Yehova witness kutimuliwa kwa kukataza wanafunzi kuimba wimbo wa taifa!

[nguvumali]

jamaa wanamisimamo sana , yaani acha tu, ndo maaana Julius Nyerere aliwafukuza miaka ya 1970.

 

[nguvumali]

Very interesting, natamani niwe lawyer wao..

Tumain hukosi vijimambo

 

[Utingo]

Kiranga,
Hapana. Hakuna cha Draconian hapa. Hata Biblia inasema mpe Kaisari kilicho chake. Kama hawa wazungu wanataka watu wasiimbe wimbo wa taifa waanzie kwao. Sio kuwadanganya watoto wetu. Hawa mawitness nakumbuka miaka ya 60 walifukuzwa Tanzania na Malawi kwa uhalifu huo huo.

Jehova Wits is a deadly group of Cults, kila wanapokwenda they normally tend to confront na kupindua culture na kuwafanya watu kuabudu fikra za mwanzilishi wao. Kumbukeni kuwa mwanzilishi wao alisema/tabiri kuwa mwisho wa dunia ungekuwa 1915, 1917, 1945 na 1975. Ni watu hatari kwani they tend kuwafanya watu wasimwabudu Mungu na kutii mamlaka na kuyapenda mazingira yanayowanguka isipokuwa waaabudu wao na wayapende mazingira ya nchi wanakotoka.

 

[Kiranga]

Jehova Wits is a deadly group of Cults, kila wanapokwenda they normally tend to confront na kupindua culture na kuwafanya watu kuabudu fikra za mwanzilishi wao. Kumbukeni kuwa mwanzilishi wao alisema/tabiri kuwa mwisho wa dunia ungekuwa 1915, 1917, 1945 na 1975. Ni watu hatari kwani they tend kuwafanya watu wasimwabudu Mungu na kutii mamlaka na kuyapenda mazingira yanayowanguka isipokuwa waaabudu wao na wayapende mazingira ya nchi wanakotoka.

When you really think about it dini zote ni cults tu.

Stick to the subject, ni sawa kulazimishana kuimba nyimbo za taifa na ujinga ujinga mwingine kama huo? Vipi wakiweka maneno usiyoamini katika wimbo wa taifa?

 

[Utingo]

Mungu hayupo, napinga huu upuuzi unaoletwa kwa jina la mungu, kuanzia wimbo wa taifa.

Hao ninaowatetea ni Watanzania na wapo kwao Tanzania, au hujui kwamba kuna Mashahidi wa Jehovah Tanzania?

Exposure, exposure tatizo kubwa

kiranga acha ku-uphold kitu usichokijua eti kwa sababu tu unaweza kuongea kiingereza. arguments zako ni za kipuuzi kabisa. Na si ajabu wewe ni ustadhi au mzee wa kanisa. Unajifanya kutomtambua Mungu.

Soma thread kwanza uelewe kuwa hao watu ni wapuuzi sana kwa sababu ikiwa kosa ni kuimba wimbo wa taifa-na ambako ndani yake kuna kumtaja Mungu. Hayo majumba ya kifalme (makanisa-misikiti) waliyoyaeneza nchini ni kwa ajili ya kumwomba Mungu au kiranga? imani yao si ya mungu huyo huyo anayetamkwa katika wimbo wa taifa. Do you think kujipretend kuwa humjui Mungu it makes you brave. In this contemporary world ambayo hata wakomunist wanakubali uwepo wa Mungu. kumsikia mtz anadai hamjui Mungu it is the highest level of hypocrisy and ignorance. Hizo ni pretence zilizopitwa na wakati katika karne ya 19. Hata kingunge huenda kusali kwa mzee wa upako.

 

[Utingo]

Vipi wakiweka maneno usiyoamini katika wimbo wa taifa?

Ni maneno yapi katika wimbo wa taifa....?

 

[Magezi]

Tena naomba rais Kikwete angepiga marufuku vijikanisa kama hivi......mbona hayo maneno hawayasemi nchini kwao wanakuja kuyaropoka Tanzania?

