, then I am Obama - yes the Pres of USA!

Unajua sisi watanganyika siku zote hatutaki kujibu hoja, ama tunakimbilia matusi, dharau na fitna, badala ya kujibu hoja, tunajifanya kujua sana wakati .........?

 

[Ngongo]

Huu Muungano uvunjiliwe mbali kila kitu kiko shabalabaghala.

 

[Kalunguine]

Jamani wazenji wapewe watakacho waende kuepusha shari.

 

[WildCard]

it is downloading ...tumebakisha labda 20%. Tutafika tu. Vizuri hata watanganyika wengi tu, hawakotayari kuendelea kushirikishwa katika dhuluma kwa maslahi ya K.....

Kila la kheri ili tuondokane na kadhia hii. Hata ingekuwa ndoa ya kanisani na ina watoto ingeshavunjika kwa vituko na kejeli hizi.

 

[mkomatembo]

Ndugu zangu waZanzibari msikubali dhuluma hii, mie nilistuka sana kuona hiyo ramani mpya ta Tanzania baada ya kuongezwa hilo eneo! loh jamani hivi kweli pesa ni bora kuliko utu? leo Zakia Meghji anaenda kuwauza wenzake kama kuku wapo kwenye matenga ? utadhani mbuzi wapo kwenye zizi? msikubali... na ni bora Muungano uvunjike kwa sababu waZanznibari walikuwa na maendeleo makubwa sana kabla ya muungano ! na nina hakika wangekuwa mbali sana wakati huu na bila shaka tungekuwa tunawaonea choyo sisi wa bara! kwa hakika nawaombea kila la kheri na ipo siku watakuwa huru ! Amin

 

[takashi]

How convinent? Zakia Meghji sio kichaa. ukiachia watoto wake familia yake yote iko Zanzibar. Na kwenye huu msafaraka kawakalisha Zanzibar. Na kwenye huo msafara alikuwepo afisa mwingine toka wizara ya Ardhi ya Zanzibar. Hakuna mtu anahoji aliendaje? au alimwambie boss wake anaenda New York kufanya nini. Hata hivyo, kama leo mnataka kumkana Zakia, inabidi mtoe hukumu hiyo hiyo kwa Dr Hussein Mwinyi. Yule alikuwa mbunge huku bara, sasa hivi anawakilisha jimbo la Zanzibar na familia yake inaishi bara including baba yake Mzee Ali Hassan Mwinyi. Mbona hamkuhoji Dr Hussein wakati anagombea ubunge kupitia Zanzibar?

Kuhusu Balozi Seif Idd, soma vizuri majibu yangu. Nilisema wamuulize Dr Shein ambaye ni mjumbe wa baraza wa mawaziri ngazi ya muungano. Balozi Seif na makamu wa pili wa rais wa Zanzibar na sio mjumbe wa cabinet muungano. Hivi kwa nini msikazie uzi kwa Shamhuna? Wanajua kichwa chake kinapata moto ndio maana wanamgusa na kujificha nyuma ya jina la Prof. Tibaijuka.

Bado narudia, kama kuna kasoro kwenye huu mchakato njia anazotumia Jussa za kuhamasisha watu kukaa mkao wa kupigana hadi kufa ndio sahihi? Hata hivyo wabunge toka Zanzibar (Dr Hussein Mwinyi included) wanaweza kuleta hoja kwenye bunge la muungano. Tusibiri kama watafanya hivyo au watachukua posho na kutukana yoyote yule 'anayetishia muungano'.

Watu kama Zakia (waliozaliwa znz) na kiushi bara wako wengi bara. Vile vile Wabara (waliozaliwa Tanganyika ) na wanaishi Zanzibar . Watu wa aina hii hawawakilishi serikali za mahala alipozaliwa. Niliwahi kuishi jimbo la Amaan Zanzibar 80s, wakati huo mbunge wetu alikuwa mzaliwa wa Tanganyika Mh, Justus Issak na aliwakilisha jimbo letu kama mbunge kutoka Zanzibar.

