Violence fuels debate among Muslims over interpreting faith

[2013]

CAIRO (AP) - After gunmen in Paris killed 12 people, Saudi Arabia's top body of Muslim clerics quickly condemned the attack and said it could have no acceptable justification. It was a signal from some of the Islamic world's strictest voices that cartoons lampooning the Prophet Muhammad in the French satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo were not a reason to kill the artists.



Only days later, Saudi Arabia sent an opposing message: On Friday, a young Saudi was whipped 50 times in a public square in the city of Jiddah, the first of what will be 20 such weekly rounds of lashes. That, along with 10 years in prison, is his sentence from the kingdom's religious-based courts for insulting Islam, based on posts on his blog criticizing prominent clerics close to the monarchy.
The contradiction points to the difficulties at a time of a growing debate within Islam about whether and how to reject a radical minority that some fear is dragging them into conflict and wrecking the faith.
Western critics are increasingly brazen about suggesting there is something inherent in Islam that is sparking violence by some of its adherents. Most Muslims reject this, arguing that the tumult of the post-colonial Middle East has created fertile ground for radicalism among people whose faith is fundamentally one of peace.
Nonetheless, the past year has seen increasing voices among Muslims saying their community must re-examine their faith to modernize its interpretations and sideline extremists. As much as recent attacks in the West, the rise of startlingly vicious violence by Sunni Muslim militants in the name of Islam against fellow Muslims, including Sunnis, brought it home for many Muslims that something must change in religious discourse.
In Syria and Iraq, the Islamic State group has butchered entire families of Sunnis and beheaded Sunni soldiers, as well as Western hostages. In Pakistan, a Dec. 16 militant attack on a school that killed 150 people, mostly children, stunned the country. It made many Pakistanis question any empathy they felt in the past toward militant groups - the attitude of "even if they're wrong, they're still fellow Muslims."
View gallery

FILE - In this Wednesday, Jan. 7, 2015 file photo, an injured person is carried into an ambulance af …

"Now I hear more people talking openly against extremism and militancy," said Hasan-Askari Rizvi, an independent political analyst in Pakistan.
When people ask "why Islam?", much of the answer has little to do with the religion itself. The Arab world has seen decades of bloodshed and foreign intervention unlike any in any other region - long entrenched dictatorships, regime suppression, two Iraq wars, the Syrian civil war and Libya's turmoil.
Those conflicts have stirred up hatreds - against the U.S., against the West, against Shiites and other communities - that rebound back into religion. Some youth angered by the conflicts find the answers in the version of "true Islam" touted by extremists like al-Qaida and the Islamic State group and promoted on the Internet. Those groups tell them Islam requires them to use violence to defend the faith, then provide whole networks to make it easy for them to do so.
Notably, Cherif Kouachi, one of the French brothers behind the Charlie Hebdo killings, appears to have been first radicalized by hearing of abuses of Iraqi inmates by American guards at Abu Ghraib prison.
The attack on Charlie Hebdo prompted condemnations from across the Muslim world -and fueled voices in the West contending that Islam fuels violence. Social media feeds bristled that insults to other religions do not tend to spark murders.
View gallery

File - In this Friday, Jan. 9, 2015 file photo, a French police officer stands guard outside the Gra …

That frustrates many Muslims who tire of apologizing for an extremist fringe they view as distorting their religion. Still, Muslims are also turning inward for change in the community.
The most prominent call came days before the attack, when Egyptian President Abdel-Fattah el-Sissi gave a speech to Muslim clerics saying interpretations developed over centuries have made the Muslim world a "source of worry, danger, killing and destruction in the whole world." He called for a "religious revolution" to modernize the faith.
The Paris attack added a complication to the debate, because of the magazine's extremely broad lampooning of Islam's Prophet Muhammad. Muslims who denounced the killings were often clearly discomfited by the content and defended their right to be upset over cartoons even some Western critics said crossed into racism.
In Egypt and Lebanon, political cartoonists published cartoons expressing solidarity with Charlie Hebdo, with images of pens standing up to gunmen. On Twitter, some pointed to Ahmed Merabet, a Muslim policeman of Algerian heritage killed by the attackers. "I am Ahmed the dead cop. Charlie ridiculed my faith and culture and I died defending his right to do so," was a tweet of solidarity circulating among Muslims.
"Obviously the act of terrorism is a far greater evil that the question of satirical comments," Khalid Samad, a lawmaker from an Islamist political party in mostly Muslim Malaysia, said.
View gallery

