Referendum for Zanzibar Independence

HNIC · Jan 15, 2012

Lets not fool ourselves, this Union was never there in the first place, citizens from both countries were never consulted, no one knows the articles and memorandum of the Union, Mainlanders are fed up of subsidizing Zanzibaris and, Zanzibaris are fed up with the meddling from the mainland, Its a marriage that has reached reached its end and funny enough the young Zanzibaris and Mainlanders are fed up with politicians not being upfront with them on this matter, only few have dared to speak the unspeakable such as former Zanzibar President Hon, Aboud Jumbe (please refer to his book PARTNERSHIP) , Professor Haroub Otham, Professor Issa Shivji and one and only Tindu Lisu of CHADEMA as well as other prominent members of the society who have stated that Zanzibaris do not trust the current political establishments i.e CUF and CCM leadership (Maalim Seif and his CCM Cronies) to deliver the referendum for Independence I think there is always a way out of the Union...maybe free and fair referendum for zanzibar.

Afterall we were not United, the we became a Union, and now its not working for both of us. In addition we supported Biafra (under Nyerere) Southern Sudan, East Timor, Kosovo for self determination. Zanzibaris in the social media are talking about nothing but how they would free themselves from the shackles of the mainland.

Can we discuss this issue (referendum without patronizing mainlanders or Zanzibaris) in JF Style of (matured and Great thinkers manner)?

Game Theory · Jan 15, 2012

its all about OIL and GAS

Jasusi · Jan 15, 2012

Can you tell me of one single union in history where citizens were consulted before consumating the union? In history?

norbit · Jan 15, 2012

Jasusi said:
Can you tell me of one single union in history where citizens were consulted before consumating the union? In history?

European union

king11 · Jan 15, 2012

Lakini sisi wapemba pia tunataka kisiwa chetu hatutaki kutawaliwa na waunguja daima.....

Tunaomba katika referendum hiyo watuulize wapemba kama tunataka kubaki na waunguja

Barubaru · Jan 15, 2012

king11 said:
Lakini sisi wapemba pia tunataka kisiwa chetu hatutaki kutawaliwa na waunguja daima.....

Tunaomba katika referendum hiyo watuulize wapemba kama tunataka kubaki na waunguja

Na sisi watu wa mikoa ya kusini yaani mtwara na lindi na pwani bila kusahau visiwa vya Mafia tumechoka kutawaliwa na watu wa kaskazini na lake zote.

Tunaomba referendum hiyo watuulize kama tunataka tujiunge na Wakaskazi au tujiunge na msumbiji.

Ngongo · Jan 15, 2012

Na sisi watu wa kaskazini tuulizwe tumechoka kutengwa na kunyanyaswa na kuamuliwa na watu wa Pwani ha ha ha.

Mpambanaji K · Jan 15, 2012

Naomba yeyote anayejua mmungano ulioundwa ukadumu kwa kushirkisha watu. USA, RUSSIA, UK nk people were beatern to the union. People were never consulted in the creation of our countries by colonialists. People are only consulted to legitimise the union. The existence of the Union will not depend on "consulting people" but on legitmising it.

mpemba mbishi · Jan 15, 2012

king11 said:
lakini sisi wapemba pia tunataka kisiwa chetu hatutaki kutawaliwa na waunguja daima.....

Tunaomba katika referendum hiyo watuulize wapemba kama tunataka kubaki na waunguja

zanzibar daimaaaaa mbeleeeeee, nendeni mukamfukue baba yenu wa taifa aje awaambie ni wapi alikoipeleka tanganyika yenu!

Game Theory · Jan 15, 2012

HNIC said:
We supported Biafra (under Nyerere) Southern Sudan, East Timor, Kosovo for self determination

From Zanzibar owned forums the only thing they are talking about is how they would free themselves from the shackels of the mainland

It might not be the next 5 or 10 years but lets not fool ourselves, this Union was never there in the first place, citizens from both countries were never consulted, no one knows the articles and memorandum of the Union, Mainlanders are fed up of top up Zanzibaris Income Support, Zanzibaris are fed up with the medling from the mainland, Its a marriage that has reached reached its end and funny enough the young Zanzibaris and Mainlanders are fed up with politicians not being upfront with them on this matter, only few have dared to speak the unspeakable...former President Aboud Jumbe, Professor Haroub Otham, Professor Issa Shivji and one and only Tindu Lisu of CHADEMA

Young Zanzibaris do not trust the current CUF and CCM leadership (Maalim Seif and his CCM Cronies) to deliver them Independence I think there is always a way out of the Union...maybe free and fair referendum on the subject.

Can we discuss this issue (referendum without patronizing mainlanders or Zanzibaris) in JF Style of (matured and Great thinkers manner)?

- No-one can say definitely how the oil money would be divvied up, because it depends whether you draw the line into the territorial waters horizontally, diagonally, or with a gigantic spirograph machine;

- No-one can say how Union's national debt would be allocated, because there is no obviously right answer. Zanzibar could in principle argue that none of the national debt incurred by a profligate Magogoni administration should fall on a new political entity in the Isles. Conversely, if Zanzibar took its share of the national debt pro rata to population of the current TZ, that would cripple its economy at the outset;

- Know one knows how defence and foreign policy would be managed, we'd have to make it up as we go along.

