Nduli Idd Amin Dada or an African Hero.

Here are the complex facts.

1. Amin was a gifted buffoon.
2. Nyerere supported Ugandan rebels before Amin harboured any ambitions to invade Tanzania.
3.Amin chased away Indians not because he was for indigenous Ugandans control of the economy, but because he wanted his cronies to get hold of the loot.
4. The OAU was shamefully toothless and hiding under the "territorial integrity" clauses to protect Amin.
5. Nyerere was right in chasing Amin out of Uganda.
6. Nyerere was wrong in turning a blind eye to the widespread looting by his soldiers in Uganda.
7.Nyerere was more irked by the threat of invasion and the fact that he was partly responsible for having Obote overthrown than anything else.
8. Amin was a mass murderer and Nyerere did a service to the world by getting rid of him.
9. A sizable portion of Ugandans still inexplicably love Amin.
10. Amin was an adventurous glutton for punishment.
 
..pamoja na Amini kuwafukuza wahindi kuna idadi kubwa zaidi ya wazawa wa Uganda ambao walikimbikia ukatili wa Iddi Amini.

..pia Wahindi waliofukuzwa, kwa mfano Madhvani family, wamerudi Uganda na ku-claim mali zao, na sasa hivi ni matajiri kuliko walivyokuwa miaka ya Amini.
 

Heshimakwako Jokakuu,

Hili nalo neno,ni kweli hawa wahindi wamerejea Uganda wamekuwa matajiri kuliko mwanzo lakini hili si kosa la Amin kwa hakika ni makosa ya watawala wa wakati huu [Mu7].
 

Dada, Tatizo lako ni udini. Hapa wamtetea dictator nduli Iddi Amini kwa vile tu alikuwa mwislamu mwenzako na chuki zake kwa Israel kama zilivyo kwa Waislamu wote duniani. Otherwise huwezi kuwa dictator na mwuuaji wa watu wasio na hatia halafu ukaitwa hero, labda kwa waislamu tu ambao kwao kuua ni kitu cha thamani kwa "mungu" wao.
 


Heshima kwako Joka Kuu,

Mkuu wangu historia ya vita ya Uganda inapotoshwa maksudi na vikundi vichache vya kidini kwa maslahi ya dini na kuondoa umuhimu wa Mwl Nyerere katika siasa za Tanzania.Vikundi hivyo mara nyingi wanaanzia kuzungumzia historia ya uhuru wa Tanzania kwa kusema Mwl Nyerere hakufanya lolote la maana kupigania uhuru wa Tanzania.Wakishamaliza hoja ya uhuru wanahamia kwenye hoja ya kumsifua Idd Amin kwakuwa wanaamini ni mwenzao !!!!!!!.

Wakati mwingine unaweza kushangaa sana ni kitu gani kinawasukuma kuikana historia ya Tanzania kupigania uhuru na vita vya Uganda.
Mungu ibariki Tanzania iondokane na watu wa aina hii.
 
Ngongo said:
Hili nalo neno,ni kweli hawa wahindi wamerejea Uganda wamekuwa matajiri kuliko mwanzo lakini hili si kosa la Amin kwa hakika ni makosa ya watawala wa wakati huu [Mu7]
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Ngongo,

..tatizo unaweza kukuta wale wazawa waliochipuka kibiashara wakati wa Amini sasa hivi wamefilisika.

..wenzetu wahindi wana-excel ktk biashara bila kujali nani yuko madarakani. hata Canada na UK walikokimbilia baada ya kufukuzwa na Amini wamefanikiwa kibiashara.

..pia uzingatie kwamba wenzetu hawa wana historia ndefu ya kufanya biashara ktk familia zao. i think that is an important factor to consider when we try to find out why they succeed in business.
 

....you need some medication!
 
Iddi Amin was a product of his own, we can say the African-style, being an army senior officer made him to use different and sofisticated methods to achieve brutal and primitive ends. He was confusion's masterpiece or architect of his own downfall.

Iddi Amin doesn't deserve to be called an African hero its absurd to hear someone call to his name.
 
Hii JAMII FORUMS imeingiliwa na watu wa ajabu ajabu Munawazungumzia ubaya wao na uzuri wao watu waliokwisha kufa jamani?Wakati wa utawala wa baba wa Taifa umeshapita na Wakati wa Nduli iddi Amini umeshapita jamani tuzungumzie Nchi yetu inavyoendeshwa na Mafisadi tusizungmze Mambo aliyokuwa ameyafanya Mwalimu Nyerere na Nduli iddi Amini zao zimeshapita jamani tuyache yaliyopita tugange yaliyopo sasa Nchi yetu imeoza kiuongozi. Njaa kila sehemu,umeme hakuna maji masafi hakuna Dawa Mahospitalini hakuna,Watoto shule wanakaa chini ya muembe,Ufisadi,Rushwa Ujambazi,wizi na kila aina ya Uchafu Nchi yetu inayo.Tunao Viongozi lakini wengi wao ni Viongozi majina tu tujiaandae kuwachaguwa Viongozi wenye sifa za uongozi Viongozi wanaopenda Nchi yao pamoja na wananchi wao sio kuwasema Viongozi walikwisha kufa jamani tuamkeni .
 

