Tanzania refuses to sign -then signs-proposal for EAC political federation

[mageuzi1992]

Come again Mzalendo....... umechanganya sana mawazo hapa...

MZALENDO UMEONYESHA UPEO MDOGO SANA WA KUJADILI..NAKUSHAURI KABLA YA KUJADILI FUATILIA HOJA KWA UNDANI SIO KUKURUUKA TU ILI NA WEWE UONEKANE UMECHANGIA!!!!
TANZANIA IMEFANYA UAMUZI SAHIHI KABISA.....HAUNA CHEMBE YA MAPUNGUFU......NA MTU YEYOTE ANAYEONA KUNA MAPUNGUFU JUA HUYO FISADI. KAMA SI FISADI THEN ANA AGENDA YA SIRI
NI AJABU SANA KUONA WATU AU NCHI ZINAKIMBILIA POLITICAL FEDERATION WAKATI HATA ECONOMICAL FEDERATION HAIPO VIZURI
TUJIFUNZE KWA ULAYA (yanayotokea Ugiriki,Itali Etc) SI BAHATI MBAYA NI KUTOKANA NA UZEMBE ULIOFANYIKA WA VIONGOZI KUJIINGIZA KATIKA MASHIRIKISHO BILA KUTAFAKARI..

SASA TUJIULIZE YANATOKEA ULAYA AMBAO WAMEENDELEA!!!!! SEMBUSE SISI?????????????????????

TUWE MAKINI TUSIKURUPUKE! WANAOITAMANI TANZANIA NI WENGI !!!

 

[Askari Kanzu]

I do not know whether you are a man or woman, but I think you are more of a woman. As at now let it be so whatever you will say to keep your miserable soul esteemed, whoever you are, let it be known to you that you do not have the grits as a man to withstand me, that is why you keep on saying "nyangau" or I am gay. Most assuredly, you are trying to dash to safety in your forum group members. Safety is never in numbers. Elijah called for fire from heaven and it consumed all the false prophets!!! We will meet again sometime.

Your inane statements with a paucity of self respect show that you are a moron, an imbecile nyang'au who at worst is a retard and at best asinine. You should listen to what your brother smatta is trying to say to people like you in this forum, and try to wake up from your self aggrandizing stupor!

 

[Kabaridi]

MZALENDO UMEONYESHA UPEO MDOGO SANA WA KUJADILI..NAKUSHAURI KABLA YA KUJADILI FUATILIA HOJA KWA UNDANI SIO KUKURUUKA TU ILI NA WEWE UONEKANE UMECHANGIA!!!!
TANZANIA IMEFANYA UAMUZI SAHIHI KABISA.....HAUNA CHEMBE YA MAPUNGUFU......NA MTU YEYOTE ANAYEONA KUNA MAPUNGUFU JUA HUYO FISADI. KAMA SI FISADI THEN ANA AGENDA YA SIRI
NI AJABU SANA KUONA WATU AU NCHI ZINAKIMBILIA POLITICAL FEDERATION WAKATI HATA ECONOMICAL FEDERATION HAIPO VIZURI
TUJIFUNZE KWA ULAYA (yanayotokea Ugiriki,Itali Etc) SI BAHATI MBAYA NI KUTOKANA NA UZEMBE ULIOFANYIKA WA VIONGOZI KUJIINGIZA KATIKA MASHIRIKISHO BILA KUTAFAKARI..

SASA TUJIULIZE YANATOKEA ULAYA AMBAO WAMEENDELEA!!!!! SEMBUSE SISI?????????????????????

TUWE MAKINI TUSIKURUPUKE! WANAOITAMANI TANZANIA NI WENGI !!!

Hata Kama ningetaka TZ waweke au wasiweke mkono wao kwenye mkataba huu wa kisiasa wa EAC, mimi sina uwezo wa kufanya uamuzi huo. Lakini hilo silo swala ambalo tunajaribu kujadili hapa. kama ninavyo fahamu, jinsi hi thread iko, ni jinsi jumuiya ya mataifa ya Afrika mashariki yanaweza kunufaika na mkataba huu wa EAC. Hilo ndilo swala tunajaribu kujadiliana na wengine hapa. Ukipitia hoja zangu nilizotoa hapo awali, utaona kuwa mimi silazimishi muweke mkono bali nikuonyesha tu jinsi mataifa yanaweza kunufaika, hata ikiwa maswala ya ardhi ndio msingi wa mjadala huu.

 

[Geza Ulole]

[h=1] East Africa Community integration priority is upside down [/h]
Category: East Africa Published on 12 December 2011 Hits: 29


The East African religiously publishes an interesting piece titled ‘The Integration Tracker,’ highlighting upturns, downturns, and no-changes in the EAC integration process.

