How America Can Lose Her Empire Gracefully

Keynez

JF-Expert Member
Feb 12, 2007
2,408
3,891
Now, this is an old article but I've had it on my computer since it was first published. I just wanted to share it with you all, especially as Obama is prepared to make a decision on Afghanistan next week.

My questions are, will America fight to the end to hold on to her dominance on the world or will they learn from Britain and disengage quietly? If they do the later, how long do you think it will take them to make such a decision? What kind of event, economic, financial, political, military or otherwise that will tilt the balance of power in favor of America, and thus prolong the status-quo?

Moderator, you can move this thread if it is in the wrong section.

.............................................

How To Lose An Empire--Gracefully


Paul Maidment, 09.24.08, 06:00 PM EDT


The British Empire did not collapse, nor was it overthrown. It simply ran down. The U.S. could learn a lot from its cousins across the pond.

Post-colonial Britain projects soft power. It no longer meets the classic definition of a superpower, a nation with the will and ability independently to project its political, military and economic power around the world.

But it retains influence beyond its size, partly because of its alliance with the U.S. and partly because in a world of globalization, micro-nationalism and non-state powers, where the nation-state, let alone empire, is an increasing anomaly, power is no longer the ability to subject but to exert the soft suzerainty of commercial, cultural and moral ideas.

The ending of World War II left hard global power in the hands of the U.S. and the Soviet Union. The old European colonial powers, of which Britain was pre-eminent, were broken or defeated. The new superpowers were firmly of a mind not to let them rebuild their empires, especially as they had their own emerging ones of surrogates and proxies to consolidate.

An exhausted and impoverished Britain had failing desire and less means to project what little imperial power it still had. At the same time, popular sentiment in the country matched a growing tide of anti-colonial movements around the world. There was, as British Prime Minister Sir Harold MacMillan would put it, "a wind of change blowing."

His predecessor, Sir Anthony Eden, was, in the words of TheTimes (London), "the last prime minister to believe Britain was a great power, and the first to confront a crisis that proved she was not." Once the last thrash of empire--the Suez Crisis of 1956--was behind it, Britain decided to withdraw as peacefully as possible from its empire, and to redefine its world role as the bridge between the U.S. and the rest of the world--an "honest broker" in Macmillan's words.

In place of empire, Britain left a commonwealth of nations: a loose-knit group of countries that share a broadly similar view of parliamentary democracy; police, military and judicial systems based on English common law; and a widespread use of English--all of which arguably have helped many of its former colonies to make their way in the modern world better than former French, Dutch, Portuguese, German, Italian or Russian possessions.

The period of decolonization that followed World War II was the final stage in a half-century unwinding of what had been the largest empire in history. The empire on which the sun famously never set had been 300 years in the making, reaching its zenith at the start of the 20th century, when a political map of the world was awash in British imperial red.

Britannia then governed nearly 500 million people, then one-quarter of the world's population, controlled the same proportion of the globe's land mass and ruled most of waves between. Today Britain's colonial possessions are reduced to a few specs of rock: Bermuda and five island territories in the Caribbean, five in the South Atlantic, one apiece in the South Pacific and Indian oceans, Gibraltar and the British Antarctic Territory.

It was not an empire whose power waxed and then waned in one sweeping historical arc, like the Roman or Aztec empires. It did not collapse, nor was it overthrown so much as it ran down, particularly after World War II.

Even before then, the British empire was no monolith, and imperial administrators showed surprising flexibility. Some North American colonies were lost in the late 1700s, and within a century the remainder, save for Newfoundland, had become semiautonomous dominions (self-governing, including trade and foreign policy where it didn't conflict with British interests, with their own parliaments but retaining the British crown as head of state). The colonies in Australia, New Zealand, South Africa and Newfoundland had followed suit by 1910.

India, the jewel in the imperial crown, became a dominion in 1947 and a republic in 1950. Ireland was a dominion between 1922 and 1937; it, too, became an independent republic, in 1949. As both these cases remind, decolonization didn't always come without struggle, often violent. Mutiny, revolt and rebellion are part of the imperial lot.