Mkuu Mzizimkavu una nitisha na reasoning yako hapa. Mwisho uta sema historia iachwe kufundishwa mashuleni kwani inaongelea matokeo yaliyo pita na watu ambao walisha kufa. Na pia kama Muislamu una weza usi wafundishe wanao na watu wanao kuzunguuka kuhusu mtume Muhamad kwa vile na yeye alisha kufa. Kuna msemo wa kiingereza usemao "Those who do not know their history are bound to repeat it". Na mkuu mambo mengi katika maisha ya binadamu yapo kwenye chronological order kwa maana kitu kilicho tokea nyuma kime changia kwa kiasi fulani hali ambayo ipo kwa sasa.
 
Maendeleo yoyote katika nchi yoyote ile ambayo imeendelea yameletwa kutokana na historia.
 
I agree with you Mwanafalsafa
Kilichomuangusha Idd Amin sio propoaganda za Nyerere...ni yeye mwenyewe na mambo aliyokuwa akifanya. Sasa mwandishi anataka kutufanya tuamini kuwa Idd Amini alikuwa mtu mwema...pengine ati kwasababu alikuwa anasali sala aina moja na anazosali yeye.
Siku zote kikulacho ki nguoni mwako...ukiona mtu anahamishia matatizo yake kwa mtu mwingine basi fahamu fika ni weak, asiyejiamini na asiye na agenda yoyote yenye ushawishi. Jamani kama tunataka kumaliza tatizo la aina yoyote tujifunze kulikabili kama individuals...hii ya kuwasukumizia marehemu kama kina Nyerere hainatusaidia kitu.
 

Mkuu MwanaFalsafa1 hata kama Mnazungumzia History ya mtu mujaribu kuzungumza kwa heshima sio kumkashifu mtu au Kiongozi kati yenu nyinyi wote mnaye mzungumzia Mwalimu nyerere makosa yake na Nduli iddi amini makosa yake mujiangalie je nyinyi wenyewe hamna Makosa yoyote yale? Mkuu MwanaFalsafa1 ukitaka kuzungumzia Aibu ya mwenzako jaribu kuiangalia aibu ya kwako kisha ndio uzungumzie Aibu ya mwenzako. Mnafunguwa Threat ya kuwakashifu Viongozi waliopita au walijkufa wakati nyinyi wenyewe wote mna makosa yenu tena Makubwa kuliko hao Viongozi mnaowataja kwenye hii Forums Acheni mambo ya kashfa za Viongozi Asanteni.
 
Idd Amin kama walivyokuwa marais wengi wa Africa alikuwa na plus and minus zake. Idd Amin alikuwa hajaenda shule ila ninaweza sema ni mmoja kati ya viongozi wazalendo na wenye mapenzi hasa kwa nchi yake. Nina hakika Tanzania ya sasa inahitaji kiongozi kama amini ukiondoa minus zake. Tatizo kubwa ni kwamba sisi tulikuwa na akili zatu wakati wa vita ya Uganda kuanzia chokochoko za mwaka 1972 baada ya Amin kupindua mwaka 1971 na full scale war of 1978 -79. Tulikuwa tukilishwa propaganda na nyimbo za kumponda kupitia RTD kama vile " Idd Amin Jasusi tena hilo joka kuu, limefanya uvamizi kuteka ardhi yetu, hatuna jambo jingine ni kulifunza adabu...". Ila kwa Uganda Amin is their hero. Angalia filamu yake hapa chini halafu uamue kuwa utamuweka kundi gani?


[video=google;4169600956573058582]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4169600956573058582#[/video]
 
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Kusema kwamba mtu ana makosa hakuna maana kwamba sisi hatuna makosa, na makosa yoyote nitakayofanya hayawezi kulinganishwa na makosa ya Nyerere na Amin kwa sababu wao walichukua dhamana ya kuongoza mamilioni ya watu, mimi sijachukua dhamana hiyo na most likely makosa yangu yatadhuru watu wachache walio karibu yangu, lakini makosa ya Amin yameua mamilioni ya watu, amakosa ya Nyerere yameumiza mamilioni ya watu.

Two wrongs do not make a right, the fact that to err is human does not remove errors that humans make.The fact that I err and Nyerere erred, does not remove Nyerere's errors.