Baraza la mapinduzi kwa mujibu wa maelezo yaliyotolewa kutoka baraza la wawakilishi halikua na taarifa officially kuhusu nini kinaombwa na ujumbe wa pr.A. Tibaijua UN. Kama Baraza la Mapinduzi lingekuwa na taarifa basi maelezo yote yengejibiwa na Balozi Seif Iddi. Baada ya Shamuhuna kukiri kama yeye binafisi alijua lakini baraza la Mapinduzi halijui. Hapa ilichezwa deal kwa makusudi . Kwasababu Tanganyika walijua Baraza la Mapinduzi au Baraza la wawakilishi lina wajumbe wa chama cha upinzani.

Kwahiyi mambo yalipitishwa kinyume cha sheria ilikufanikisha agenda zao. Tibaijuka alisema yeye alipewa ruhusa na boss wake kwenda UN. Lakini hukukua na taarifa ya mjumbe aliyetoka Zanzibar kwenye baraza la Mapinduzi ila Shamuhuna yeye ndio aliyemtuma . Baraza la Mapinduzi ndio chombo kikuu cha maamuzi yote ya serikali ya UMK.

 

[Bobuk]

But all this still does not cover the substantive issue involved. It is well known that Foreign Affairs is a Union matter, and therefore any dealings with the UN has to involve the Minister of Foreign Affairs, even if the exact issue involves only one side of our Union. There are plenty of cases when this has been done about issues concerning non-Union matters of Mainland Tanzania. Abdul Sheriff

Jamani from the quotation above, kumbe kinacholalamikiwa with our learned Professor Sheriff ni "messenger" Prof Tibaijuka na wala sio "message" kuongezea EEZ.

If I get the learned Proffessor correctly the application was supposed to be tabled to the UN by Minister of foreign affairs not Minister of Land and urban settlement Prof Tibaijuka.

Wazanzibari kuwe wakweli stop shooting around the bush. Baada ya kugundua serikali yenu ilihusishwa kikamilifu tangu 2007, hadi kuwakilishwa UN now you are starting to shoot the messenger? And with your child brain you think it will help you?!.

Tundu Lissu alitoa mwarobaini wa kero hizi lakini wazanzibari wote (wabunge wa CCM na CUF) mkamzomea. Sasa lazima mukubali kutafuna jongoo, kama mwandishi yule wa Raia mwema livyozoea kusema.

 

[Rugemeleza]

HABARI ZENU,

The controversy about the extension of the sea boundary has come at the right time when Zanzibaris have shown that they will no longer be hijacked when their vital national interest are at stake, regardless of party affiliation. It was rather disingenuous for Prof Tubaijuka to try to introduce party divisions when she claimed that CUF was claiming that Zanzibar was not consulted.

If she heard the debate in the House of Representatives, it was almost unanimous, and prominent CCM backbenchers made a point of saying that this was not the question of CUF but of the whole of Zanzibar. She should not try to divide Zanzibaris again. We have suffered enough from such tactics.

It seems that mainland leaders feel that if you have a few Zanzibaris in your gang, then Zanzibaris are represented – and it is never difficult to get a few vibaraka, as we know all too well from our history. The question is whether the people in Zanzibar even knew this business was cooking – certainly the House of Representatives, a body that was elected by the whole people of Zanzibar, did not know about it until the professor was in New York presenting the document to the UN. I and many of my friends who try to keep up with events affecting our country were taken by surprise.

Prof Tibaijuka may be right that some people even in the Zanzibar Government may have been aware of this project, but the Minister of Lands in Zanzibar, Mr Shamhuna himself said in the House of Representatives that he know about it, but the Zanzibar Government did not know it officially.

The Executive Summary of Tanzania’s submission to the UN has 2 long lists of institutions and people who were involved in this project, but mentions only Shamhuna’s Ministry of Lands out of 9 institutions, and only one State Attorney from Zanzibar out of 8 members of the Technical Core Group.