This, supplemented by other media reports of the integration process, reveals one simple truth: a faux pas (false start) of this otherwise noble initiative. What has gained prominence, going by media reports, is the political federation and monetary union drives.


And according to The New Vision of November 21, Ms Beatrice Kiraso, the EAC Deputy Secretary-General superintending the fast-tracking of the political federation, has invented a bait to scare all of us into the faster realisation of her project: no monetary union without political federation. Going by her argument, one can conclude that we are envisaging a strong, powerful, centralised, supranational political authority that will have the political clout to formulate and enforce policy implementation by the entire EAC.

This is where we have it wrong. A realist’s analysis of our current politico-economic dispensation in the region shows one bitter reality: we do not have [someone with] the might of Bismarck to create a strong, united political entity out of the five (soon six or seven?) states in East Africa, the way Germany was created; nor do we have Nyerere’s charisma, charm, vision, selflessness and patriotism that created a united Tanzania out of Tanganyika and Zanzibar.

The best that we can have is a loose confederation, built on high-sounding, condescending treaties, protocols, conventions, declarations, accords and other legal niceties, leaving each country to pursue her narrow national interests. The whole process needs a total rethinking, refocusing and reorientation. We need a realist’s ranking of our priorities that will create a logical, self-enforcing road-map, in a cumulative manner.

This starts with shelving all debate, expenditure, research and any other effort on the political federation, monetary union, new membership, and EPAs negotiations. Kenya has only to ‘lower her ranking’ from the developing country club, come to the same level with her partners in the region, et voila!, the EU market access hurdle will be a fait accompli. This will not erase her regional status as the powerhouse of East Africa.

We are now focusing on what reality economists call the consumer component of man, ignoring the more vital one: the producer component. The European Union first addressed the producer component, and then the consumer component came as a logical consequence: the protocols, agreements, common currency and laws at the EU level, only came in to smoothen and enable an already existing self-reinforcing socio-economic reality.

The East African Community process is being built on copying the tail-end, the outcome of a century-long process, ignoring the logical inputs and outputs at critical irreversible stages that led to the current reality that is the European Union.

The efforts, time, money and other resources in the EAC integration process should, therefore, be redirected to a totally new organ, The East African Development Board, whose mandate shall be to address the sine qua non logical pillars of meaningful integration. What we expect to see in The Integration Tracker and other media, should be facts and figures, carrying answers and progressive reports about such pertinent issues as, inter alia:

• What is our resource endowment as a region?
• What self-reinforcing industrialisation strategy can we adopt and implement as a region?
• How do we stem the flooding of the region with counterfeits, rejects and discards?

• What manpower development approach do we need to build skills and stem brain drain?
• How do we eliminate hunger, malnutrition and disease that remain a menace to the citizens?
• How do we ensure permanent and enduring peace in Burundi and other pockets of instability in the region?

Seeing to unify a poor, diseased, unemployed, malnourished population will at best remain a ‘successful’ project on paper, with the reality being that it is a recipe for conflict. A common currency, a common entry point, common rules, etc, will only serve to ease the entry of imported fake goods, in the absence of a solid, internally integrated and self-reinforcing industrial base, that would create jobs, incomes and markets for the various linkages and value chains in the key sectors.
Hilary Clinton recently reminded African trade ministers in Nairobi that there is a bigger market at home (one billion Africans) than in Europe and America. Yet the regional economic blocs in Africa remain more linked to European and other foreign markets than with one another. This is what should preoccupy us. And it starts at EAC level.

The author is a partner at Peers Consult Ltd.
bukanga@yahoo.com
East Africa Community integration priority is upside down

 

[Wacha1]

Mnavuta blanket asubuhi wakati kumekucha. Does the members oops those who presume to be EAC members think they can teach Tanzanians about unity/integration? They better go back to the drawing board .... .... .... ....

 

[Smatta]

east africa community integration priority is upside down


category: east africa published on 12 december 2011 hits: 29


the east african religiously publishes an interesting piece titled ‘the integration tracker,' highlighting upturns, downturns, and no-changes in the eac integration process.

This, supplemented by other media reports of the integration process, reveals one simple truth: A faux pas (false start) of this otherwise noble initiative. What has gained prominence, going by media reports, is the political federation and monetary union drives.


And according to the new vision of november 21, ms beatrice kiraso, the eac deputy secretary-general superintending the fast-tracking of the political federation, has invented a bait to scare all of us into the faster realisation of her project: No monetary union without political federation. Going by her argument, one can conclude that we are envisaging a strong, powerful, centralised, supranational political authority that will have the political clout to formulate and enforce policy implementation by the entire eac.

