NATO presents its bill to Libya...

RussianRoulette said:

countries foot the bill for the war. The bill rises to $ 480 billion.[equivalent to 50 years of petrol]

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Hiyo data ya 50 years si ya kweli na aliyeiandika hivyo amefanya kwa dhumuni la sensitization.

1. Libya imekuwa ikipata about $90bn per year kutokana na mauzo ya mafuta.

2. Mathematically and from a fact that uchumi wa Libya unategemea entirely mafuta na gas. $480bn in 50 years ni sawa na $9.6 bn per year, hela amabayo hata bongo tukiwa siriaz kukusanya kodi tunaipata.

jmushi1 said:

Hii kali,niliwauliza washabiki kuwa kama wana uhakika pesa za walibya zitakuwa salama.Wako wapi?
Nani ana uhakika kama hiyo miaka mitano hizo pesa zitakuwa zinafanya nini kwenye uchumi huu?
Nani anajuwa kuwa wataruhusiwa kuwa stable kama ilivyokuwa pre Gaddafi?Wale wahuni kwenye video ya Gaddafi wata wa hunt waliya masiha yao yote kama haya ndo matokeo.
Na bado....

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WIZI MTUPU!!! Mkuu jamaa wameshatimiza lengo leo la kuweka kituo cha jeshi Africa na pia kuwaweka vibaraka wao madarakani. Kama sikosei pesa zote za Libya zilizokuwa katika bank accounts za nje ya nchi zilikuwa hazifiki $200 billion sasa wameshaenda kubambikwa deni la $480 Billion!!!!! Utamdai vipi mtu ikiwa hamkuwa na makubaliano naye ya awali? kwamba nitatumia pesa (sijui ni kiasi gani) halafu gharama kamili nitakuletea unilipe? hivi kule kwingine walikovamia pia walipeleka bakuli lao ili walipwe gharama zao walizoingia katika uvamizi ule!!!?

Nyambala said:

Hiyo data ya 50 years si ya kweli na aliyeiandika hivyo amefanya kwa dhumuni la sensitization.

1. Libya imekuwa ikipata about $90bn per year kutokana na mauzo ya mafuta.

2. Mathematically and from a fact that uchumi wa Libya unategemea entirely mafuta na gas. $480bn in 50 years ni sawa na $9.6 bn per year, hela amabayo hata bongo tukiwa siriaz kukusanya kodi tunaipata.

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Hawalipi yote kwa siku moja mkuu. Kwanza wanajenga nchi yao, alafu wanafanya devaluation (IBRD imesha sema noti ni chache sana) alafu wanarudisha banks na uchumi sawa sawa. Only then wanaanza kujenga nchi na kulipa deni pole pole huku interest zikizidi kupanda. Na hizo 50 year kama unavo sema ni estimate tu, kufatana na mpango mzima wa marekani na NATO kujenga base Lybia. Nimeweka source hapo chini sababu najua ni pro-Gadafi media ndio imeandika kwa hivo lazima tuwe makini. Asante kwa maelezo.

BAK said:

WIZI MTUPU!!! Mkuu jamaa wameshatimiza lengo leo la kuweka kituo cha jeshi Africa na pia kuwaweka vibaraka wao madarakani. Kama sikosei pesa zote za Libya zilizokuwa katika bank accounts za nje ya nchi zilikuwa hazifiki $200 billion sasa wameshaenda kubambikwa deni la $480 Billion!!!!! Utamdai vipi mtu ikiwa hamkuwa na makubaliano naye ya awali? kwamba nitatumia pesa (sijui ni kiasi gani) halafu gharama kamili nitakuletea unilipe? hivi kule kwingine walikovamia pia walipeleka bakuli lao ili walipwe gharama zao walizoingia katika uvamizi ule!!!?

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Yes, they do!

BAK said:

WIZI MTUPU!!! Mkuu jamaa wameshatimiza lengo leo la kuweka kituo cha jeshi Africa na pia kuwaweka vibaraka wao madarakani. Kama sikosei pesa zote za Libya zilizokuwa katika bank accounts za nje ya nchi zilikuwa hazifiki $200 billion sasa wameshaenda kubambikwa deni la $480 Billion!!!!! Utamdai vipi mtu ikiwa hamkuwa na makubaliano naye ya awali? kwamba nitatumia pesa (sijui ni kiasi gani) halafu gharama kamili nitakuletea unilipe? hivi kule kwingine walikovamia pia walipeleka bakuli lao ili walipwe gharama zao walizoingia katika uvamizi ule!!!?