Paul Kennedy, a Yale professor of history, put forward in his 1988 book The Rise and Fall of the Great Powers the notion that a great power's economic rise and fall in relation to its rivals was as important to its longevity as its military supremacy. Finance, commerce and the popular arts have extended Britain's sway long beyond its time.

For the U.S., declining economic growth and rising military commitments won't necessarily signal the decline of Pax America unless others become disproportionately richer and stronger. That is why the rise of China and the resurgence of Russia are such threats to American power. And while it is difficult to imagine the U.S. accepting a diminishing status gracefully, it will have to find a destiny in that seam where finance and commerce meet politics and strategy. Post-imperial Britain shows a possible path.

It will require a greater mastery of soft power than the U.S. has hitherto exhibited. Britain's colonial rulers were also deft, like the Romans, Ottomans and Mongols before them, at co-opting their most talented and useful subjects into their imperial systems, and with it went a certain degree of toleration, adaptation and accommodation to the lands they ruled. It was an effective deployment of soft power, which meant the bayonets only came out in extremis.

The U.S., in contrast, has global reach and a global military footprint without having the permanent colonies to provide a mechanism for such co-option. Rough persuasion can impose its economic and military power. But it will need to find gentler ways to exert its ideological and cultural influence.



SOURCE http://www.forbes.com/2008/09/24/co...power08-cx_pm_0924maidment.html?feed=rss_news
 
Very insightful this quote....

Britannia then governed nearly 500 million people, then one-quarter of the world's population, controlled the same proportion of the globe's land mass and ruled most of waves between. Today Britain's colonial possessions are reduced to a few specs of rock: Bermuda and five island territories in the Caribbean, five in the South Atlantic, one apiece in the South Pacific and Indian oceans, Gibraltar and the British Antarctic Territory.
 
I don't think the British empire simply ended gracefully. I'm sure they did all they can to save the empire but in the end they had no choice but to just let go.If Britain could have maintained their empire they would have done anything to save it. You either do it the easy way or the hard way but either way you have no choice but to let it go.
 
I don't think the British empire simply ended gracefully. I'm sure they did all they can to save the empire but in the end they had no choice but to just let go.If Britain could have maintained their empire they would have done anything to save it. You either do it the easy way or the hard way but either way you have no choice but to let it go.


I believe by "gracefully" they mean in a dignified way, without a revolution in britain, without economic catastrophy, without Britain losing it's position as a major figure in world politics etc.
 
I believe by "gracefully" they mean in a dignified way, without a revolution in britain, without economic catastrophy, without Britain losing it's position as a major figure in world politics etc.

I get you mkuu but Britain's empire lied oversees which means it couldn't have been overthrown by a revolution within. We can look at the different countries which demanded and fought for independence from Britain as the individual revolutions that took place. But other than that everything you said makes sense.
 
I get you mkuu but Britain's empire lied oversees which means it couldn't have been overthrown by a revolution within. We can look at the different countries which demanded and fought for independence from Britain as the individual revolutions that took place. But other than that everything you said makes sense.

Ndiyo maana kuna maneno mawili yaliyo almost oxymoronic, "lose gracefully".

Yaani, the exercise could have been much worse, let's say for example, British Empire ingeisha mpaka na monarchy yake huko UK, lakini mpaka leo monarchy inaendelea, Britain bado ina influence kwenye ma security council huko etc.

Naona kama muandishi anaona kuanguka kwa Marekani ni inevitable, which is debatable at this point.
 
I can't see America going British way though, the possibility that mwandishi also raised, even though he didn't explain what was behind his thought. I look it this way, what kind of influence, in popular art or commerce can America project when they finally decide to back down? When it comes to popular art, it's mostly Hip Hop culture that is popular abroad. America as an authoritarian force will find it very difficult to embrace Hip Hop because in essence Hip Hop was, and it still is to a great extent, an antidote to American policies, domestic and foreign. That is where the challenge is going to be.