FILE - In this Friday Jan. 9, 2015 file photo, shows an aerial view of Sargatmesh Mosque and school …

But some in the religious establishment struggled with the issue.
On pan-Arab satellite channel al-Arabiya Thursday night, an official from al-Azhar, the state-run Egyptian institution that is one of the most prestigious centers of Sunni Islam, said al-Azhar is working to modernize religious discourse, in part by interpreting texts in light of the context in place and time as opposed to literally.
"But we can't exonerate the West for its insulting of the prophet. I'm not justifying what happened, but these are causes," Sheikh Ashraf Saad said. "Just as we condemn extremists, we must also condemn these freedoms that have reached the point of insulting the prophet."
He was countered by a Saudi journalist on the panel, Mshari al-Thaydi. "But the question is, why is it Muslims who get so angry and kill and blow things up? The French magazine insulted the pope, the Dalai Lama. ... Why do we express our anger in this way?
"We have 1,436 years in the history of Islam," he said. "Why do we hand ourselves over to a particular person who picks what he wants from that heritage and says that's Islam and accept it or you've left the faith?"
View gallery

FILE - This file image posted on a militant website on Saturday, June 14, 2014, which has been verif …

That hits to the issue of who speaks for Islam, where in the Sunni branch in particular, individual clerics build on centuries of scholarship to argue what the faith requires.
Al-Qaida and the Islamic State group roughly take elements from two relatively modern strands. One is the writing of Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood thinker Sayed Qutb, with its tenets that Muslim society has fallen from faith and violent jihad must be waged to bring "God's rule." The other is Wahhabism, a reform movement with a strict, literal and uncompromising interpretation of texts aimed at purging Islam of innovations. Wahhabism became the official doctrine of Saudi Arabia, which has promoted it around the Muslim world.
State religious institutions across the region, meanwhile, are widely criticized as stagnant. Government control has undermined their credibility among both liberal Muslims and militants. That was clear when Saudi Arabia's top religious body, the Council of Senior Scholars, condemned the Paris attack and called it "unacceptable under any justification."
That prompted a torrent of derision on Twitter from militant sympathizers who accused the clerics of doing the bidding of the U.S.-allied Saudi monarchy and protecting those who insult Muhammad. "The masks fall and reveal those who lick the boots of dictators," one proclaimed.
souurce: http://news.yahoo.com/violence-fuels-debate-among-muslims-over-interpreting-faith-155204524.html
------------------------------------------------------------------


My mind tells me that: Islam is growing together with his own destruction.
cc Adiosamigo, MZIMU, Ishmael, mgen, Nonda,

 

[Ishmael]

The DNA of early Islam code for a lot of violence. Whether they can evolve out of it is another thing altogether.

 

[Nonda]

Debate kama hii ilikuwepo wakati wa ile vita ya crusade?

 

[Ishmael]

Debate kama hii ilikuwepo wakati wa ile vita ya crusade?

Nonda,

"It is like this now because for centuries Muslims have been told that Islam was spread by the sword, that all Arab countries and even Spain were captured by the sword and we are proud of that," he said. "In the minds of ordinary people, people on the street, the religion of Islam is the religion of the sword. This is the culture, and we have to change it."