Now Professor Tubaijuka mentions a few more names of Zanzibari ‘representative’, including my friend and former student Zakia Meghji, but if my memory serves me right, she used to be an MP for Moshi, and has never pretended to be representing Zanzibar except as a person who was born in Zanzibar. This is definitely a case of desperation in looking for Zanzibari faces.

But all this still does not cover the substantive issue involved. It is well known that Foreign Affairs is a Union matter, and therefore any dealings with the UN has to involve the Minister of Foreign Affairs, even if the exact issue involves only one side of our Union. There are plenty of cases when this has been done about issues concerning non-Union matters of Mainland Tanzania.

Therefore, it is not a favour to Zanzibar that once in a while the Ministry of Foreign Affairs has to take up the case when Zanzibar’s interests are concerned – it is our right, iof we are part of the Union. The same applies to the defence of Tanzania’s territorial boundaries, which include the now extended boundaries in the Indian Ocean – that is its responsibility.

But this does not mean that the Union Government therefore becomes the owner of all the resources within the territorial boundaries of Tanzania. The Articles of Union had defined 11 Union Matters that came under the Union Government, and the sea is not one of them. Since 1964, the Union Matters have been increased to 22, illegally according to Prof.

Shivji, but even in this extended list you will look in vain for the blue seas. It is for this reason that Prof. Tubaijuka is the Minister of Lands, Housing and Human Settlements Development (all non-Union matters), but the seas are not included. Why she was sent and not the Minister of Foreign Affairs is for the Union President to explain.

Therefore, it has to be admitted that since the oceanic resources are not a Union matter, but are of vital concern for the islands of Zanzibar which are surrounded by the sea on all sides, the people of Zanzibar have a direct stake in what is decided about their resources. And here it is not enough to mention a few names, however, highly placed they may be, and say Zanzibaris were represented.

The same argument was used in the case of the first draft of the Constitution Bill. Former Speaker Samuel Sitta claimed that Zanzibaris were consulted, naming the Zanzibar Minister of Good Governance and the AG, but it turned out that they were asked to submit their recommendations, but adopted only two out of 13, and threw the rest in the dustbin, and then went on to add many more without consulting even the Zanzibar Government.
Don’t they ever learn?

What the Representative Ismail Jussa was trying to do was to teach our Big Brother another lesson, and the mainland-based Swahili newspaper dares to ask him to apologise to Prof Tubaijuka?

I think it is Prof Tubaijuka and the Union Government that need to apologise to the people of Zanzibaris for trying once gain to take us for a ride. But as the old politician Hasan Nassor Moyo told Samuel Sitta, the new generation in Zanzibar is not the same as the old generation of the 1960s, and will not say ‘hewallah bwana.’

Abdul Sheriff
​

I wish to take a great exception to what Professor Shariff wrote in the quoted article. The Professor is quibbling when he says that Zanzibar was not involved in the entire process of applying for additional 150 nautical miles of the United Republic of Tanzania from its EEZ. It does not need a genius to understand that at the time of the union between Tanganyika and Zanzibar, the seaward boundary was 12 nautical miles what is called territorial sea. This is a right of each coastal state. Following the union, they became one republic within internal boundary but with one known international boundary. In 1982, the United National Conveniton on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) was passed and it came into operation in 1994. Tanzania took an active part in its formulation and Mzee Warioba was the President of the Conference that passed it in 1982. The concept of EEZ was presented by the Kenyan delegation in early stages of protracted UNCLOS negotiations. Kenyan was supported by other East African nations and eventually the concept gained international acceptance. EEZ is an automatic right of coastal state and way back in 1989, the URT government declared to the rest of the world of its EEZ vide Act No. 3 of 1989. The President at the time if Professor Shariff's memory still serves him right was none other than Alhaji Ali Hassan Mwinyi, a Zanzibari and he assented to that Act. Professor Shariff should also remember that oil and gas matter were added into a List of Union matters in 1969 by an Act of Parliament assented to by Sheikh Abeid Amani Karume, and who at the time was the President of Zanzibar and the First Vice President of the URT.

