Maundumula
JF-Expert Member
- Nov 4, 2010
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Vijana walianza usharobaro zamani?
....mean?..........usharobaro...........
Uchaguzi huo wa kwanza wa kina Mrema ulikuwa 1995, miaka kumi baada ya Nyerere kuacha urais 1985. Huwezi uka make observations worth your name about Tanzanian political history and miss such fact by ten years, I mean you just can't be serious. Nyerere alikataa, alikandamiza, vyama vingi and political pluralism in Tanzania.Mmmh, mbona napatwa shaka hapa Taso... siongelei enzi za TAA na SAP; kwani uchaguzi wa kwanza ulioshirikisha hata akina Lyatonga Mrema ulikuwa lini vile..kindly asking.
Edit:
Sorry, nimeona - umesema "mamlaka".
If the leadership bar was set this high in the sixties, what went wrong in between to bring it so low mpaka na akina Rostam wakaona wanafaa kuongoza?
Mwalimu alikuwa na sababu nzuri tu ya kukataa vyama vingi wakati ule. Vingekuwa vya KIKABILA na KIDINI zaidi kama ilivyo kwa jirani zetu hapa Kenya. Na kama utakumbuka ni yeye aliyeanzisha mjadala wa kuvirudisha na sio CCM kama anavyosema Nape.Uchaguzi huo wa kwanza wa kina Mrema ulikuwa 1995, miaka kumi baada ya Nyerere kuacha urais 1985. Huwezi uka make observations worth your name about Tanzanian political history and miss such fact by ten years, I mean you just can't be serious. Nyerere alikataa, alikandamiza, vyama vingi and political pluralism in Tanzania.
Generation ya hapa jamvini wachache sana walioona chaguzi za Nyerere, wa mwisho ulikuwa 1980. Ambao hawakuwa na legal voting age tunasikia kwenye oral history (historia ya Mwafrika ni simulizi, haiandikwi) tunasikia ballot box zilikuwa na picha ya Nyerere against a blank box, za wabunge zilikuwa zina nembo ya CCM against jembe na nyundo, za udiwani zilikuwa na picha ya CCM against picha ya jogoo. And that was the democratic proclivity of Nyerere. Chagua CCM au kuku!
Tumetoka mbali. Bahati mbaya historia haziandikwi, hakuna anae bother, au anaejua, au mwenye balls za kuandika objective history of the man and his conscience, his terribly hideous autocratic inclinations and such. Alifanya mengine, lakini Nyerere sie aliyeruhusu vyama vingi.
Umejuaje?Vingekuwa vya KIKABILA na KIDINI
Hivi ni kweli kwamba hatuna viongozi wa aina ya Mwalimu kwa sasa au hawapewi nafasi?Hotuba hii inatudokeza tu what leadership is all about...
Mazingira ya wakati ule yalikuwa hivo. Na kati ya vilivyofutwa baadhi vilikuwa na mwelekeo huo.Umejuaje?
Hivi ni kweli kwamba hatuna viongozi wa aina ya Mwalimu kwa sasa au hawapewi nafasi?
Vyama vingi vilikuwepo, Nyerere alivikuta havina udini wala ukabila, akavifuta. Udini na ukabila haukuwa issue toka mwanzo, ndio maana Watanganyika waligombea uhuru kwa umoja wao.Mazingira ya wakati ule yalikuwa hivo. Na kati ya vilivyofutwa baadhi vilikuwa na mwelekeo huo.
sixties generation received sound colonial education hasa pale makerere.Baada hapo education stardards zime back slide hadi kufukia tulipo sasa.siyo elimu tuu hadi uchumi,siyo siri pato la mwanachi limepungua in real term ukilinganisha na pato la baba wetu.Hili hasa ndio limezuwa perception na sentiment ya afadhali mkoloni.If the leadership bar was set this high in the sixties, what went wrong in between to bring it so low mpaka na akina Rostam wakaona wanafaa kuongoza?