 

[Nonda]

Nonda,

"It is like this now because for centuries Muslims have been told that Islam was spread by the sword, that all Arab countries and even Spain were captured by the sword and we are proud of that," he said. "In the minds of ordinary people, people on the street, the religion of Islam is the religion of the sword. This is the culture, and we have to change it."

Sasa jibu swali nilouliza.

Na hili la nyongeza. Ile vita ya Crusade ilikuwa ndio kugeuza shavu la kulia au la kushoto?

 

[Ishmael]

Sasa jibu swali nilouliza.

Na hili la nyongeza. Ile vita ya Crusade ilikuwa ndio kugeuza shavu la kulia au la kushoto?

Islam started the Crusades. Islam is the direct cause why the Dark Ages lasted so long because they were raiding and pirating Europe since the 8th century and stopped the West from trade with the Easter Empire. The Eastern Empire in Constantinople actually never entered the Dark Ages and was sacked by... you guessed it, the Muhammadan hordes in the Fall of Constantinople in 1453 AD.

The first Siege of Constantinople by Islam was in 674-678 AD.
The second Siege of Constantinople by Islam was in 717-718 AD.

Are you starting to see a theme here? When was there ever a time when Islam was peaceful? When they are a tiny minority in a Christian country. The religion of peace is Christianity which preaches peace upon all men are proclaimed in the New Testament.

Islam is a cult of murder and bloodshed.

 

[2013]

Debate kama hii ilikuwepo wakati wa ile vita ya crusade?

nonda hapa hii kitu hamwezi ikwepa, inawatafuna sana., Consciously ama unconsciously wapo miongoni mwenu hamfurahii, kwani yana wachafua sana. Tatizo hili ni systemic katika imani yenu: na sio tatizo kwa wasio waislamu. je why always you.
Reformation haiepukiki ikibidi kufuta mamia ya Verses zenye kupelekea vurugu na ukiukwaji wa haki za binadamu, Na kundi ka kwa lugha nzuri.. Je Kitaachaje kubadilika wakti Muda umebadilika?
:A S 109:

 

[sodoliki]

You always expect tanzania and other moderate Muslims to actively participate in this type of discussions, lakini normally kwa unafiki they will choose to ignore, this is mainly due to ignorance of their religion, au unafiki tuu wa kutaka kuonekana wazuri kushoto na kulia. Dunia tunayookwenda you need to choose one side , hakuna middle road

 

[Ally Kombo]

nonda hapa hii kitu hamwezi ikwepa, inawatafuna sana., Consciously ama unconsciously wapo miongoni mwenu hamfurahii, kwani yana wachafua sana. Tatizo hili ni systemic katika imani yenu: na sio tatizo kwa wasio waislamu. je why always you.
Reformation haiepukiki ikibidi kufuta mamia ya Verses zenye kupelekea vurugu na ukiukwaji wa haki za binadamu, Na kundi ka kwa lugha nzuri.. Je Kitaachaje kubadilika wakti Muda umebadilika?
:A S 109:

UISLAAM hauna kati na kati (moderate) na kuna aya. ndani ya Qur'an inaonya juu ya hilo !
Mtasubiri sana.

 

[Gavana]

Islam started the Crusades. Islam is the direct cause why the Dark Ages lasted so long because they were raiding and pirating Europe since the 8th century and stopped the West from trade with the Easter Empire. The Eastern Empire in Constantinople actually never entered the Dark Ages and was sacked by... you guessed it, the Muhammadan hordes in the Fall of Constantinople in 1453 AD.

The first Siege of Constantinople by Islam was in 674-678 AD.
The second Siege of Constantinople by Islam was in 717-718 AD.

Are you starting to see a theme here? When was there ever a time when Islam was peaceful? When they are a tiny minority in a Christian country. The religion of peace is Christianity which preaches peace upon all men are proclaimed in the New Testament.

Islam is a cult of murder and bloodshed.

mbona unajikanganya , umeulizwa


Sasa jibu swali nilouliza.

Na hili la nyongeza. Ile vita ya Crusade ilikuwa ndio kugeuza shavu la kulia au la kushoto?

 

[Gavana]

nonda hapa hii kitu hamwezi ikwepa, inawatafuna sana., Consciously ama unconsciously wapo miongoni mwenu hamfurahii, kwani yana wachafua sana. Tatizo hili ni systemic katika imani yenu: na sio tatizo kwa wasio waislamu. je why always you.
Reformation haiepukiki ikibidi kufuta mamia ya Verses zenye kupelekea vurugu na ukiukwaji wa haki za binadamu, Na kundi ka kwa lugha nzuri.. Je Kitaachaje kubadilika wakti Muda umebadilika?
:A S 109:

Kwani mumesahau kugeuza mashavu ???au ndio mnageuza vile vitu mnavyopeana makanisani

 

[Frank Castello]

nonda hapa hii kitu hamwezi ikwepa, inawatafuna sana., Consciously ama unconsciously wapo miongoni mwenu hamfurahii, kwani yana wachafua sana. Tatizo hili ni systemic katika imani yenu: na sio tatizo kwa wasio waislamu. je why always you.
Reformation haiepukiki ikibidi kufuta mamia ya Verses zenye kupelekea vurugu na ukiukwaji wa haki za binadamu, Na kundi ka kwa lugha nzuri.. Je Kitaachaje kubadilika wakti Muda umebadilika?
:A S 109:

Mkuu unaongea ukweli bila reformation ugaidi utaendelea,unajua kuran ina sehem kuu mbili,kuna aya za medina na aya za mecca, aya za medina zilikuwa angalau znaelezea upendo na hazikuwa na lugha kali kasheshe mtume alipoenda macca hapo ndipo akafuta(abrogate)aya zote za medina na kuweka maagizo mengne ambayo yalikuwa yana hamasisha vita kwa wasiokuwa waislam na mambo mengne yasiyofaa kwa dunia ya wastaarabu,ndio maana kwenye kuran nzima hakuna aya hata moja inayoelezea waislam kuwapenda wasiokuwa waislam,hili ni tatzo kubwa ilitakiwa zile aya za medina ndio zingekuwa maagizo ya mwisho lakn kwa bahati zile za mecca ndio zimekuwa maagizo ya mwisho na hapo ndipo kasheshe inapokuja.

 

[MZIMU]

CAIRO (AP) - After gunmen in Paris killed 12 people, Saudi Arabia's top body of Muslim clerics quickly condemned the attack and said it could have no acceptable justification. It was a signal from some of the Islamic world's strictest voices that cartoons lampooning the Prophet Muhammad in the French satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo were not a reason to kill the artists.



Only days later, Saudi Arabia sent an opposing message: On Friday, a young Saudi was whipped 50 times in a public square in the city of Jiddah, the first of what will be 20 such weekly rounds of lashes. That, along with 10 years in prison, is his sentence from the kingdom's religious-based courts for insulting Islam, based on posts on his blog criticizing prominent clerics close to the monarchy.
The contradiction points to the difficulties at a time of a growing debate within Islam about whether and how to reject a radical minority that some fear is dragging them into conflict and wrecking the faith.
Western critics are increasingly brazen about suggesting there is something inherent in Islam that is sparking violence by some of its adherents. Most Muslims reject this, arguing that the tumult of the post-colonial Middle East has created fertile ground for radicalism among people whose faith is fundamentally one of peace.
Nonetheless, the past year has seen increasing voices among Muslims saying their community must re-examine their faith to modernize its interpretations and sideline extremists. As much as recent attacks in the West, the rise of startlingly vicious violence by Sunni Muslim militants in the name of Islam against fellow Muslims, including Sunnis, brought it home for many Muslims that something must change in religious discourse.
In Syria and Iraq, the Islamic State group has butchered entire families of Sunnis and beheaded Sunni soldiers, as well as Western hostages. In Pakistan, a Dec. 16 militant attack on a school that killed 150 people, mostly children, stunned the country. It made many Pakistanis question any empathy they felt in the past toward militant groups - the attitude of "even if they're wrong, they're still fellow Muslims."
View gallery