When it comes to commerce, it has already been concluded as a proven fact that America will never go back to be a manufacturing force in the world. Few in America will continue to do good, and as a result we are going to see more class-conflict in their society as we have witnessed earlier this year.

Bruray and Mwanafalsafa, I'm not rulling out the revolution within America, even though at this point it seems to be very unlikely. Remember, you would have been laughed at in 2004 if you told people Obama would be President in 4 years. Politicians, authors and fanatics in America have called for one. There is a great divide within the United States, with both sides beating the drums, calling for a revolution, only for different reasons. At the end of the day, they will face the elephant in the room, and that to me will be the great culture conflict (with race, religion, social views, economic policies, history all lump together).
 
Nilikuwa nimeboreka nikajikuta nachungulia nyuzi zangu za zamani.

Bado naipenda sana hii article. Nadhani bado iko relevant sana tu.
 
Ongeeni lugha ya kueleweka. Mnatuacha wengi kizani. Kwana nahisi mmenitukana.
 
Ongeeni lugha ya kueleweka. Mnatuacha wengi kizani. Kwana nahisi mmenitukana.

Iandike tena kwa kuiandika kiswahili,maana nimeskip


Majadiliano ya zamani hayo, hao wakuu waliokuwa wanachangia sijui hata kama bado wapo JF. Nikiicheki ni mada muhimu sana hasa kwa wale wapenzi wa siasa za dunia. Jitahidi, utaelewa tu. Unaweza ipachika kwenye google translate ingawa itakuwa tafsiri mbovu.
 
Nilikuwa nimeboreka nikajikuta nachungulia nyuzi zangu za zamani.

Bado naipenda sana hii article. Nadhani bado iko relevant sana tu.

It is an interesting read. Personally, I believe that if you compare the quality of life during the various era of the British Empire, you will find out that the British didn't lose anything when they decided to relinquish their colonies. As a matter of fact, the quality of life of an average Brit is much better today than at the zenith of the Empire. For example, in 1975, only 10% went to university. Today the number is more than 40%.

Now with respect to America, I don't regard it as an empire. Rather, it is a competitive advantage which was brought in by internal political structure and a vast single economic market. It is true that America is a very powerful country in terms of its military capability. But this military is supported by a large pool of tax payers in that single in economic market. Without them, America wouldn't be able to dominate the world they way they do today. So, personally, I believe if another country, let's say China or India is able to a develop vast single economic market, it will be able to unseat America from its perch.

Also I believe that the decline of American influence doesn't necessary depend on what steps do Americans take. To a large extent it depends on the social-economic of other nations. For example, if Chine continues to be in the same economic trajectory for the next 20 years, then the American influence in the world will wane precipitately.
 
Now, this is an old article but I've had it on my computer since it was first published. I just wanted to share it with you all, especially as Obama is prepared to make a decision on Afghanistan next week.

My questions are, will America fight to the end to hold on to her dominance on the world or will they learn from Britain and disengage quietly? If they do the later, how long do you think it will take them to make such a decision? What kind of event, economic, financial, political, military or otherwise that will tilt the balance of power in favor of America, and thus prolong the status-quo?

Moderator, you can move this thread if it is in the wrong section.

.............................................

How To Lose An Empire--Gracefully


Paul Maidment, 09.24.08, 06:00 PM EDT


The British Empire did not collapse, nor was it overthrown. It simply ran down. The U.S. could learn a lot from its cousins across the pond.

Post-colonial Britain projects soft power. It no longer meets the classic definition of a superpower, a nation with the will and ability independently to project its political, military and economic power around the world.

But it retains influence beyond its size, partly because of its alliance with the U.S. and partly because in a world of globalization, micro-nationalism and non-state powers, where the nation-state, let alone empire, is an increasing anomaly, power is no longer the ability to subject but to exert the soft suzerainty of commercial, cultural and moral ideas.