Professor Shariff would have us believe that the Ministry of Foreign Affairs was not involved in the entire process! What was the Tanzanian UN Delegation doing? Wasn't the Permanent Rep of Tanzania and his officials at the UN present? Who made the arrangements for Professor Tibaijuka's delegation to present that application if it was not the Foreign Affairs Ministry? The Old Professor should not allow himself to sink so low and become a "Kijiweni person". I do not want to believe that his departure from the University of Dar es Salaam has been accompanied by the deterioration his of thinking and analytical capacity!

Sadly, the Old Professor seeks to defend the indefensible and render credence to Jussa's gibberish utterances. Oil and Gas are part of the List of Union matters and cannot be unilaterally removed from it by any side of the Union. The 2009 House of Representatives of Zanzibar Resolution over the removal of the two from the List is not the law of the URT and its passage did not remove oil and gas from that list. Under the current Union Constitution its the Union Parliament which has powers of amending the constitution. Any amendment that touches the List of Union Matters has to obtained more than a two-third majority from each side of the union. This has not been done. Under the circumstances whatever the jumpy Jussa and the Old Professor are talking is what should have been or should be and not what it is. For the benefit of the two and other jumpy Reps of the House of Representatives, a legal issue or dispute is resolved in accordance with the existing law and not under ones perception of what the law should be. What the law should be is the function of another arm of the state i.e. the parliament.

The Old Professor repeats the familiar refrain of those who argue that Zanzibar's rights have been and are being trampled on and on! It is rather sad when this is said by a person who should know better. Under the existing union framework Zanzibar has got its own government, parliament, and judiciary.Tanzania Mainland does not. Union MPs from Zanzibar take part in the Union Parliament, they deliberate and vote on non-union matters concerning Tanzania Mainland. MPs from Tanzania Mainland do not. Zanzibaris can run for parliamentary seat in the Mainland ala Dr. Hussein Mwinyi(Mkuranga 2000-2005) or be nominated for parliament as representative from any region of Tanzania as per his cited example of Mama Zakia Meghji. Those from the Mainland cannot do that.

Moreover, Professor Shariff has conveniently ignored to discuss the unpalatable facts of the the current union structure which allows one MP from Zanzibar to represent 12,000 people and to elected by not more than 4,500 electorates and enjoy attendant perks! This is not the case for his or her counterpart from the Mainland whose constituents average 160,000.

Professor Shariff feigns a wounded innocence on the demand made by the Mwananchi Newpaper's Editorial of January 26, 2012 that Rep. Jussa should muster the courage to apologize for the confusion he has caused. To him Jussa has nothing to apologize for all that he he did was to teach "Our Big Brother a lesson." Of course the Editor of Mwananchi was asking too much of Jussa, because it is the civilized i.e. gentlemen and ladies who apologize. To Professor Shariff, the jumpy Jussa and his comrades represent a new generation of Zanzibaris who cannot be bullied! It is a pity indeed, that the Old Professor could see in a falsehood peddler hope, courage, and change for Zanzibar! Surely, the late Sheikh Karume should be rolling in his grave!

It is this generation out of "jumpy thinking" that passed the 2009 amendment to the Constitution of Zanzibar of 1984 and defined its borders to mean those that existed before the union. A literal interpretation of that constitution amendment means that Zanzibar has not any right whatsoever over the EEZ and the Continental Shelf. The damage has been done and we, in the Mainland, who cannot continue to countenance the violation of our rights will stop Zanzibar from ever claiming any right over the EEZ because of that amendment. In law it is call the doctrine of estoppel. You cannot deny the truth of something you stated and made others to believe to be the case.

I rest my defense.