It follows that there is no easy answer to the question of whether ZNZ or 'rump Mainland' would be better off after dissolution of the Union, so we may as well take a view based on our blind prejudices. My own blind prejudice is that in any financial negotiation with Multilateral lending agencies, any coming Tz President (during the Union breakup ) will get his bum kicked big-time.

Game Theory · Jan 15, 2012

Mpambanaji K said:
Naomba yeyote anayejua mmungano ulioundwa ukadumu kwa kushirkisha watu. USA, RUSSIA, UK nk people were beatern to the union. People were never consulted in the creation of our countries by colonialists. People are only consulted to legitimise the union. The existence of the Union will not depend on "consulting people" but on legitmising it.

So actually no one can cast an informed vote! If we really wanted to handle things democratically, wouldn't it be better to do the thorny negotiations BEFORE deciding whether to go ahead with it?

Game Theory · Jan 15, 2012

Tony Soprano said:
its all about OIL and GAS

This could be quite a distracting issue for the next 3 yrs though

myhem · Jan 15, 2012

hakika serikali ya muungano ikifanya kosa la kuwashirikisha watu wengi katika kuamua nini kifanyike juu ya muungano wetu basi hapo ndio utakuwa mwisho wake maana kuna wahafidhina kibao watafuta sababu ya kuuvunja.

Nonda · Jan 15, 2012

SlidingRoof said:
- No-one can say definitely how the oil money would be divvied up, because it depends whether you draw the line into the territorial waters horizontally, diagonally, or with a gigantic spirograph machine;

- No-one can say how Union's national debt would be allocated, because there is no obviously right answer. Zanzibar could in principle argue that none of the national debt incurred by a profligate Magogoni administration should fall on a new political entity in the Isles. Conversely, if Zanzibar took its share of the national debt pro rata to population of the current TZ, that would cripple its economy at the outset;

- Know one knows how defence and foreign policy would be managed, we'd have to make it up as we go along.

My own blind prejudice is that in any financial negotiation with Multilateral lending agencies, any coming Tz President (during the Union breakup ) will get his bum kicked big-time.

Bofya https://www.jamiiforums.com/jukwaa-...tta-nyerere-na-wa-tz-bara-18.html#post3071438

video ipo hapa https://www.jamiiforums.com/jukwaa-...itta-nyerere-na-wa-tz-bara-3.html#post3064584

Tunapiga kelele sana bila ya kuwa na taarifa za kutosha.
Tunaandika na kujadili muungano kutokana na hisia na mazoea lakini hatuna data.

Ni wazi kuwa Muungano huu umekaa kiutapeli tapeli.

Muundo wake haufahamiki, mipaka ya kimadaraka haifahamiki, member mmoja wa Muungano kapotea katika ramani ya dunia.
Kila kinachohusu Muungano ni nyeti na siri ya serikali. Mwananchi hana haki ya kuhoji wala kukosoa. anatakiwa ausifu tu.

Kama hii ripoti aliyoitaja Jussa itapatikana itakuwa mwanzo mzuri kuona kama anayosema hapa ni kweli. Kama ni kweli tutajua kuwa Muungano unaweza kujiendesha bila kuchangiwa, tutang'amua kuwa viongozi wetu ni wabadhirifu wa fedha za umma.

Mphamvu · Jan 15, 2012

Barubaru said:
Na sisi watu wa mikoa ya kusini yaani mtwara na lindi na pwani bila kusahau visiwa vya Mafia tumechoka kutawaliwa na watu wa kaskazini na lake zote.

Tunaomba referendum hiyo watuulize kama tunataka tujiunge na Wakaskazi au tujiunge na msumbiji.

na sisi wa Kaskazini tunataka referendum iulize endapo tunataka kuendelea kuwa pamoja ni kipande kilichobaki au tunataka kuungana na Mombasa Republican ili tuwe taifa moja na Pwani ya Kenya.
Twafazzalh!

Pharaoh · Jan 15, 2012

norbit said:
European union

European citizen never really wanted a union, but is a matter of very few big men, is an old project since 1930's to unite all europe, then the small ordinary people were brainwashed on that matter, wakaingia mkenge. nakubaliana na jasusi

Ta Muganyizi · Jan 15, 2012

Bahati mbaya madaraka sina. Tujaribu kuuvunjs japo kwa 1 year wazenj waone joto yake kisha tuurudishe.

Nyakageni · Jan 15, 2012

king11 said:
Lakini sisi wapemba pia tunataka kisiwa chetu hatutaki kutawaliwa na waunguja daima.....

Tunaomba katika referendum hiyo watuulize wapemba kama tunataka kubaki na waunguja

ya Nyerere yatatimia tu

Pharaoh · Jan 15, 2012

Lakini nyerere amekosea sana, asingeishia Zanzibar, angerudisha pia Rwanda na Burundi, mikoa ya Tanganyika iliyozawadiwa Ubelgiji na Wajerumani, pia angeingiza ndani Comoro and Diego Garcia military Island,

Nyakageni said:
ya Nyerere yatatimia tu

Taso · Jan 15, 2012

Ta Muganyizi said:
Tujaribu kuuvunjs japo kwa 1 year wazenj waone joto yake kisha tuurudishe.

Kwa hiyo nyinyi Tanganyika mko kwenye Muungano kuwasaidia Wazanzibar tu?

Referendum for Zanzibar Independence

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