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Mkuu BAK,

Wajinga ndo waliwao,na kama hakuna wajinga dunia ingekuwaje?

Waliambiwa hizo bilioni $170 zote zitakuwa unfrozen pindi Gaddafi akiuwawa.

Gaddafi kauwawa,na hadi sasa wamepewa hiyo bilioni moja tu!

Sasa badala ya kuwakopesha hao waasi pesa za kumwondoa Gaddafi,kwanini wasingewapa hizo pesa wanazodaie eti zilikuwa za Gaddafi binafsi ili ndo zitumike bila ya haja ya kuwa na madeni?

Again,wamewaambia kuwa zitatolewa kama kukishakuwa na stability,kwa maana rahisi kabisa ni kwamba hawatakaa wazipate.(naamini stability ni ndoto kwa Libya in the near future)

Na hata wakizipata,mahesabu yake yatakuwa ya kimizenguo tu.

Hao waasi ni wajinga sana,wao wanadhani kuwa NATO walipokaa kimya kuhusu wao kutumia Alkaeda ni wajinga.

Hiyo ndo sababu watakatoitumia kwa black mail na kuwageuka.

Kwa kifupi Libya anaye i own ni NATO.

Libya ni taifa la NATO na si la Walibya.

Kuna mahali Gaddafi alifanya kosa kuhusiana na fikra za young Libyans,na inawezekana ni kwenye kuwapatia elimu stahiki ya mwafrika.

Sasa kama yeye aliwaachia wakaona wataliano na wafaransa ni watu muhimu zaidi,then these are the consequences.

Same mistakes wanazofanya viongozi wetu,wanapotembeza bakuli na rais kiguu na njia kila kukicha,basi wananchi ni lazima wawaone hao wazungu wanaoombwa kuwa ni watu wa maana,na kama wakitaka kuwaondoa,wananchi watakubali kiurahisi kutokana na how viongozi acts.

Kwa kweli mi namlaumu Gadafi kwa kitu kimoja (well, ni vingi ila hiki ndio zaidi): Kwa nini haku-step down mapema? Maana angefanya hivo bado kulikua na possibility ya kujenga strong opposition na kuuliza maswali ya maana. Nchi hainge bomolewa (NATO and his own troops) na people wouldn't have been killed...
Najua aliogopa legal repression ila naamini kulikua namna ya kuendelea kuisaidia Lybia kwa njia mbali mbali.
Ona Egypt... wamemtoa Mubarak and put a totalitary army instead, that has no plan of organizing election, and that is still supporting the US, Israel and their imperialist methods. Huku maisha ya kawaida ya mmisri hayakubadilika hata kidogo. what's next now?

RussianRoulette said:

Kwa kweli mi namlaumu Gadafi kwa kitu kimoja (well, ni vingi ila hiki ndio zaidi): Kwa nini haku-step down mapema? Maana angefanya hivo bado kulikua na possibility ya kujenga strong opposition na kuuliza maswali ya maana. Nchi hainge bomolewa (NATO and his own troops) na people wouldn't have been killed...
Najua aliogopa legal repression ila naamini kulikua namna ya kuendelea kuisaidia Lybia kwa njia mbali mbali.
Ona Egypt... wamemtoa Mubarak and put a totalitary army instead, that has no plan of organizing election, and that is still supporting the US, Israel and their imperialist methods. Huku maisha ya kawaida ya mmisri hayakubadilika hata kidogo. what's next now?

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Kustep down angeweza dada RR,lakini hakika nakwambia kuwa masharti ya kustep down ambayo nina imani alipewa na hao rebeles wakishirikiana na NATO,hayakuwa mazuri kiasi cha mtu wa caliber yake kuyakubali.Si walimwambia solution ni kuondoka nchini?

Yeye bado alikuwa akiishi kwa fikra za kimapinduzi.

Kwa hakika vita ya kimapinduzi haikuisha pale utawala wa mfalme Idris ulipoanguka.The struggle continued but in different was and manners.

Nina uhakika ili kustep down,basi ni lazima wangemlazimisha ku give up everyhting na kufata masharti yao.