FILE - In this Wednesday, Jan. 7, 2015 file photo, an injured person is carried into an ambulance af …

"Now I hear more people talking openly against extremism and militancy," said Hasan-Askari Rizvi, an independent political analyst in Pakistan.
When people ask "why Islam?", much of the answer has little to do with the religion itself. The Arab world has seen decades of bloodshed and foreign intervention unlike any in any other region - long entrenched dictatorships, regime suppression, two Iraq wars, the Syrian civil war and Libya's turmoil.
Those conflicts have stirred up hatreds - against the U.S., against the West, against Shiites and other communities - that rebound back into religion. Some youth angered by the conflicts find the answers in the version of "true Islam" touted by extremists like al-Qaida and the Islamic State group and promoted on the Internet. Those groups tell them Islam requires them to use violence to defend the faith, then provide whole networks to make it easy for them to do so.
Notably, Cherif Kouachi, one of the French brothers behind the Charlie Hebdo killings, appears to have been first radicalized by hearing of abuses of Iraqi inmates by American guards at Abu Ghraib prison.
The attack on Charlie Hebdo prompted condemnations from across the Muslim world -and fueled voices in the West contending that Islam fuels violence. Social media feeds bristled that insults to other religions do not tend to spark murders.
View gallery

File - In this Friday, Jan. 9, 2015 file photo, a French police officer stands guard outside the Gra …

That frustrates many Muslims who tire of apologizing for an extremist fringe they view as distorting their religion. Still, Muslims are also turning inward for change in the community.
The most prominent call came days before the attack, when Egyptian President Abdel-Fattah el-Sissi gave a speech to Muslim clerics saying interpretations developed over centuries have made the Muslim world a "source of worry, danger, killing and destruction in the whole world." He called for a "religious revolution" to modernize the faith.
The Paris attack added a complication to the debate, because of the magazine's extremely broad lampooning of Islam's Prophet Muhammad. Muslims who denounced the killings were often clearly discomfited by the content and defended their right to be upset over cartoons even some Western critics said crossed into racism.
In Egypt and Lebanon, political cartoonists published cartoons expressing solidarity with Charlie Hebdo, with images of pens standing up to gunmen. On Twitter, some pointed to Ahmed Merabet, a Muslim policeman of Algerian heritage killed by the attackers. "I am Ahmed the dead cop. Charlie ridiculed my faith and culture and I died defending his right to do so," was a tweet of solidarity circulating among Muslims.
"Obviously the act of terrorism is a far greater evil that the question of satirical comments," Khalid Samad, a lawmaker from an Islamist political party in mostly Muslim Malaysia, said.
View gallery

FILE - In this Friday Jan. 9, 2015 file photo, shows an aerial view of Sargatmesh Mosque and school …

But some in the religious establishment struggled with the issue.
On pan-Arab satellite channel al-Arabiya Thursday night, an official from al-Azhar, the state-run Egyptian institution that is one of the most prestigious centers of Sunni Islam, said al-Azhar is working to modernize religious discourse, in part by interpreting texts in light of the context in place and time as opposed to literally.
"But we can't exonerate the West for its insulting of the prophet. I'm not justifying what happened, but these are causes," Sheikh Ashraf Saad said. "Just as we condemn extremists, we must also condemn these freedoms that have reached the point of insulting the prophet."
He was countered by a Saudi journalist on the panel, Mshari al-Thaydi. "But the question is, why is it Muslims who get so angry and kill and blow things up? The French magazine insulted the pope, the Dalai Lama. ... Why do we express our anger in this way?
"We have 1,436 years in the history of Islam," he said. "Why do we hand ourselves over to a particular person who picks what he wants from that heritage and says that's Islam and accept it or you've left the faith?"
View gallery