 

[Magezi]

jamaa wanamisimamo sana , yaani acha tu, ndo maaana Julius Nyerere aliwafukuza miaka ya 1970.

Wanastahili kufukuzwa nchini haraka sana hata Eritrea raisi wa nchi hiyo alipiga marufuku kanisa hilo.

 

[Magezi]

Mungu hayupo, napinga huu upuuzi unaoletwa kwa jina la mungu, kuanzia wimbo wa taifa.

Hao ninaowatetea ni Watanzania na wapo kwao Tanzania, au hujui kwamba kuna Mashahidi wa Jehovah Tanzania?

Exposure, exposure tatizo kubwa

Wewe ni mjinga na nadhani umepata muda wa kupoteza kwa hoja unazo zitoa hapa. Hawa watu wafukuzwe nchini mara moja.

 

[Bigirita]

And how exactly do you know if this national anthem is referring to GOD or some other god? I believe this is a valid reasons for the Witnesses, the god being referred in this secular anthem may not be their god, so why pray to him?

Kwani nani kasema wimbo wa taifa ni sala?

consider this:
vijana wanakuzwa kuwa wananchi bora enye kujua haki zao na kuzitekeleza.......kati ya vijana walioko shule moja ya sekondari, wanatoka madaktari, waalimu, waandishi, wahandisi, wanajeshi, mapolisi.kwa maana hiyo, kwa kuwa jeshini lazima kuimba wimbo wa taifa sana tu na hata kwenye events, vijana hawa wasiende kuifuta ndoto yao ya kuwa wanajeshi na polisi coz ni lazima kuimba wimbo wa taifa?

wimbo wa taifa ni simbo of belonging! I am from here, and proud of it.

A man is expected to be able to reason and think, learned or not learned. sasa kama kwenda kwako shule kunakufanya u-reason na ku-think in a way that another human being atataka ku-question your reasoning....ujue kuna tatizo.

 

[Mshirazi]

Kosa lilifanyika pale tulipoutangazia ulimwengu kwamba Kambarage amefariki....maana huyo ndio waliekua wanamuogopa,,,enzi zake asingekuja Shahidi wala wakili kutuletea UPUUZI huu

 

[Bigirita]

Hiyo shule wameijenga wao? wamejenga shule ngapi kuwasaidia vijana wetu kupata elimu? wamesaidia miradi mingapi ya maendeleo kama maji, afya, elimu, barabara nk katika jamii walizokwenda kujenga makanisa yao?

Mandela aliachana na mke wake (sio winnie, kabla ya winnie alikuwa ana mke aliyekuwa anaitwa Evelyn) kwa sababu alikuwa anamshangaa kwa nini anabotha kutafuta uhuru wakati uhuru upo kwa Jehovah na watch tower. hatimae akaamua kuondoka na kumwacha mandela.......these people would turn one into a dumb-ass......kufikiri 0 kabisa.

 

[Kiranga]

kiranga acha ku-uphold kitu usichokijua eti kwa sababu tu unaweza kuongea kiingereza. arguments zako ni za kipuuzi kabisa. Na si ajabu wewe ni ustadhi au mzee wa kanisa. Unajifanya kutomtambua Mungu.

Soma thread kwanza uelewe kuwa hao watu ni wapuuzi sana kwa sababu ikiwa kosa ni kuimba wimbo wa taifa-na ambako ndani yake kuna kumtaja Mungu. Hayo majumba ya kifalme (makanisa-misikiti) waliyoyaeneza nchini ni kwa ajili ya kumwomba Mungu au kiranga? imani yao si ya mungu huyo huyo anayetamkwa katika wimbo wa taifa. Do you think kujipretend kuwa humjui Mungu it makes you brave. In this contemporary world ambayo hata wakomunist wanakubali uwepo wa Mungu. kumsikia mtz anadai hamjui Mungu it is the highest level of hypocrisy and ignorance. Hizo ni pretence zilizopitwa na wakati katika karne ya 19. Hata kingunge huenda kusali kwa mzee wa upako.