Nyerere bwana alikua na idea alizoziamini kwa ubora na zinasikika vizuri kwa watu wengi, sasa kua na idea nzuri na kujenga tokana na idea uliyonayo ili iwe kweli hapo ndio ugumu uliopo. Hata hakujua namna ya kutafuta watendaji wazuri wa kumsaidi kujenga tokana idea zake.
Alikata mshahara wake 20% papo kwa papo, sasa laweza kua jambo zuri lakini yaonyesha zaidi alivyokua anaamua mambo kwa kukurupuka na kua power zote alijiwekea yeye mwenyewe - majibu yote kwa wanachuo alikua nayo na yalikua ni final bila mjadala wa ziada - he was a dictator sort of.
Alijipa power zote, nashangaa bado hakujenga TZ imara - wakati huo hata KOREA karibu tulifanana kiuchumi.
Hawa viongozi tulionao chini ya CCM, hawalipizi kitu ila wanafanya mambo tokana na culture ya CCM iliyojengeka toka enzi za Nyerere.
In some of my writings I have alluded to one of the most fiery, provocative and incredibly poignant speech by Nyerere to the Tanzanian educated youth. It is one of the few speeches that remains forgotten. As the nation wrestles with the question of public spending, entitlements of the educated ruling class (part of which is corrupt) and the burden this government has put on the poor peasants (as Nyerere would call them) I have found an urge to share this speech with you just to make us think where we are coming from and why we are here. A bunch of those students who marched to the State House have found their thrones at the helm of power in the past 10 to 15 years. They have never changed.
In the first part, a group of university students (almost 400 of them) from DUC (before it became UDSM) marched to the Statehouse protesting the National Service arrangement which they considered to be exploitative in nature. Without fear or excuses Nyerere and his Cabinet were prepared to meet them. Force was not used to stop them.
The incident is recorded in "We Must Run, While They Walk, pp 26-32- a book by William Edgett Smith" Digital transcription is mine; all italics and brackets original. I will have a Pdf file with the complete text next time.
Here is the first part of what happened…
IN OCTOBER 1966, a few months after Nyerere's trip to Tabora, a group of four hundred students, most them from Dar-es-Salaam University College, marched to State House. They were protesting against a new law which required that they spend two years in the National Service, and be paid roughly 40 percent of what they would earn as university graduates in civilian life.
They were especially angry at Vice-President Rashidi Kawawa, the minister in charge of the National Service program, and carried signs bearing such messages as TO HELL WITH KAWAWA AND HIS SCHEME and the - ultimate insult- LIFE DURING COLONIAL DAYS WAS BETTER.
At the steps of State House, they were met by Nyerere, Kawawa and most members of the Cabinet, and their spokesman proceeded to deliver their "ultimatum" in a high pitched twang. The Government, he declared, was trying to throw "the burden of financing this extensive scheme on the shoulders of young and helpless students," and he offered a compromise: "either we be paid full rights of earning, or else all those in the high-income brackets should also be in that category which could be interpreted as a form of sacrifice rather than a form of exploitation."
In other words, if university graduates were expected to spend two years in the National Service at 40 percent of their civilian pay, government officials should make sacrifices too. "Therefore, Your Excellency, unless the terms of reference and the attitude of our leaders toward students change, we shall not accept National Service in spirit. Let our bodies go, but or should will remain outside the scheme" - wild applause - "and the battle between the political elite and the educated elite will perpetually continue. Thank you."
Nyerere began to speak in a calm, almost perfunctory manner. "I did, I have understood your protest. It is not really addressed to the Second Vice-President, it is addressed to the Government, we have got your message. I understand it, I want to see if I can explain a little, I want to be absolutely clear that what we have said to your leaders has got to you.
"This matter did not start yesterday. It is the intention of the government that National Service should not merely be for ex-primary [school graduates] or for un-employed; it is national service. It should include secondary [school graduates], and university graduates, and all others. We asked, ‘at what point in the life of a youth, at what particular point, do we ask him to enter National Service? Do we take him before he finishes his education or after?'