FILE - This file image posted on a militant website on Saturday, June 14, 2014, which has been verif …

That hits to the issue of who speaks for Islam, where in the Sunni branch in particular, individual clerics build on centuries of scholarship to argue what the faith requires.
Al-Qaida and the Islamic State group roughly take elements from two relatively modern strands. One is the writing of Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood thinker Sayed Qutb, with its tenets that Muslim society has fallen from faith and violent jihad must be waged to bring "God's rule." The other is Wahhabism, a reform movement with a strict, literal and uncompromising interpretation of texts aimed at purging Islam of innovations. Wahhabism became the official doctrine of Saudi Arabia, which has promoted it around the Muslim world.
State religious institutions across the region, meanwhile, are widely criticized as stagnant. Government control has undermined their credibility among both liberal Muslims and militants. That was clear when Saudi Arabia's top religious body, the Council of Senior Scholars, condemned the Paris attack and called it "unacceptable under any justification."
That prompted a torrent of derision on Twitter from militant sympathizers who accused the clerics of doing the bidding of the U.S.-allied Saudi monarchy and protecting those who insult Muhammad. "The masks fall and reveal those who lick the boots of dictators," one proclaimed.
souurce: http://news.yahoo.com/violence-fuels-debate-among-muslims-over-interpreting-faith-155204524.html
------------------------------------------------------------------


My mind tells me that: Islam is growing together with his own destruction.
cc Adiosamigo, MZIMU, Ishmael, mgen, Nonda,

Any one killed for insulting Islam and any Prophet of GOD, so be it.

 

[Criterion]

Unamaanisha mungu wa waislam ni katuni?

Nani ananguvu na mkuu kuliko mweziye kati ya mungu wa waislam na waislam wenyewe?

Ninashindwa kuelewa waislam inakuwaje wanaabudu mungu wasiyemwamini.

Inakuweje mungu ategemee kuishi kwa nguvu ya majambia na mabomu ya wanadamu?

Eti wanaua kwa sababu wanalinda mungu!!!!. mungu asiyeweza kujilinda anafaida gani?

Sielewi kabisa hii filosofia ya mauaji kwa ajili ya kumlinda mungu kunakofanywa na hawa waisilam. mungu wao atakuwa weak lakini anaroho mbaya sana.

Any one killed for insulting Islam and any Prophet of GOD, so be it.

 

[Adiosamigo]

Islam started the Crusades. Islam is the direct cause why the Dark Ages lasted so long because they were raiding and pirating Europe since the 8th century and stopped the West from trade with the Easter Empire. The Eastern Empire in Constantinople actually never entered the Dark Ages and was sacked by... you guessed it, the Muhammadan hordes in the Fall of Constantinople in 1453 AD.

The first Siege of Constantinople by Islam was in 674-678 AD.
The second Siege of Constantinople by Islam was in 717-718 AD.

Are you starting to see a theme here? When was there ever a time when Islam was peaceful? When they are a tiny minority in a Christian country. The religion of peace is Christianity which preaches peace upon all men are proclaimed in the New Testament.

Islam is a cult of murder and bloodshed.

John 5:31 ► "If I testify about myself, my testimony is not true.

dogo Ishmael ; The idea of a "a Crusade" was born before Islam.

In fact the first instance, of a Crusade was before the birth of Islam in the expedition of Heraclius against the Persians in the seventh century before Islam had started the Jihad. This was when the Zoroastrian Sassanid general Shehrbaraz, who had overrun Jerusalem in 612 and had taken the True Cross into Persia and installed it at Dastgard. Then the Sassanid armies had reached the Walls of Constantinople under another Sassanid Persian General Shahin and along with the Avars of Bulgaria had besieged Constantinople.

History of the Crusades Against Jihad (1095 - 1297)

​