This is where we have it wrong. A realist's analysis of our current politico-economic dispensation in the region shows one bitter reality: We do not have [someone with] the might of bismarck to create a strong, united political entity out of the five (soon six or seven?) states in east africa, the way germany was created; nor do we have nyerere's charisma, charm, vision, selflessness and patriotism that created a united tanzania out of tanganyika and zanzibar.

The best that we can have is a loose confederation, built on high-sounding, condescending treaties, protocols, conventions, declarations, accords and other legal niceties, leaving each country to pursue her narrow national interests. The whole process needs a total rethinking, refocusing and reorientation. We need a realist's ranking of our priorities that will create a logical, self-enforcing road-map, in a cumulative manner.

This starts with shelving all debate, expenditure, research and any other effort on the political federation, monetary union, new membership, and epas negotiations. Kenya has only to ‘lower her ranking' from the developing country club, come to the same level with her partners in the region, et voila!, the eu market access hurdle will be a fait accompli. This will not erase her regional status as the powerhouse of east africa.

We are now focusing on what reality economists call the consumer component of man, ignoring the more vital one: The producer component. The european union first addressed the producer component, and then the consumer component came as a logical consequence: The protocols, agreements, common currency and laws at the eu level, only came in to smoothen and enable an already existing self-reinforcing socio-economic reality.

The east african community process is being built on copying the tail-end, the outcome of a century-long process, ignoring the logical inputs and outputs at critical irreversible stages that led to the current reality that is the european union.

The efforts, time, money and other resources in the eac integration process should, therefore, be redirected to a totally new organ, the east african development board, whose mandate shall be to address the sine qua non logical pillars of meaningful integration. What we expect to see in the integration tracker and other media, should be facts and figures, carrying answers and progressive reports about such pertinent issues as, inter alia:

• what is our resource endowment as a region?
• what self-reinforcing industrialisation strategy can we adopt and implement as a region?
• how do we stem the flooding of the region with counterfeits, rejects and discards?

• what manpower development approach do we need to build skills and stem brain drain?
• how do we eliminate hunger, malnutrition and disease that remain a menace to the citizens?
• how do we ensure permanent and enduring peace in burundi and other pockets of instability in the region?

seeing to unify a poor, diseased, unemployed, malnourished population will at best remain a ‘successful' project on paper, with the reality being that it is a recipe for conflict. A common currency, a common entry point, common rules, etc, will only serve to ease the entry of imported fake goods, in the absence of a solid, internally integrated and self-reinforcing industrial base, that would create jobs, incomes and markets for the various linkages and value chains in the key sectors.
Hilary clinton recently reminded african trade ministers in nairobi that there is a bigger market at home (one billion africans) than in europe and america. Yet the regional economic blocs in africa remain more linked to european and other foreign markets than with one another. This is what should preoccupy us. And it starts at eac level.

the author is a partner at peers consult ltd.
bukanga@yahoo.com
east africa community integration priority is upside down

>>tl;dr

 

[MkenyaMzalendo]

I recently visited Moshi and Arusha. Those towns are exactly like they were when I last visited them as a kid (15 years ago).

 

[The Quonquerer]

Wameanza kukata tamaa. We have twisted them our way. Walitutega wakidhania tunauvaa mkenge..i think this Bukanga is a Muganda. Hizo zote ndiyo arguments za Tanzania, tofauti ni jinsi ya kuzilelezea. Wameiba sera zetu! Kila mtu kwao!

 

[The Quonquerer]

Smatta what's '>>tl;dr' wewe kula mirungi na fanya tu bishara twako twa vitunguu kutoka Karatu..Tanzania isn't anyone's chrismats gift, subirini santa claus atawapa 'Tanzania', christmas inakaribia! Siku hizi siwatukani wewe na Koba, u too weak!

 

[MkenyaMzalendo]

The only thing Wa TZ wametuzidi sisi ni ukarimu wao. I was pleasantly surprised when I went to a supermarket in Arusha and as I was picking a few items, a lady approached me and offered to assist me carry my merchandise.

Lakini apart from that, sikutamani kingine.

Hakuna night life worth talking about, bar zilikuwa almost empty. Ma-pickpocketers wamejaa humo, and generally everything happens at a snail pace. Hakuna haraka.

 

[Askari Kanzu]

I recently visited Moshi and Arusha. Those towns are exactly like they were when I last visited them as a kid (15 years ago).