"So we decided no" - his voice was cracking a bit now - "you don't cut his education, you don't interfere with it, you wait until he has completed his education. We made that decision. I think it was an extremely considerate decision on the part of the government. Very considerate. Very considerate. But it had some definite implications. If you wait until a student has finished his education, his training as a teacher, the he has certain expectations. If he is trained to be a teacher, his salary will - what is it? Seven hundred and sixteen pounds a year? Ah, seven hundred and sixteen plus seventy six. This is his salary, seven hundred and ninety two pounds. This teacher, he has in mind: ‘At the end of my education, I get seven hundred and ninety two pounds.' This is his expectation. So, if you wait until he completes his training as a teacher you have allowed him to think, ‘Seven hundred and ninety two pounds is my right.' As your spokesman said, ‘my full right'" He rolled the r. "My full rrrright.
"We made other mistakes. We said, ‘Treat them differently. Count as National Service the work they do as teachers or doctors or engineers. A student has been trained as a teacher; very well, let him go into the classroom. If he is a doctor, let him go to the ward, let him go to Muhimbili hospital, count that as National Service.'
"Obviously, if we had taken you people and said, ‘OK, don't let them finish their education yet, let them complete their National Service first, ' then you would not be talking to us, or to the Vice President, asking him to resign. You would not be talking about forty percent. Forty percent of what? You would not have salaries. I mean, really the easiest way to get of this damned forty percent rubbish is to ask you people to do National Service before you go to university. That's all.
"Now, I explained this forty-percent business ages ago. Since then we have changed it. We've changed the damned thing. We have said, ‘We guarantee a minimum wage - the government minimum wage in Dar-es-Salaam; no National Service person will be getting less than one hundred and eight pounds a year.' In terms of the teacher, you knock off one hundred and eight pounds from the seven hundred and ninety-two pounds, and then take fort percent of the rest, and you add that together, and I am told this comes to three hundred and eighty-one pounds. Did you also say, Mr. Vice-President, ‘Free housing'? And were you also saying, ‘No direct taxation'? Were you really saying this? That on an income of three hundred and eighty-one pounds, no taxation?
"This is rubbish, when we are talking about National Service. The nation says to its youth, ‘We want your service.' and the youth does not then turn the nation and say, ‘For how much?' The youth simply says ‘Where? What to do?' This is the meaning of National Service."
Calmly, again: "Now, I have accepted your ultimatum. And I can assure you I'm going to force nobody. You are right, your bodies would be there, your spirit wouldn't be there, you are right. I take nobody into the National Service whose spirit is not in it. Nobody! Absolutely nobody!" Hesitant applause.
"It's not a prison, you know. I'm not going to get anybody there who thinks it is a prison camp, no one! But nevertheless it will remain compulsory for everybody who is going to enter government service. So you make your choice. I'm not going to spend public money to educate anybody who says, ‘National Service is a prison camp.' No" - very quietly now - "I won't have this. I have accepted your ultimatum".
After a long pause he began again, chopping out every word in fury. "You are right when talk about salaries. Our salaries are too high. You want me to cut them?" Fairly strong applause. "Two years? I'm not talking about two years. I'm not building this country for two years. I'm willing to slash salaries. Do you want me to start with mine? Yes! I'll slash mine" Cries of "No!" could be heard. "I'll slash by twenty percent, as from this hour. Twenty percent. I slash my salary. This damned country! The salaries are too high! Too high for Tanzania!
(In the second part, Nyerere divulges his salary and takes a drastic action never before nor ever since attempted by a Tanzanian leader… don't miss the dramatic conclusion of this forgotten episode of our nation's earlier history - MM).
Sina uhakika na uelewa wako wa historia ya Nchi hii lakini hilo sio issue iliyo kwenye thread hii. Anayejadiliwa hapa sio Mwalimu bali baadhi ya maamuzi mazito ya kiuongozi aliyowahi kuchukua ulinganishe na hali ilivyo sasa. Na kama ulimchukia Mwalimu tangu zamani itakuwa taabu kuyaona mema aliyoyafanya wakati wa Uongozi wake. Isome tena post ya kwanza ya thread hii.Vyama vingi vilikuwepo, Nyerere alivikuta havina udini wala ukabila, akavifuta. Udini na ukabila haukuwa issue toka mwanzo, ndio maana Watanganyika waligombea uhuru kwa umoja wao.