Kama unataka kuangalia aibu yako kabla ya kuongea makosa ya mwingine hakuna atakayeweza ku criticise kitu, kama hakuna atakaye criticize mtu hakuna tutakachojifunza, kama hakuna tutakachojifunza tutazunguka katika umasikini na kudorora zaidi maisha yote.

Tunahitaji kuondokana na adabu za kipuuzi, tunahitaji kusema ukweli. Soma juu hapo motto ya JF .

"Where We Dare To Talk Openly" Do you understand what does that mean ? Do you understand why that i so central to the extent that the JF Administration chose that, and not "heshima mbele" as JF's motto ?
 

Kiongozi mwenye mapenzi na nchi yake angeua 500,000 ya raia wake, wengi wao wasio na hatia ?

Unajua Idi Amin aliua watu kutoka katika kila nyanja ya maisha ya watu wa Uganda? Kuanzia jeshini, makanisani mpaka vilema? Huyu ndiye kiongozi anayepend nchi yake huyu ?
 
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A tyrant can never be a hero. Idd Amin was a tyrant. Therefore Idd Amin was/ is not a hero.
 

Lete evidence ya watu aliyoua. Kuna watu vilevile wanasema Nyerere aliua watu wengi walikuwa wanampinga. Hizo propaganda za magharibi baada ya kuachana na Israel na kuanza ku-support arabs
 

Mkuu Mzizimkavu thread haikufunguliwa kumkashifu Iddi Amin. Muanzisha thread ali kusudia kumsafisha Iddi Amin kwa kujaribu kuonyesha mazuri yake. Sasa ita kuwa unafiki tu kuongelea mazuri yake wakati mabaya aliyo yafanya tuna yatambua. Shabaan Robert alishawahi kusemaga kuwa "Sifa n nyama ya mfu". Waafrika tuna kasumba mtu akisha kufa basi tuna muongelea mazuri tu. Hata mzizi akifa kwenye msiba tuna sikia alikua mume mzuri nawakati maovu aliyo kuwa akitenda yapo wazi. Sasa kama muanzisha mada kaileta hapa tumjadili huyu mtu kwa nini tuongelee mazuri tu? Historia haiangalii mazuri tu au mabaya tu bali ina angalia facts. Wengi hapa tume jaribu kuelezea ukweli bila kumtusi marehemu. kama kuna post iliyo mtukana marehemu makusudi bai ifutwe hiyo tu.
 
Hofstede said:
Lete evidence ya watu aliyoua. Kuna watu vilevile wanasema Nyerere aliua watu wengi walikuwa wanampinga. Hizo propaganda za magharibi baada ya kuachana na Israel na kuanza ku-support arabs
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Achana na Nyerere, kama Nyerere kaua anziha thread ya Nyerere kuua, fact kwamba Nyerere kaua - hata kama ni kweli- haiondoi ukweli mwingine kwamba Amin kaua.

Just to give you one example, katafute kitabu kinaitwa "Nampenda Idi Amin" kilichoandikwa kutokana na mauaji ya Askofu Janani Luwum

Hebu ona unyama alioufanya Amin hapa

Janani Luwum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Arrest and death

Archbishop Luwum was a leading voice in criticizing the excesses of the Idi Amin regime that assumed power in 1971. In 1977, Archbishop Luwum delivered a note of protest to dictator Idi Amin against the policies of arbitrary killings and unexplained disappearances. Shortly afterwards the archbishop and other leading churchmen were accused of treason.
On 16 February 1977, Luwum was arrested together with two cabinet ministers, Erinayo Wilson Oryema and Charles Oboth Ofumbi. The same day Idi Amin convened a rally in Kampala with the three accused present. A few other "suspects" were paraded forth to read out "confessions" implicating the three men. The archbishop was accused of being an agent of the exiled former president Milton Obote, and for planning to stage a coup. The next day, Radio Uganda announced that the three had been killed when the car transporting them to an interrogation center had collided with another vehicle. The accident, Radio Uganda reported, had occurred when the victims had tried to overpower the driver in an attempt to escape.[2] When Luwum's body was released to his relatives, it was riddled with bullets. Henry Kyemba, Minister of Health in Amin's government, later wrote in his book A State of Blood, that "The bodies were bullet-riddled. The archbishop had been shot through the mouth and at least three bullets in the chest. The ministers had been shot in a similar way but one only in the chest and not through the mouth. Oryema had a bullet wound through the leg."[3]
According to the later testimony of witnesses, the victims had been taken to an army barracks, where they were bullied, beaten and finally shot. Time magazine said "Some reports even had it that Amin himself had pulled the trigger, but Amin angrily denied the charge, and there were, of course, no firsthand witnesses".[4]
 
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