It seems like you haven't grown up a bit the last 15 years. I other words, you are still a kid, or at least you think like one!

 

[The Quonquerer]

We don't hate you, we are not born haters..but Tanzania is indivisible! Kwani nyie ni astronauts kama Neil Young na Yuri Gagarin kwamba mnaishi angani, kuna watu wanaweza kuishi bila ardhi.? hata hao walirudi ardhini..u airborne dudes?

 

[Kabaridi]

Kenya was the hub of manufacturing industries servicing all East African Britsh colonial staffs. Also Nairobi was a main headquarter for colonial masters in this region. The pase you have made in manufacturing industries is colonial legacy from what British created in Kenya in relation to East Africa. Having economy relative well developed in manufacturing sector is not a product of your genious Kenyans rather that its a product of colonial legacy. I have been reading all your comments in this forum, and sometimes I was in point to believe on some point, but with this comment now I just question your level of understanding on where this region have been through. Every thing we have nowdays is a product of long history since colonialism. I have discredited your level of understanding about this region. If you still beleive that Kenyans were created by God to be genious more than other folks of East Africa you never get through your ambition. Other than I will be associating with those who still beleive that Whites are more Intelligent than blanks without considering the environment where these separate race live. Think about the reason why the first EAC collapsed, then come with your crap request on EAC federation. Nenda danganya those people live in infemous Kibera "mansions" they can believe in your sheet, beliefs

My friend, I might disagree with your above statement here a bit. I can agree with you more that Nairobi was a colonial Headquarters of British East Africa protectorate. But, British or colonial masters in pre-independent Kenya were mainly white settlers whose main economic activity was farming. Read more @ Economy of Kenya - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. And If they left behind a legacy, it was purely agricultural production and not an incentive for industrial and manufacturing. All manufacturing was started by Kenyan people.

"Every thing we have nowdays is a product of long history since colonialism".

Not really!! When DRC got it's independence from Belgium, King Leopold did not make Congolese inherit war and anarchy from him. Despite the riches, natural resources, and the size of the country, Poor leadership made that country suffer upto now. Second case in point recently. Zimbabwe was doing well economically. I am not a european who is writing this, I just want to show how Africans we are myopic, we blame colonialists and yet we have leaders heading leadership, and yet they are not being blamed for the woes a country is facing because of fear of tribalism. Zimbabwe is perfoming poorly. White people are out of Zimbabwe, but we still have beggars on the street. the youth are unemployed etc.etc.etc.etc.etc.etc.etc

The problem about land in Kenya is not about the haves or have nots, rich or poor. One should look at the problems or underlying factors like, a huge chunk of Kenya is semi arid and In 1993, Kenya's total arable land was estimated at 8 percent, Read more @: Kenya Agriculture, Information about Agriculture in Kenya Kenya Agriculture, Information about Agriculture in Kenya

Even if it was to be snatched from white-men or whoever, 8 % is still it is not enough for distribution to settle 40 million + and the ever-growing population. The second factor is the ethnicity factor.

Uganda have most of their land arable accounting for 21% for farming more even than kenya given the sizes of the countries. However in Kenya now, if, you have the money currently, you can purchase land wherever you want @ genuine places. The fact that there is rapid modernization/industrialization and growth of commercial centers lets say specifically for the Kenyan case in Africa, makes the need for owning land at this point not practical whatsoever. But if you liberalize a free market economy, with less or indirect government involvemnet makes trade easy for anyone

The caption below is from wikipedia White people in Kenya - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

read more to understand the socio-ecomics of this country

[h=2]
[/h]

 

[eliakeem]

I recently visited Moshi and Arusha. Those towns are exactly like they were when I last visited them as a kid (15 years ago).

Du nashangaa sana!!!!!!!!!!!
I will never argue with you again here in JF....... If 15 yrs ago ulikuwa mtoto...... kumbe tunajadili na watoto..... na ndiyo maana wanaishia kutukana tu...... kwa maana hawajui hata HISTORIA YA EAC...... wenyewe wanakurupuka tu.....
Tafadhali Mod...... mfungulie huyu mtoto na wenzake sub-forum ya watoto..... Huku kwenye Hardtalk watuachie sisi wazee wa siku....

 

[Tewe]

Ha ha ha ha!! @Nomasana...Tanzanians are living jokes literally!! I miss that Koba guy by the way....the only export Tanzanija can give the EAC in terms of human resources is Witch Doctors and house helps! i have never met any Tanzanian engineer,contractor..i mean any professional in any of the East African countries..working or on a business trip! but you will notice abundance of notice boards of witch doctors from pemba,dar,Zanzibar etc everywhere.....this is what they do best!! i wonder why we keep on tolerating them in EAC ..when all they can offer does not have any effect on the overall economic growth/development of EAC! They are useless not only to themselves but to us also!!the growth they experience is as a result of hard working Kenyans in Tanzania with other nationals esp S.A!..all we need from them is to change their attitude towards us and other EAC nationals or else we will continue hitting them hard, because this is the only language they can understand!!