Ni lazima angekubali kuwa coward na kuwageuka wale waliokuwa wakimwamini.

Na kama angefanya hivyo pengine historia inge muhukumu kwa tofauti.

Nadhani alichukuwa uamuzi bora kwani historia ita mlinda.

Ukweli asingekuwa na ile revolutionary spirit,basi angeweza tu kwenda London na kutulia kula raha kama Musharaff.

Lakini doing that ni sawa na kula matapishi yako mwenye given the wa he believed and ruled Libya.Haya yanayotokea sasa hivi unadhani angefurahishwa kuona kuwa yeye ndie alikubaliana nao?

Theres is very thin line btn being a hero vs a corward.

jmushi1 said:

Nadhani alichukuwa uamuzi bora kwani historia ita mlinda.

Ukweli asingekuwa na ile revolutionary spirit,basi angeweza tu kwenda London na kutulia kula raha kama Musharaff.

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Mi nadhani alipenda kuilinda reputation yake zaidi kuliko nchi yake. Basi angahakikisha anaacha succession nzuri, ya watu na institutions zitakazo pinga the new capitalist regime. 20 000 foreign troops occupying a sovereign country and exclusive contracts to 'donors'? I think it is his fault, in one way or another kwa kweli.

RussianRoulette said:

Mi nadhani alipenda kuilinda reputation yake zaidi kuliko nchi yake. Basi angahakikisha anaacha succession nzuri, ya watu na institutions zitakazo pinga the new capitalist regime. 20 000 foreign troops occupying a sovereign country and exclusive contracts to 'donors'? I think it is his fault, in one way or another kwa kweli.

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Umeshawahi kujiuliza ni kwanini mwalimu Nyerere aliamuwa kung'atuka kabla ya kukubaliana na masharti ya nchi za magarabi hao hao NATO?

Nonda said:

Libya inaelekea utumwani, hii nchi sasa imeshakuwa miliki ya international bankers

* Says just $1.5 bln of $170 bln foreign assets unfrozen Hizi ndio zimeshaingia mifukoni mwa majambazi ya dunia. USA, UK, France

Libya's acute cash crisis is set to get worse and its banking system requires a complete overhaul that will be guided by the International Monetary Fund and World Bank,

A NEW BANKING MODEL

He said he hoped the influence of international organizations would help shape a new Libyan model of banking, and the groundwork had already been laid by IMF and World Bank over the previous 2-3 years. ( duuh, mapinduzi ya IMF halafu kuna watu wanasema walibya walimchoka Gaddafi btw hii model ya zamani ilifanya wonders kwa nchi ya Libya..sasa wataingia madeni na soon watajikuta bankrupted by Inter. bankers)

"The IMF and WB have a roadmap and I would like to go ahead with the facelift. We need a strong central bank," he said.

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The Money Masters [Full Documentary] - YouTube

Itachukua miaka kwa wao kurudi kwenye mstari. Ila kwa kuwa wameamua wenyewe, hawatajutia!

International human rights organisations have urged the new leadership in the National Transitional Council to ensure order and respect for civil rights, citing evidence of abuses. In one case, dozens of bodies, some with their hands bound, were found shot dead in a compound where pro-Gaddafi forces had been based.

"They stole our furniture, burnt our house and took our car," said Umm Khaled, as she sat in a tent that she shares with dozens of her family in the desert.

"What else remains in Libya? Why don't they just kill us and relieve us. They burnt the country and killed our leader.

"Let them finish it."

Gaddafi kin seethe, in test for new Libya | News by Country | Reuters

Watanyonya mafuta na kujinyakulia ma tenda ya ujenzi hadi waiache Libya na Walibya wakavu. Usifikirie kuwa waliwasaidia NTC bila ya mipango ya muda mrefu wa kujinufaisha mabara yote ya Ulaya. Huu ndiyo mwanzo na mwisho wa Libya huru. Kwani zaidi ya kujinyakulia rasilimali pia waepata vibaraka wa kuwatumia ajili ya kuendelea kulivamia bara la Africa. TUJIFUNZE ILI YASIJE YAKATOKEA KWETU

Haya "wadhungu" wanavuna shamba lao.

Tuna fished 'illegally' during Libya conflict

Zaidi hapa BBC News - Tuna fished 'illegally' during Libya conflict