The ending of World War II left hard global power in the hands of the U.S. and the Soviet Union. The old European colonial powers, of which Britain was pre-eminent, were broken or defeated. The new superpowers were firmly of a mind not to let them rebuild their empires, especially as they had their own emerging ones of surrogates and proxies to consolidate.

An exhausted and impoverished Britain had failing desire and less means to project what little imperial power it still had. At the same time, popular sentiment in the country matched a growing tide of anti-colonial movements around the world. There was, as British Prime Minister Sir Harold MacMillan would put it, "a wind of change blowing."

His predecessor, Sir Anthony Eden, was, in the words of TheTimes (London), "the last prime minister to believe Britain was a great power, and the first to confront a crisis that proved she was not." Once the last thrash of empire--the Suez Crisis of 1956--was behind it, Britain decided to withdraw as peacefully as possible from its empire, and to redefine its world role as the bridge between the U.S. and the rest of the world--an "honest broker" in Macmillan's words.

In place of empire, Britain left a commonwealth of nations: a loose-knit group of countries that share a broadly similar view of parliamentary democracy; police, military and judicial systems based on English common law; and a widespread use of English--all of which arguably have helped many of its former colonies to make their way in the modern world better than former French, Dutch, Portuguese, German, Italian or Russian possessions.

The period of decolonization that followed World War II was the final stage in a half-century unwinding of what had been the largest empire in history. The empire on which the sun famously never set had been 300 years in the making, reaching its zenith at the start of the 20th century, when a political map of the world was awash in British imperial red.

Britannia then governed nearly 500 million people, then one-quarter of the world's population, controlled the same proportion of the globe's land mass and ruled most of waves between. Today Britain's colonial possessions are reduced to a few specs of rock: Bermuda and five island territories in the Caribbean, five in the South Atlantic, one apiece in the South Pacific and Indian oceans, Gibraltar and the British Antarctic Territory.

It was not an empire whose power waxed and then waned in one sweeping historical arc, like the Roman or Aztec empires. It did not collapse, nor was it overthrown so much as it ran down, particularly after World War II.

Even before then, the British empire was no monolith, and imperial administrators showed surprising flexibility. Some North American colonies were lost in the late 1700s, and within a century the remainder, save for Newfoundland, had become semiautonomous dominions (self-governing, including trade and foreign policy where it didn't conflict with British interests, with their own parliaments but retaining the British crown as head of state). The colonies in Australia, New Zealand, South Africa and Newfoundland had followed suit by 1910.

India, the jewel in the imperial crown, became a dominion in 1947 and a republic in 1950. Ireland was a dominion between 1922 and 1937; it, too, became an independent republic, in 1949. As both these cases remind, decolonization didn't always come without struggle, often violent. Mutiny, revolt and rebellion are part of the imperial lot.

Paul Kennedy, a Yale professor of history, put forward in his 1988 book The Rise and Fall of the Great Powers the notion that a great power's economic rise and fall in relation to its rivals was as important to its longevity as its military supremacy. Finance, commerce and the popular arts have extended Britain's sway long beyond its time.

For the U.S., declining economic growth and rising military commitments won't necessarily signal the decline of Pax America unless others become disproportionately richer and stronger. That is why the rise of China and the resurgence of Russia are such threats to American power. And while it is difficult to imagine the U.S. accepting a diminishing status gracefully, it will have to find a destiny in that seam where finance and commerce meet politics and strategy. Post-imperial Britain shows a possible path.

It will require a greater mastery of soft power than the U.S. has hitherto exhibited. Britain's colonial rulers were also deft, like the Romans, Ottomans and Mongols before them, at co-opting their most talented and useful subjects into their imperial systems, and with it went a certain degree of toleration, adaptation and accommodation to the lands they ruled. It was an effective deployment of soft power, which meant the bayonets only came out in extremis.

The U.S., in contrast, has global reach and a global military footprint without having the permanent colonies to provide a mechanism for such co-option. Rough persuasion can impose its economic and military power. But it will need to find gentler ways to exert its ideological and cultural influence.