Unajuaje kama mungu wa wimbo wa taifa ndiye mungu wao? Mungu wao kashawaambia yeye ana wivu, sasa wewe unataka kuwalazimisha waabudu mungu mwingine wapatilizwe wao na vitukuu vyao?

Kuamini mungu ni naivette tu.

 

[NGULI]

Kuna jamaa hapa ana-swagga kama za Bluray.

Ndio yeye. Hakuna mtu mwenye hio dictionary anayoitumia hapa JF. Pia hakuna mtu mwenye imani yake hapa JF. I like his thinking and arguement in all things but not in his belief.

 

[Kiranga]

Hiyo shule wameijenga wao? wamejenga shule ngapi kuwasaidia vijana wetu kupata elimu? wamesaidia miradi mingapi ya maendeleo kama maji, afya, elimu, barabara nk katika jamii walizokwenda kujenga makanisa yao?

Mandela aliachana na mke wake (sio winnie, kabla ya winnie alikuwa ana mke aliyekuwa anaitwa Evelyn) kwa sababu alikuwa anamshangaa kwa nini anabotha kutafuta uhuru wakati uhuru upo kwa Jehovah na watch tower. hatimae akaamua kuondoka na kumwacha mandela.......these people would turn one into a dumb-ass......kufikiri 0 kabisa.

You are totally missing the point.Katika a free society watu wanaruhusiwa kufanya wanachotaka, hata kama kiko dumb, ilmuradi hakidhuru mtu.

Ndio maana ninasema wanaotaka kuabudu maji sawa, jua sawa, mti sawa.

This is not about whether the Jehovah Witness faith is flawless or not, as far as I am concerned all religions are fraudulent.

This is about freedom of worship, kila mtu awe na uhuru wa kusujudia anachotaka na kukataa kusujudia asichotaka.

 

[Mapinduzi]

Unajuaje kama mungu wa wimbo wa taifa ndiye mungu wao? Mungu wao kashawaambia yeye ana wivu, sasa wewe unataka kuwalazimisha waabudu mungu mwingine wapatilizwe wao na vitukuu vyao?

Kuamini mungu ni naivette tu.

Hiyo signature yako 'there is no god, and Kiranga is his prophet' inaonyesha how confused, and confusing you are.

How can you be a prophet of something that does not subsist? Only if you do not subsist.

Na kwa kuandika 'his prophet' una maanisha kwamba yupo, and has got he persona.

 

[Kiranga]

Hiyo signature yako 'there is no god, and Kiranga is his prophet' inaonyesha how confused, and confusing you are.

How can you be a prophet of something that does not subsist? Only if you do not subsist.

Na kwa kuandika 'his prophet' una maanisha kwamba yupo, and has got he persona.

Of course, of course.

You are using common sense while I am using uncommon common sense, how can you comprehend.

I am the prophet of a godless world.

 

[Mapinduzi]

Of course, of course.

You are using common sense while I am using uncommon common sense, how can you comprehend.

I am the prophet of a godless world.

Your uncommon common sense does not make sense at all...there is no god...and you are his prophet! Pardon.

 

[Dani]

Uthibitisho wa Kihistoria unaonyesha kuwa Wakristo wa karne ya kwanza hawakujihusisha katika mambo ya kisiasa. Katika Yohana 17:16 Yesu anaongea kuwahusu, "wao [wafuasi wa Yesu] si sehemu ya ulimwengu, kama vile mimi nisivyo sehemu ya ulimwengu." Badala ya kuamini katika kujitoa kwa serikali yeyote kwa moyo wote, waliamini kuwa kuna serikali ya kimbingu – yaani Ufalme wa Mungu ambao unastahili ujitoaji wa raia wake. Wanahistoria wengi wanakubaliana kuwa Wakristo wa karne ya kwanza waliheshimu na kupendelea Ufalme wa Mungu kuliko ufalme wowote ule wa kidunia". Itikadi zao zina msingi katika kauli ya Yesu mwenyewe ambaye katika Yohana 6:15, alikataa kufanywa mfalme, na katika Yohana 18:36 alisema kuwa "Ufalme wangu sio wa ulimwengu huu. Kama ufalme wangu ungekuwa wa ulimwengu huu, watumishi wangu wangenipigania, nisije nikatiwa mikononi mwa Wayahudi. Lakini ufalme wangu sio wa hapa."