Kungekuwa na siasa za kidini na kikabila wakati huo Nyerere asingekaribishwa pwani alikolelewa kisiasa kutoka kwao Mara huko na kushinda uongozi. Usipotoshe historia. Nyerere alifuta vyama vingi, na sie aliyeviruhusu. Asingeweza kuviruhusu kwa sababu hakuwa na uhalali wa kimaadili (moral authority) ya kutamka lolote kuhusu vyama vingi maana yeye alivivunja na baadhi ya dissidents wake walifungwa, walikimbizwa, waliuliwa.
In some of my writings I have alluded to one of the most fiery, provocative and incredibly poignant speech by Nyerere to the Tanzanian educated youth. It is one of the few speeches that remains forgotten. As the nation wrestles with the question of public spending, entitlements of the educated ruling class (part of which is corrupt) and the burden this government has put on the poor peasants (as Nyerere would call them) I have found an urge to share this speech with you just to make us think where we are coming from and why we are here. A bunch of those students who marched to the State House have found their thrones at the helm of power in the past 10 to 15 years. They have never changed.
"Now, I explained this forty-percent business ages ago. Since then we have changed it. We've changed the damned thing. We have said, ‘We guarantee a minimum wage - the government minimum wage in Dar-es-Salaam; no National Service person will be getting less than one hundred and eight pounds a year.' In terms of the teacher, you knock off one hundred and eight pounds from the seven hundred and ninety-two pounds, and then take fort percent of the rest, and you add that together, and I am told this comes to three hundred and eighty-one pounds. Did you also say, Mr. Vice-President, ‘Free housing'? And were you also saying, ‘No direct taxation'? Were you really saying this? That on an income of three hundred and eighty-one pounds, no taxation?
"This is rubbish, when we are talking about National Service. The nation says to its youth, ‘We want your service.' and the youth does not then turn the nation and say, ‘For how much?' The youth simply says ‘Where? What to do?' This is the meaning of National Service."
Calmly, again: "Now, I have accepted your ultimatum. And I can assure you I'm going to force nobody. You are right, your bodies would be there, your spirit wouldn't be there, you are right. I take nobody into the National Service whose spirit is not in it. Nobody! Absolutely nobody!" Hesitant applause.
"It's not a prison, you know. I'm not going to get anybody there who thinks it is a prison camp, no one! But nevertheless it will remain compulsory for everybody who is going to enter government service. So you make your choice. I'm not going to spend public money to educate anybody who says, ‘National Service is a prison camp.' No" - very quietly now - "I won't have this. I have accepted your ultimatum".
After a long pause he began again, chopping out every word in fury. "You are right when talk about salaries. Our salaries are too high. You want me to cut them?" Fairly strong applause. "Two years? I'm not talking about two years. I'm not building this country for two years. I'm willing to slash salaries. Do you want me to start with mine? Yes! I'll slash mine" Cries of "No!" could be heard. "I'll slash by twenty percent, as from this hour. Twenty percent. I slash my salary. This damned country! The salaries are too high! Too high for Tanzania!
(In the second part, Nyerere divulges his salary and takes a drastic action never before nor ever since attempted by a Tanzanian leader… don't miss the dramatic conclusion of this forgotten episode of our nation's earlier history - MM).
Hebu mshaurini Dr Slaa akate "posho" yake anayopata pale CHADEMA sasa.Mimi nadhani viongozi hwa hawasubiri kupewa nafasi bali wana stand out from the crowd, mfano mdogo regardless of ur stand kuaminiwa kwa Dr. Slaa kulianzia pale alipostand out from the crowd kwenye shughuli za bunge. Hakusubiri agombee ubunge CCM baadae apewe uwaziri ndiyo aonyeshe ni nini anaweza.
If the leadership bar was set this high in the sixties, what went wrong in between to bring it so low mpaka na akina Rostam wakaona wanafaa kuongoza?