Haha haha haha haaa! It is real painful 4u to miss apeace of land in tz, 4ur information we can satisfy ourself that is why u dont find us there. Poleni sana you will never drive us

 

[Askari Kanzu]

...The problem about land in Kenya is not about the haves or have nots, rich or poor. One should look at the problems or underlying factors like, a huge chunk of Kenya is semi arid and In 1993, Kenya's total arable land was estimated at 8 percent, Read more @: Kenya Agriculture, Information about Agriculture in Kenya Kenya Agriculture, Information about Agriculture in Kenya

Even if it was to be snatched from white-men or whoever, 8 % is still it is not enough for distribution to settle 40 million + and the ever-growing population. The second factor is the ethnicity factor...

Well, we all know history. The land issue is deeply entrenched in Kenya's colonial past.

Consider this, for example: "...the case in Kenya, where so many whites set up farms around Nairobi, that the area became known as the White Highlands. The tribe displaced, the Kikuyu, was forced to share 2,000 square miles of land between 1.25 million people, while 12,000 square miles went to a mere 30,000 whites..." (The Xenophile Historian)

Harrison Ikunda, writing in Business Daily as late as May 2011, notes: This is also a pointer to the government that land issues are still very sensitive in the country. Moreover, it shows that there are many landless and squatters in this country some of which was as a result of unfair land acquisitions in colonial times and in post independence Kenya. The massive land grabbing in post independence Kenya is part of the mess that haunts Kenya to date. (Business Daily)

 

[natu]

Tanzania is always full of drama whenever EAC matters are put on the table! ever afraid of progress and success!!...stop behaving like adolescent kids!!.....you are protecting land that you cannot even utilize!!....its time for you to pack and GO!! y are you afraid of leaving this EAC thing anyway! if you do not need it y stick to it!! you withdrew from COMESA in favour of SADC ..the result! South Africans are controlling your economy....everything you consume is south african!! i pity you.
Museveni once said that" its time for us (Kenya,Uganda,Rwanda and Burundi) to start planning without Tanzania" i now agree with him.

What were you waiting for:yawn: not to agree with Museven until now?

 

[Smatta]

We don't hate you, we are not born haters..but Tanzania is indivisible! Kwani nyie ni astronauts kama Neil Young na Yuri Gagarin kwamba mnaishi angani, kuna watu wanaweza kuishi bila ardhi.? hata hao walirudi ardhini..u airborne dudes?

Afadhali siku hizi tunajadiliana bila kurusha matusi, nakuelewa uliyoyasema, ardhi ni muhimu sana kwa maendeleo, jambo ambalo sikubaliani nalo ni yakuwa wewe na watz wengine wengi mnadhani kuwa lengo la wakenya katika jumuiya hii ni kuingia Tanzania na kuchukua mashamba. hapa mnakosea sana na mnarudisha maendeleo yanayotungoja nyuma, jumuiya hii ni zaidi ya ardhi ya Tanzania, tamaa ya wakenya, na nia ya museveni kuitawala EA, ni kwa ajili ya kupanua soko na kuwezesha East Afrika kuwa na nguvu na bargaining power against other stronger nations. Ungekuwa mfanyabiashara ama kama wewe ni mfanyabiashara nadhani unaelewa umuhimu wa jumuiya hii. tusipende kupinga kila kitu, mimi nasapoti kutolewa kwa kile kipengele cha ardhi, pesa na security, so sihitaji ardhi ya mtu. Na mimi siuzi vitunguu aise.

 

[The Quonquerer]

In that case, did anyone say no Trade? But again, do you know how Uganda is abusing Customs Union protocol by extending exemptions on industrial inputs for her manufacturers thus creating skewness of investments in the region..imagine almost the 7th year. Unajua Kenya inatoza Khs. 20 (TShs 400) kwa kilo ya agri products zinazotoka TZ wakati zake zinaingia bila ushuru..isn't this hooliganism we are inviting? Otherwise we can't trade with China and India and don't with neighbors. Ushirikiano wa maskini ni michosho, ndiyo maana wengine wanakimbia na michango ya arusi.

 

[Bantugbro]

... Na mimi siuzi vitunguu aise.

Ni biashara nzuri tu...:biggrin: