Inconvenience of Truth!!!

[Kabaridi]

If at all there is anyone that needs to calm down it is the original poster famous for the verbose statements that are painful to read and add nothing to the conversation. It is a clear sign of obsession. Let us engage constructively and not simply spew what most call BS.

When one is starting a thread a day or is better known for the long winded untruths they peddle in, it is clear who needs to reasses the direction the direction they are heading.

I expected as always you not to put some "meat on the bone" regarding Raila's integrity and suitability 4 the presidency. Should everyone now believe and assume that he is the only suitable candidate. One description that is a direct expression of his character is a recalcitrance, witnessed in various periods in his career in politics within and without our borders, and the crowning of such a description is during an AU meeting where he over-ran protocal to call a press conference. It is these simple acts that begs explanation whether whatever he does is motivated by self-interests or a desire to serve the people he is seeking to "liberate".

livefire
We agree that Pple make mistakes but remember potential leaders must have to sometime perservere the backlash especially if it seeks to evaluate one's character. A leader has to lead by example and if the character of a leader is wanting, then he ceases to be a leader because he lacks the values that befit a leader.

Mekatilili
R U pleased that whatever you are referring to as BS is being judgemental without taking time to decipher the interpretation of the excerpt.

Mkuu, I can understand your claims of having to endure pain while reading my points, but PS pardon Kabaridi's excerpt presentation and discussion techniques that lack the theraputic value characteristic of debates embed with intellectual effervescence lol. As platonist says I have to keep up with the pack. I can get better with time.

 

[livefire]

livefire
We agree that Pple make mistakes but remember potential leaders must have to sometime perservere the backlash especially if it seeks to evaluate one's character. A leader has to lead by example and if the character of a leader is wanting, then he ceases to be a leader because he lacks the values that befit a leader.

Kudos mkuu, not only have you a definition to integrity, but also follow it up closely by examining characters/values of a qualitative leader. You know your stuff man. I LOVE THIS.... Hey, is it really you? Good to have u back, now can we implement it wholly.lol. #pun intended.

Mkuu, I can understand your claims of having to endure pain while reading my points, but PS pardon Kabaridi's excerpt presentation and discussion techniques that lack the theraputic value characteristic of debates embed with intellectual effervescence lol. As platonist says I have to keep up with the pack. I can get better with time.

hahaha...ati therapeutic value?!?... nice one. Keep up with the pack.

 

[Kabaridi]

Kudos mkuu, not only have you a definition to integrity, but also follow it up closely by examining characters/values of a qualitative leader. You know your stuff man. I LOVE THIS.... Hey, is it really you? Good to have u back, now can we implement it wholly.lol. #pun intended.

Ndugu this is a tough race that requires one's focus till the end and PEACE is now the only valuable gemstone that will see the country forward. And the current whiped up "cries of fear" of violence eruption is a new phenomenon, though it is not an assuring vehicle of success with there being an increase in the number of presidential candidates (over 10). The peace pact btn Uhuruto means that RV is no longer a violence hotspot while @MBSA Mwamnaudzi has become a peace envoy and though not expressed in certainty we will see what will transpire when your man loses.

 

[kshaka]

At best i think they were far fetched.

So, a guy (supposedly a Kenyan) comes up with a narrative that the "Luo Muslim tribe" of Kenya are radicals who intend to impose shariah on Kenyans and the PEV was part of that push led by Odinga, supported by Obama...and it's unreasonable for the rest of us to call it BS, lies and tribal slander because, at best, it's just far fetched? In fact, what you find curious is the fact that the rest of us oppose this so vociferously? dude, WTF?

A guy is ascribing criminal intentions to a community and you're saying that you don't see ukabila or hatemongering here? If you can't see it here, then the thing does not exist anywhere! See, the way I see it...even if you support UHURUTO, as a Kenyan who supposedly loves the country, this kind of thing should be beyond the pale but obviously, we have different ideas of what reasonable political debate is!

 

[livefire]

kshaka....i get the vibe, cool down man, place is on fire joh!. U have all the right to fume up but give it a second thought.
Kabaridi...its not worth it man; this is the reason we never go into politics; it brings the ugly face to shore. Its not about winning or losing no more buh keeping the cohesive brand we share no matter the varied political affiliations. For one i care less who wins.
Dhuks, give it a breather or else we disintergrate into a "nipate" style of madness. Def you are familiar with the gist.
Hey, those are only ma thoughts, ultimate choice is yours bloggers.

 

[Kabaridi]

Apart from the healthy commotion that is within this thread, let us still not lose our nerves.

 

[Kabaridi]

OK gentlemen let me add a small twist to the whole debate...

It is equally "fatal" to have an ICC indicted candidate leading the country. The implications are depracating in the sense that the international business community might opt to head to kampala or Arusha or Addis ababa to set base for investments. Since Rwanda is "fighting" with DRC, the aforementioned capitals will be the destination of choice for them. Nairobi will lose its strategic preference by the diplomatic community to the other capitals in the region.

Economically, Arusha and kampalas numbers are half that of NBI, but their HIPC eligibilty means their debt relief will be retained. In this case their self-reliance economically is further weakened.

Is this the economic model that future kenya should be anchored upon? Can kampala take the mantle as regional economic powerhouse B4 the IMF completes funding for Kampalas oil refinery? Is it possible for Arusha to be able to become a regional powerhouse without accomodating gay policies attached to the current loan offers?

someone show me how they work out to settle this HIPC maneno. As far as Rwanda concerned, they will in the near future loose aid disbursement in millions of dollars for what they are allegedly doing in DRC, yet since the beggining they have "cooperated" fully with the policies of the international community.

 

[Kabaridi]

kshaka....i get the vibe, cool down man, place is on fire joh!. U have all the right to fume up but give it a second thought.
Kabaridi...its not worth it man; this is the reason we never go into politics; it brings the ugly face to shore. Its not about winning or losing no more buh keeping the cohesive brand we share no matter the varied political affiliations. For one i care less who wins.
Dhuks, give it a breather or else we disintergrate into a "nipate" style of madness. Def you are familiar with the gist.
Hey, those are only ma thoughts, ultimate choice is yours bloggers.

Mkuu nice pacification, I am envious..

 

[Kabaridi]

we have different ideas of what reasonable political debate is!

Mkuu I do not hink it is possible for two opposing ideas to settle and agree, but for now jump off from that slander maneno bcause the slot for the debate has changed.

 

[Ab-Titchaz]

OK gentlemen let me add a small twist to the whole debate...

It is equally "fatal" to have an ICC indicted candidate leading the country. The implications are depracating in the sense that the international business community might opt to head to kampala or Arusha or Addis ababa to set base for investments. Since Rwanda is "fighting" with DRC, the aforementioned capitals will be the destination of choice for them. Nairobi will lose its strategic preference by the diplomatic community to the other capitals in the region.

Economically, Arusha and kampalas numbers are half that of NBI, but their HIPC eligibilty means their debt relief will be retained. In this case their self-reliance economically is further weakened.

Is this the economic model that future kenya should be anchored upon? Can kampala take the mantle as regional economic powerhouse B4 the IMF completes funding for Kampalas oil refinery? Can Arusha decide to become a regional powerhouse b4 they accomodate gay policies attached to the current loan offers?

someone show me how they work out to settle this HIPC maneno. As far as Rwanda concerned, they will in the near future loose aid disbursement in millions of dollars for what they are allegedly doing in DRC, yet since the beggining they have "cooperated" fully with the policies of the international community.

Mkuu,

What has this got to do with the banter you raised about one Raila Odinga at the top of this thread?

...unless you wanna 'kill' the all the Presidential candidates and prop your own?

..Owesmake....:smiling:

 

[Kabaridi]

Mkuu,

What has this got to do with the banter you raised about one Raila Odinga at the top of this thread?

...unless you wanna 'kill' the all the Presidential candidates and prop your own?

..Owesmake....:smiling:

I do not like see fellow Kenyans argitated (@Kskaka) especially if what is discussed is slanderous, it is better to substitute it. Where have you been until now? In the real sense I do not want to be labelled as one with hatred. So I have decided to do so. Mkuu, the issue however I have raised in this thread is also critically important.

For instance, If Right honourable Raila Amolo Odinga were to be president of this Kenya, what could be the outcome. If for instance he decides to take a leftist approach compared to that of Kibaki (of not giving into the whole demands of the international community) what can change?

In short what can we gain by aggreeing into the demands of the economic community. One critcally important advantage I know of is extreme muscle in terms of economic growth.

 

[Ab-Titchaz]

I do not like see fellow Kenyans argitated (@Kskaka) especially if what is discussed is slanderous, it is better to substitute it. Where have you been until now? In the real sense I do not want to be labelled as one with hatred. So I have decided to do so. Mkuu, the issue however I have raised in this thread is also critically important.

For instance, If Right honourable Raila Amolo Odinga were to be president of this Kenya, what could be the outcome. If for instance he decides to take a leftist approach compared to that of Kibaki (of not giving into the whole demands of the international community) what can change?

In short what can we gain by aggreeing into the demands of the economic community. One critcally important advantage I know of is extreme muscle in terms of economic growth.

Kabaridi,

Za leo mkuu mwenzangu?

I have been watching this thread right from the 1st post and I must say your fellow wananchi have
engaged you appropriately. I need add nothing further maana the discourse is rambling at a pace of
its own.

One thing I must say though, ni kwamba I was wondering why you are sticking to this old accusation
that has refused to stick ever since the Masters started spinning it? Acha ilale mazee.

In answering your question... "If Right honourable Raila Amolo Odinga were to be president of this Kenya,
what could be the outcome"...LIFE WOULD GO ON! No need to get people all worked up and scared about
a Raila Presidency. That is something we have seen also for too long a time ever since the old Kenyatta was
President and virtually scared the country against all things Luo. There is something cold the new constitution
that I believe has to be given the necessary teeth to curtail the excesses of an over reaching Executive.

Swadaktaa.

 

[Dhuks]

So, a guy (supposedly a Kenyan) comes up with a narrative that the "Luo Muslim tribe" of Kenya are radicals who intend to impose shariah on Kenyans and the PEV was part of that push led by Odinga, supported by Obama...and it's unreasonable for the rest of us to call it BS, lies and tribal slander because, at best, it's just far fetched? In fact, what you find curious is the fact that the rest of us oppose this so vociferously? dude, WTF?

A guy is ascribing criminal intentions to a community and you're saying that you don't see ukabila or hatemongering here? If you can't see it here, then the thing does not exist anywhere! See, the way I see it...even if you support UHURUTO, as a Kenyan who supposedly loves the country, this kind of thing should be beyond the pale but obviously, we have different ideas of what reasonable political debate is!

I dont get worked up when somebody spins propaganda, you jumped the gun and saw tribalism where there was none. Btw a Luo supporting Raila is not tribalism, a Kalenjin supporting Ruto is not tribalism we have just been bombarded by all manner of criticism from our neighbours to a point where we have failed to notice that the world over all the politics is regional.
Why do we get 100% sure that a republican candidate will not be elected in a certain state even before the first ballot is cast? If you believe its ideological differences then its time to look at it again.

 

[livefire]

OK gentlemen let me add a small twist to the whole debate...

It is equally "fatal" to have an ICC indicted candidate leading the country. The implications are depracating in the sense that the international business community might opt to head to kampala or Arusha or Addis ababa to set base for investments. Since Rwanda is "fighting" with DRC, the aforementioned capitals will be the destination of choice for them. Nairobi will lose its strategic preference by the diplomatic community to the other capitals in the region.

Economically, Arusha and kampalas numbers are half that of NBI, but their HIPC eligibilty means their debt relief will be retained. In this case their self-reliance economically is further weakened.

Is this the economic model that future kenya should be anchored upon? Can kampala take the mantle as regional economic powerhouse B4 the IMF completes funding for Kampalas oil refinery? Is it possible for Arusha to be able to become a regional powerhouse without accomodating gay policies attached to the current loan offers?

someone show me how they work out to settle this HIPC maneno. As far as Rwanda concerned, they will in the near future loose aid disbursement in millions of dollars for what they are allegedly doing in DRC, yet since the beggining they have "cooperated" fully with the policies of the international community.

This piece of literature caught my eye, mayb it can give u a pointer or two. Not my script but it can serve the purpose for now.

The 4th Kenyan President is sworn in. The sky
is filled with fireworks. One month later,
Kenya is no longer a member of the ICC. ... The president says that Kenya is a sovereign state
and will not be cowed. 5 months later, tea prices plummet, tourism is non-existent, KQ lays off more staff due its shrinking customer
base. Horticulture sells come to a stand still.
Fuel is at an all time high. The president makes high voltage trips to Sudan and Iran to try and foster stronger partnerships. The
future of the Lamu project is unknown.
Partners are looking for alternatives. Western countries withdraw all aid. The president says that Kenyans are resilient. Unemployment hits 80% and crime soars. We sit and wonder, did we need this man in state house so much that we were were willing to give up our livelihoods, the future of our children and the
dignity of our country! Suddenly I wake up, and realize it was just a nightmare. We are still in 2012 and there is still hope this time
around the stakes are high for those who have not registered. please no excuse your vote your future.

 

[kshaka]

I dont get worked up when somebody spins propaganda, you jumped the gun and saw tribalism where there was none. Btw a Luo supporting Raila is not tribalism, a Kalenjin supporting Ruto is not tribalism we have just been bombarded by all manner of criticism from our neighbours to a point where we have failed to notice that the world over all the politics is regional.
Why do we get 100% sure that a republican candidate will not be elected in a certain state even before the first ballot is cast? If you believe its ideological differences then its time to look at it again.

You haven't addressed anything I've written there and I have to say AGAIN, I haven't accused anyone of tribalism on the basis of who they are supporting (or not supporting, as the case may be). This is the 3rd/4th time I'm clarifying this for you...are you actually reading what I'm saying or just making up arguments on my behalf and then trying to refute them?

I don't know how you define tribalism but to me, when someone ascribes negative intentions and traits to an entire community especially when they are based on lies (oh sorry, "far fetched" stories) that is the very definition of the thing..what does tribalism mean to you?

 

[Kabaridi]

This piece of literature caught my eye, mayb it can give u a pointer or two. Not my script but it can serve the purpose for now.

You ndugu, come here, I believe you have the necessary shock-absorbers to withstand some heavy heavy truths fired at you. Are we naive to that scale, who tells you that a Raila presidency is the only one that can "cure" the country. Claiming to have the cure for ethnicity, while his supporters are the most tribal people I know of. What cure does he have? Purge "unnecessary" tribes or call for mediation to expel tribes. The only thing that I know of his campaigns is a vague aspirant that is only interested in calculating to get power. That is the keyword. The hunger for POWER is making his head spin faster than ever before. Nothing of substance in his campaigns other than the sub-conscious continuous rolling of Uhuruto slandering. The only visible thing is that he is on the back-foot and does not have the confidence of winning the forth coming general election, that is why there are current calls for unrest to try and cripple the electoral process. He is only remaining with equivocal statements as his trump card.

I have always said again and again let your preferred candidate come out clean and sell his "winning-formula" to the people not poisoning populations, because he can never win using this strategy, it has been used before it has failed, right??, Ask him about the "short-term" revolutionary agenda's like free-education, infrastructure, Security!! the guy is clueless |pun|...KQ is laying off workers. Kenya railways is also laying of workers, yet there is no outcry?

Will the "world" or "universe" stop just because raila has lost the elections (let the polls decide)? The PMs office is a Unit of quiet impunity, while treasury is currently being lambasted for all the current "woes" in the PM's office, it remains a den of hidden graft (KKV).... Let him enjoy all the niceties courtesy of the tax payer-kitty, sponsor unnecessary trips abroad but his overall achievements will be required at the end.

There are so many outlets or producers of oil, Sudan is one of them, Venezuela, Angola, Nigeria,...and I still do not get how Kenya remains with Sudan to purchase crude oil. Lappsset is happening within Kenyan borders, I still do not see how it can stall if he loses the election, mkuu I need you to elaborate.

 

[kshaka]

^^^BTW, it's nice for you that you don't get worked up by this kind of talk but have you asked yourself why some of us do get worked up?

I don't know where you were during 2007/2008 PEV but I was in kenya for part of it...this is exactly how it started. I started receiving the chain emails (I still have some of them) a few months before and there were several blogs and forums peddling in this kind of talk...eti wakikuyu wako hivi..wamefanya vile..wanataka kutufanya hivi etc etc (they were not talking about individuals but wakikuyu, same as Kabaridi's OP). to our eternal shame, most of us kept quiet cos we thought ni ile propaganda ya kawaida tu, itaisha after uchaguzi na tutaendelea kama kawaida....well, we all saw what it resulted in. Now you're saying we should take it easy when we see the exact same thing happening again...I dont know how true this is but there are already reports of leaflets being passed around in RV, damn right we should get worked up! Most Kenyans are not safely ensconced in foreign countries and they are the ones who'll bear the brunt of this careless politicking.

 

[Dhuks]

You haven't addressed anything I've written there and I have to say AGAIN, I haven't accused anyone of tribalism on the basis of who they are supporting (or not supporting, as the case may be). This is the 3rd/4th time I'm clarifying this for you...are you actually reading what I'm saying or just making up arguments on my behalf and then trying to refute them?

I don't know how you define tribalism but to me, when someone ascribes negative intentions and traits to an entire community especially when they are based on lies (oh sorry, "far fetched" stories) that is the very definition of the thing..what does tribalism mean to you?

In bold is what i define tribalism to be, but you talked of tribal slander in your post. Can you not separate bs,propaganda and hate speech without necessarily labeling it tribalism?

 

[kshaka]

In bold is what i define tribalism to be, but you talked of tribal slander in your post. Can you not separate bs,propaganda and hate speech without necessarily labeling it tribalism?

so BS, propaganda and hate speech aimed at an entire community does not qualify as tribalism? When someone posts videos alleging that Luos have a certain negative intention towards other Kenyans, leave alone that they now have become radical Muslims in this narrative, this does not constitute tribal slander in your book?

 

[Kabaridi]

Misleading equivocal statements from ODM campaign brigade,

*The kalenjins and the Kikuyus are the only people that are tribal in kenya. Why because they have not sang the ODM song.

* We have more than one alliance formed by various parties to boost thier presidential bids, but only uhuruto alliance is build on the foundation of tribalism, other alliances are have the nationalist outlook.