SOURCE http://www.forbes.com/2008/09/24/co...power08-cx_pm_0924maidment.html?feed=rss_news
China inakuja mbio sana tena kwa kasi kubwa sana, soon ataweza kui-overtake Marekani.
Wakati ni Mwalimu mzuri sana katika hili.
 
Kwanini mkuu ni kwa lengo la kujua tu
1.Wanazidi kuwa kinyume na utandawazi"globalization" na multiculturalism.

2.Wanazidi kujifungamanisha na Urusi na kuhusudu siasa za watawala madikteta.

3. Wengi wanazidi kujikita katika conspiracies mbalimbali na kukosa imani na kila jambo la serikali yao kama kiongozi sio Republican.

4. Wanazidi kuvunja ukuta uliotenganisha dini na serikali na kutaka kuifanya dini ya Kikristo iwe kipaumbele katika kuongoza sera za nchi.

5.Wanatanguliza na kujali zaidi maslahi ya chama chao kuliko yale ya kitaifa.
 
China inakuja mbio sana tena kwa kasi kubwa sana, soon ataweza kui-overtake Marekani.
Wakati ni Mwalimu mzuri sana katika hili.
China bado sana kui-overtake Marekani, miaka kadhaa ijayo inaweza kuwa na uchumi mkubwa kuliko Marekani lakini bado itakuwa imeachwa mbali sana katika GDP per capita, jeshi na ushawishi kidunia kiuchumi, kijeshi na utamaduni.
 
1.Wanazidi kuwa kinyume na utandawazi"globalization" na multiculturalism.

2.Wanazidi kujifungamanisha na Urusi na kuhusudu siasa za watawala madikteta.

3. Wengi wanazidi kujikita katika conspiracies mbalimbali na kukosa imani na kila jambo la serikali yao kama kiongozi sio Republican.

4. Wanazidi kuvunja ukuta uliotenganisha dini na serikali na kutaka kuifanya dini ya Kikristo iwe kipaumbele katika kuongoza sera za nchi.

5.Wanatanguliza na kujali zaidi maslahi ya chama chao kuliko yale ya kitaifa.
Republicans Wana chembechembe za Udikteta na ubaguzi wa rangi, kama ulivyo utawala wa Urusi.
 
Republicans ndio wataiangusha America empire
Hizi sababu tu ila ukweli ni mmoja kwa miwili mpaka mitatu
Wakwanza ambao ndio mkubwa hakuna marefu yasiokua na mwisho ulidhania milelel us itakaa kiranja hili halipo
Pili us watu washamchoka anajifanya mjanja na baba wa dunia analolitaka lowe asolitaka lisiwe watu wamemchoka wanaona bora aende
Tatu na mwisho us alijifanya mjanja watu wamemtia kwenye mgogoro wa ukraine likaingia kichwa kichwa kumbe ndio linazama hvyo
Acheni kuwalaumu wa republican hao sababu tu
Maana kwa nguvu aliopo nayo us sio rahisi aangushwe na watu kutoka nje kwahio acheni kulalama wa us wa afrika mashariki
 
1.Wanazidi kuwa kinyume na utandawazi"globalization" na multiculturalism.

2.Wanazidi kujifungamanisha na Urusi na kuhusudu siasa za watawala madikteta.

3. Wengi wanazidi kujikita katika conspiracies mbalimbali na kukosa imani na kila jambo la serikali yao kama kiongozi sio Republican.

4. Wanazidi kuvunja ukuta uliotenganisha dini na serikali na kutaka kuifanya dini ya Kikristo iwe kipaumbele katika kuongoza sera za nchi.

5.Wanatanguliza na kujali zaidi maslahi ya chama chao kuliko yale ya kitaifa.
PUT IN alisema haiwezekani dunia kuishi bila Russia nahuu ndio ukweli ila hamukumuelewa
Kwani kabla ya vita ya Ukraine marais wote waliopita baada ya vita baridi hawakua vyema na Russia
Hata huyo Biden anajifanya nje yuko hovyo na Russia ila ndani huko wananunua mazaga kibao toka Russia
 
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