Baadhi ya text books vinaeleza ifuatavyo:
"Early Christianity was little understood and was regarded with little favor by those who ruled the pagan world.. Christians refused to share certain duties of Roman citizens. . . . They would not hold political office."-On the Road to Civilization, A World History (1937), by Albert K. Heckel and James G. Sigman, pages 237, 238.
"The Roman government called the Christians enemies of the state. They would not serve in the Roman army. They refused to salute the emperor's statue, which meant the same to Roman society that a nation's flag does to citizens today. They were loyal only to their religion."-Man-His World and Cultures (1974), by Edith McCall, Evalyn Rapparlie and Jack Spatafora, pages 67, 68."

Kwa misingi hii, Mashahidi wa Yehova, wanakataa ulimwenguni kote kusalute bendera za taifa lolote na kuimba nyimbo za taifa – ziwe zinamtaja Mungu, au la. Hilo si jambo jipya! Wamekuwa wakifanya hivyo ulimwenguni pote tangu hata miaka ya 1930's, na kuna kesi nyingi zimeendeshwa katika nchi nyingi – karibu kesi zote Mashahidi wa Yehova wamezishinda, kwa sababau serikali zilizohusika zilitambua kuwa zingekiuka haki za msingi za kiraia.

 

[Dani]

Ndugu serikali inahaki ya kusimamia sheria zake inavyotakikana. Hakuna uhuru usio na mipaka kama ndivyo basi kusingekua na rule of order wala governance. To every right there is a responsibility.

Sasa basi sheria ya nchi inasemaje kuhusu ibaada/imani. without direct quotation; kila mtu ana uhuru wa kuabudu nakuamini chochote ili mradi kwa kufanya hivyo havunji sheria za nchi.

Kusema ni sheria pekee siyo sababu! Je? Kama kusalute "Heil Hitler" huko Nazi Germany ni wajibu wa kila Mjerumani, ungemsalute huyo dictator ambaye alisababisha vifo vya watu milioni sita? Sheria/katiba haziko perfect. Kila katiba ina mipaka. Ni kazi ya wanasheria kudefine mipaka hiyo kwa kutumia sababu zinazoongozwa na logic na morality.

Hiyo ndiyo sababu miswada ya sheria inayosukumwa na shinikizo la wanasiasa tawala, wa upinzani pamoja na asasi zisizo za serikali inafanyika mara kwa mara. Serikali zimekuwa zikiingilia haki za msingi za binadamu. Kuna serikali, kama za China, North Korea, Eritrea, Ethiopia... na mengineo mengi, ambazo kikatiba kabisa haziguarantee uhuru wa maoni, na serikali nyingi zinajaribu kuunda sheria zao kijanja-janja ili ziwazuie kikatiba wapinzani kueleza maoni yao. Mbona sheria za Apartheid zilimzuia mtu mweusi kusoma shule moja na mweupe? Zote hizo zilikuwa sheria - katiba! Shinikizo la kimataifa ndiyo ilisababisha South Africa kutumia logic na morality.

By the way, pamoja na Hitler kuifanya "Heil Hitler" kuwa salaam ya kitaifa ambayo ni lazima itumike na kila Mjerumani, sababu iliyoongoza kwa Mashahidi wa Yehova kufungwa enzi za Nazi ilikuwa "kukataa kusalute bendera ya Ujerumani pamoja na kutoa 'Nazi salute'". Mashahidi wa Yehova hawakukataa kwa sababu ya kudharau serikali (wanaongoza kwa kuwa walipa-kodi waaminifu nchi nyingi sana duniani), bali kwa sababu dhamiri zao za Kikristo hazikuwaruhusu.